This Bowe thing...
 

Lets face it, there is something badly wrong when a skills position player is not in camp working with a brand new QB. Somewhere these athletes are getting some bad bad advice that can and could impact their entire career.

I figure we wasted the pick at this point. No way will he even come close to adding much value to this tream this season. He has a major screup going on cause had he showed up...and if hes any good...and if croyle is half waht we hope....we would have seen some passing this season.

Now we have LJ who is a head case, old WR's or Young ones who cannot catch...The Defence would have to hold opponants to 3 pts agame for us to have a prayer.

So, we're doomed, right?

So HonestChieffan, you honestly believe our offense will only score 3 points a game?

This mess edge braught to yoo bye the love chyld of Kcnut adn Nelly Olsen.

He really should have hired an agent to help him pick an agent.

9 - 12, anymore than that and Herm feels it is a waste. He is not a big fan of running up the score on his opponent. ROFL...

Kidding of course.

I think it's good... the longer he sits out, the longer Kennison gets to say he's the team's best receiver.

:#

Exactly

No...I'd hope we do better than that. I used that as an example probably in an emotional outburst not expecting to have some yinyang take it literally.

Just trying to help you live up to your handle. ;)

I think his handle is a misnomer.

Shouldn't your name be something more like, reactionaryChieffan?

Yes. Well no. Shit I dunno.

What I posted may be reactionery. But it was posted honestly. I meann damn, what should I do now?

Easiest question ever.

STFU

antifreeze!!!!!!!!!!!!!




I know I'm a rookie but at least I'm not a noob!

His agent probably isn't doing him any favors but every bit as much is on Peterson. With a couple recent rare exceptions like Tamba last year Peterson is usually one of the last GM's able to get his 1st rounders into camp. Obviously his negotiation style and people skills leave a lot left to be desired.

It is hard to put too much on the agent when the same thing happens nearly every year regardless as to who the agent might be.

hmm...I thought Sims was the only holdout in several years...

That's right. At least LJ, DJ, and Hali were all in on time.

I know Tamba was in on time and I pretty sure you are correct about DJ. I don't remember if LJ was or not. Time rips by when you start to get old. But regardless I would be quite certain that Peterson would rank very near the bottom of the NFL based on the average time it takes to sign first round picks.

Went back and looked it up and actually I was wrong...LJ was done well before camp and DJ was actually done a little late after camp had started.

So I think only LJ and Tamba were signed before camp kicked off in recent history.

It's ultimately Bowe's loss.

It's not a one way street....The Chiefs spent a high pick on him and if getting behind hurts his career it is ultimately a loss for team and player.

The difference between getting high production guys like Tamba and Derrick Johnson versus turds like Ryan Sims and Junior Siavii's adds up quick.

If what I read on here is true it is all on Locke. He refuses to even discuss it until Quinn signs.

I agree that it only helps the player and the team to get a player in camp on time, but if the player is really good it doesn't matter. DT missed all of camp was signed days before his first game, Gonzalez, was signed late in camp. If Bowe is good he'll be good without camp, He'll be be better this year with more camp, that is true, but it won't hurt him long term. Sims would have been bad even if he had signed early, it wouldn't have mattered

It is possible but football organizations have PR and media people to outlet what they want people to hear. Agents don't or at least not to the same level. So I would be surprised if it is as one sided as we are being told.

And even if it is true, a GM with good people and negotiating skills should be able to get the agent to the table even if his initial desire is to wait and ride the coat tails of Quinn's contract. That is what good salesmen do, is get people to close even though they didn't originally want to.

I'm not going to debate Carl's negotiating skills, but the fact that this is Ethan Locke's agency, an agent who has a history with Carl, and a group that has a history of getting rookies in camp late says that it's not just Carl that is the problem here.

I would largely agree with that but the game can be very mental and somebody with a ton of talent to succeed but not extremely tough between the ears could be made or broken based on getting in early. The difference between being able to learn at a reasonable pace as opposed to being force fed at an extreme pace, feeling the extra pressure from your teammates and coaching staff for being late etc could be the difference in coming in and clicking or coming in and being completely rattled. Being mentally overwhelmed could lead to a case of the dropsies also being overwhelmed leads to how your teammates view you and the level of respect they develop towards you etc. A WR losing confidence in his hands can be a lot like a golfer getting the yips with his putter. Some don't recover.

That is an extreme example but stuff like that can certainly play out. A great player that is mentally tough isn't going to be set back much by a hold out but a potentially great player that isn't real mentally tough could be.

There is no doubt that it is not just Peterson. Largely my point is that even if the agent is a pain in the ass that is creating obstacles a good GM will still likely overcome those obstacles and get it done. Peterson doesn't appear capable of overcoming anything less than an ideal situation.

badly wrong indeed.

I would largly agree with that.

This has definitely gone on too long.
Bowe needs to get his butt to camp.

He's only getting further behind and could lose the job that should've been his from Day 1.

We only get him for one season?!?!?

:banghead:

Yep, this "tream" is DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMED!

ROFL





I'm ashamed I actually got a Little House reference.

In 2 years people will have forgotten all about Bowe-he is the next busted draft pick so far.

OK, they guy is yet to show up at TC or take a snap, and he's a bust?

Maybe I'm old-fashioned but I'll give the guy a season or two of actual play before dropping judgement on him.

Too many middle-men in business period ..............

After he misses training camp and half the preseason games-he will be lucky to be a backup.

EK and Sammy will start. Bowe might end up being a 500 yard receiver once we cut him and he goes to another team.

At this rate he won't even be the next Lake Dawson.

He will follow his QB on to the field
someone tell him it's Croyle not Russell

Bowe has likely held himself out of a starting spot. That's about the farthest I'm going.

I'm willing to bet he gets the handle of things about the last 5 or 6 games of the season -- hell, I believed that before the hold out.

I dont care to hear any of Bowes excuses, he's not only hurting our chances of success...he's hurting HIS chances of success.

You are a ROOKIE, you havent proven SHIT...take the several million dollars you are being offered & GET YOUR ASS TO WORK.

THEN!!! when you have had some success, you can go for the big payola...until then you are NOTHING.

Exactly!!!!

He is a Bust so far-but I am hoping he proves me wrong in a big way.

Rookies can't afford to miss camp. He can't play in real action if he does not know the play book. This isn't High School.

The problem for me, is that he hasnt even EARNED the chance to be called a bust yet.

You have to play some, THEN suck, to be a bust.

He hasnt even accomplished that yet.

Your a n00b until Skip says your not.

Hang in there.

This thread is funny.......I'm sure if you were in his spot you'd try to get as much as you possibly could too...

Wow, I had no idea that Bowe is so good that the team has no chance to win without him. We might as well just give up, shut down training camp and call the season off.

No, thats not true...i bet a good many of us would feel that a good start, a crucial good start to our careers, is more important than a couple extra mill.

Its not just Joe Fan that feels that way either, we've all seen interviews & read articles about veterans that feel rookies have gotten WAY out of line with their demands.

In the real world, we have to work FIRST...then get paid.

Having gone through contract negotiations myself recently, I'm sympathetic to Bowe trying to get all the money he can - that's capitalism. However, I think his agent is a douche and the thing that drives me nuts is we all know roughly what the slot is going to pay. With whatever minor wiggle room there is to negotiate, why don't they just put that money in performance incentives?

Bowe haters. Boo.

The only thing "bust" about Bowe is the statue he's going to have in the Hall.

Now, if we can just get him in a game.

FAX

Let me tell you something, in this league as a player if you don't get all the money you can, you're stupid.

If he gets hurt, no one is gonna take care of him. The league and the team will move on and not care, they'll replace him with someone else. Who's to say he'll even be good? If you are in a position to set yourself and your family up for a lifetime you do what you have to do.

If you ask me, what he's being offered right now is MORE than enough to live like a King for the rest of his life, unless he's a COMPLETE fool with his money.

I happen to believe that football is still about being the best player you can be & winning Championships...not $$$.

You're a fan.....it is a business aswell. These guys only have so many years to make money....

Say they're a million dollars apart, to a rookie that's never had money, to a regular guy that's a lot of money....

The league and the owners make tons of money I don't begrudge players at all for getting what they can get. You have a chance to set things up for your family for their lives you do it.

What pisses me off is if you look at the guys that have signed around him Bowe is squabbling about less than $500,000. Just do the math. I don't think Quinn should figure in to what Bowe gets. He's asking for top 10 money even though nobody thought he was worth a top 20 pick. It's frustrating as hell if Bowe is indeed waiting for Quinn to sign. Especially if Cleveland does something stupid like pay him top 10 money. That will really cause some problems, because Carl isn't paying him anymore than what he should be slotted at. It pisses me off that that dollar figure is holding up him being in his rookie training camp. He stands to loose alot more than $500,000 in the future because everyday he misses in camp will be reflected on the playing field in the regular season. If this goes much longer he may not start all year. Who knows. He needs to get his ass to camp.

If I was an NFL player, my contract with my agent would have a secret clause where they get a smaller percentage of the till with every passing day. Sign me today? You get 10 percent. Sign me tomorrow? You get 9.95 percent, and so on. You can bet that the agent would get me into camp on time.

I doubt you'd have an agent, or you wouldn't get the best deal possible.

The Chiefs should decrease their offer daily.

So.

As much as I love football, I'd play the game for $100,000 a year. Just like the players of old who had second jobs during the off-season. I love the game enough that it wouldn't matter to me how much I got paid. Just sign me now, so I can get my love on the field.

You don't need 50 fuggen million. Pull on your helmet, put on your cleats, and get out there and play some fuggen football.

If you have a chance to get that much money you do it, if you don't you are stupid.....it's a lot of money enough to set up your family forever. It's called being a smart businessman.

Just like people who bitch about baseball players is 40 mill a lot of money? Yea but if another team offers 80 you'd be a complete idiot to not take the 80. It's like now if another job offers you twice what you make now I seriously doubt you're gonna be hangin around.

The odds of me not getting an agent would be zero. They would be less than zero if that was possible. There isn't an agent in the world who wouldn't take that deal, because there are 32 first-round picks and 8 gazillion "sports agents".

And in terms of getting the best deal, what's your definition of that? If you mean the maximum money in the short-term, possibly not. But if you mean the best deal for my career, it would help my odds. Right now, you've got agents who will advise a ROOKIE player to HOLD OUT in his all-important first training camp so they can get an extra $100,000, or get some escalator clause that has a 5 percent chance of kicking in. Are they doing that for the player? No. They're doing it so they can get their ten percent and then tell the next prospect that they got a great deal. They don't care about the players' careers.

Mecca, the thing is that he is that by delaying his development, he is putting his second contract at risk. The extra amount he he is likely to get by dragging things out is probably in the neighborhood of 2-3% of his second contract if he becomes a star. When you look at it that way, it's a bad business deal.

How many guys actually see 2nd contracts? The average NFL players career is like 3-4 years......even if he does you never know.

Lets take Reggie Williams for example the 11th pick by the Jags a few years ago the biggest contract he will ever see is likely the first one he signed. There's a legit chance this contract will be the biggest one Bowe gets in his career.

I would guess that 99 percent of first-rounders see second contracts.

First rounders who think that they may not make it to their second contract probably won't.

Bowe is worth less and less to us with each passing day. Our offer should reflect that.

Sylvester Morris.....blows out a knee, done.

Brady Quinn is holding out because he wants close to top 10 money after being ranked as a top 10 prospect throughout the entire offseason before the NFL draft. After a few teams passed (noticably MIA, which btw I still think it's funny they took Ted Ginn Jr. with the 8th pick.) you kinda knew that Quinn was gonna drop. In a sense Quinn has some right in demanding more money than the average #22 1st round pick, but Bowe does not. He was not ranked even in the top 20 on most boards. The slotting is there. Bowe should get paid accordingly based on what others around him got paid. When it all comes down to it, Locke works for Bowe, not the other way around.

Too bad there's not a clause that can't be worked into the deal that says if a player can't contribute to a team B/C he misses too much time holding out, than a % of the signuing bonus needs to be returned - or something along those lines....

I think there are statistics that show long holdouts have a higher propensity to get injured in their first season.

Wow. Just wow.

FAX

I agree that Locke works for Bowe, but IMO Quinn was taken at # 22, therefore he should be paid like it. It's pretty simple in my book.

Ryan Sims.

Bowe was already knicked up earlier workouts....missing camp is almost always a bad thing for rookies, unless you're a no-brainer super star talent like Moss...

the fact we're breaking in a new QB makes it even worse....

Still got another contract with Tampa afterwards, though. It didn't last long, and wasn't as big as he wanted, but it was a second contract. People will always take a chance on a first rounder, as long as it's not Ryan Leaf.

I wonder if there are any studies out there that examine the career earnings of guys who get to camp on time versus guys who hold out. If there's no impact, then you would presume that guys who hold out would have higher career earnings, but I'd be willing to bet that's not the case.

Ever seen anything like that, cdcox? Anybody?

This would be a great paper to write. I wonder if we can get the data.

you'd think agents would have that kind of data....don't know how you'd get your hands on it though....

Found it.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8739142

Quite interesting. However, I wonder if it was based on facts or just his supposition. It'd be interesting to actually do a full analysis.

Largely true for us workforce mortals, but then you get an LJ situation, and the talk seems to shift from what you said to "well sure he's been good in the *past*, but what about now and in the future?"

Everyone seems to just protect their own interests, and few people have the guts to be unselfish.

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