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He come all the Herm defenders crying about Willie Roaf Retiring...

that was neat

Yep, herm's responsible for the fall of the offense, it has nothing to do with the retirements of Roaf and Shields and the concussion/departure of Trent Green. All hail jesus Saunders.

I guess this guy hasn't gotten over it, yet.

FAX

That article is pure GOLD!!!

Damn that didnt take long...

Good coaches recover quickly from that misfortune. I'm embarrassed to display my Chiefs garb......

I see nothing wrong with this article. Herm Edwards was terrible with the Jets and he is terrible with the Chiefs.

ROFL

Funniest part is, I'm not even a herm defender, but come on...

Without Roaf, you have the '01 chiefs. Without Roaf and Shields, you have the '06-'07 Chiefs. It doesn't take einstein to figure that much out. Football's a game won and lost in the trenches, always has been always will be.

Herm's problem is that he had two years to fix that line and he didn't, not until this offseason. If the offense is any better in '08, along with Gailey instead of Solari, it'll be because Albert's a decent player and they found a right tackle not named McIntosh.

The idea that this is somehow what Herm wants? I just don't see it.

Dude does make a decent point:

The Chiefs still moved the ball in 06/07 but they didnt score TD's..



Hmmmm.........Is that not Herm's longtime reputation?

then kindly **** off, sir.

It's Herm's fault that players get older. Herm Edwards is the reason that people age. :rolleyes:

What a shitty article.

Yes without Roaf and Shields the line sucked, and your right the problem has been on going since Herm has been a head coach. His OL's have sucked and he cant seem to build a solid line.

Nope but Herm is responsible for suitable replacements.. Turley and McIntosh are not sutible replacements...

it is Herm's fault that he is a dumbass!!

This is a breathtakingly reeruned article, and sure enough all the resident droolers have started to show up to clap and stomp their open-mouthed approval.

This.

Haven't you heard Herm is teh Debil :evil:

Thread closed!

There were many events that caused us to fail miserably on offense. Herm is not at fault entirely, but he gets his fare share of blame and is looked at mostly because he's the HC and is responsible for how the Chiefs perform.

Reasons why our offense sucks....

1. Roaf/Shields retired. this is the most important as LT is the most important position on offense outside the QB, we all saw in 2004 when Roaf went down, how bad our offense looked against a horrible BUF team. Without Roaf and Shields for that matter, the offense did nothing. Trent Green wasn't anything special. He didnt have a strong arm, he was old, and wasn't athletic, and held onto the ball a long time, longer than most QB's. But that was all fine and dandy when you have a probowl line protecting you providing you with 8 seconds of protection to get rid of it. ANY decent QB would flourish behind that Oline. Look at what Tom Brady did last season before the SB, NO ONE touched him, that oline was the best Oline at pass blocking in the league and it wasn't even close. Indy can be in that same category too. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are only as good as the protection their Oline gives them. They arent athletic enough the scramble outside the pocket etc. Our WR's have always been crap outside TonyG, but eventually a WR will get open if he gets 8 or so seconds to get rid of the ball. The Oline from 2002-2005 made those offenses click....PERIOD.

2. Change of philosophy. Even though the Chiefs were in tops of the NFL in time of possesion. Herm wanted to run the ball even more to control the clock.....even more so than we already did. AS and DV willing to throw the ball down field. Herm wants more of a short west coast offense with dump offs and moving the chains offense. Herm has NO desire to EVER go for the Homerun, which is why I think he will always fail as a coach and will NEVER win the big game. This article has a great point. After Herm is done with the Chiefs, I don't think there is one team in the NFL that would pick him again as a HC. I also don't think he will go back to coordinating or scouting either.

3. Playing a rookie QB during a youth movement. Not only we are playing with a rookie QB for the most part, other primart positions on offense are also rookies and are also learning on the job as the season goes on. There are gonna be ups and downs and thats all part of the game. The only problem is when we play decent to good teams, we are gonna get our asses kicked in more ways people could ever imagine, which destroys any confidence this team ever had on offense.

4. Lack of ST. Ever since Herm got here and DV and his staff left our return game has been the laughing stock of the NFL. If there is one thing DV knew and was very good at was breaking down ST portion of the game. He was the first ST coach in the NFL btw FWIW. We had ST allstars during his time here. Trading away Dante Hall was a big mistake. He was good at making people miss and was always good for a few returns a year. Hopefully Savage changes that and what we have witnessed since Herm has been here.

5. Carl Peterson, shit for anything he's just been here way too damn long and should have left when Marty left.


Theres a fine line between good and bad coaches.

Good coaches you know that no matter what, your team will always be in the game or have a chance at winning it.

Bad coaches you know when you play some teams you have zero chance in winning, which is what I feel with Herm Edwards and have never thought while DV, Gun, or Marty were HC. (Carl's tenure)

This is really, really incorrect. Dante was terrible in his last season as a Chief.

The ST blocking was HORRIBLE in Herm's first season. Dante still took one to the house and almost had another one.

But hey we are in MUCH better shape now starting from damn near the ****in 20yd line everytime someone kicks off to us.

Dante wasn't all that valuable to this team anyhow. Sure, he might have took one to the house, but more than likely he was just going to get us to the 35-40 maybe, so we could march down field to their 40 if we were lucky and set up for a 55+ yard FG.

The real fucking travesty for our KR's is keeping Sams for anything.

Vermeil was able to do fairly well in 2001 (5th in yards and 16th in scoring) with Tait (a RT more than a LT), Waters in what I believe was his first year starting after being converted from a TE, Weigman, Shields and a combo of Spear/Riley at RT.

Other than Shields I don't recall any of the other OL being considered all that great at the time. A decent offensive coach was able to make chicken salad out of a questionable lineup.

I have to admit that I was (and remain, somewhat) incensed over Herm's blatant lie in his first press conference that he wasn't going to change the offense. But, that's all in the past and I'm pretty much over it now just like Herm said I should be.

The retirement of Roaf, the injury to Trent, and the hiring of Solari sent us into a tailspin. The only part of that which can be directly attributed to Herm, however, is the Solari pick. But, the organization should have had the foresight and ability to develop a lineman or two who could serve as reasonable replacements for our big Willies. Not only did they not do that, they brought in several of the worst offensive linemen ever to play the game of football. That is just stupid. Actually, I don't know what you call it ... malfeasence, maybe.

Herm then realizes he's in the crapper and comes up with a "Plan". It's kind of cool, too. Because, not only does the "Plan" mollify the fans who get excited about watching young, upcoming players, he buys himself additional years as our HC because young players aren't expected to win right away. Carl backs the "Plan" because he has no other choice in the matter and we're off to the races.

My problem is that I don't know whether or not we're racing toward success or failure. Time will tell, I suppose. But, if you base your future expectations on past performance, I'm not sure Herm isn't the worst coach in the league right now. I mean, who would be worse?

FAX

Do you remember how bad Dante was in his last Chiefs season? He showed a complete inability to go north/south. He was moving laterally way too much, trying to force an amazing return out of nothing every time. He had the dropsies, too.

I'm not defending Herm as he has a lot to prove with this current direction of the team but it was Peterson who admitted it was his mistake to assume they could get by with the Oline last season.

The lose of the electifying dante hall should have no effect? teams kicked it out of bounce on kickoffs just to avoid him returning it, great for reverses, speed. the lose of the best back in the league at the time down with an injury Priest Holmes didn't hurt, the lose of Trent Green due to a concussion didn't hurt? The retirements of Will Shields, and Willie Roaf didn't hurt? Welbourn getting caught with roids and his suspensions, and playing clean didn't hurt? Weigmann just fell off the deep end. Totally converting from the oldest offense to youngest shouldn't hurt either. The lose of Al Saunders shouldn't hurt and hiring a mental reerun offensive line coach for coordinator shouldn't hurt? We did fill the temporary o-line retirements holes up terribly though. How about the best fullback in football? nope instead we put bigfoot there

That was a pretty good piece. I am not completely ready to throw Herm under the bus. Not yet. But he has been a major problem. Although I don't completely agree with everything he typed, I think CoMo did a pretty good job of summing it up. It was a combination of things but a lot of the blame has to go to Herm.

I am still willing to give him the benefit of doubt for now. One thing that I do believe Herm has done well is drafting. That is one area that CoMo and I apparently disagree. Frankly, I would not mind if the Chiefs demoted Herm to a scout. :) If this team does not show any kind of improvement in the next year or two, Herm should be on the first bus to Timbuktu.

Does anyone remember what happened when Teflon Herm Edwards brought his Jets to Arrowhead Stadium ? I do. My throat was hoarse from cheering, and my hands sore from clapping. It was like arena ball...........

If Herm is such a great coach, and this team was truly collapsing when he arrived, why didn't he start the great rebuilding effort from day one ?

Okay, great we went from really good(vermeil) to horrible(Herm). Now let's switch the view to the defense..we went from PATHETIC(Vermeil) to above average(Herm). Not only that, but this guy is actually claiming that Damon Huard is a GOOD quarterback...what the hell? This guy is an idiot.

Chiefs without Roaf, Shields, Holmes, Richardson and Green.

About the same as the Cowboys without Newton, Stepnoski, Smith, Johnston and Aikman.

I was dropping my kid off at her first day of fifth grade this morning. One of my buddies a HUGE Jets fan came up to me and was excited about the count down to football. I told him I'm excited because, finally after several years of suckage, we're trying to rebuild. I don't expect a great season, but we're finally moving in the right direction. He patted me on the back with sympathy and said I have four letters. H E R M

Can't go anywhere when no one is blocking for you.

It's not that hard to figure out.

Fact: We are in much worse shape now without Dante than we were before.

Carl

Except those Dallas teams had about just as many probowlers on the othe side of the ball as well.

BOW DOWN, HATERS. BOW BEFORE DOWNFIELD!

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...fnex8/610x.jpg

Well, yeah . . .

Are you new here, or just had me on ignore. I'm the guy who advocated fielding our _efense in field hockey skirts back in DV's days.

Know your source: Webmaster Kerry J. Byrne is a die-hard Pats fan that...
 

hates everything and anything associated with the JETS. Including Herm. I'm not a Herm apologist or his biggest fan, but the author of the article didn't mention Solari once in the article. Do we really know who hired Solari? Did Peterson and/or Hunt ram the hiring down Herm's throat? We just don't know. My guess is that it was another Arrowhead case of loyalty prevailing over common sense. O-line coaches generally don't make the best OCs. I think that Solari was given autonomy on the play-calling and was the main problem regarding the offensive scheme and play-calling. I'm willing to give Herm this season to prove his salt. Herm is not unlike Dick Vermeil in that he should have an experienced coordinator on the side of the ball that he doesn't specialize in. He has that now in Gailey. That's just MHO, but I'm much more confident with Gailey over Solari. The Herm-haters may well be proven right after this season. If so, I'll be the first to jump on the bandwagon for a new head coach after this season. If not, maybe we'll all be a little more optimistic on the prospect of success in the playoffs. This season's bottom line for Herm's tenure: appropriate development of current players, overall prudent play-calling on both sides of the ball and no less than six wins.

Back to the original post. Here's an excerpt that exposes the tactics of Kerry J. Byrne(Cold Hard Football Facts.com). Some might say that they're not far removed from the tactics of KC's own Jason Whitlock. (i.e. "Sack the Hack"; 810 exodus, 610 exodus, ESPN exodus, etc.)


...Earlier this year, Byrne’s site famously partnered with Bruce Allen’s Boston Sports Media Watch to compose an open letter titled “Fire Ron Borges.” The screed, which ran nearly 5,000 words (slightly longer than the U.S. Constitution), attacked Borges for being a “tactless hack” who “lacks objectivity” and “makes things up,” and is “wrong about virtually everything.” It accused Borges of being a “bully” and “culturally insensitive.” It stopped short of implying that he drop-kicks orphans and donates money to Hamas, but not by much.
...
The crux of Byrne and Allen’s piece—which ran on both men’s websites—dealt with what they perceive to be unreasonable anti-Pats animus on the part of Borges. Specifically, they wanted to know how Borges could criticize Belichick when he’s won three Super Bowls. As further evidence of Borges’s bias, they quoted the following exchange from a radio appearance on 1510 AM:

Caller: “Most of us trust [Belichick]...he’s got a little bit of a track record around here.”
Borges: “Yeah, well, Emperor Hirohito had a big lead in the early days, too.”

“At least I didn’t call him Hitler,” Borges says. “Sure, I’ve said things that would’ve been best left unsaid. I think I have a sense of humor that’s not for everybody. Sometimes I wish I had a better filter. But then I wouldn’t be where I am. Or it would be phony. And that’s worse to me.”

The main objective of Byrne and Allen’s piece was to solicit e-mails demanding Borges’s immediate dismissal. (Byrne says he received about 1,000 e-mails, all of which were also sent to the Globe; the paper contends the number is closer to a few hundred.) It was talk radio fodder for weeks. Still is, from time to time. Byrne, for one, refuses to let it die. “Borges lets his dislike for Belichick and the Pats cloud his judgment and how he covers the team,” he says.

“It’s not personal,” says Borges. “I don’t know Belichick well enough for it to be personal. He’s a great coach. But there’s not much else that’s redeeming about him—which will get me in trouble with people, but it’s true. People beat me up for saying I’d rather have Tony Dungy as my coach.” Borges has been touting the relative merits of the non–Super Bowl–winning coach for years, much to the frothing displeasure of local fans. “How many times do I have to say it? Dungy has never been on the front page of a tabloid newspaper for something other than football. That’s why I’d take him over Belichick.”

Between sips of his smoothie, Borges stops walloping Belichick long enough to show off the football knowledge that has propelled him into one of the top newspaper jobs in town. With professorial aplomb, he explains the intricacies of running pass routes, of why it’s not always the quarterback’s fault when a ball is thrown short and incomplete. Maybe the receiver ran 14 yards when he was supposed to go 11. The lesson is thorough (if a bit dry), and points to the fact that it’s not all bluster with Borges. He’s gained infamy, sure, but also respect. Since 1999, he’s been named the state’s sportswriter of the year five times by the National Sportswriters and Sportscasters Association.

“No one in Boston knows more about the NFL than Ron Borges,” writes Globe sports editor Joe Sullivan in an e-mail. Even Borges’s peers concede this point. “If you have no knowledge behind what you’re saying, if you’re just throwing bombs, that loses its impact really quick,” says Mike Felger, the Herald’s Pats beat writer. “Ron knows things. He talks to people. He’s been covering the team for a while.”http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/mr_popularity/

:D

Blame Solari and all the other stuff if you want.
If Chan's offense turns out to be the sputter putt the Chiefs had last year we can rightfully claim Herm as the great destroyer of offenses (on the teams he coaches). He is the reason for Croyles piss poor play and confidence as well. Who in their right mind would let Dick Curl coach their QB?

So stupid. A coach who makes the playoffs 4 times in 7 years is the worst in football? Any douchebag can have a website nowadays.

On a more serious note, this is absurdity. Herm is not an elite head coach, but he's nowhere near the worst in the league. I'd say he's a slightly above average head coach who needs an elite player to put him over the hump.

An elite player? He needs an elite team to ignore him. Plus two elite coaches to run the offense and defense for him.

Disagree. Herm is below average to failure.

QFT!!!!!!!!!!

If the Chiefs have a losing season, but get hot and show improvement towards the end of the season , that should buy Herm some time. But, if we go down in flames , he should feel the boot in the ass.

Yep, above average coaches don't have losing records.

:thumb: rep

How do you explain Belichick's LOSING record in Cleveland?

He was actually better than hes given credit for there.

They went to the playoffs twice and his last season there fell apart once it was announced They were moving the team. Not his fault.

And going through 4 QB's in 2005 was Herm's fault?

Oddly enough, Herm's been to the playoffs FOUR times in seven years. Which is more than two, last I checked.

Bit of a double standard...

My reasoning for why Herm is a failure.

1. Remember this article?

- Only a f**king moron could take over this team, watch the offense flop, then blame the SYSTEM for it. I mean... the offensive system has always been a problem, right? At the time, the scheme was not the goddamn problem, the players already know it and set RECORDS WITH IT. How in the hell can you simplify a offense, if we don't even have a goddamn playaction that was non-existiant in the first place? And of course, now our offense is EXACTLY what Herm wants, a GOOD NFL EUROPE offense instead of an ACTUAL NFL OFFENSE.

I guess this quote sums up well, eh?

2. Clock-management skills is horrible.

- Last time I checked, he's still the ONLY NFL coach to have a clock management coach, yet we all wonder why he still sucks at it? Come on man, if you have a clock management coach, you sure as hell don't belong in the NFL. Case in point, during the playoffs when the Chiefs needed a score and in a hurry, I was screaming at the TV during the game to hurry the f**k up!

9 minutes left and the Chiefs were lazily huddling and walking to the line of scrimmage....it was f**king disgusting, and Herm just stood their with that stupid f**king "Herm" look on his stupid f**king Herm face. I KNEW we're f**ked.

The object of the game off football on offense is to score a TD everytime you have the ball. Belichick knows this, Herman Edwards and the rest of the coaching staff doesn't.

Case in point. New England is up 42-10, 1 minute left in the 3rd quarter, heading to the 4th quarter. It's 4th quarter, 4 and 1 on the Buffalo 10.....and goes for it, adding ANOTHER TD 3 plays later.

On the same day, earlier, 1:15 left until halftime, with 3 TO's left, tie score vs the defending champs, Herman F**king Edwards goes to the locker room. Another play, 8 minutes left, tie score, 3rd and long and a submitting draw play/punt.

Something reeks here.

3. Firing assistant coaches who did NOT deserved to be fired, and hanging on to assistant coaches who has no business of being in the NFL.

- Explain to me why Terry Shea deserved to be fired in 2007 and replaced by Dickless Curling? After Trent having a MVP-like for almost 4 seasons, and not to mention that despite Damon's limitations and all, that Damon looked like a actual f**king QB, Terry Shea was replaced by Dickless Curling, who has no business of being in the NFL. Explain to me why Mike Priefer is still coaching for the special teams, when it's obvious that our special teams play have majorly sucked ass the last two years? I can go on and on on this subject, but i'll just leave it as this.

4. Lacks accountability/authority.

- Everybody remembered the HBO Hard Knocks fiasco where Herm and Dickless Curling was wanting to go with Brodie, but somehow Kingless Carla meddled into the situation perferring that Damon Horrid start the season. Even when it was CLEARLY obvious that pre-season that Croyle was outperforming Damon Horrid, Horrid somehow got the starting job. Huh? Of course it's obvious that Carl wanted Damon Horrid to be the starter becuase he KNOWS that he's in deep s**t already with the fans. He KNOWS that the Chiefs are going to suck this year, regardless of if it's Huard or Croyle back there. Carl is trying to save face, and hope for a 9-7 so he can just raise the f**king ticket prices, AGAIN! So, Herman F**king Edwards should had told him "F**k you, I'm starting Croyle, and if you don't like it, kiss my ass."

Even if it means Herm losing his job, I would have a hell of a respect for Herm if he grew some balls and went after Carl on that situation.

And when things goes wrong on the team, Herm does not accept the responsbility that a Head Coach should. He just either pass it to others or to the players, or well known as throwing others under the bus.

And finally, I'll never get over the "Get over it! It happens. It’s called life" comment. Motherf**ker should had been fired right after that press conference.

I still blame Carl Peterson for not having a plan or drafting a LT & RG while big Willie & Will Shields were playing. He had plenty of time to prepare for those two to retire. Good or elite Franchise retool not rebuild. Carl Peterson imo never wanted a youth movement but uses it as a cruch now for excuses.

Herman ****ing Edwards sucks ass, but not for the reasons cited in this article.

He doesn't have one now does he? Herm just continues downhill. If Herm is above average where is average? 20 games under .500? Even you should know better than that.

Dis man speaks 'da troof.

I blame Lamar Hunt for allowing Carl to stay on and conntinue to do the same things, year after year, after they had already failed, over and over.

I have been making the same point as this article for 3 years. You are right, the offense would have stayed #1 if Willie Roaf had not retired. Herm should carry no blame. :spock:

Then change teams. Why are you a Chiefs fan?

Sad isn't it. All the BS Carl Peterson has done over the years the list goes on and I get upset thinking bout it too much. Just the way he handled Neil Smith alone should have gotten him fired. We never had a long term QB just a quick fix old banged up rejected QB year after year. Nothing stable either our defense was good but not the offense, or our offense was good but our defense sucked!

I liked that article. Made me feel better.

Herman ****ing Edwards deserves some blame.

Hiring Mike Solari (whether or not he was forced on him is a debate for another day), then handcuffing him, hiring Dick Curl, running LJ into teh ground, etc.

However, laying all the blame at Herman ****ing Edwards feet ignores the fact that Dick Vermeil and Carl sucked ass in the draft, failing not only to fix the defense, but spending so many picks on that defense, and allowing the O-Line to grow old without any viable replacements.

The offense, under Dick, did what it did because it had one of the greatest O-Lines, ever.

Herm is on the same coaching level as Rich Kotite...

Nice Try big ED...

But the fact remains that Herm cannot and will not have a productive Offense...

Give him the Chiefs of 2005 and he would of destroyed that recorded setting offense in less than a full season...

If Herm has no blame, then why hasnt he fixed the OL yet. IF he is so ****ing great at judging talent....

Herm would be a great college coach. All his rah-rah bulls**t would probably be really effective in recruiting talented young guys. And he is a good motivator. But he's not cut out to be an NFL HC. I'm surprised there's still supporters out there....

Nah. Again, the big problem with Herm is that his football philosophy is severely out-dated. He runs the ball to open the passing game. That doesn't work anymore. You have to pass in order to open the running game.

He'd get slaughtered, just like Greg Robinson for Syracuse is right now.

Yeah I cant see Herm running a spread offense in college...

Guys like Meyer, Pinkel, Big Twinkie (Mangino) and others would run him right out of the stadium on saturdays...

No different than the guys in the NFL doing the same thing on Sundays.

The point of the article is that "no matter what has been lost look what they still have, they have no excuse to be this bad on offense and the reason they are is Herm Edwards horrible philosophy"

I don't see how that makes it a bad article it's true, Herm wants to play offense like it's 1967.

People can defend Herm all they want the truth is the man is a shitty coach that refuses to adapt.

That comment reminded me of "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi


Which is sad

It's a bad article because it does balme Herman ****ing Edwards entirely for the total decline of the offense, and that simply isn't the case.

True Milkman, but Herm hasnt helped his cause any......

No he hasn't.

I just believe that you should be fair when you critisize a player or coach.

I can't stand Herman ****ing Edwards, and don't think he will ever get this team to where we want to go, but I like to think that I critisize him, and evertyone else, fairly.

I like to think my criticism was fair on that lengthy post I made.

It was a great post

Sooo, you're proud? You have blinders on. You can keep Herm Edwards. How long have you been a fan youngster?

I didn't read.

I have a short attention span.











Joking.

I thought you were spot on.

Of course it is.

Herm is like Rep/Dem or Ford/Chevy.

People will invent ways to hate the other argument.