The problem with Dorsey
 

People have become concerned with Glen Dorsey, and fear that he may not be all that was expected.

Whitlock has pointed to his knee injuries as a possible explanation for his lack of production.

Some people have pointed out that he hasn't developed any moves, and others have talked about the fact that he tends to take a step back at the snap.

The biggest problem I see is that he has a tendency to lower his head when he attacks the LOS, and when he does that, the battle is all but lost.

Regardless, all of the technique errors are correctable, and when corrected, he will be a force.

But give him time.

He's a rookie.

It takes time.

Especially at his position.
Besides, he's a former 5th overall pick so we're stuck with him for at least 2 more years.

I think we may need to identify a different Defensive Line coach though.

DT takes longer to develop than any position on the defense. I'm not concerned about him in the least.

Whitlock is just stirring shit.

A couple pics from Sunday.

http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/2...ey1copyru8.jpg

Owned by Faneca.


http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/7...ey2copysj4.jpg

Blown off the ball by Faneca.

My post wasn't directed specifically at Whitlock.

It was addressing the reasons that I've seen discussed, and the one, and probably biggest reason, that I haven't seen addressed.

This. Again.

Faneca's a wiley veteran in this league.
One of the most highly-touted FA O-Lineman available this off-season.

That doesn't bother me.

except for you have to have good coaching to solve these technique issues.

Look at that pic in the pass rush.

Where's his head?

Those jerkoffs are in such a bad ****ing position in that second photo. It makes me sick to look at it.

Indeed.

I'm not sure that Krumrie's that guy.

It seriously looks like he's taking about to take a shit.

I'm certain he isn't.

I agree about his vision. There was another run play in the 1st half where he was getting pushed to the inside and the runner ran right by him. If he'd been watching the play he could've spun and made the tackle, but it was obvious he was just watching the block.

Heh ... everyone thought Mario Williams was a bust after his first year and Bush was the clear winner. 2007 People went back on that prediction. Mario Williams looks like a player. Defense players usually take 2-3 years to get into there roll, with defensive scheme and technique changes.

Edit~~ I don't think that Reggie is not a player but we are so quick to label players who may not produce as much right out of college where they dominate.

We must be the home of the most inept position coaches in the NFL.
We need a new coaches for the OL, DL, QB, and LB's.

I can guarantee you that he's not the guy. He's a terrible coach that people gravitate to just because he's a ****ing loudmouth.

I wish I could find a clip of him breaking his leg in the Super Bowl...:D

the first photo looks like faneca has a hold of his jersey pulling him down

Well while I'm not a fan of DTs who are hovering around 300 lbs, that's a little light for my taste, we know the guy has the skill set to be a dominate player. Otherwise, every scout out there wouldn't of thought that this guy could be the most talented player in last year's draft.

So I'm sure he'll come around in time.

But I think getting rid of Gun & Tim Krumrie would be a good start in the off-season.

Hey with any luck, Herm will be gone which will take care of all the others. :D

That may well be, but the thing is, once Dorsey lowers his head, he loses vision, and gives the O-Lineman leverage advantage by default.

If you watch the play live, Faneca took on his initial block, pushed him away and took him on the second time. I looked like an obvious rook vs. a vet, which is ok because thats what it was, but he got owned.

Those pics depress me to no end.

I can't believe the size of the running gaps that the Oline blew open. You could drive a Mack truck though the lanes. There is NO penetration or rush whatsoever.

Why did they not run the ball down our fucking throats?

i can see that too. hopefully he gets someone to teach him and all these young linemen how to play

Hopefully his knees will be able to hold up.

Glenn Dorsey through 7 games: 18 tackles, 14 solo, 0 sacks

The rest of these guys rookie year, 16 game:

Warren Sapp - 27 tackles, 3 sacks, 1 int
Albert Haynesworth, 30 tackles, 21 solo, 1 sack
Tommie Harris - 43 tackles, 28 solo, 3.5 sacks
Casey Hampton - 22 tackles, 9 solo, 1 sack
Kris Jenkins - 34 tackles, 27 solo, 2 sacks
Marcus Stroud - 25 tackles, 21 solo, 0 sacks

Some guys take off right away (Kevin Williams, John Henderson) but others take some time to develop.

There ain't nothing wrong with his damn knees. He's just a rookie.

So true, size is no substitute for good technique and it takes time to develop it. But I agree, at 7 games in Dorsey should have been told by his line coach that his technique was off and to get his head up.

The difference is monumentous between college and pros. And Faneca has definatly been around the block. It takes time to develop the skills to compete and dominate in the NFL.

I, for one, am not ready to give up on Glenn Dorsey, or any of our players from the last draft class, it is far too soon and they haven't had a coach worth a sh*t.

Who got the double team

Good post, I was wondering how all the greats fared their first seasons. Good to see he is on pace with those names.

and how many people around here wanted NOTHING to do with faneca?

at this point no concern.....

wonder who those sacks were against.... a real database could help alot with these questions.

Especially with Sapp, that surprises me.

Faneca would just take away learning snaps
like Favre is

from who? jones??

How has he done against players that are < Faneca. Does he still get dominated at the line?

Dorsey will be incredible IMO once he develops and gets some talent beside, as in an outside pass rushing threat. I think Tank is coming along fine, especially compared to last season. I think the rest of this season we should just watch and we'll see Dorsey develop right before our eyes! :drool:

The thought process was that people expected the Chiefs to be more aggressive in the draft in selecting the O-Line position.

Had most known that the only O-Lineman taken in this draft were going to be Albert and Richardson, they would probably have been for a more aggressive approach in free agency.

Tackles are such an unreliable indicator. KC is on pace to be the worst run defense in the history of the NFL in terms of ypc. It doesn't matter if he has 100 tackles if they are 6 yards downfield.

awwww i recall people saying faneca was a scrub. but the REAL problem was people expecting carl and herm to do the right thing

I don't recall anyone calling the guy a scrub. Just that he didn't fit the bill of what we were doing.

really? a DT with 100 tackles wouldnt mean anything?
No matter where 100 tackles are made by a Dt would be VERY impressive. just means shit is all around him.
Do you actualy think that if he has a better season than all those guys on the list that it wouldnt mean much?
Do you think the LBs should be blamed at all?

I dont know how you would get underneth an Olineman's pads to gain leverage without your head going lower, but I assime he you mean he is looking towards the ground

yeah they did, maybe not those words but to that effect.

How are the other rookie DTs doing
I don't recall hearing Gholston's name sunday

I'm not sure you can judge a "better" season by tackles. If he finishes with the same # of tackles that Haynesworth had as a rookie, but KC sets the record for worst ypc and teams ran the ball 100 more times against KC, I don't think you could consider him having a better or equal season than Haynesworth.

well crap
Gholston is a linebacker
I would have sworn he was a DT

Gholston has been invisible all year.

Where'd you take those from? Techmo Bowl?

ROFL. Canon Powershot from my couch taking pictures of my TV on my day off. **** it, rewatching the game wasn't nearly as painful as being in Olathe traffic court for an hour and a half this morning.

are you talking individual or team as in "better season". and it's almost universally understood that our LBs are the reason for such a shitty run d

The D line isn't doing its job either. Look at the photos in this thread. Gaping holes and OL are getting cleanly to LBs.

Donkey kong
 

Monkey kong

Agreed, but I've noted when following GameCenter that a lot of his actual tackles made are for very short gains.

I think what we're seeing out of Dorsey is feast and famine but only just barely, i.e. 10% feast, 90% famine. I've seen a couple stout plays, but mostly not.

And I do think it's coaching. SEVEN games. Honestly not concerned because my opinion of him at this time last year was that he was the best player in the country, and one doesn't just lose that ability. I would be concerned if I thought he sucked back in March, and I might say he's proving me right, but it simply takes time.

The problem with Dorsey is hes a rookie with piss poor coaches and no surrounding talent.

Are the Chiefs' DT's and MLB taught to simply take on and occupy the blocker? In that second pic, the player in the middle of the field (I can't make out the number but I think it is Thomas), is ignoring the runner and looking directly at #65. There is absolutely nobody behind him to tackle the runner.

Although I agree in principle with your statement, Dorsey doesn't need surrounding talent in order to beat one man across from him on the LOS, Mr. RustShack.

Dorsey's biggest problem is youth and coaching, right now.

The Chiefs organization has proven time and time again over many, many years that they lack the ability to properly develop young players. They rarely do. Ever. Unless you come into this organization with the talent of a Gonzo or a DT or you're a veteran like Green or Priest or Roaf, you don't get much better as a player. There are exceptions to this, but they are rare.

FAX

He's old.

Ideally I believe a DT should have tied up 2 OL so the lineman doesn't have a clear shot on Thomas, and Thomas is supposed to hit the gap and the ball carrier.

I'm one who wanted nothing to do with Faneca. I'm sick of the George Allen approach of selling the future for now. This team needed to be rebuilt.

Faneca is old and would required a very large contract. Then he would last just long enough to need to be replaced just as the team was coming out of rebuilding. Better to find a young long term solution during the rebuilding phase.

Plugging holes with aging free agents is the best path to mediocrity. Look at what Faneca and Farve did for the Jets. Ran up their salary cap and made them a .500 team.

Thomas (if that's him) doesn't even look like he is going to fight off the block. It looks like he is trying to give #65 a hug.

I'd rather him being blown off the ball by a pro bowl (maybe HOF?) center than a scrub one.

Which is worse, Dorsey being driven back 4 yards by one guy, or the other DT lying on his face with two Jets standing over him?

That is showing his complete lack of awareness of what is happening on the field. At this point he should know who has the ball and he should be making his move toward the ball carrier. Its no wonder why they keep getting gashed for the big gainer.

The same kind of shit as Ryan Sims?

IMO it's the same kind of shit as Mario Williams first year in the league.

DT is alot like a pro baseball players batting average with .300 being good.

Hitting the ball just 3 out of 10 times is considered good.

A DT whose pass rush sacks the QB once out of every 20-25 plays would lead to very impressive statistics.

It's a tough learning curve even for a college great like Dorsey, and with our coaching staff the learning curve and time it takes will be even tougher and longer for him.

Dorsey is not getting it done. He is getting pushed around like Simms. He looks like a Major bust thus far.

It's way too early to say that, Mr. Halfcan. Surely you realize that.

The broken record keeps saying it's a coaching/player development issue. I wonder if there's anyone in the Chiefs' front office who even recognizes that could even potentially be the problem, though.

FAX

I just wish he would show a few flashes of why he is getting a bizillion bucks for 14 tackles?? :rolleyes:

dorsey has been even worse than Simms at this point.

I can't argue that Dorsey has performed below inititial expectations. Well, I could, but it would be stupid and I'm supposed to be in stupid recovery.

My biggest concern in respect to Dorsey is two-fold: 1) His knees are much worse than we've been told or 2) We simply cannot teach a DT how to improve his game in order to compete at the NFL level.

Last week, I went back and looked at all the defensive linemen we've drafted over the past 6 or 7 years, or so. It's a pretty long list and none of them have really panned out (except for JA and he was really drafted as a long-snapper). Even the somewhat highly touted Hali has disappointed.

What that tells me is that, it really doesn't matter who we draft or where we draft them. If we don't get lucky with a guy like Allen, those guys are not going to improve ... or even last. I would think that the law of averages would come into play eventually and that at least one of those guys would develop into an impact player - but they haven't.

FAX

When he was drafted, one of the big knocks on him was that he often exploded into the backfield by bullrushing. Many scouts thought he had a limited number of pass rush moves.

I have to agree with you. Whitlock is wrong if he thinks this is all about his knees. This is about coaching a talented DT to get out of some bad habits he developed in college, which often happens when he face inferior competition. I think as he learns, he becomes tentative, which is probably why he often takes a step backward.

Dorsey has a good work ethic and he's explosive. Those are things you can't coach. I think there's a good chance he works his way out of it, and he's one of very many talented tackles to struggle in their rookie season.

I also agree... I'm not sure what to think of Krumrie. I think he, like Gun, is another one of those guys that gets too much street cred because he likes to yell, but all I care about is if he can coach.

While I understand your point, I encourage you to look at the rookie stats of virtually every pro bowl or star defensive tackle including Warren Sapp. Very few of these guys made any real impact their rookie season. In fact, Dorsey's stats are right on pace with the others.

Has anyone actually seen what most rookie DT's do in this league?

Christ.

He's leading all rookie DTs in tackles, and only two rookie DTs even have a goddamned sack.

:banghead:

Absolutismish, Mr. chiefzilla1501. I also don't like that silly slap-happy test he gives the players. Jesus. Take that spastic crap back to girl's school.

FAX

We should have drafted Trevor Laws.

For the sake of comparison, through 4 games (prior to getting hurt) Sedrick Ellis had 11 tackles and 1 sack.

The Chiefs, on the other hand, have plenty of sacks of shit, but few QB sacks.

Wonder how long it will be before people want us to put Dorsey on the block for a 2nd to 3rd round pick.


Maybe if ALL of our players aren't growing and developing, that is until they are with a new team, the problem might just be someplace other than our players.

Insightfullistic, Mr. PastorMikH.

There's more to this than meets the Herm.

FAX

Obviously I don't watch the Chiefs as much as Chiefs fans, but the times I have watched them I didn't think Dorsey was bad at all. I think people are expecting too much from a first year tackle. I'd take him on the Donks in a heart beat.

LMAO