Trade LJ to N.E?
 

It looks like Larry Johnson's days in KC are over, too many bridges have been burnt and his relationship with the organization seems tarnished. With that said, how would a trade for him to New England sound for a second round pick in this years draft. It seems logical because:


KC has Jamaal Charles and Kolby Smith

NE has been known to take chances on players (i.e. Randy Moss, Rodney Harrison, Corey Dillon)

KC is young and rebuilding so draft picks are very valuable

NE has San Diego's 2nd round pick in 2009

Laurence Maroney has not been able to carry the load for a whole season and would benefit from a joint backfield like in college (Marion Barber)

I don't think a team will give a 2nd for him

No way he goes for a second. He's not worth it.

NE wouldn't give us a 3rd for LJ.

NE wouldn't give anything for LJ.

They'd do the smart thing and draft another back.

And not offer him a 19 million guaranteed contract.

Love the positive feedback from of this board. Be positive.ROFL

NE gave up a 2nd for Dillon in 04. What's the difference?

Being positive isn't the same as being stupid.

No team in the league will give us a 2nd round draft pick for a problem child running back who hasn't played a full season in two years because of injury or legal troubles.

That NE learns from their mistakes?

The guy is worth about a six of old Mill in trade value right now.

cardken,

Here's the easiest way to answer that question.

Would you give up a 2nd rounder for LJ? No? Then there's your answer.

Why would they draft an old RB that isn't what he used to be and pay him more than hes worth when they can just get a young guy thats better and cheaper in the draft? Just because he was once worth a lot doesn't mean he always will be. Think of a new car you got, doesn't the value go down on it every year?

I assume conditional picks will have to do for him, probably a 6th that can turn into a 3rd if he is decent

How long would your coach put up with a back who won't block and get Brady killed on a blitz?

Didn't New England win a Super Bowl the year they got Dillon?

Make NE better? Fugg no! Trade him to the NFC.

Dillon cared about winning.

They gave up a 4th for Randy ****ing Moss. LJ is worth a 5th or a 6th.

Then they should get the 6er while its still fresh.

right now lj is worth a can of baked beans

so he's been devalued from the 6 pack of Old Mill........:eek:

LJ stock value in free fall.

Conditional 6th that could become a 5th is the absolute most a team with give up for an almost 30 year-old running back with off the field issues.

I think it's more likely he ends up in Dallas, Tampa Bay or maybe Cleveland.

It depends on what brand you're talking about, Bush's are pretty pricey for beans. Probably Van De Kamps.

They sure did.

This organization can't afford to get emotional with their handling of Johnson.
They need to get as much as they can for him.

He can still produce in the NFL. And he could easily go to another team and have a 1,300-yard 15 TD season.

NE is getting productive games out of a cheap undrafted player named Benjarvus Green-Ellis why would they trade for a large contract?

Interesting. That statement indicates that LJ is still a productive player. I agree.

Further I don't think it is a given that we trade or cut LJ. I know he’s got issues and a lot of proving to do. However, we have limited draft choices this year and a lot of holes to fill (DE, MLB, OLB, OG, OT, QB). Cutting LJ creates another hole to fill. Kolby Smith has now missed time due to injury in both of his seasons. Charles isn’t big enough to handle the every down load. If Herm has scared LJ straight, he could be a valuable back for us. The smart GM move would be to go after his signing bonus and guaranteed money because of his suspension. My understanding is that the Chiefs have the right to do so. That I think is LJ’s biggest fear, losing that money. Through the process of going after that money, the Chiefs could seek to restructure his deal and give him the opportunity to put that money back into his pocket through incentives (meetings on time, staying out of trouble, on the field production, blocking).

When we have multiple holes to fill, adding another hole is not a smart play.

Moving LJ doesn't create a hole....

Honestly, NE is one of the few teams that would part for an extra second... The only problem I see, is they would not for one sole reason.. LJ sucks at blocking so they would have to take him out on passing downs.. NE probably has players in mind that can help better protect Brady for next year then whiffing on blocks or blocking into their QB..

someone yelled at me and said that LJ would never take another snap with the Chiefs.

i always hear people being full of shit ... i should really start bookmarking these things.

yep ... LJ's blocking is a huge problem


unlike Herm, most head coaches try and keep their QB's from getting killed.

I like Jamaal on the field, personally. But I'm getting a little sick and tired of hearing this poppy-cock about "we have amazing depth at RB". We have ONE proven RB, and that's LJ. And if he trully is declining, we have ZERO proven RB's. That does not DEPTH make.

The Colts have depth.
The Giants have depth.
The Titans have depth.

We have an over-the-hill RB and lots of young guys who greatest claim to fame is being as futile as LJ behind our putrid O-Line.

I hope Jamaal stays healthy and can string together big games, but right now, do we really have some great RB depth?

Yeah it does. We don't have a starting RB without LJ. Charles isn't durable enough to handle the role and neither is Smith. Remember, Smith missed time last year which is why Battle ended up starting a game or two. If we label Croyle as injury prone, we have to put the same label on Smith.
Further, Smith doesn't have the explosion needed to be an every down back.

LJ can be easily replaced.

The team is 1-9 does it really matter about the game in 3 days?

And 2ndly you don't want proven RB's, RB's have the shortest span of any career, you want young guys who play through 1 contract and are let go for more young guys.

The RB position should be looked at like college you get your 4 or 5 years with em then move on to the next young guy.

I would agree if we didn't have numerous other holes to fill. That was my point, we have too many holes to fill to create another hole by getting nothing in return for LJ. We MUST acquire the following: DE, MLB, OLB (2), OG (2), OT, CB, and QB. Creating another hole is not wise.

LJ can still be a productive back in this league. After missing 4 games this year, I'll go out on a limb and say that LJ still runs for 1000 yards this season.

LJ is way, way more trouble than he's worth. You could pick up an undrafted free agent and get the same production and a lot less bullshit to go along with it.

No you could not get the same production. You may get a better character guy, I'll grant you that, but you won't get the same production as LJ. I believe he'll rush for 1000 yards in 12 games this year. That's very good production.

Further, as I said, you can begin to mitigate the character issues by going after his money.

nobody is going to want to trade for LJ period. we would be lucky to get a bag of jock straps for him,let alone any draft picks....

You'd get a better character guy and you'd get a guy who could block and catch the ball. Basically, Larry Johnson wishes he was as good as Marion Barber in all three phases of his game.

1) Marion Barber was not a college free agent as you said we could get to replace LJ's production.

2) To get a guy like Barber, we'd have to draft one in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round. AGAIN, we have too many holes to fill to create another one for our limited number of draft picks.

3) I agree LJ has demonstrated bad character, mediocre blocking (though he did pretty well against New Orleans) and mediocre pass catching. However, a RB's #1 priority is production with the ball in his hand. He still gives us value in that category.

4) As I stated before because of LJ's suspension we have a window to go after some of his guaranteed money. We should take advantage of that window to turn that money into incentive money based on meeting attendance and participation, off the field behavior, blocking grades and production. LJ is motivated by money, use it to our advantage.

Is this direckshun's alt?

Okay, let's use Willie Parker or even Ryan Grant instead of Marion Barber. The point stands, replacing Larry Johnson isn't that big of a deal. And I don't agree that Jamaal Charles couldn't do it anyway.

The only problem with that is that the Pats aren't idiots.

I think the most we're going to get is a conditional pick for LJ based on production.

It could go as high as a 2nd if he gets elected to the Pro Bowl (which I think he's still capable), or as low as a 6th if he doesn't even break 800 yards or something.

I don't think he can, but your point stands.

LJ is a ****ing scumbag and for anyone other than Peterson HB is about the easiest position to hit on in the draft...

Anyone know his contract numbers for next year?

Good RBs should always be the last piece of a rebuild. Get everyone else in place, and then pick a good RB high in the draft.
That's the best way to get the most, for the longest out of a good RB. The RB will be young, and cheap throughout your 4-6 year window.

It seems to me we were always one good RB away back in the marty era.

now ........ we might be able to trade Larry Johnson to the Pittsburgh Steelers.

they are making a real run and he would fit well into their system.

they have lots or RB injuries and LJ could be that final piece that they could be willing to overpay for

You need to read the entire debated between Brock and I to fully understand. My point has been that we can't afford to use a draft pick on RB because we have too many other holes that must be filled (MLB, OLB, DE, OT, OG, QB, CB). It's not good strategy to create another hole by cutting LJ or trading him for little in return. He is still a very productive back. We have the opporutinity to go after some of his guaranteed money because of his suspensions. The smart play would be to turn that guaranteed money into incentive money and motivate him financially to be the back we need him to be.

Fair enough, but Parker and Grant are a dime a dozen. How many URFA were there in the year they entered the NFL. They are 1 out of a boatload of guys. The Packers didn't even sign the guy, they traded for him after the Giants signed him. Once again, we don't have the draft picks to spend on a RB this year.

So is Larry Johnson. When was the last time he made a play that made you sit up and take notice? For the kind of money you're laying out for him, he'd better be able to punch it in from the one.

The trade deadline passed October 14th.

I highly doubt that the Steelers would trade for him in 2009.

It doesn't matter who is running the ball, if the O-Line doesn't get a push at the 1 yard line NO RUNNING is going to "punch it in". That was on the O-line last week, not LJ.

BTW, I errored in my statement. I meant to say that Parker and Grant are NOT a dime a dozen. I believe my followup sentence supported that. There are far more guys that don't have NFL talent that are URFA.

LJ is not a dime a dozen either. To answer your questoin, I sat up and took notice against the Falcons. I sat up and took notice when he went for almost 200 yards against the Broncos. In fact, I sat up and took notice when he ripped off 8 yards a carry against the Saints until the O-Line got punked on the goalline.

you're a lot more impressed with him than I am. I'll leave it at that.

Fair enough. Let's be clear. I think he is replaceable, but I think we have too many holes to fill to spend time, energy, money and/or draft picks on his spot when we have him already.

They have good depth come next year with Parker, Mendenhall and i assume Moore is signed too

this is true ...... i guess i thought everyone was just talking hypothetical.

Why are so many people so damn negative all the time? The same people clammering that LJ has no trade value, are the same people that said Hall, Tynes, and Sims had no trade value. Somebody out there will give a 2nd for Larry.

I'd say about 60-80 members on here are negative about LJ. Squeaky wheels are the loudest.

ESPN The Magazine actually floats this in their latest issue. A "Don't be surprised if Belichick goes after Larry Johnson" type rumor, likening it to the Pats adding Corey Dillon a few years ago.

they might do it, they did it with Correy Dillon and it worked out pretty good for them

What mistake? Dillon preformed and got them Championship. Much like Johnson, Dillon was a major malcontent, and once on a winning team ws quiet and preformed magnificently.

I'm not in the market for a RB, NE will be Mulroney is a career injury prone player.

lj's effort and attitude are damaging to this team....

we can't afford not to get rid of his lazy, quitter, selfish, chick bashing ass....

ha has to go

You could be right about where he winds up, but in 2004 when Patriots traded for Dillon, he was 30 as well (2004). born Oct. 24, 1974. Larry Johnson born Nov. 10, 1979. 30 years old.

Dillons last year in Cincy had 541 yards in 13 games, w/ 2 TD's. No Pro Bowl there, and were given 2 rd pick. History often repeats itself.

What's the hurry, "we're rebuilding", isn't that the War Cry of this Message Board, were a young team, 2-3 years from seriously competing. Johnson would be 34 by then, and gives you time to build your line in place of getting your RB, look the line dictates the run, ask the Broncos, how many 1000yd rushers have they send through that mill.

Thank You!!!!

rochambeaurochambeau
NE gave a fourth for MR. Randy Moss we'de be lucky to get a 6th or seventh round pick, wouldn't that be great:D





Better than rochambeau

I've looked at a couple of rebuilds in the current NFL. The model is this:

A team begins with a top 10 draft pick.
The team continues to decline and ends up with an even higher draft pick.
The team then improves to be competitive the next year battling for the playoffs or even making it.
The team improves to be a serious contender for the superbowl.

The best example is the Titans. Their rebuild began 4 years ago and is now in the contend for the SB phase.

The other examples would be the Dolphins and the Falcons. Both teams are coming off the even higher draft pick phase and are competive battling for the playoffs.

The Chiefs should compete next year. The Chiefs should compete next year if the rebuild will be successful. If they don't then Herm needs to go and they need to start over with another coach.

I would agree with you about the Dolphins and Falcons, key points being top draft picks panning out (Matt Ryan), and new competent Head Coaches. The Titans however not so much. They had every intension of running with Young, when that went south, they relayed on a veteran Quarterback in Collins. And also did a lot of FA signing in Kearse, Mc Carriens,& Crumpler. They also the recepiants of a "perfect storm", in a week schedule and a weak division this year. But your "blueprint" can work, QFT. But my original argument being Johnson for the Chiefs is expendible and has value out there.
"

You're smoking crack.

No one and I mean NO ONE will give the Chiefs a 2nd round pick for a nearly 30 year-old RB with serious off the field issues.

Those players you listed above were traded for 7th round picks with the exception of Hall, who's played like a 7th rounder since being traded.

The Chiefs will be lucky to get a conditional 6th for Johnson.

LUCKY.

There aren't many teams ....if any that would give us a 2nd rd pick for LJ.

NE for sure isn't one of them. They run a spread type offense which req the RB to block........not exactly LJ's strongest ability.

no one is giving a 2nd for LJ

no one

In addition to LJ's off the field problems and current lack of production he's also tethered to a huge contract.

And the Pat's unlike the Chiefs, like to use their cap room. And I don't see them investing a chunk of cap room in LJ and limiting themselves in other areas.

I think the pats like to take teams draft picks and draft stars with them... not throw away picks on teams ex stars.

They "threw away" draft picks for Randy Moss and Corey Dillon.

Moss isn't exactly washed up and hes not a RB nearing the deadly age of 30. Dillon was a RB on a team that already had another good RB and the Patriots hadn't drafted Laurence Maroney in the first yet either.