Gunther's finger pointing has already begun...
 

Typical. Would expect nothing less from a guy who loves to blame everyone but himself on his failures...

This after you proclaim that you love Herm Edwards and the Cover 2 has always been a part of your scheme and that the "handcuffs" had been taken off with Herm, all while you were throwing Vermeil under the bus.

I guess Gunther really doesn't have a spine.


Yeah, so the answer I suppose would be signing all those UFA's you had on your list that you gave to Carl and proclaimed that Carl delivered. That Kendrell Bell, helluva leader Gun.

http://www.freep.com/article/2009012...mon+with+Lions

Whaaaaaaa



GTFO

he is such a freakin puzzy

seriously he has been talking shit for years and not backing it up. Every time it doesn't work he cries some sort of excuse.

:shake:

every year is gonna be THE YEAR until he starts whining about how someone else screwed it up.

to Gun's defense, I'm sure it would be annoying to work for a couple of Morons, but it was his job and he didn't do it.

Bye Bye Bitch

Gunther is a fraud and a clown

hiring him was the second worst decision next to hiring that idiot Herm....

what a cluster****..we never had a chance

When he was the head coach, his defense sucked ass.

I guess he blamed Carl then.

Who cares? Why are we so desperate for his approval? I could careless if he blames the players, coaches or Franchise.. For the last 3 years they even sucked at Fail.


Bye Gunther, get over it...

Well that didn't take long.

This guy should give a portion of each paycheck he continues to receive to the family of Derrick Thomas.

Being a DC sure is a lot easier when you have one of the all time great pass rushers.

I personally believe this guy couldn't, and won't, out-scheme anybody.

It's just that about 30 minutes ago someone joked around about how long it will take for Gun to throw Herm under the bus....

The funny thing in reading that last quote is that it is exactly what Pioli said in his news conference. I'm Glad Gunther at least took time to learn a tidbit about putting together a team from a real GM, because he sure as heck wasn't sharing those tidbits during his employment here...

Good luck in Detroit....where you actually might meet expectations.

I just think its cute that people are so willing to bash Gunter, and yes he warrants bashing, but completely excuses the tampon 2...

I see what your point but who here is liking the Tampa 2?

IMO Gun sucks and Herm and his approach sucks also.

Can't wait until both are gone... 1 down, 1 to go.

He basically confirmed all of the things that fans have been speculating about for years:

1. Herm insisted on a cover 2 and Gun wasn't a good match for that scheme.
2. The team had no veteran leadership.
3. You don't trade away your best player, especially when it is a pass rushing DE.
4. Gun and Herm are weasels that will push women and children out of their way as they head for the lifeboats.

Oh yeah, everybody here looooves the cover 2 defense.

Just saying that Gunther was part of the problem and very thankful he is gone, but the problem is deeper than just Gunther as you stated...

I forgot how much you cherrished it... My appologies for saying anything bad about it...:D

I never said that the Tampa 2 isn't the problem, but grow some balls and do something about it. We don't have the player personnel on defense to run the Tampa 2. Gun couldn't get Herm to change his mind about using it though. Chan Gailey got it across that we needed to change the offense when it wasn't working, why coudln't Gun?

:clap:

Gunther is getting a lot of blame...and I'm not saying he's the best defensive coordinator or talent evaluator in the league...but the failures of the Chiefs defense sit at the feet of Herm Edwards.

It's true, Gunther was running Herm's scheme....with the players Herm wanted. Not saying Gunther would have done better had he free reign to pick his players and run his overly aggressive stuff.....but this year is all Herm Edwards, imo.

QFT!

I will agree to this and endorse this post....

:shrug: Both are weak minded is my guess?

Just to play Devil's advocate here. Perhaps because Herm knows he is not an offensive guru but thinks he knows a lot about defense. Therefore, Herm wanted to control the defense more. I dunno, just a thought.

Agree, I was never sold on Gunther in his return.. His players flopped faster than Tyler Handsjob with nobody around him...

**** you Gunther!!! :cuss:


Alas, it does not matter what he says about the Chiefs. All I know is that he is gone and I am happy. Hopefully, Gun will master the "32" Defense in Detroit.

This does make him out to be a whiner (which i believe he is)....but, what he is saying does sound reasonable.

Very nice twisted way to look at it?

Petro's comment from earlier today is valid:

The fact that Gunther was hired shows that at least one respected, young HC believes that the defense wasn't Gun's fault, so this puts it on the doorstep of Herm Edwards.

Petro wasn't trying to excuse Gun, and neither am I, but it was an interesting comment.

It's that exact scenario that Pioli is trying to avoid.

He wants the GM, coach and coordinators to be on the same page. Carl, Herm, Gun, Solari and Gailey weren't close to being on the same page. They each wanted and had a different approach.

No way does Pioli keep Herm around.

The beauty of today is that Gunther is no longer relevant in any way.

I honestly thought Gun would wait a day or two before acting like a four year old, shows how stupid I am.

You just laid out a perfect case as to why Herm has no business being employed by this organization. If he can't put assistants around him that will help him be successful, he is as incompetent as his assistants. Herm had no plan on how to build this team and on how to build a coaching staff...

:clap:

So if the defense sucks in Detroit it will be Schwartz's fault and not Gunthers? And to reverse that logic, the fact that our 1990's defenses were good was due to Marty, not Gunther? So to summarize, Petro is arguing that Gunther's job is to collect a paycheck and let the head coach fix the defense...

That may be the case, but either way, Herm should leave because he wasn't willing to make adjustments (or see that they needed to be made) on defense. I blame Herm and Gun for this.

bingo X 1000

I would be throwing these clowns under the bus too. He was in a no win situation.

I second that sentiment.

He's a weak coach.

So glad he's gone -- about three years too late but whatever.

Gunther Cunningham can go **** himself.

He's the most worthless and overrated member of the 90's Chiefs franchise.

Quality burning right there.

Exactly.

Take the credit when things go well and blame everyone else when it goes bad.

Gunther showed his real understanding of the world when he complained about the Bears running a college defense in his first game in Chicago rather than making an adjustment that would limit their ability to keep running the same play.

RUN THE BALL AND PLAY DEFENSE! RUN THE BALL AND PLAY DEFENSE!

Doesn't mean that he isn't terrible though.

I agree with Gunther. I always suspected that the cover 2 was not his defense and he was trying to make lemonade out of crappy lemons. Gunther has some blame, but less than 50%. I'd put more than 50% on Herm. I think Gun, if he chose his own players and scheme, would have been more sucessful with the Chiefs.

Great post. I agree with this and can't wait for Herm to be shown the door. It will be interesting to hear who Herm throws under the bus once he is gone.

If he was so opposed to the defensive scheme he wouldn't have made all those comments about getting better after Vermeil left.

Track Jared Allen's ascension with the overall performance of the team. Throw in his departure. See a correlation?

He wasn't in a no-win situation. He didn't need to stay with the Chiefs when Herm informed him of the kind of defense he wanted to run.

I miss him already.

He had the chance to pick his players and we ended up with shit. If he didn't want to run the Cover 2 he could have grown a spine and left with DV.

**** Gunther.

I know. Who are we going to make fun of. We only have Herm left! Damnit Carl and Damnit Gun! Why'd you have to make us lose the butts of all of our jokes?!?!?!

All it proves is what we have wondered for so long. He was given to big of a voice from Carl. You take Carl, who thinks he is a "football man" but isn't and only hire coaches he can play puppet with. Gun Has always had trouble just doing his job and not going overboard. It's what got him fired as HC. He didn't trust anyone to deligate responsibilities and he was never wrong. Tim Grunhard said at that time it was always me me me out of Gun's mouth.

That's why when he came back from the titans he said he was bored with just being a LB coach there.

I hope Schwartz has a shock collar and extra batteries for the remote because he sure will need them. He better get Marty on speed dial if he wants to learn how to control that fools ego.

All that says or proves is that Carl and Herm have no business trying to manage a coaching staff, which is part of the job of the GM and HC.

Looks like Pioli has his mind made up on the D anyway. Gun and Gibbs are gone. Only krumrie, Michael Ketchum( a DA who was a Grad Ass. under Ferentz) and Daron Roberts(low level DA/quality control) remain. With Gun leaving the LB coach leaves as well.

It will be interesting what happens with Gailey and the O next. He brought in D'Allesandres and Modkins from GTech for their first NFL coaching jobs. Bicknell and Curl had college and only NFL europe exp. from the pro level. Price and Embree only have their pro experience under Herm as well. So you could say Gailey is the only guy who other teams actually "know" about without talking with Herm.

So special teams and D are done(krumrie probably goes anytime now) and let's see what happens on O. If that's the way it is I bet they are letting Herm sit around to stew to see if he resigns, which is doubtful

Gunther never had any conviction. He went back to the team with the GM that fired him over the internet.

I hope he keeps talking and gives tidbits up of what went wrong with the Chiefs. It's nice to know that the fans were correct about a lot of their observations and guesses the past three years.

This is true.

The new regime can't start fast enough.

That old crazy bastard Al Davis knew what he was doing demoting that egomaniac to DLcoach before he first came here.

Do you have a job?

I have been one of the most critical, when it comes to Gunther.

But I have to agree with him on this. Herm insisted on his defense, the cover 2, which has been said to be obsolete.

Also, I can't blame him for being a little ticked at losing the only impact player this defense has had, in quite a while.

That being said, I am so glad he is gone!

I understand the sentiment that he was handcuffed by being forced to run a cover two.

But I also saw how well Ron Rivera adapted to the cover two for the Bears, after working for Jim Johnson in Philly, and how he got improved results from the Charger defense after replacing Ted Cottrell mid season in San Diego.

An actual coach can coach, regardless of scheme.

A bad coach makes excuses and points fingers.

What he's saying is true. Our defense the last year JA was here was the best defense we've had since like 2001.

:bravo:
That's reptastic.

You talking about Herm or Gunther?

They were perfect for each other...

The reality is that Gunther is a team guy, a loyal guy. He is now free to answer things honestly.

It would be hard to sell the players on Herm's defense if he is publicly bashing it.

Herm and Gunther like each other, they just have different opinions. The defense was a little bit of both of their styles and in the end, it had no identity and it failed.

I can't argue with any of that. I grew weary of Gunther the first time around, more so when he was made HC.

Lots of empty promises, one after another. His coaching style (yelling obcentities) has gotten old as well.

But adding Herm to the mix, just made the thing worse.

Too bad Carl didn't leave a year earlier, Jared Allen may still be a Chief.

But that is all behind us now, thankfully, and there is a lot to look forward to.

Gun knows defense but he has to have premium talent to run his style of defense.

We need a DC that can teach because Gun can't apparently. Our defense was just as bad at the end of the year as it was at the start. That means the staff taught our guys nothing.

Viewing this from 1,500 miles away, I'm trying to think of the last time the Chiefs had good talent on defense to work with. Other than Jared Allen, I'm thinking the cupboard has been pretty bare since those Derrick Thomas teams.

I could give a rat's ass about Gunther either way, but I'd think you'd need more than one guy to run an effective defense. In fact, I know you need more than one guy, becuase I've seen how being one or two guys short in key positions undermines the entire defnese, even for a guy like Belichick.

I don't think the Tampa Two is obsolete ... but it does requires getting all of your pressure from the front four. That lets your CBs jump routes and attack the receivers, because they konw they have safeties behind them to make the play. If you don't have a talented front four (like we didn't last year), it's just like any zone and there's plenty of time for the QB to find holes. If Herm stays, we have no choice BUT to draft more defensive linemen. It's the only way the scheme works.

Previously, I've been willing to give Herm a fourth year, but his coaching hires are much more damning to me than his in-game coaching. He kept an aggressive d-coordinator whose heart wasn't in the Tampa Two out of loyalty, instead of bringing in a guy who drinks the Tampa Two Kool-aid and would be excited to run it. He gave Mike Solari a chance because he thought he deserved it, instead of finding a guy he knew could run his offense. The only major coaching hire he's done right is bringing in Gailey to give us some life. It just shows how organizationally screwed up we've been over the past five years, and makes the hire of an outside all the more important.

Pioli is playing this pretty good though. While going through evaluations he can at least get the coaches side of what they were asking the players to do, in their own words. He can piece that together with what he sees on film while evaluating the players.

While this goes on he realizes they sure don't work well together stabbing each other in the back on the way out. In the end that all points back to the HC. It would tell Clark that he has had him fooled all along, assuming Clark still wants Herm to return which i'm not so sure of.

Name one defense that doesn't have to have premium talent to be good

Im really ****in sick n tired of hearing this over and over and over again.
"Gun has to have probowlers to run his type of scheme blah blah blah"
Thats the most reeruned shit I've ever heard.


ON OFFENSE: YOU NEED GOOD PLAYERS TO BE SUCESSFUL
ON DEFENSE: YOU NEED GOOD PLAYERS TO BE SUCESSFUL

The last good player we had one defense since JA was DT, and we traded JA away, great move there. That couldnt have blown up in our faces anymore than it did as we set the record for fewest sacks in NFL history as JA outsacked the entire ****in team, had more safeties, prob had just around the amount of same neg yard plays. The only good thing about the defense last season was the development of the young secondary. THATS IT.

The reason why our offense was so good under DV AS is because he had one of the best OLines in recent memory in the NFL, 4/5 players on the starting Oline were Pro Bowlers. If you have a good Oline, you can have a good offense with a couple playmakers here and there.

Part of the lack of talent was Gunther's fault. Back in year 2 of Gun under Vermeil, Gunther listed the players he wanted and he got them - Bell, Hall, Surtain, etc.

Do you think the Cardinals defense is really good? If they hadn't made it through the wildcard game would you honestly think they had a lot of talent?

Rep.

Good point, Herm has set an example of back stabbing and throwing others under the bus.
It had to happen, once Herm started deflecting the blame, others were going to do the same. But of course, Gunther has always done it.
Accountability left with DV.

That's a fine line. Everyone in the NFL has talent. That's why "on any given sunday" holds true, unless you're the Detroit Lions. The key is to put your talent in a position to be successful, or bring in talent that will help you be successful. Gunther was unable to do either. He had five years of drafts where he was unable to develop anyone of note. In fact, one prime example is Kawika Mitchell, who blossomed once he got away from Gunther. I wouldn't be surprised to see DJ become an all pro now that Gunther is gone. In terms of bringing in talent, it was famously proclaimed by Gunther himself that he personally went to Carl Peterson and gave him a list of players to go get him and Carl delivered on what he wanted. He promised that Kendrell Bell and Sammy Knight and co would turn this defense around, provide the leadership, etc. We still sucked. So to me, across the board, under two totally different head coaches, with two different assistant coaching staffs under him, he failed, and failed spectacularly...

JA didn't want to be in KC. Why is that so hard for some to understand? He didn't like it here. Period. He played his card and the Chiefs then played theirs. Get over it.

Gunther Cunningham is a disgrace. He ran HIS defense in 2004 upon his return, and it was a complete disaster. Far worse than Robinson's 2003 unit. The next year, I do think Vermeil took away some of his power, because it was more of a basic defense in 2005, and not quite as bad.

Anytime one of Gunther's defense sucks, it's always someone else's fault.

I'm not surprised. That said, I don't think that Gunther's scheme is bad... he's just not a good judge of talent and a poor motivator. If your only move is to drop 4 f bombs per second in order to get a guy moving, not everyone responds well to it. I don't think he's very realistic about the talent of the guys he has, either. A lot of players in his defenses are playing out of position or utilized poorly. Apparently he made an impression on Schwartz, though.

One positive that everyone's overlooked here is that had we hired Schwartz, Gunther probably would have stuck around. He's moved on, and so should we.

This.

Word :clap:

Gunther is SUCH a fraud for totally changing his scheme to something he wasn't comfortable with. :rolleyes: GTFOH.

We all know/knew Gun loves crushing the QB for you homers to think otherwise because he's saying what really went down is just plain stupid. [/Gaz]

He wasn't that good when we had JA so I don't feel bad for him at all.

Here's what it said the expectations for Gun when he came in (from Wiki):

"Cunningham was hired again to revitalize a defense that had finished near or at the bottom of the overall rankings since Schottenheimer and Cunningham departed."

He didn't do that. Gun's a bust.