Question about the Army Reserve
 

My 17 year old son is a junior in High School and has every intention of going in to the military upon graduation next year. I just got off the phone with my wife who was telling me about the recruiters being at the house and giving my son a pre-test of some kind. He had 25 minutes to complete the test. He finished in 15 minutes and only got one out of 50 questions wrong. The recruiter was rather impressed.

My question has to do with what my wife said they are wanting to do going forward. There is talk of my son "working" for the Army Reserve this summer but returning for his senior year of high school. After graduation he would then go through basic (that may be what the plan is for this coming summer, not sure), then a 3 month training period followed by college. This is a 6 year commitment for him.

Is it normal for a 17 year old to be going through basic training (his birthday is eraly July)? Is it normal for this to happen when there is still a year of HS left before graduation? Basically, is this normal at all? I have no military experience myself nor does anyone in my immediate family.

Thanks for any input, I am just being a concerned parent

I had a 17 year old kid in my unit who was in the Delayed Entry Program.

Basically, he continued going to school like normal but was already enlisted. He was still required to do the one weekend a month and 2 weeks a year.

The pretest he took was for the ASFAB. It was just to give the recruiter an idea of what score he would get on the actual test. The results can be used by the recruiter to begin MOS placement (basically what jobs he qualifies for) and lets the recruiter know if your son needs to study more for the test or if he is good to go as is.

Keep in mind... this is what was happening back in 03 so I don't know if this is the way it still is.

Yeah, we are supposed to all meet with the recruiter next Monday. I just thought I would learn a few things first. Thanks!

If this is the deal I think it is, it's a good one in my opinion. There is a new program out that GUARANTEES that your son would not be deployed (sent overseas) for his first two years of college; however, he does have to do a 6 year commitment.

As to the 17 and just a Junior thing, its called DEP, or the Delayed Enlistment Program and yes it is common. Seeing as how he is under 18, a parent will have to approve and sign with him on the contract. The contract is non-binding though clear up until he leaves for Basic Training no matter how much the recruiter tries to tell you other wise.

Make sure to get any and ALL promises the recruiter makes in writing on his contract. Also, the test they gave him was probably the practice ASVAB, which is a very short watered down version. The pretest is actually a pretty good indication of how he will do on the real thing though. I think I got a 98 on the practice test and got a 96 on the real thing.

Also, just so you know here is some contact information regarding the "College First Enlistment Program" that my VA rep sent me a few days ago.

"Carol" is our VA rep, and SSG Burl is apparently in charge of Tuition Assistance for the state of Missouri. Since your son has never served, he should be eligible for this program.

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Carol,

I just had a call from a soldier currently on Active Duty at Fort Leonard
Wood. He said you had spoken to him about the opportunity to join the guard
and not be deployable for 2 years. That is an enlistment program "College
First Enlistment Option" that is available to non-prior service applicants
only.

So, in this case, it will not work for the soldier coming off active duty and
joining the National Guard.

v/r
Mike

SSG Michael Buhr
MONG Federal TA Manager
Comm. - 573-638-9500 ext. 7644
PBX - 7644
Fax - 573-638-9620
Email - michael.buhr@us.army.mil
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Interesting. I am in Texas but I expect that should make little to no difference, I am sure the same rules apply here as there.

Thanks for the input!

dont let him do it, he might get raped.

I joined the National Guard right after I turned 17, which was on February 1st. I went to a few drills (some of them were like mini-basic training and some were with my regular unit) and then went to basic training in June after school was out. I was done and home by August. I continued to go to weekend drills during my senior year. I then went back to Georgia for my AIT (the actual job training) after I graduated.

There were some nice advantages to doing it that way. I was a higher pay grade than normal in both basic and in AIT because I had been in longer. Also, by the time I was done training, I only had four years left of my six year commitment.

One downside was that I wasn't in the same kind of shape going into AIT as I was coming out of basic. There is no way to maintain that kind of fitness regime outside of basic. I was way behind the folks that just got out of basic.

Also, I had to get my hair shaved off twice. :D

I remember some ding dong eating a whole bottle of aspirin in basic. Another jerknut ate a couple fistfuls of Tide. I loved basic. But this was way back when the Drills where still kicking the shit out of recruits in order to weed out the slackers and wussies. Now I hear that they give you massages and aromatherapy sessions. My personal favorite was the gas chamber in basic. Goddamn that was funny! Guys literally screaming to God and the mothers thinking that they were dying. Snot and blood and tears and spit flowing out their eyes, mouths and noses. Guys puking all over the place. They kept me in the chamber for about two minutes just to make sure I wasn't holding my breath. I remember the Drill asking "Why ain't you puking boy?!" "Because I'm not a pussy Drill Sergeant!"

Man, I wish everyday in the Army was like Basic. I hated that motor pool.

Even if he's set on Army Reserve you still need to shop the other services. Recruiters are basically used car salesmen in uniform so, well, you know.

Yeah, that was great, except my mask leaked, so I got it from the moment I stepped into the bunker. :rolleyes:

Make sure to ask about the stripes for buddies program... if they are even still doing it.

Most times, in order just to get someone in the door, they will bump up the starting rank to E-3 (PFC). Even if they don't actually know other people going in at the same time a recruiter will sign off on the paperwork stating that your boy went in with a few buddies just to get someone to sign.

Better pay off the bat and less wait time to NCO (Non-Commissioned Officer).

The program you described is called the Split Train Option. Not a bad program but he is really going to have to push himself in his Senior year to maintain an acceptable fitness level before going back for AIT. The best thing I can recommend is for you to ask a lot of questions and make sure any promises are in writing. If it isn't in writing....its a rumor.

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner! No doubt, every branch of the service is frothing at the mouth to get ahold have 17, 18, 19 year olds. Be selective.

What many MANY people don't really understand is who do you think fights our wars? Called up Guard and Reserve units of the Army, after the Marines have come in. Plus, they have to wait until 65 for retirement benefits, and are basically married to the Guard/Reserve for life. My son-in-law is in the Iowa Army Reserve, and is deploying to Iraq in May. It's his 2nd trip. This time he's leaving 1 month after the birth of his first baby.

I'm US Air Force retired. I spent 20 years on Active Duty, and started receiving full retirement benefits at 39. Now, I'm working as a contractor at the same job at over 3 times the pay! In the Active Duty Air Force, I was never put in harms way. During the Desert Storm & Desert Shield, and many other small conflicts...my skills and duties was still required at my current base. Active Duty troops keep their normal jobs/duties, and the Guard/Reserve units are called up and sent to fight in the wars.

Even the Navy is safer, they fight from a boat in the mediterrian. Not going to hit a mine or have a car bomb out there.

Marines sleep under the stars, Army sleeps in tents, and the Air Force sleeps in town at the hotel. Might sound funny to you...but, it's true.

Uh...no. Popular propaganda, but no.

Marines are 'first in' when the action is within 50 miles of a beach head. They weren't first in Desert Storm (BDE from 82d first on the ground in Kuwait, and an Army Brigade from VII Corps led the ground attack), they weren't first in Afghanistan (Army and USAF SOF, followed by Rangers, then 10th MTN and 101st) and when OIF kicked off in March '03- V Corps spearheaded the attack.

Regardless of the service, it all depends on your MOS regarding sleeping under the stars/tents/hotels.

In the Active Duty Air Force, I was never put in harms way.

No offense, but maybe that is why you have an incorrect perception.

we have kids in my unit doing this all the time, this post is almost 100% true, except; while in the delayed entry program they only have to "sign in" for half the drills the regular reserve guys/gals do. I have one in High School assigned to my team. I don't think he can come to every drill even if he wanted to. Until after high school.

That’s the way it was in the ‘80’s when I joined so you’re probably not far off.

Excellent information guys, thanks! :thumb:

Ummm.....afraid not. It all depends on your MOS. I've had plenty of friends who have gone in and been there with the Army "in harms way" and I've had plenty of friends who have never been over during war time.

What was your MOS?

Get EVERYTHING they promise in writing. Thats all that will matter down the road, what he can show in the contract. Be very clear in which mos he goes in under. If he goes in as "X" they can assign him where they want, it does not mean he can go where he wants to go or do what job he wishes to do.

Recruiters are pretty much used car salesmen.


My brother was active duty. He was told he could try for Rangers right after airborne. During airborne, they said "you're going to a cav unit, no Rangers for you". He did his time. He's been out of Active Army for 1.5 years. Recruiters have been hounding with a "sign up for the reserves, you won't be deployed for 2yrs" line...well, there are caviates, like at the end of your 2yrs, you get stop lossed, assigned somewhere else and GO.

In his case, he's started a business, built a life and a client base and wasn't interested. He was recalled anyway, will be assigned to some west coast national Guard unit, and heading most likely for Afganistan this spring.

Reserve component retirement begins at 60, not 65. It may start earlier based on months deployed. I have no clue what you mean by "married to the Guard/Reserve for life".

If personal safety is the goal, the military is probably not a good idea, period. The Navy and Air Force personnel in theater are just as much in danger of being hit with a mortar as anyone else is. This has been going on a long time and regardless of service, everyone gets at least one turn.

Unless things have changed, the military has this picky little phrase, "At the convienence of the US Government" or something similar. Meaning that they can do with you whatever they want.

Back in the days of the draft, I had plently of notice of being drafted. I wanted the Air Force, but the ole man said no (ex-waist gunner on B-17s over Germany). Go Navy as they always had a dry bed and a hot meal. It turned out to be true, but what he left out is that most of the time, they were in constant motion; up and down and side to side.

He should go where he will learn a skill that he could use when he gets back to the real world.

My moms man turned 18 on the plane to vietnam. Did two tours with the A/B Rangers.

My dad was already in grad. school at UMKC when he joined the Army and went to vietnam. ill never forget he always said he wasnt gung-ho at 20/21 but that the young kids were.

My dad was a super hard drinker, a legend really. he died at 51. I cant shake it that he drank that hard because of the intense combat he saw.
Same thing with my moms man now, was a hard drinker,met mom sought help but still has his own cross to bear.
God bless em both.

witha war on its something to strongly consider steering him in a diffrent direction.-JMO-

He is young, dumb and full of cum if you know what I mean. He is 17 and fancies himself tough and indestructible. There is no way I could stop him once he hits 18, he intends to join up. I am just doing my best to convince him to go into intel or something that may keep him a little safer.

Clearmont, what did you mean about being married to the Reserves for life? That statement concerns me a lot.

I was the same way. my dad did everything possible to send me in another direction than the military any direction ather than.
The Afgan front is gonna heat up. make damn sure your boy understands this.
good luck guy. God bless em if he joins.
Respect.

I can attest to the fact that the demand for 155mm Self Propelled Artillery Gunners is nil in the civilian world. :cuss:

Ah, you were a “cannon cocker”. 16C, Ft. Bliss?

Yea Hydrae, talk long with him about getting a job that translates into civilian life. Military service looks good on a resume but it looks better with a military education and experience in the field he’s applying for.

Artillery is for pussies. Biggest bunch of slackasses I ever saw in the military, other than the entire Air Force.

Although, if you go infantry, there's always the chance that you can come out apply at a civilian contractor like Black Hawk and make some decent coin. I read somewhere that the base Black Hawk operator in Iraq was pulling down $516,000 annually, and getting paid in Iraq, where they aren't taxing that income.

However, real war changes people. I personally know two woman who had fiancees that were deployed over to Iraq for combat duty, and called off the weddings when they returned. Told me that they weren't the same people. It will screw a person up. In fact, the biggest problem the military faces right now is the PTSS problems after people are coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan. It's a bad war, in a bad situation and there's not many things a person is going to pull out of the service right now that are positives. The suicide rate is astronomical for combat veterans, as well as massive increases in family violence, abuse, etc. I enjoyed my time in the military, but I can tell you that I would have a hard time accepting deployment to that mess in the Middle East right now (I am very happy about not going ROTC after my enlistment period ended or accepting the offer to attend West Point Prep while I was in) and I sure as hell wouldn't have enlisted during this time. It's a very, very ugly situation.

Actually, while you are essentially correct, the 82d was the first CU on the ground...there were many of us there already (DIA) who did the actual groundwork for the initial invasion (recon - mapping - target desigination, as well as civilian targets - Politicos, etc) - 2nd spc opns det (DIA) - along with the 4th and the 3rd SEAL Team and the 2d Ranger BN. Followed closely by the 7th Spc Fcs and members of the 3rd Spc Fcs BN. Not to be outdone, there were additionally the jerk-offs from the CIA, as well.

A lot goes into an "invasion" - long before combat forces are dropped on the ground.

Thanks for all of your service and sacrifice!

CWO 97B (ret)

Suicide rate admittedly, is at an all time high. Now, lets peel the onion a little bit; how many of those suicides were from servicemen serving in a direct combat role? As in, how many of those killed themselves because of their experiences in direct-fire combat? Actually, the answer is counter-intuitive.

Secondly, re-enlistments are at an all time high. My battalion in Iraq was at 100% rate. The Army wide statistics show that 70,000 Soldiers reenlisted last year, 12.2% above the retention goal. More than the recruiting goal, this shows that young men and women are choosing to stay even though they are fighting "a bad war in a bad situation" as you call it.

Your biased opinion is contrary to the facts. The military, although not for all, is a tremendous opportunity for someone to learn about themselves regardless of the MOS.

Roger, first conventional unit was the ready brigade from the 82d in Kuwait. Additionally, if you are talking about Desert Storm, it was only A Company 1st Ranger Battalion (2d Ranger BN did not go to DS) that deployed. They arrived in theater 12 February 1991 to 15 April 1991. :D

I am sure you have some kick-ass stories to tell about those days!

Thanks and back at you!

13B, Bamberg, Germany and Ft. Knox, Ky. Spent some field time at Bliss though.

I went into the Army when I was 20 years old for 3 years and I had a great time. What makes one persons experience better than another is the job you choose. The most important question you should be asking is what school should you select.

I went to the Air Force, Navy and the Marine recruiters first, none of them would guarantee my school choice in writing, only that I could select a category or area of training. On top of that, they wanted a four year commitment. The Army gave me my school selection in writing for only a three year enlistment. I selected Air Traffic Controller (93H).

My recruiter knew I would need a score of 130 on my AFQT test (Armed Forces Qualification Test) for that school. Once I had taken the test and it was confirmed I had a high enough score, he sent me to McDill AFB near my home in Tampa for a Class II Flight Physical because that would be necessary later. Once that was passed, he got me the exact start date for ATC school at Ft. Rucker, Alabama. He then realized I had a couple of extra months before I would need to start basic, so he asked if I wanted to go delayed entry, which I did. So I went to Jacksonville AFEES and was sworn in, which started my time towards rank, and then I went back home and waited for two months. However, I spent that time preparing for basic. I also realized a few months later that I had an exceptional recruiter.

I can say without a doubt army aviation is an excellent choice. It's a field that most other people in other branches know very little about. I served during Vietnam when the Army had over 2 million soldiers, yet only 1500 soldiers had the 93H MOS, and in fact we had just one sergeant at the Pentagon that handled all 93H orders and most of us knew him by name and could reach him by phone. Plus everywhere I was stationed I was under the Airfield Commander or a Tower Chief and not some troop command type first sergeant. I also made rank fast, I was a Spec-5 in 14 months. I also received pro-pay of $100 a month extra, also separate rations pay since we worked all shifts. The job had a lot of extra benefits and I would highly recommend taking a look at the various jobs offered in Army Aviation.

Bamberg sounds familiar, about where is it?
I was in Wurzburg for about 3 years, a year in training at Ft. Bliss before that.

Don't give me that bullshit. I've been in the military. I've lived in military towns. (Spend 13 years in Colorado Springs and you'll know what a military town really is - at every level of the military. I have acquaintances ranging from low level enlisted to O7's, from educational roles to combat.) And you've got a military who has basically ignored or, more accurately, tried to sweep under the rug, suicide, domestic violence, crime rates for the past seven years. The Department of Veteran affairs has virtually ignored any potential post-traumatic stress syndromes associcated with servicemen and women that have served in the various military branches, particularly those serving in combat or combat support roles, since the invasions and subsequent occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq.

In 2008 active duty suicides were at an all-time high, up 11% from 2007, and actually eclipsed the civilian suicide rate for the first time ever. However, most suicides by military personnel occurred more than a year after they returned home from duty. And considering that this is from a 2005 study: "At least 120 Americans who served in the U.S. military killed themselves per week in 2005, CBS News learned in a five-month investigation into veteran suicides. That's 6,256 veteran suicides in one year, in 45 states.", it's substantially worse now, where even the usually truculent Army admits to 2008 being the highest ever for suicides. As well, the Omvig Bill that was passed in 2007 which was supposed to help the VA prevent potential suicides has been made worthless in that it no longer requires the VA to screen patients for suicide risk factors or track veterans that were deemed to be "at risk" of committing suicide.

So, tell me if my "biased opinion" is contrary to the facts.

And the fact regarding re-enlistment is that we are in an exceedingly bad economy and the military represents one of the few employers happy to make good offers to newcomers as well as current employees. I personally know a guy who was National Guard, got deployed to Iraq and "re-upped" over there just for the $100,000 that the Army gave him, in cash, and tax free (because if you stay in while in Iraq, it's tax free money). Not many companies out there that are giving those types of signing bonuses, especially to non-educated employees.

And as far as an opportunity to learn about yourself, I guess if you want to learn if you have the moral fiber required to put a round through some "suspected" combatant while occupying a foreign country in order to safeguard it's geological resources for American corporate interests, I guess that's a hard lesson to learn. I would think that someone could learn a lot more about themselves and other cultures by serving in the Peace Corps or the like, but some people I guess need to learn about themselves dealing with the intricacies of international imperialism by learning how to pull a trigger when you've got the barrel of a gun pointed at another human being.

Personally, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find military personnel using forums/bulletin boards like this for recruiting tools. The Army is great! You get to learn about yourself! We pay for college! Yeah team!

You can kiss my ass.

Thanks guys, this is the 17 year old dumb-ass who will join. No matter the costs.

Well....good luck and keep your head down. You'll always have my respect.

When you come back with no legs, or a missing arm, or half your face, or you have to wear a colostomy bag for the rest of your life (chicks dig those) because you got hit with an IED, will you let us know if your opinion has changed?

Bamberg is about 20-30 Kilometers north of Nurenberg. Been to Wurzburg a few times. I think Wurzburg is around 100 Kilometers to the west of Bamberg. Good times.

You really are a douchebag.....you know that?

Saccogoo,

As the brother of an Airborne Soldier who did a tour in Iraq, and is going to Afganistan after his recall, I'd like to tell you to go fist yourself.

You're a douchebag's douchebag.

Good luck to you and thank you for your desire to serve.

My daughter joined the National Guard during her junior year too. Went to basic that summer and then AIT after graduation. She has been in 2-1/2 years and loves it.
She deployed to Iraq this past October. Don't listen to the poster that is bringing all the bitterness. While I am sure at one time the military ignored major problems associated with soldier life, that is not the case any more.
During the six months prior to her units deployment, we attended full day workshops that covered everything from relationship issues, suicide, money, communication, etc. They are fully aware of the stresses and sacrifices on not only soldiers but their families as well.

Oh, so you would rather have me paint a rosy picture for the kid telling him that it's going to be like the best thing ever? Do you know how many people have been killed, let alone maimed since this little slice of heaven called Afghanistan and Iraq happened?

4,171 dead, and 30,182 injured (and that's not including the last six months of figures)

You better ****ing believe people die over there. And you better ****ing believe that even more get brutally maimed. In fact, this war, because of the advancements of medicine/surgery have much less people dying from wounds that they would have died from even 15 years ago. However, that also means you have substantially more veterans walking around without arms, legs, etc.

If you want to call me a douchebag for being honest, then so be it. But you are only being ignorant by ignoring the possibility of something like that happening to a person who is deployed in a combat zone. And since we are an occupying Army, that basically means that all of Iraq and Afghanistan can be considered combat zones.

And that's why military suicides are at an all time high in 2008? Because it's not the case anymore? IT IS THE CASE! Right now!

And I'm not bitter. I'm being honest.

I am not arguing that. I just don't think it is a fair assessment to claim they are turning their heads at problems associated with soldiers and their families.

Seconded... anyone who has put time in on Active Duty flight lines during surges is not a "slack ass." I support all branches of the military and feel a healthy rivalry is great, but reality fails to shine through in so many cases.

During my time at multi branch bases it was constantly the Navy or Army lagging behind, or on the sidelines puking during readiness runs. Is that indicitive of the entire Navy or Army? **** no.

Yes, it is quite safe to assume that the Army and Marines are going to have greater odds of seeing combat, but do you really expect every member of the Air Force to be on the front lines? Do you want our bombers and fighters to be that close to the fight? Hell no that is the advantage America has over so many countries, we can strike from halfway around the world before they know what hit them.

God bless, good luck, and give 'em hell.

Here's a little bit of the exchange between Amy Goodman and Mark Benjamin regarding military suicide and murders from Benjamin's article of February 9, 2009. Here's a link to the article, which is a series: http://www.salon.com/news/special/co...tro/index.html

--------

"Amy Goodman: Well, the news website Salon.com just completed an in-depth investigation into a rash of suicides and murders since 2004 at one army base, the Fort Carson base in Colorado. They found most of the deaths were preventable and could have been avoided, but for the neglect and inadequate care returning combat veterans got from the Army.

Mark Benjamin: An interesting twist, and I think this is unfortunately indicative of some of the attitude at Fort Carson, before Adam died, he painted on the wall his suicide note in big black letters, black paint, where he blamed the Army for his death. He blamed the mistreatment for his death, in this suicide note. “The Army took my life,” he wrote. And his mother flew out there soon after the suicide attempt and found that the Army was responding to the suicide attempt in part by charging Adam with destruction of government property. When his mother found out, she was so angry she half-jokingly offered to paint over the suicide note if they would drop the charges. The Army took her up on it, gave her a can of paint. She painted over her own son’s suicide note, and the Army still charged Adam anyways.

What’s interesting is that when we looked at these deaths—and again, there’s a lot of focus on the suicides in the Army because, as you may have mentioned, there were more suicides, more soldiers died of suicide in the month of January 2009 than died in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. But there’s also these murders going on, as well. When we talked to the Army, basically what they did is they gave us a list of initiatives that they are undertaking to prevent suicide: you know, hiring more counselors, putting together hotlines, putting out memos that are so that people get better diagnosed. But when you go to a place like Fort Carson and you hang out on the base and you meet with the soldiers and you walk the barracks and you go to the hospital and so on and so forth, they just don’t seem to be happening. I mean, these—they look good on paper. You know, when I interviewed the Army, the initiatives that they list sound terrific. They’re just not happening out in the field. And as a result, you know, an unknown number of soldiers are involved in violence, are not getting treatment, they’re self-medicating, and they’re acting out against themselves and against innocent people."

------

Fair assessment or not?

Well, I see that when I told him he could read the thread he decided to post as well.

Gotta love kids. It is better than killing them. :D

Someone should tell him about the physical and the vaccination shots...

Sad story. The problems at Fort Carson are not new news. Accountability would go a long way here.

I still have that scar on my shoulder! Sonsabitches.

As well, I spent five days in the hospital at Ft. Riley after the vaccinations. I guess the typhoid/yellow fever/plague shot didn't set well with me. Between the 104 degree fever, the dumbass nurse trying to shove a 16 gauge IV up my arm (damn thing looked like it was a equine veterinary needle) about 13 times without hitting the vein, the hallucinations, etc., it was a most pleasant experience.

PTSD is a huge problem, and the facts speak for themselves; you are correct. But then again no shit wildman, I still serve. I dont need you or an article written by some hack with an axe to grind to tell me that. Great statistics from above- can the vaunted CBS news, or you, for that matter prove that all 6,256 veterans who killed themselves in 2005 served in Afganistan or Iraq? There are about 24 million vets in the U.S.
And to claim that the ONLY reason us witless fucks reenlist in a combat zone is for the money, and we have nothing better to do with our lives is arrogant, condescending, and shows how blissfully unaware you are of the motivations Soldiers have. You know nothing of what stirs a warrior to serve his country during wartime. Nothing.
You want to use google-fu and post stats on military suicide rates, murder, and drug use; then knock yourself out. But to try and dissuade a person from joining because of these reasons (your personal views on the war, notwithstanding) insults them as well. This is a thread about joining the Army Reserve; go troll in the D.C forum.

I bit my tongue long enough trying to ignore you. For you Saccogoo to have the nerve to say that "Artillery is for pussies. Biggest bunch of slackasses I ever saw in the military, other than the entire Air Force." But you can't handle a few vaccinations! ROFL Why don't you just STFU you freakin pussy! :cuss:

And for all of you that have served, I salute you no matter what branch or occupation. We are all on the the same team.

For Hydrae's 17 year old, thank you for what you are about to do. Take it seriously, it is serious business. That is the advice I gave to my nephew who has done 3 tours in Iraq. One tour with the 2nd ACR and 2 with the 101st AB.

I like that. Warrior. Gets you off, doesn't it? So, tell me Mr. Warrior, what stirs you to serve in the military for the past couple of years during our occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan? I'd really like to know what your motivations are, especially considering that as it stands, over 4,000 Americans dead, over 30,000 wounded, as well as 250,000 plus Iraqi's dead (and that's on the low side estimate - there are numerous international agencies that put that total over 1,000,000). So, since I have no idea what stirs a "warrior" to serve in wartime (although, since I myself have served (infantry), my brother has served, my sister-in-law lost her father in Vietnam, my two uncles served in Vietnam, one of my best friends has a purple heart and a bronze star from his time in Vietnam, and my grandfather served in WWII, I'm sure I have no clue whatsoever) what's your motivation? What stirs you?

I never insulted the original poster, nor did I ever try to dissuade them. An adult should be capable of making their own decisions - as long as they have all the facts regarding that decision. However, having a child (and a 17 year old person is, by the very definition, a child) hounded by military recruiters in an effort to get them to serve in the military, especially while that military is in a current state of armed conflict, is a different story altogether. And that's what the original poster was asking.

I'll offer you my opinion, and that's all it is, my opinion.

"married to the Reserves". You do this for your whole life, if you want. A weekend a month and a couple weeks in the summer...until you're called up and deployed to the war. Your benefits package isn't as good, health insurance is "Tricare Reserve Select". For me, that's comparable to "Tricare Standard", which doesn't have premiums, but, you have higher percentages to pay for procedures and co-pays. While I was on Active Duty, the pre-natel care was free, and it cost $24.00 to have my first son, and $42 to have my second. My daughter and her Army Reserve husband have been told it'll cost over $2200 to birth their baby with Tricare Reserve Select. He's hoping to get his deployment orders (which will place him on active duty = Tricare Prime = a couple hundred for delivery) soon enough to change his status.

But, the point of married to the reserves is, you have your other job, and you're also in the Reserves. You're going along with your life, and then you have to go get a haircut, shave off the beard, and go to drill for the weekend. Your wife, kids, job are put on hold because you have to go, no option. You leave for a couple weeks drill, same thing. Off you go, and your boss has to let you, your family watches you leave again. And you do this for your entire adult life if you want to take it to retirement. Even if you earn 'Active Duty' credit, you retire with pension once you're 60.

I've been retired with pension and full benefits since I was 39. And, I'm done! No weekends, no summer drill, no deploying to war, no haircuts, no beard trimming, no anybody telling me where to live. How much more money as pension do you think I'll get from 39 until death than someone who's pension doesn't start until 60?

The Air Force started me in Satellite communications, then they moved me into Telecommunications which later became Telecommunications/Computer Operations, and finally just Computers. They taught me computers, and now I have a 2nd career as a Computer Contractor, still working for the Air Force but make ridiculous money for a farm kid from NW Missouri. Over 70K! Plus, my full pension. Now, I mean no disrespect to anyone...my son-in-law is a transportation guy, truck driver in the Reserves. He has had a terrible time getting a decent job in the civilian world, the best he's done is a Miller Lite Route driver...not bad, but not big $$$. Once again, meaning no disrespect, if your 'Infantry' how will that translate to a civilian job? Security guard? Not big $$$ at all. The military trains you to fight, kill and how to keep from being killed...great experience, but doesn't translate to civilian life once your skills aren't needed.

During my 20 year career, I started in Texas (as all AF guys do), then to California, then Nebraska, next Alaska (1 year 'overseas' remote), back to Nebraska, then to Vegas for 4 years and finishing near St. Louis. NEVER was I, as a computer guy, placed in harms way...although, my support job was just as important to them in war as in peace.

Sure, there are Air Force Specialties that put you in the middle of things, Forward Air Controllers, Pararescue, Explosive Ordinance Disposal, and Security forces. There's also Mobile Communications guys. But, generally speaking you're talking about support work.

So, I joined the military, was Active Duty for 20 years, with better pay and was trained with a great job that translated to my second career. And, I was done and drawing a pension at 39. The military wasn't a part time job for my entire adult life while I waited until 60 to draw a pension.

My daughter and her husband are expecting a baby on April 4th. In the 2nd week of May he leaves for training in Indiana which is his 2nd deployment & activation to the war, then off to Iraq in June/July. She's going to be alone the entire first 1 & 1/2 years of their new baby's life. The "it's only a weekend a month, couple weeks in the summer, and a lot of college money" is BS as far as I'm concerned, it's a lifetime commitment, at poor pay, and yeah some college money. But, generally all branches of the military have programs to pay for some tuition re-imbursement, 10K to join the Air Force, and while you're on Active Duty you have 100% tuition assistance, and you have the GI Bill.

I'm just as proud of my Air Force career and the support I provided (the Generals/decision makers use data on their COMPUTERS to decide how/where to deploy forces, drop bombs, the intel of where the bad guys are at) without being shot at.

I have every respect for those willing to go in harms way and do the mission. Bless you! Please be safe. But, there are other ways to serve.

I think the point of my original reply was that few understand/believe that the Guard/Reserve are the primary fighters of this war. A unit is called up from here or there, activated, trained, sent to the war. Then, rotated home and another Reserve unit activated. Check the death scrolls, I have. The reserve guys are fighting this war while, generally speaking, the active duty guys are supporting, just like always. Think about that for a minute. "it's only a weekend a month, a couple weeks in the summer, and a whole lot of help with my college money"...and, being activated, deployed repeatedly to the war, being shot at and all that entails (injury, physically & mentally), leaving the family behind for a year or better at a time.

I've meant no disrespect to any person serving in the Reserves or Guard, on the contrary. You're the ones fighting and I respect that a lot. You're also not getting paid enough for your commitment. Bless you, be safe!

Getting back to this late. But thought it deserved a response.

Yep; one who serves honorably as a professional soldier in combat is a warrior. It doesn't get me off. It is a title.
So you have friends and family members that served in World War II and Vietnam, and some of them did not make it back, or were wounded. Some of them, from what you say were awarded the Bronze Star Medal. And you served as an infantryman. I respect that.
But you, do not know what motivates those in combat. You experienced life as a grunt, but not in combat. To know is to have been there, and done it. Knowing someone, or being related to someone, does not equate to knowing. Hearing stories about putting body parts in human remains pouches does not equate to doing it, and ruining your uniform and boots with bodily fluids of your comrade (go ahead and roll your eyes at that word, too). Hearing or reading stories about mortars exploding 15 meters from you, does not equate to knowing what the overpressure feels like and to see your own knee bouncing and jangling uncontrollably with fear. Attending a memorial service for someone who died of a disease, or car crash- although tragic- is far different from going to one for a 19 year old you saw 8 days prior with both legs traumatically amputated, and so doped up on morpine that he keeps apologizing for getting wounded. How about cleaning the blood, hair, and stinking gore out of the inside of a Stryker in 120 degree heat with your weapons cleaning kit and Qtips while flies land in human goo and then land on your face? Did you watch a movie or talk with someone who let you know what it's all about? So. I don't owe you an explanation of what 'stirs' me. To use your own words, no- you do not have a clue.

And yes, you did insult that 17 year old person, by insinuating that he or she will be at high risk of contracting PTSD and becoming suicidal ("Look at the statistics!") or abuse drugs, or even a murderer if they enlist in the military. Your disdain for all things military is readily apparent.

Yes, yes. By all means, don't enlist. Run away. Mock those that do instead. It's dangerous out in the world. Other people will do what must be done in spite of personal consequences, or personal dangers.

Congratulations! You actually got me to write shit down that I havent thought about in a few weeks! Suffice it to say- you and I operate and think180 degrees out from eachother.

Well, my son took his ASVAB (sp?) yesterday. He scored a high of 69 which I believe is quite good. Any insights on what this means? He is getting the physical done today and will be back home tonight but I talked to him on the phone after work last night.

Nothing wrong with a 69. I think the Air Force requires somewhere in the 40s to enlist, and they have the highest score requirement.

Basically what he will want to do is get a guaranteed job, or MOS before actually signing up. No reason to play Russian Roulette with his career/training.

With his score he should have a large selection of potential jobs to choose from.

*Edit, forgot that the ASVAB divides into several categories. I wondered what you meant by a high, but I remember now.

They tend to use those scores to decide what you are best suited for. So if his high was in Mechanical for example, there is a good chance he'll be in the motor pool, etc.

His overall score is an average. So you can look at what categories he scored well in, then get on the internet and start looking at jobs that he'll qualify for and possibly enjoy.

Yeah, I will know more when I get home tonight. Thanks for the input!