This is what happens when you draft good football players...
 

Did anyone else see this stat on the Monday night game? I saw it, pondered it in amazement, and then became severely depressed by the Chiefs' draft-picking ineptitude. Here is the Pittsburgh Steelers 1st round draft history over the past few years:

2009: Ziggy Hood
2008: Rashard Mendenhall
2007: Lawrence Timmons
2006: Santonio Holmes
2005: Heath Miller
2004: Ben Roethlisberger
2003: Troy Polamalu

How can a team have this many great players drafted in consecutive years? Is it superior talent evaluation? Is it superior coaching? Is it luck?

I think it's safe to say they typically don't reach; and draft BPA and playmakers.

something the Chiefs never do.

my vote is Berry in 2010 for the Chiefs if he's available.

Agreed.

In hindsight I think we can all agree that none of those picks were reaches. But how do you know in advance? What exactly makes a player a reach?

If he plays a position of low impact on the field and his salary will not be commensurate with his production.

See: Jackson, Tyson.

And, this is how you build a dominant team like the Steelers have. Now if someone could find our draft picks for the same years. I would like to see how many of them are even left on the team.

Jackson had more tackles last week than Juan Morgan at safety. How low of an impact do you expect him to have when he gets going?

I also don't think things are as crazy in the 1st round as people make them out to be for KC. Lower rounds are a bigger issue overall.

DJ - Not a reach at all just a bust

Dorsey - Not a reach considered best defensive player in the draft at the time regardless of what other will try to say after the fact

Albert - Not a reach where we got him

Bowe - Not a reach where we got him

Hali - A reach

LJ - not a reach at 22 and with Priest health issues he actually paid off on his first contract. The guy was 75 yards from being the all time KC rusher. Never should have gotten the second contract.

Ryan Simms - Reach

A ham sammie on a pile of shit
is shit

Part of it is solid coaching as well, when you come into a system like the Pittsburgh Steelers who have Bill Cowher and Mike Tomlin, as well as Dick LaBeau on Defense it's just ultimate win.

The other thing that cannot be overstated is that if you already have a really good team and are drafting to supplement it, you don't have any need to take risks. You take the best player all the time because they are part of the future, not the now.

When you are trying to rebuild an entire defense or offense or both, you are going to take more chances.

By taking players at important positions, not mid-first rounders at complimentary ones.

First it's stability in the organization.

2nd, they absolutely do not **** up when hiring a HC. They seem to always get the best guy for the job.

3rd, they establish an IDENTITY and stick to it. Yes, the Steelers pass more now than they do most years but they're still all about defense and running the football...

Wow. Holy shit. The Pittsburgh Steelers are better than the Chiefs. And the Steelers draft better. I think there just may be a connection. Does anybody else know about this?
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The Eagles don't seem to do too bad either...

You left out the Colts. You know something? I just bet if you go through all the Patriots moves through the years they were better too. Amazing stuff.
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The Steelers have a culture that makes them one of the best organizations in the league. Their players don't mouth off, the locker room polices itself, and the veterans keep younger players in line.

I think it's more about - for most guys coming out of college - landing in a place where you're in a position to succeed. You take a guy who was not that great of a college player, and put him on the Steelers defense. He's in a great situation, he's with mature guys and on a good defense, he'll grow. On the other hand, you take a decent college player and put him on the Oakland Raiders, he won't grow.

It's not that the draft is a big game of Stratego and the Steelers never hit the bombs. Their culture is the major part what makes them successful, I think.

Yep.

solid draft picks + solid coaching = 0 busts

Colts:

09 Donald Brown
08 no first- Polllack in second
07 Anthony Gonzales
06 Joeseph Addai
05 Marlin Jackson
04 no first bob sanders in second
03 Dallas Clark
02 Dwight Freeney
01 Reggie Wayne

Patriots:

09 no first 4 seconds: Pat chung, Ron Brace, Darius Butler, Sebastian Vollmer
08 Jarrod Mayo
07 Brandon Mariwether
06 Lawrence Maroney
05 Logan Mankins
04 Vince Wilfork, Ben Watson
03 Ty Warren
02 Daniel Graham
01 Richard Seymour

Baltimore Ravens:

09 Oher
08 Flacco
07 Ben Grubbs
06 Haloti Ngata
05 Mark Clayton
04 no first
03 Terrel Suggs, Kyle Boller
02 Ed Reed
01 Todd Heap

Chiefs:

09 Tyson Jackson
08 Glenn Dorsey, Brandon Albert
07 Dwayne Bowe
06 Tamba Hali
05 Derrick Johnson
04 no first Siavii second
03 Larry Johnson
02 Ryan Sims
01 no first or second

Yep, I think the Steelers have been the most consistently good franchise during my lifetime (70s through now). I mean, how crazy is it to imagine that since 1969 ... they have only had 3 Head Coaches. There are a half dozen or more teams with more than that in the last decade. Noll took over in 1969 and his first 3 years weren't that great, but things took the turn in 1972. Since that time (37 season), 27 of those seasons (including 2009, because it will happen) - the Steelers have had 9 or more wins. Think about it, 9+ wins in 27 of the last 37 seasons - that's great! There was a span of years in the late 80s when the Steelers were inconsistent, but that immediately changed in 1992 when Cowher took over. Cowher only had 3 losing seasons during his 15 year tenure, but he had 9 double digit win seasons with a SB Title. Nolan, Cowher and Tomlin all have SB rings. They have a philosophy and they stick with it... they have a true identity. Every team has their off years and they haven't been immune to that either, but they do not get stuck in the mud for long.

Also, a lot of it is (as someone also mentioned) the stability in the organization. Included in that, is scouting. I think they do a great job at scouting/doing all their due diligence in preparation for the draft, then analyze their board as it compares to value/production etc. Is the guy a ‘contributor’? or a play maker etc.

I agree – the last few 1st rounders for the Chiefs, although not ‘exciting’, were not necessarily reaches at the time (sans Jackson). This is where I think the Chiefs scouting has left a lot to be desired.

That summary of Pittsburgh’s 1st rounders shows they grab playmakers at key positions. We obviously won’t be able to determine the pick of Iggy for a few years, but everyone else on that list has been a MAJOR contributor to their championship teams – not simply complimentary players for an uncertain direction/focus of a team such as the Chiefs. This goes back to stability IMO. Our constant shuffling of D coordinators, O Coordinators, HCs etc brings a ‘new direction’ each year.

I look at Denver's recent drafts... and, well... it's painful... 2008 was good. 2007 was horrific. 2006 was great, but two of them are now gone. 2005/2004/2003 were bad. Not a lot of shock as to why there is such a young nucleus, their drafts have for the most part just sucked.

It also appears that the Colts, Steelers, Pats etc, don’t over pay their RB’s either. They draft a play maker at the RB position, use him, then seem to move onto the next one. Which, (most likely) , frees up committed salary dollars to apply towards franchise-type players while continually replenishing the talent at other key positions

Ravens have been the most talented team by far. They draft the best. Trouble is they have never had a franchise QB, maybe Flacco becomes that guy but that is the major key.

It all start and ends with ownership

The point is not "not reaching" as much as it is getting something for your picks.

In the long term, if you spend a first round pick on someone 10 slots too early, that's not so bad as long as that player becomes a productive starter. If Tyson Jackson starts at DE for 5 years and is an average to above average NFL starter, some people will still cry about it, but he will have been an OK pick. Those don't kill your franchise. The killers are not the reaches, they are the guys who are gone in 2 or 3 years and who you never got any productive use out of.

I would like to see a report of the average service time each NFL team gets out of all draft its picks at all slots, regardless of round. I bet we can guess that teams like the Steelers are at the top, and teams like the Chiefs are at the bottom.

good post if you change the 5 to a 12

Chicken v. Egg. Would they be good players on other teams, or did the team that drafted help the player?

You can take the Browns as a team that drafted a lot of "great players" (by final draft grades and rankings) and yet the team struggles and players don't produce.

Good scouting and good coaching is key. With Pioli I am confident the scouting has improved and so far I believe the coaching has improved eventhough I am far from satisfied. Only time will tell.

But, they have hit gold at WR, OT, LB, and QB. Meanwhile the Chiefs have drafted 7 first day Dlinemen in the last few years with only 2 still on the team. That more than anything IMO has killed this team.

Exactly!

Chiefs Draft since 2003. I am aware some draft picks were traded for players. But this is just about the Chiefs ability to evaluate talent in the draft.


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3...efs-Drafts.gif

57 Total picks.

20/57 of them are still on the team for a whopping 35% "success" rate.

13/20 are picks from the last two drafts.

9/20 are starters.

7/9 were 1st or 2nd round picks. Keep in mind, in the last five drafts we have had nine 1st and 2nd round picks.

As a side note none of the draft picks from 2000-2004 are still on the team. Thats 36 draft picks that have had no long term impact on the team, and were basically wasted.

So tell me again how we have talent on this team.

The bad thing is that this defense would look pretty good right now with Mitchell, Fujita, Fox and DJ as the backers, Tank, Turk & Allen along with Pollard, Dorsey, Flowers, Carr and Morgan.

Oh, and a ****ING COMPETENT DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR!!!!!!!!!!

wow,no one from the 2004 draft is on the team anymore.

But I thought the Steelers OL was as bad as the Chiefs?
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From the last 3 Dick V. drafts there is a total of two players still on the team. That is really awful.

The above is why I am amazed that everyone gets so worked up about the draft. I used to, but soon realized that when they just **** it up year after year after year... what is the point?

Not only that, but hoping the Chiefs lose as many games as possible to get high draft pick? Then they **** that up to.

And one of them won't be here in 2010.

Ive have said this very same thing at least three times and it is spot on.

Why wasn't Jim Haslett considered for DC? Anyone have insider info on why?

and the other is a punter that was gotten with a comp pick

I suspect in 2010 only 3 players from 2008 will remain, and only 1 player from 2009.

Everyone else will be kicked to the curb. I also suspect Bowe will be put up on the block this offseason.

Yep, after this year Colquitt will be it.

I think Carr,Morgan, Flowers, Albert and Dorsey will stick.

I think the Ravens illustrate the importance of coaching, specifically the coordinator.

The defense has not played nearly as well this year as we have become accustomed to.

They lost a couple of players, but the biggest factor has been a new DC, with Ryan moving onto the Jets as the HC.

I have a real hard time believing Joey Porter kept his mouth shut. He went on to being called a bust in Miami. Bell went on to be a bust here, but that one may be laid at injuries doorstep.

It's team IMO

Pittsburg Steelers = Carl + Marty + ARealQBOTF

ive finally been convinced on this taylor mays guy, if he is really 6'3' 230 and runs a 4.3 40 yrd dash, he's going to go top 4 for sure. hopefully he's still there for us, maybe we could start some rumors that he smokes, it certainly made d.marino, b.j. raji, and p. harvin all free fall in the draft yet they still do just fine in the NFL, lol.

Carl and Marty never drafted as well as the Steelers.

Bell was never that good anyways. He was a hard hitter, but he was dumb as a rock. Even in Pitt they just made him rush the passer, cause thats all he was capable of. He played there for years and never figured out the playbook. When we got him, not only was he stupid, but he was injured, so he couldn't even hit people.

Well, that's obviously true given that we never drafted any real talent at the QBOTF and WROTF positions in the generation that they were here together. But my point is that, really, in the end, that was about the only difference.

There seems to be a *lot* more talent at the QB position these days than at any time during the Marty Era too. We were an elite francise during the first part of CP's tenure. People seem to forget that (understandably) these days.

You could almost (but not quite) understand the high turnover rate given the different systems and coachs over the last 8 or 9 years. From Gun's systems, to Vermeil's, to Herm's, and now Haley's. Very different skill sets for each coach's teams, both offense and defense.

The problem is how few of those players are playing somewhere else in the league. I mean, it's like a couple of guys. The rest are all flippin' burgers.

I think heart has a lot to do with it; I think football intelligence has a lot to do with it-and I think coaching absolutely has a lot to do with it.

I don't think anyone thought Joey Harrington or David Carr were going to go the way they went. You spend a couple of years with lousy teams and no blocking getting your ass kicked and your future hall of fame QB becomes a never-was in a hurry.

The Steelers never panic. They buy into a coach's philosophy 100 percent, and when it doesn't go well they stick with it. There's a lot to THAT, frankly. Pick a high character, smart, hard working individual to coach your team, and then give him everything you can to win with, every year. And don't panic if it doesn't work right away.

No, we weren't an elute franchise.

We were a good team during the regular season, but elite franchises draft well and win championships.

Elite franchises don't build the core of their team through free agency.

Bust?

Who the **** called him a bust?

He had 17.5 sacks last year.

you not only have to draft well in the first round, you need draft well and build good depth with round 2-5.

Yep, very easy to be jealous of that franchise. Without a doubt.

Bell was Defensive Rookie of the Year, he can probably thank his supporting cast for that.

Porter was labeled a bust after his first season in Miami. So far this year it looks like last year was an Eric Hicks like event.