Who is the best OLB in the draft?
 

That would fit the Chiefs 3-4. I don't beieve Hali is an effective everydown player and Vrabel should not be resigned. If the 3-4 is ever going to be successfull in Kansas City it will need a good NT and OLB. Who in this draft do you think is the best OLB prospect? Kindle, Hughes,Miller? Discuss.

Here's what I'd say, Kindle is the most naturally physically gifted, Norwood is probably the safest/most ready with his size/speed ratio and all of his games against top competition.

I like Norwood.

I think Kindle can be a real good player but in college he was inconsistant. For some reason I thought Norwood was a 4-3 player? Just checked he's 6'1 thats not too bad.

I completely disagree.

Kindle is from Texas so he has the typical Texas rap. Overly talented, undercoached, raw athlete, etc etc.

Basically everything that can be said for every player from the Mack Brown Texas era.

Howcome? He wasn't that good of a player this year.

I like Von Miller quite a bit. Would love to get him in the second round. He produced this year, and had a nice game against Okung.

Just being an asshole. Re-signed vs. resigned.

I wish MV's broke dick never made the connecting flight to KC early this fall, but we would have missed his "leadership," I'm sure.

Von Miller is going to have to go on the Aaron Maybin predraft diet.

Didn't you also think Hali would be terrible at outside linebacker and think that Mike Brown was the truth?

Miller was pretty productive on a bad defense but really Okung is a very overrated prospect.

He may be overrated, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is one of the top rated OTs in this draft, and Miller had a nice game against him.

Hali isn't that good of a OLB just a good situational player. And Mike Brown had some great seasons in Chicago not many argued his talent just his ability to stay on the field, Tardian.

Tamba Hali is still a complete liability as an every down player, he is about the worst run defender a front 7 player can possibly be.

Dion Gales agrees.

You don't know what you're talking about. How many opposing coaches praised Hali and said they had to gameplan against him? (Read: gameplan to run right at his ass)

So, is this thread going to turn from discussing draft prospects to bagging on current Chiefs' players, like every other thread?

Well how about people don't slant it that way then?

It's not bagging on players it's evaluating talent and the truth is Hali isn't an every down player. This team really needs new LB's but shouldn't spend a 1st round pick on an average LB like Mcclain.

I like Von Miller but would take Graham ahead of him if he is there. The good thing is... it's extremely deep this year at OLB... Hughes, Kindle, Norwood, Graham, Von Miller... ONE of them will be there for sure.

Right now I'd say Jerry Hughes is overrated while Ricky Sapp is being underrated since he seems to be lucky to get mentioned.

I personally like Hughes, but you never know how DE's will make the transition to 3-4 OLB so I'd say Norwood is the best 3-4 OLB since he already plays the position.

I like Miller also....Kindle scares me though. I wouldn't mind grabbing any of these guys in the 2nd.

Hey now you've liked every player from the state of Texas in this draft. I see a pattern here ;)

I certainly disagree with your claim that McClain is an "average" LB, and if Berry is off the board, he is certainly one of the players worth looking at with our pick.

woah there... McClain may not deserve to be a top 10 pick... but DO NOT pretend to think he is AVERAGE... he will go in the first round and rightly so.

McClain is a good player but he's not a game changer in the middle and I'm not sure he'll even be as good as a guy like Bart Scott. To me thats average not bad but not great.

So Curry was Below-Average then right? Or do you just not know what a good LB is?

That's about philosophy and belief, some people and NFL teams would never use a 1st round pick on a LB because numerous lowly drafted ones become productive players.

Aaron Curry is not a good example as he's not the best LB from his class and was pretty average all year.

Most 3-4 OLB's were DE's...

I watched a ton of TCU games... Hughes may not have played versus the BEST teams but he did face some decent Olinemen and still dominated... I'm not sure you can overate an athletic guy with a nonstop motor and a great work ethic.

While I don't think he the "runaway" best OLB I do think he edges out the others for the top spot. Honestly though, as I said... I'm not sure any of these guys are a BAD pick... solid solid group.

I know what a good LB is value wise and drafting McClain at 5 is not value. He's not Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis.

Solid year for depth, not a solid year for there being a premier prospect at the position.

There aren't any clones of them.. but hes about as close to them as you get.

What if I sat here and listed off all the LB's that got picked late and are fine starters?

You saying theres a big difference between McClain and ILB you can draft in the 2nd round? Because I don't see it.

You can do that with any position.

But it's very very prevalent with that one, LB is like the RB of defense.

Heres who I would like to see the Chiefs sign in free agency http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...rt=NFL&id=2663

Then draft a ILB in the middle to late rounds.

Karlos Dansby is never going to be allowed to leave, they franchised tag him for this year.

You think the Bidwells will actually spend money?

In case you haven't noticed, Arizona is right on the cap and they have several players with huge contracts.

Didn't know that but they've picked in the top 10 for so many years it shouldn't be a surprise. They almost let Warner go to San Fransico. They will also have to choose between who to pay Dansby or Boldin.

Yea people said that last year too...Arizona's issue with losing players has nothing to do with being cheap it's because they are right on the cap.

Arizona isn't a cheap team anymore.

Yeah I know that, but I'm saying in terms of safest pick the guy that's playing the position already is it. I'm not saying he's my first choice, but he's the safe choice.

Agreed. Pretty decent year for LB's. Personally, I like (in no particular order) Norwood, Kindle, Hughes, Sapp, Hardy and Griffen with our 2a pick - pending speed at the combine. It has been reported that all these guys ex Hughes and Norwood runs in the 4.5+ range. These 2 are also less than ideal height.

I like Norwood. If KC waits until the 3rd round watch for O'Brien Schofield and Jason Worilds.

Oh now it's his run defense. See at the beginning of the season you were another guy that said Tamba would epically fail in this defense. That he wasn't a good pass rusher and that he wouldn't be able to drop into zones. I didn't see where you showed up to say how wrong you were.

Derrick Thomas was also a liability against the run. So is Shawne "roidman" Merriman. so was Jon Randle. So is Dwight Freeney. So are lots of guys. not that I even buy that any way. When you're dealing with 3 down linemen who don't always anchor their gaps properly and the outside backers are constantly having to eat tackles and pulling guards they aren't going to do that well. I'm sure the argument that backs and tight ends run block him out of the hole is coming next, but I don't recall seeing that so often that it was an issue.

He doesn't get enough sacks to make up for it, if he was a terror throwing up 15 sacks ok, he's not. And he sucked as a run defender when he was playing end, this isn't a new development.

I personally don't see Griffen or Hardy as stand up players, could just be me though.

Tamba had a shit ton of holding calls and pressures. Sacks aren't the only stat in judging an outside linebackers value. Sorry but you were about as ****ing wrong as someone can be about Tamba and you still haven't owned up to that.

Jerry Hughes, TCU
Height: 6-2. Weight: 258.
Projected 40 Time: 4.64.
Projected Round (2010): 1-2.
11/14/09: Jerry Hughes is once again having a huge year (10.5 TFL, 9 sacks). He has a great shot of being the first rush linebacker taken in the 2010 NFL Draft.

5/18/09: Jerry Hughes had a monstrous 2008 campaign for TCU, notching 19.5 TFL and 15 sacks.

Maybe our best option is really just to trade down, take a guy like this and get more picks. I wonder if it would even be possible to trade down and/or use one of our 2nds to get back into the first round? I wouldn't mind a scenario where we could get a good rush backer along with Mays if he fell.

Fitzgeral, Breaston, and now Douchet is emerging... seems like they would be more inclined to let the guy who wants more and doesn't want to be there go.

Best of the rest

Von Miller*, Texas A&M
Height: 6-2. Weight: 240.
Projected 40 Time: 4.60.
Projected Round (2010): 2.
11/20/09: Compares to Elvis Dumervil; undersized but makes up for it with relentless pass rushing. Von Miller has 18.5 TFL and 15 sacks as a junior, beating Russell Okung on a few occasions. Any 3-4 team would love to have him.


Ricky Sapp, Clemson
Height: 6-4. Weight: 246.
Projected 40 Time: 4.62.
Projected Round (2010): 2-3.
11/20/09: Did a good job rebounding off his torn ACL with 8.5 TFL and four sacks in 10 games this year. Plays standing up at Clemson, so he'll be targeted by 3-4 teams.

2/12/09: Collected 9.5 TFL and 2.5 sacks in 2008, but tore his ACL in November.

7/30/08: Ricky Sapp's 40 will intrigue some GMs and coaches. Sapp was a nightmare for opposing signal callers, as he racked up 22 quarterback pressures and six sacks in 2007.





Sergio Kindle, Texas - Scouting Report
Height: 6-4. Weight: 254.
Projected 40 Time: 4.54.
Projected Round (2010): 2-3.
11/14/09: Sergio Kindle is physically gifted and some team may fall in love with him at the Combine. However, he has only 3.5 sacks as a senior.

2/16/09: Though he was just a first-year starter in 2008, the hard-working Sergio Kindle made a name for himself, notching 46 tackles, 12.5 TFL and 10 sacks. He also blocked a kick. With another stellar season, he'll be the top rush linebacker in the 2010 NFL Draft.

8/2/08: Sergio Kindle has yet to start a game at the college level, but he registered 32 tackles in reserve last season. He also owns a spectacular 40 at his size.


Eric Norwood, South Carolina
Height: 6-1. Weight: 255.
Projected 40 Time: 4.71.
Projected Round (2010): 2-3.
11/14/09: Eric Norwood has 10.5 TFL and seven sacks in 2009. He also has two blocked kicks and 62 total tackles.

9/12/09: There is no clear-cut favorite as the top rush linebacker in the 2010 NFL Draft, but that could quickly change if Eric Norwood continues to dominate his opponents like he did against N.C. State last week. Norwood finished with eight tackles, two TFL and two sacks. The Wolfpack didn't have much of an answer for him.

2/12/09: A monstrous pass-rusher, Eric Norwood collected 14.5 TFL and nine sacks as a junior.

1/6/09: Eric Norwood has announced that he'll be returning to school once he learned that he would be a late-round pick from the NFL Draft Advisory Committee. Norwood cited that he plans to improve his draft stock as a senior just like Aaron Curry.

7/30/08: Eric Norwood made the most out of his first year as a full-time starter. Norwood recorded 69 tackles, 19.5 tackles for loss and six sacks.


O'Brien Schofield, Wisconsin
Height: 6-2. Weight: 248.
Projected 40 Time: 4.60.
Projected Round (2010): 3-4.
11/20/09: A man with two last names, O'Brien Schofield has terrorized Big Ten quarterbacks with 51 tackles, 19.5 TFL and eight sacks in 10 games.


George Selvie, South Florida
Height: 6-4. Weight: 247.
Projected 40 Time: 4.68.
Projected Round (2010): 3-4.
11/14/09: George Selvie continues to struggle, registering just three sacks in eight games in his senior year.

5/18/09: A 3-4 rush linebacker, George Selvie has slipped into the second round of my 2010 NFL Mock Draft because he had just 5.5 sacks in 2008.

1/8/09: George Selvie announced that he'll be returning for his senior season.

11/16/08: Facing countless double teams this year, it's amazing George Selvie has been able to put up 11 TFL and five sacks through eight contests.






Cameron Sheffield, Troy
Height: 6-2. Weight: 247.
Projected 40 Time: 4.63.
Projected Round (2010): 4-5.
11/20/09: The "other" pass-rusher on Troy has 10 TFL and 6.5 sacks in 10 games as a senior.

2/16/09: Qualifying for the All-Sun Belt First Team, Cameron Sheffield had 58 tackles, 12.5 TFL and 5.5 sacks in 2008.


Jason Worilds, Virginia Tech
Height: 6-2. Weight: 254.
Projected 40 Time: 4.70.
Projected Round (2010): 4-5.
1/8/10: Jason Worilds has declared for the 2010 NFL Draft. Worilds is coming off a poor season, but told the media that he expects to be drafted in the first round. This has a chance of happening until Worilds wakes up.

11/15/09: Disappointed in 2009; has just seven TFL and 3.5 sacks as a junior.

2/12/09: Despite playing with shoulder injuries, Jason Worilds garnered 18.5 TFL and eight sacks, earning himself a spot on the All-ACC Second Team.


Jermaine Cunningham, Florida
Height: 6-3. Weight: 250.
Projected 40 Time: 4.69.
Projected Round (2010): 4-5.
11/14/09: Through eight games, Jermaine Cunningham has 8.5 TFL and four sacks. More importantly, Cunningham actually tries, unlike the guy on the other side.

2/12/09: Jermaine Cunningham did a great job putting on some bulk this season, moving up from 237 to 250 pounds. Cunningham had 10 TFL, six sacks and four passes broken up in 2008.

LMAO

Curry was average at best.

The three USC linebackers had FAR better years and two are Pro-Bowlers.

There's a difference between being a "liability" and a complete and utter failure.

DT wasn't as ineffective against the run as Tamba, and made up for his weakness as a heads up run defender to some extent with his speed in backside pursuit.

He was also, for the most part, a far more consistent pass rusher.

Every pass rusher gets held.
It's not unique to Tamba.

But the fact is, he had two good games and was invisible much of the rest of the season.

Did he surpass my expectations?
Sure.

But let's not get carried away and act like he's played above the line of mediocrity.

He wasn't the crap I was expecting.
But he also ain't the second coming.

He's the exact same guy he's always been.

It's just that this year, he stayed healthy through all 16 games.

Without the benefit of having an elite talent in front of him (ahem, Dorsey), he would have been a footnote this season.

And most assuredly, trampled over.

I think when its all said and done he will go around 20-25 but if he fell past that and we could trade up for minimal value, he would be a very good pick. From everything Ive read and seen of him he would be a difference maker.

If he tests high, he could go as high as 12 or so I think.

Seems like a player

This

I would also like to add that if we had a dominant nose and a guy like Jerry Hughes as the other OLB, Hali could be a 10-13+ sack per year type guy, tomorrow. Just my opinion of course, but he is doing pretty good with no push up the middle or pass rush presence from the other side. We need to develop that atmosphere we had a couple years ago when we got a good pass rush from both sides so the ends (olbs now) can feed of each other.

Tamba didn't play horribly, but should he be a teams primary pass rusher? Hell No.

I still think he should be rushing the passer from the left side, with a legit guy rushing from the blind side.

This guy.

...asssuming we can trade down.
Who would want to get to our spot?
Washington?

Washington picks ahead of us.

There should be some names on the board for both of our 2nds. Personally I'd go with Graham if he's there, but I watch Michigan a little more than I watch anybody else (sucks to be me).

Hali isn't losing his job, either way, whether he's a liability or not. We're not deep enough to sit him at this point, and most likely won't be in 2010.

Too be honest, Tamba gets way too much credit around here. Not that he is a bad football player or anything, he is very average. He made a nice transition over to the outside yes, but he isn't anyone to ooohh and ahhh over. He is a little inconsistent in the passrush, at times he is there, and at times he is invisible. And his run defense stinks.

If the Chiefs upgraded both OLB spots I would be for it. If they upgraded one of them, I'd be ok with that provided they get a good passrusher and Tamba rushes on the other side, fine. They must upgrade at least one spot with a good passrusher if they want to make some strides on defense.

Problem is, if they do that, you're probably still looking at Mays and Williams starting at MLB. Which is I think an even bigger problem than Tamba against run defense. That's what I was alluding to in my previous post.

And they still need a NT and at least one safety.

And they still need 3 or 4 (starting) offensive linemen, a starting wide receiver and I'd guess at least one running back.

Which is a lot of stuff...

I think both of these are incorrect. Hali put up OK numbers for being the ONLY threat of a sack. I know we've always talked about his numbers increasing, but really, everyone all season talked about Hali disrupting the backfield every game!

Vrabel needs to be re-signed just so we have that type of experience. I'd argue that he's the non-every-down player because of his age, but his experience and coach-like-ability (think of Bruschi in NE) are invaluable to a young coach and team.

I agree about Hali. He is another one of those "we'll worry about it next year because we have bigger glaring issues." If we get a good NT through FA (anyone know if there's someone who'll be available?) then we should see Hali's numbers increase, and if they don't, then we can cut him. I'd rather a FA NT because we wouldn't have the lag time that's associated with defensive lineman (crossing my fingers on TJackson still).

It is a lot of stuff, and you know, this a team that were just gonna have to be patient because of the amount of holes to filled its gonna take a while. But, I think the key for them is to address the key positions right now.

If they get a really good NT, it'll help the run defense quite a bit. Even though, Mays and Williams are a problem, their job would be a lot easier with a good NT in there. Get a passrusher, and the CB's and safeties jobs are a lot easier. Yup even if that means living with McGraw and Brown for another year. As painful as that is to say, its possibly the best we can hope for.

The two game thing is bullshit. Every guy tends to have a couple of games that are above the rest. I knew you would end up coming back to this. But actually Tamba actually only had the one game where he had 3 sacks. Other than that he was pretty consistent in causing pressure, getting a holding call, etc. and did so without any push up the middle or anyone else to rush the passer which IS significant.

It's funny how this board uses that one football stats site to show how shitty Cassel is then ignores it when talking about Tamba as a pass rusher. He was far better than "mediocre".

The rest of your stuff is just horseshit. Some here just hate on Tamba for whatever reason. You're one them.

I'd take Daryll Washington over McClain regardless of where the pick was in the draft.

All Von Miller does is get to the quarterback.

Teams ran to Hali's side all the time why do you think the Chiefs defense has been bad aginst the run the last few years?

Yea if he's like a coach then hire him on the staff. Theres no reason he should take away playing time from a guy whos better at this point of his career.

Thing is, you didn't say get a passrusher, you said get two...

I worry more about Vrabel than Hali, and I worry more about Mays and Williams than either of them. This defense got destroyed up the middle, and I don't think adding two outside pass rushers solves that.

I do agree that NT would be a huge help, although I don't think it has to be a high draft pick solution. I'd look in free agency first, find somebody to knock Edwards from the starting lineup down to a rotation player.

I think Brown has to be replaced. They just can't afford to have that kind of target in the pass defense. I don't think that means that Berry must absolutely be the pick, however, although he's an obvious answer.

And I've said this before, but I think adding a player like Rolando McClain could have an enormous impact on the defense. He's a heady linebacker with great size and speed, the kind of field general that this team hasn't had in the decade I've watched, and he comes from the 3-4 in college to boot. I think he could have the kind of impact on this d that Urlacher did for Chicago. But, that said, 5 is damned high for taking a MLB.

Anyway, my perfect scenario would be Berry or McClain early, a WR and a rush linebacker in the second, a center and a guard somewhere in the 3rd-5th range, then NT and whichever position we didn't draft early (S or LB) from free agency, along with whatever else they need.

I can not believe that anyone would want to keep Mike Vrabel, he's done.

Also MLB is a position that shouldn't need high draft picks to fill it.

I am going to throw out a homer name for a late round MLB that I would love to see the Chiefs get.

Pat Angerer.

I'm sure his numbers don't add up (physical, etc.) but all the guy did at Iowa was lead one of the better defenses in college football, rack up tackles, and just flat-out make plays.

Plus, he's got one of the coolest last names for a football player ever.

Seriously though, he reminds me a little bit of Zack Thomas. Not the exercise-bike riding one, but the one that made all those plays for the Dolphins.

Mecca, what do you think about him?

According to Pro Football Focus, Tamba graded out 2nd among all 3-4 OLB's in pass rushing, but was rated 25th of 28 in coverage, and 28th out of 28 against the run.

That's a one-dimensional LB, folks.

Dumervil was right there with him.

Guys like that are fine man, late round LB's have a good shot of making it.

Just in the past year during draft threads Hamas and myself screamed for the Chiefs to draft guys like Brandon Siler, Wesley Woodyard and Dannell Ellerbee in the 7th ****ing round and all of those guys have turned into productive players.