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-   -   ChiefsPlanet *****Official Chiefsplanet NFL Lockout Talk Thread***** (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=222890)

Mr. Flopnuts 02-04-2010 04:28 PM

*****Official Chiefsplanet NFL Lockout Talk Thread*****
 
We're heading in that direction. I had forgotten that the owners were going to get paid 5 billion dollars from the networks even if they don't play games. They just had a guy on the NFL network that's in the players union, talking about some of the decisions the owners have made leading to this point. He made some compelling arguments that they've been planning this for some time.

Now, whether or not that's true is another story. But he did make a pretty compelling case. I've always been a firm believer that these things always get handled in the 11th hour. I'm not so sure anymore.

I figured I'd make this thread to discuss the issues at hand. A repository if you will, of collected information regarding free agency this year, all the way to a possible strike next year. It's unfortunate, but we're there folks.

OnTheWarpath15 02-04-2010 04:35 PM

I posted this in the "Chiefs Losing Money" thread:

Quote:

DeMaurice Smith just said in his PC that the the Packers (who are publicly held, so the books are available, apparently) cleared a profit of $20M in 2008, which was a losing season, without Brett Favre.

They were 27th in payroll at $94M. The Salary Cap was $116M. Do the math.

That's not a huge profit, IMO, and I can see where teams could be losing money.

DaFace 02-04-2010 04:38 PM

Technically, the likely possibility is a lockout rather than a strike.

The Franchise 02-04-2010 04:38 PM

Wanna quit losing money? Get rid of the enormous rookie salaries.

OnTheWarpath15 02-04-2010 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 6506057)
Technically, the likely possibility is a lockout rather than a strike.

This. Huge difference.

DMAC 02-04-2010 04:41 PM

With the chefs winning next years super bowl, that will give us an extra year to celebrate.

dirk digler 02-04-2010 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6506048)
I posted this in the "Chiefs Losing Money" thread:

That is crazy that $94 million is 27th in the league. The Chiefs have to be dead last.

Thig Lyfe 02-04-2010 04:45 PM

They can't risk letting it come to this. Look at how the other 3 leagues suffered for years after their strikes and lockouts. No way does the NFL let their rock solid position as the top US sports league slip away. Can't do it. Just can't.

OnTheWarpath15 02-04-2010 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler (Post 6506087)
That is crazy that $94 million is 27th in the league. The Chiefs have to be dead last.

They were.

DrRyan 02-04-2010 04:46 PM

I find the Packers only making $20 million in 2008 extremely hard to believe. The TV deal that runs through 2011 for CBS, Fox and NBC and 2013 for ESPN is worth roughly $20 billion(depending on which sources you are looking at).

Link

Link

Edit: $1.1 billion per year just from the MNF broadcasting 2006-2013.

dirk digler 02-04-2010 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6506093)
They were.

LMAO

I guess they got what they paid for

rambleonthruthefog 02-04-2010 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SportsRacer (Post 6506091)
They can't risk letting it come to this. Look at how the other 3 leagues suffered for years after their strikes and lockouts. No way does the NFL let their rock solid position as the top US sports league slip away. Can't do it. Just can't.


thats pretty much the way i feel. Why risk your position as top dog? i find it hard to believe they can't figure out a way to share all that money. guess ill start gettin ready for Texans tryouts just in case.

BigMeatballDave 02-04-2010 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 6506057)
Technically, the likely possibility is a lockout rather than a strike.

This. Sux either way, though. I hate it when professional sports talk about 'Labor Strife' and 'Work Stoppage' like they actually live in the real world.

'Hamas' Jenkins 02-04-2010 05:04 PM

Just like the NBA, the owners will get the players to fold b/c most of them live paycheck to paycheck.

Titty Meat 02-04-2010 05:30 PM

Theres always College Football and by the time the NFL strikes the communist government will make College football play a playoff.

Bane 02-04-2010 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence (Post 6506059)
Wanna quit losing money? Get rid of the enormous rookie salaries.

This.

ToxSocks 02-04-2010 05:43 PM

So if the NFL has a lockout year, how does that affect the draft?

Mr. Flopnuts 02-04-2010 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 6506057)
Technically, the likely possibility is a lockout rather than a strike.

Seriously. I wasn't thinking when I posted that. Can you change it?

Mr. Flopnuts 02-04-2010 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6506162)
Just like the NBA, the owners will get the players to fold b/c most of them live paycheck to paycheck.

LMAO You know what's absolutely reeruned about this? That it's spot on. I just can't feel sorry for any of them.

Willie Lanier 02-04-2010 06:05 PM

The whole negotiation is a joke; current and retired players with long term work related injuries are laughed out of the conference room.

This is pure greed

chefsos 02-04-2010 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts (Post 6506285)
Seriously. I wasn't thinking when I posted that. Can you change it?

No way! I want to see how many times (and ways) guys post this:
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 6506057)
Technically, the likely possibility is a lockout rather than a strike.

I'm guessing....11 times.

Hammock Parties 02-04-2010 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6506162)
Just like the NBA, the owners will get the players to fold b/c most of them live paycheck to paycheck.

I can't even fathom how dumb you have to be to spend that much money in a month.

FAX 02-04-2010 06:31 PM

My sense is that they'll get this thing worked out in time. There's a lot of posturing going on at this stage - as is both customary and predictable. Each side will be leaking information to the press designed to support their respective positions, but the public arguments will be somewhat different than the private ones, so my advice is to take what you read with a salty rim. It's all part of the age-old game.

Rookie salaries will be one of the main issues, though. Interestingly enough, some kind of reasonable rookie pay scale is potentially beneficial to both the owners and the union. The benefit to the owners is clear. Not so obvious, however, is the fact that reasonable rookie salaries leave more money on the table for veteran players - a point that's not lost on the union, I'm sure. There's reason to be confident they'll ultimately find common ground on this, as well as the other, more traditional issues.

If not, it's going to be up to the National Women's Semi-Nude Tetherball League to save our country's sports bars from bankruptcy - which wouldn't be all bad. Nothing says "America" better than a large breasted girl going for a full openhanded, counterclockwise, overhead strike forcing her opponent into an inadvertent penalty wrap.

FAX

'Hamas' Jenkins 02-04-2010 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs (Post 6506304)
I can't even fathom how dumb you have to be to spend that much money in a month.

Imagine not being taught how to budget money.

Then remember that unlike Corporate executives, who get most of their payments in options that allow them to dodge paying tax, athletes are getting hit at a 40% rate.

Then tack on another 3-5% for your agent.

Then think about all the hangers on and the entourage, or extended family members who want help with a business, or an investment.

Then think about the peer pressure to "keep up" with the materialism.

It's not intelligent, but it's easy to see how it could happen.

BigMeatballDave 02-04-2010 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6506364)
Imagine not being taught how to budget money.

Then remember that unlike Corporate executives, who get most of their payments in options that allow them to dodge paying tax, athletes are getting hit at a 40% rate.

Then tack on another 3-5% for your agent.

Then think about all the hangers on and the entourage, or extended family members who want help with a business, or an investment.

Then think about the peer pressure to "keep up" with the materialism.

It's not intelligent, but it's easy to see how it could happen.

Seems most young players succumb to this. Some are smart about it. I recall Dante Hall saying he lives off his endorsement money and saves his salary.

kstater 02-04-2010 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX (Post 6506349)
My sense is that they'll get this thing worked out in time. There's a lot of posturing going on at this stage - as is both customary and predictable. Each side will be leaking information to the press designed to support their respective positions, but the public arguments will be somewhat different than the private ones, so my advice is to take what you read with a salty rim. It's all part of the age-old game.



FAX

Excellent post. I haven't seen anything other than posturing from either side so far.

OnTheWarpath15 02-04-2010 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX (Post 6506349)
My sense is that they'll get this thing worked out in time. There's a lot of posturing going on at this stage - as is both customary and predictable. Each side will be leaking information to the press designed to support their respective positions, but the public arguments will be somewhat different than the private ones, so my advice is to take what you read with a salty rim. It's all part of the age-old game.

Rookie salaries will be one of the main issues, though. Interestingly enough, some kind of reasonable rookie pay scale is potentially beneficial to both the owners and the union. The benefit to the owners is clear. Not so obvious, however, is the fact that reasonable rookie salaries leave more money on the table for veteran players - a point that's not lost on the union, I'm sure. There's reason to be confident they'll ultimately find common ground on this, as well as the other, more traditional issues.

If not, it's going to be up to the National Women's Semi-Nude Tetherball League to save our country's sports bars from bankruptcy - which wouldn't be all bad. Nothing says "America" better than a large breasted girl going for a full openhanded, counterclockwise, overhead strike forcing her opponent into an inadvertent penalty wrap.

FAX

I agree regarding the posturing, for the most part, Mr. FAX.

But it would be silly for DeMaurice Smith to lie about the information regarding the Packers. They are a publicly held company, so it would be pretty easy to determine if he's telling the truth.

CaliforniaChief 02-04-2010 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6506364)
Imagine not being taught how to budget money.

Then remember that unlike Corporate executives, who get most of their payments in options that allow them to dodge paying tax, athletes are getting hit at a 40% rate.

Then tack on another 3-5% for your agent.

Then think about all the hangers on and the entourage, or extended family members who want help with a business, or an investment.

Then think about the peer pressure to "keep up" with the materialism.

It's not intelligent, but it's easy to see how it could happen.

Well said. If you don't apply the tools available to you, they're worthless and you're guaranteed to live check to check. It's not an information deficit. I just found it interesting that the NFLPA people are telling their guys to hold off on buying the boat, pay off the debts now, etc...to us it's not fathomable but to them it's just like it would be if we went without work for a year. They are screwed.

ChiefsCountry 02-04-2010 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6506364)
Imagine not being taught how to budget money.

Then remember that unlike Corporate executives, who get most of their payments in options that allow them to dodge paying tax, athletes are getting hit at a 40% rate.

Then tack on another 3-5% for your agent.

Then think about all the hangers on and the entourage, or extended family members who want help with a business, or an investment.

Then think about the peer pressure to "keep up" with the materialism.

It's not intelligent, but it's easy to see how it could happen.

Thank God for the smart ones with their money like Trent Green.

Mr. Flopnuts 02-04-2010 07:35 PM

You the man Face! Thanks.

Mecca 02-04-2010 07:37 PM

There are far far more issues than just the owners and players agreeing, the owners can't even agree amongst themselves.

Sweet Daddy Hate 02-04-2010 08:56 PM

Quote:

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. -- Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver Chad Ochocinco had a simple question for DeMaurice Smith. Ochocinco wanted to know how serious the NFL Players Association's executive director viewed the possibility of the league not playing in 2011.

Bisciotti: 'An acute problem'
Steve Bisciotti, the Ravens' owner, said Wednesday that some teams are struggling financially and a lockout is possible unless the union makes concessions
in labor talks. More ...
Smith didn't hesitate.

"On a scale of 1 to 10," Smith said Thursday, "it's a 14."

With that, the union leader painted perhaps the bleakest picture yet regarding prospects of labor strife in the league, which could be looking at a 2010 season with no salary cap and, if the collective bargaining agreement expires as scheduled in March 2011, a lockout that year.

"I keep coming back to an economic model in America that is unparalleled," said Smith, who often repeated phrases for emphasis. "And that makes it incredibly difficult to then come to players and say, 'On average, each of you needs to take a $340,000 pay cut to save the National Football League.' Tough sell. Tough sell."

Smith said the NFL would receive $5 billion from its network television deals even if no games are played in 2011. He regarded that as proof the owners are preparing for a lockout.

"Has any one of the prior deals included $5 billion to not play football?" Smith asked, referring to previous contracts that were extended or redone. "The answer's no."

Some of Smith's nearly hour-long question-and-answer session during Super Bowl week was spent reiterating past claims, such as team values increasing "almost 500 percent" over the last 15 years. There also was a call to have all 32 NFL teams open their books to show who was losing money and how much.

Smith also said he wanted teams to contribute what, ultimately, would be millions into what he called "a legacy fund" that would better support retired players.

Most of his focus, however, was on striking a new labor deal.

"I really and truly in my heart believe we'll get a deal done," NFLPA president Kevin Mawae said. "But there's going to have to be some give and some take and not just taking from one side all the way."

The league's response, in part, said that teams such as the Green Bay Packers -- whose audited financial statements are the only ones the union said it has seen -- have seen a 40 percent decline in profits.


"In most businesses, that would be a serious cause for concern," said Jeff Pash, the NFL's executive vice president and chief counsel. "It would indicate a serious issue that has to be dealt with. You look at your single largest expense, which is player costs."

Indianapolis Colts quarterback Peyton Manning, whom the team plans to soon give a new contract that would make him the league's highest-paid player, acknowledged that he has concerns.

"I think as a player, I feel we have a pretty good thing going right now in the NFL," Manning said Thursday. "It would a shame for something to have to change along those lines. I understand kind of like when a player is holding out or a player contract, there is a business side of this that can be tough. It is not always pretty."

Smith said the latest NFL offer to the players would reduce their share of applied revenues from about 59 percent to 41 percent. He emphasized that the teams take $1 billion off the top of the estimated $8 billion the league generates.

Pash argued that the $1 billion reflects actual costs incurred, money "invested in things like NFL Network, NFL.com, putting games on overseas, all of which is intended to and has in fact had the effect of generating substantial additional revenues, 50 percent of which go to NFL players. And the union knows that's true, because the union has absolute rights to audit those expenses."

Echoing NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, Pash said Smith's assertion that players are being asked to accept an 18 percent pay cut -- the $340,000 per-player-average figure -- was among the "misrepresentations of what our proposal is."

"We have never said it would result in players having to take a reduction," Pash said. "The entire point here is to generate a pool of resources to have continued investment and continued growth, which would lead to higher salaries and benefits for players."

For now, some players say they're bracing for issues. Mawae, the Tennessee Titans' center, said he even has recommended players save 25 percent of their salary next season "in the event of a lockout," though he noted "we can't make all 1,900 players save their money."

"We've told them, 'Don't go out and buy a new boat. Don't go out and buy a new car. Pay off whatever debts you have,' " Colts center Jeff Saturday said. "These are things we've been learning from history."

Smith and Mawae said that if next season goes forward with no salary cap, it would be highly unlikely to have a new CBA with a cap reinstated.

"Virtually impossible," Smith said.

"A very difficult task," Mawae said.

Asked about the owners' assertion that the 18 percent pay cut request was false, Mawae didn't hold back.

"That is not true," he said. "That is absolutely true they've asked for 18 percent."

Meantime, the union is increasing dues for now, with the idea of returning the money as income to players, if needed, during a lockout.

"Our guys get it," Mawae said. "Our guys understand."
yay.:mad:


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