An open letter to the refs of my daughters' game this afternoon
 

OK, boys. Last week we tried to show you what travelling was. You can't take three steps after you've picked up your dribble, you can't take a bunny hop before putting up a jumper. You can't shove a girl into the scorers table without a call, you can't let the other team pick up the ball and throw it in after a score (that's a technical foul, by the way).

Just to let you know, three of the players' moms are attornies, and they've all got PMS.

Just sayin'


(I got T-d up last week after our girl got hacked and made they shot - refs disallowed the shot, we missed the freebies, they got a rebound, broke away, and the girl took no less than 3 steps prior to making her layup. We got called for a foul on the shot, and she made her free throw... as well as the free throws on the technical. We were down by one, would've gone up by one, instead we went down by seven... I lost it)

You are a very brave man!

Hell, I'm the assistant coach. I'm there to crack jokes when things get too serious.

I'm calling shenanigan on the ref.

I remember some terrible refs we had back in the day, I got tackled twice with no call. So I decided there was an easy way to score, drive down the lane and throw elbows at anyone who came near me. I never got a foul and made some easy layup's, but the coach benched me for it, lol. The coach was making calls to the league office at halftime.

How old are the kids?

7.

So, at what point do you just laugh and realize, THEY'RE SEVEN YEARS OLD

When they're 14.

I'm kidding. I have no idea how old they are.

But, if we're talking about drawing tech. fouls, I hope these are high school kids.

I used to ref 1st through 6th graders at the local rec center.

It was a lot of fun because we had a teach first policy that allowed us to blow the whistle to stop the game, explain to the kids what they did wrong and what they need to do to play correctly.

They usually got the ball back if it was a traveling violation, double dribble, or carrying the first few times, but after that it was by the book with explainations to the kids every time until the understood. Coaches loved the system because we always got the kid's undivided attention.

You wouldn't believe how fast they picked up on the rules when if was explained to them. By the 3rd week we didn't have to worry about the stuff you described because most of them knew the rules. It was a very easy job after that.


If the refs were letting them get away with it, especially without explaining the rules, they will never learn correctly.

What Braincase failed to mention is that the girl that got away with the three steps is considered the Michael Jordan of her league, and we all know that the stars get special treatment.

I coached a boy's b-ball team for three years (from their 6th through 8th grades) and the officiating always drove me nuts. Not that they made bad calls, that's a given at any level, but they barely knew the rules. We lost one game because the ref called traveling on my player for moving along the baseline after a made basket. I went ballistic and got a technical foul which probably cost us the game.

Whoa. That's pretty bad.

She was probably the hulking kid that towers over the others pulling her Patrick Ewing imitation with the 23 step hook shot down the middle of the lane.

When it comes to refs for youth sports, you're usually getting what you pay for. Often kids b/c they're making about $15 per game (basketball, bit more for baseball, $20-25), with very limited training--if any.

Given this fact, it's always a mystery to me why people get upset about youth league officiating. Realize it's, largely, a problem from the jump.

Makes more sense to get upset with the source, the league itself.

I rarely got upset because it's to be expected. The refs in that league were college kids by and large. To not know that players can move along the baseline after a made basket was mind-numbing.

I hear you, but this just shows the level of training and selection that go into making the decision to hire an official. Here's an example of the screening process:

"We need a ref for Sat., 10:00 AM. You interested?"

"How much?"

"$17, games last only 1 hour."

"I'll be there." The end.

I know, b/c I officiated as a way of working my way through college. Now, I know a little bit about basketball, so any given league I worked for got "lucky." But, it certainly wasn't b/c they looked for qualified people. They just wanted bodies.

You're probably the ****er that called a lane violation on me for having 1 foot over the 3 point line on a guy's FT in a rec league game one time.

uh.......guessing he should have?...

The goal should always be to hit the kids over the head with the rule book.

If three of the little ****ers didn't cry by the time I left the court, I considered it a poor effort on my part.

It's all about the win111113111

My son plays in an 8 year old league... and the refs call EVERYTHING... it's good, but was surprising in the first game. Some of the kids have done this for 2 seasons, a few were new. It was amazing to sit through the first 2 games as I believe the scores were 10-8 and 8-6 with about 337 whistles blown for various things. The kids were so confused, but the thing I liked was the refs took time with each whistle to quickly explain what happened.

Yesterday was game #6 and while there are still a lot of whistles, the games run smooth and the kids are a hell of a lot smarter now about how to play.

An open letter to anyone who bitches about girl's basketball officiating:

Shut the f*** up.
That is all.

6,7,8th grade.

Most of the girls are going to be trying out for their 8th grade teams next year, so they need to have calls against them when they make mistakes. I've got a 7th grader and a 6th grader on the team. My oldest plays a 3/4 and fills in at 5 when needed. My youngest plays the 1 & 2.

The one 8th grader would've made her schools team if it wasn't for her attititude.

No. You're probably one of the punks that calls the game.

I guess you could technically call it a violation. But standing still talking to another player behind the line with one foot over the line on the first of two shots is probably not in the spirit of rec leagues. We'll just say me and that ref disagreed on that call.

Reminds me of our Intramural Championship softball game. We hadn't lost all year, but 2 of our guys couldn't make it to this game so we were down by 1 in the last inning. With 2 outs one of our guys beat out a throw big time but was called for the final out. He went absolutely crazy and just ran at the ump yelling the entire time. He got into his face and more or less disagreed with the call.

The ump not knowing what to do just yelled back "I'M NOT PAID ENOUGH TO MAKE THAT CALL!"

Our entire team bust up laughing and that was the end of it.

You lost the game, didn't you?...:shake:

I haven't got a clue.

I'm a youth sports veteran here, have a 15 year old and a 12 year old who play about everything between them.

My experience is that there is nothing on the earth so unreasonable biased, and just plain blind to reality as a sports parent, so I figure these threads are about 95% one-sided horseshit every time.

In our half-time conversation with the refs, we started off pointing no less than three times that they should've called penalties on our kids, twice on the head coach's kid for travelling.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you, we all want our kids to win. I want my kids to win, but not at the expense of a skill set they need to learn to advance.

I hear you, there. Just saying you want to be on guard to make sure you aren't being unreasonable. I catch myself doing it sometimes.

If you are coaching youth sports and are obsessed with winning, losing, and having great referees you are in it for all the wrong reasons.

I'm not going to make myself out for being a saint in these things. I'm usually good for one T or Unsportsmanlike per season.

Like I said in post 31, advancing the skill set has to come first. If you don't let a player know about their mistakes, they're stagnating, and when they go out for the school teams later, they won't have the skills they need to make the team.

The problem arises when you teach the kids one thing and that teaching is negated by a ref that doesn't know the rules. I'm all for teaching the kids and having fun, but when my players looked to me, I had no answer but to say, "He missed the call," and it rings hollow. It's confusing to a youngster.

BC old buddy:

As a guy who has officiated hundreds of kid baseball games I can only offer you this advice:

Pick up a striped shirt and make a difference. It's a tough proposition, since you have kids and they are at the age where you are father/Ass't coach. Your children will learn infinitely more from watching you handle the parents in a difficult situation that they will learn from you as an assistant coach. I know this from experience.

I was an umpire in the youth league at Lake Shawnee for many years when my kid played. I took a great deal of grief over all manner of issues. Mostly balls and strikes.

I took my kid with me on days I umpired so he could see how stupid some people could be. One particular biotchMom I'll never forget. Constantly griping about balls/strikes. I turned to her after she complained about a 3rd strike.

HER:"That was way high! How could you call that"?!!

ME: "The job's open lady. You seem to want to help. Grab a blue shirt and do your talking from this side".

[Crowd chuckles]

It was glorious silence from that point forward.

The refs post here? Assholes!

If you teach your kids the fundamentals they will succeed at the higher levels, whereas the kids that are not playing properly will have a hard time adjusting. Youth sports is about having fun, going to places to eat after the game, and spending time with your family. I don't even remember the scores of any games or what our records were when I was a kid, and yours won't either.

Clarification:

in no way do I think you're a bad sports parent. It's extremely helpful to have parents involved in the officiating aspect as it gives them somebody less easily intimidated (and kid refs ARE intimidated) by the crowd.

I was an umpire during the summer for 6-8th grade little league about 2 years ago. We had to go through training to make sure we knew all the rules and signals & whatnot and I didn't have any problems behind the plate. I guess I was pretty popular with most of the coaches because I knew all the rules and called a fair game and whatnot (got requested to come back last year, but couldn't because of schedule conflicts). Between innings, I would go talk to a coach while the pitchers & infielders were warming up and make sure they didn't have any big complaints and just bullsh*t around with them.

But one time when I was the field ump, I completely fracked up a call at 2nd (kid stole, slid into the base & was tagged out, but the 2B dropped the ball, so the runner was safe. I punched him out before seeing the ball on the ground and basically overrode my own call & called him safe). Talked with the home plate ump and he agreed that the correction should stand, so I went to each coach & let them know that I messed up and what happened. The coach of the defensive team (thought the original call should stand) took me about 10 feet from the rest of his team and said (very serious look on his face) "you know that's bullsh*t, right?" I told him that it was my fault and that I should have waited until the end of the play to make a call, but that the correction would stand. He started laughing and said that he was just joking and that he was glad I admitted my mistake. No harm, no foul I guess...

The supervisor had a nice laugh about that. I think I may try umping again this summer...

Did. Spent three years as an umpire and one as a scorekeeper in HS. Had to throw some coaches out of games, one particularly memorable event had two coaches whining and complaining about a missed tag on a runner coming home - I had called the kid out, but the kid ran 12 feet outside the baseline. The tag was irrelevant. Coaches didn't try to listen. I remember some bitter old bitch sitting behind me, anytime I yelled strike, she'd yell "Bullshit!".

I never use foul language around kids, but I do know the difference between officials that are doing their job, and those that are there because officiating beats the hell out of working at McDonalds.

Today, we got beat by 24 points by the first place team, but the officials did a good job keeping control of the game. I bit my tongue a few times, but all in all they did a good job. Kind of pissed me off that all of the other teams cell phones went off when our kids were on the free throw line... but whatcha gonna do.

Right on BC.

You need to move out of that yuppified wasteland that allows cell phones on the bench. (Although that IS hilarious)

It was in the stands. Pretty petty of family members to do that.

Are you kidding me? Did they all ringtone at once or something? I know you said yes, but I had to ask again.

Yep. Pretty easy to tell it was orchestrated. And they were already up by 16 points in the 4th when they were pulling that crap.

Oh well. We lost it. Our little ballhog small forward kept shooting, went 0 for Infinity for the second week in a row. Had to keep her in because she plays great defense, and we only had one player on the bench.

Our 3rd grade team dropped every game. The next season, we were undefeated. Won two straight championships. Of course, our boys didn't play in the championship division, but it was a good experience for the kids. That 3rd grade post-season tournament, I got T-ed up, and kicked myself out of the game. Those poor kids.

I hope I set a good example for my kids. The two times I've been T-ed up and took an unportsmanlike conduct has been in the face of absolutely atrocious reffing (today's refs were outstanding), and when I was trying to protect one of my players.

Sometimes you have to take a stand for what's right.

Ya know, if you need to hire a heckler, I'm not far away. Just for that team. When they go to the line, right as one of the girls begins her shooting motion I'll yell to one of the fathers on the opposing team:

"HEY, I SAW YOU ON TO CATCH A PREDATOR"!!!!

Bad Boys, bad boys, watcha gonna do?
Watcha gonna do when they come for you?

No way, man. These refs wake up every morning and decide to screw over some 12 year old girls' basketball game. It's high time that somebody finally stood up to them. Why don't parents ever freak out and do something about it? It's totally justified.

Yay thread!!!

Actually, I just started the thread just to irritate you. I win!

No way, man. These girls are going to the WNBA if the refs don't succeed in their evil plot to undermine them.

I'm just hoping they get a shot at making their 8th grade teams next year. I think my kids have a better shot at academic scholarships than athletic scholarships, but ya never know. I'm sure you know how hard you had to work to get your D-1 athletic scholly.

So you hate when people yell "CUT HIS ****ING HEAD OFF!" at Ku games, but you yourself can't control your mouth. cool

I didn't use any vulgarity, and I don't use vulgar language around kids I coach. I stood up and told the refs that they are hurting my kids and the other teams kids by failing to call travelling time and time again. I got one T and excused myself from the gym.

I have no idea what one has to do with the other, but if the quantum leap in logic suits you, you're more than welcome to it.

Been around the world and only stupid people are breeding.....

I didn't work at all for an athletic scholly. I went to school for free on a National Merit scholarship. It worked out pretty well, because in the real world I don't have to worry about some pimply-faced 16 year old trying to sabotage me.

You talk a lot about being a D-1 athlete. Here's betting that your scholarship was:

1. Not in football or probably even basketball (ie. not in anything that anyone gives a rats ass about, especially not 20 years later)

2. Not in anything that impacts your career in a positive way to the extent that studying would have.

Not saying that your version is full of shit at all...that sure sounds like something that would cause you to "excuse yourself from the gym" in a little girls' basketball game. You should probably re-think a few things if you draw unsportsmanlike fouls at Brownie basketball games. It's bad enough if the head coach negatively impacts the outcome of a game due to sportsmanship issues. It's somehow worse when it's an assistant to the coach.

I can't wait to go to the water cooler tomorrow and tell the guys how bad ass I am, by getting t'd up in a 7th grade girls basketball game, I am pretty sure most of them got their periods at halftime, that's how awesome it was.

Yeah so back to me being awesome, alot of people think being a "Man" is talking to someone privately in a civil maner, screw that, I am going to send an awesome letter and stand behind woman lawyers, so bad ass the letter mine as well have wolf urine on it.

D-1 athlete in the seventies, yo!

So my daughter flunked out of college and said the teachers were a real bitch, well I showed them, I wrote a note to them, told them that's what life is about right here. I let one of my daughters sign it. She got her period that nite, it was awesome.

Man, you are an arrogant douche. I ran decathlon at Wichita State. I popped a knee. I was also in the Emory Lindquist Honors Society.

And I learned that alot of National Merit Scholars are arrogant douches.

My eyes are bleeding from the awesomeness of reading these words.

Great moments in history Vol 2 In this day 30 years ago Rosa Parks stood up for what she believed in and helped change America as we know it. Today a Man, got a techincal foul in a 7th grade girls game, and sent a letter to them. Everyone involved had their period that day. It was awesome.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you weren't there. I'm not saying I did the right thing, but I'm not ashamed. I left on my own accord, and I wasn't kicked out of the game.

Regarding the unsportsmalike call, as I mentioned before, I was vocal trying to protect my kids. Ref took issue with the volume of my voice, and threw the flag.

I don't expect you to understand. The whole athletic competition thing might not be cerebral enough for you.

Often Misquoted FDR's true quote to america was "the only thing we have to fear, is Woman Lawyers with pms"

And some douche didn't read the thread before trying to mock the thread starter.

You are the douche that tried to hump my leg by throwing out the D-1 athlete comment. Didn't mean to rub it in your face. Sorry that your boss's boss was a National Merit scholar while you were busy being decathletic. I'm sure you'd be on the pro decathlon circuit today instead of whining about pre-pubescent girls' basketball officiating if your knee had held true.

Believe it or not, that part was meant as a joke.

I'm going to have to defer to your superiority on this one. I don't grasp the enormity that is the struggle of girls in braces vying for basketball supremacy. I was only a D-2 athlete, and my endeavors weren't even important enough to boast about on a message board.

SEXIST JOKES ARE AWESOME I AM A GREAT DAD

She stood up for what she believed in. That's what history remembers, anyway. What they don't teach you in elementary school is that Rosa Parks didn't get her feet set before she got hit with that baton. If the refs weren't blind, she would have been called for blocking.

Whatever, Mr. National Merit Scholar. If you don't like the subject, recuse yourself from the conversation.

Your back on ignore, Massengill.

I tried to convey to my boys the differences between black and white people. I did it in blackface

Once again, I get to rediscover the liberty the ignore button holds.

OH SHIT IGNORE..... FOR WHEN YOU CAN'T SEND A LETTER

As a brave man once said:

I can't ignore you, DP. I'm way too cerebral do ever do that.