Messing with bull and losing the Horne
 

Ok, I know that the title of this thread is utterly reeruned. I am aware of it, so let's talk football.

I am under the impression that our WR from Mass, Mr. Horne, looks to be a pretty good wideout so far. While I understand we're only halfway through the preseason, he was open a few times in game one, and had our only TD in game two. In limited action it appears the game isn't too big for him, he has good size, hands, speed and he might make a nice addition to our WR core. While I'm not sure his performace warrants a jump to 2nd or 3rd string, I will say that aside form special teams, he has a bigger upside than Copper. He certainly has shown me more in limited action than Long, Urban, and Lawrence.

My concern is that we're going to cut him and then try and and sneak him on the practice squad. This will not work. I'm going to be as disappointed as Hog Farmer with a barn full of sows if we do this becasue someone will sign him to their 53. Count on it.

The WRs should be:

Bowe, Chambers, McCluster, Urban and Horne.

They could keep Copper too and consider only keeping Jones and Charles at RB.

I think we've got to keep 3 backs, although since McCluster is our utility man, that might work. I don't know about Urban though. I haven't seen shit from him.

I'd hate to let Battle go just to keep Copper

Battle does look salty this year...

This was discussed at length the past two days:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=232333

I guess I haven't seen enough to say I think he's won a spot on the roster. I'm going to have to defer to the expertise of the coaches.

Every year it seems we have some WR that works his way into the hearts of fans during preseason. I can't think of many that actually went on to be anything.

Sorry I didn't see that. I must have been doing something else. Perhaps we need to discuss this further?

No need to apologize. If I were busting balls, I would have just said "repost."

Just wanted you to be able to see the opinions that have been thrown out.

:thumb:

I also can't remember one of these "hearts and minds" receivers of the last few years that actually caught a TD in preseason running with the 1st team. I don't think the 2nd coming of Jerry Rice; Bobby Sippio ever did, but I could be wrong. Actually, did we have any WR that caught a TD in the preseaon in the last 5 years? I'm sure we have, but sadly, it doesn't seem like it...

Much appreciated!

To reiterate what I said in the other thread, and to elaborate a little, I don't know that Horne will ever amount to anything more than a guy that can stretch the field.

However, we do need that kind of receiver on this team.

He has the speed, and better size than McCluster, who is the only other option with speed to stretch the field.

I totally agree. Our QB is not the most accurate with the long ball. If we're going to chuck it up there, we need a big WR that can fight for the ball. McCulster is not going to win many of those, even against your average 5'9 DB.

Sippio caught a preseason TD.
Posted via Mobile Device

I need supporting documentation...

Good for him...fat lot of good it did him though.

Sippio was/is slow, Horne isn't.

Yeah, but is Horne Bowe's cousin?

That's what I thought. :)

Copper or Horne? Copper or Horne?

Copper doesn't impress me much, but I want to see more of Horne before I make a call.

Keep Horne.


Piss on Copper...

LMAO

Horne gets open.

WIDE OPEN.

WIDE OPEN DEEP.



It's not his fault we don't have a QB that can hit him in stride...

WRs work into the hearts and minds of fans by performing well in preseason games. It gives them hope that our WRs may not be as bad as everybody thought.

That's the problem. Doing well against another team's future training camp cuts isn't proof of future NFL success.

I'd like to think that Horne is different, since he's doing everything right, not just making plays, and he has speed. But I really can't say for sure.

I know everybody hates Copper, but he's the only WR that actually brings something to the final 53 roster. So far Urban has been his usual inconsistent self that he's been with the Cards. I've already posted this, but it seems that he's the odd man out.

THE GREEN HORNEtte

Copper's role on this team is obvious...he's the guy that runs back to tell Arenas not to run the kickoff out of the endzone. How could anybody else do that?

Seriously, Horne seems to have nice upside and Copper would look good in a Sacramento Mountain Lions uniform.

This would be nice since NO ONE at WR currently has any...

Do they include pewter in the unis?


I kinda' like the pewter...

Pewter is sharp, however the answer is no. The Mountain Lions are black and gold.

So Horne has speed, but do we really know if he has hands? No one is going to be scared by a deep threat that can't catch.

I'm not against the guy per se, I just don't know what everyone has seen that has them thinking he's NFL material yet.

**** Copper then.

Have him talk with Kurt Warner about a day job...

Has he had a ball hit him in the hands yet?....

Well, we've seen copper the last two years and he is a complete waste of a roster spot on offense. His special teams play does NOT warrant keeping him. Give Horne tha chance to be that diamond in the rough we've never been able to find.

Just think, Horne sprints down the left side, Chambers down the right side Bowe and McCluster crossing over the middle. I'll bet Castille would gain 5 yards in that scenerio.

It seems that we've been clammoring for a WR to come out of nowhere since we let Joe Horn walk. Horne might be the guy, he might not. But if it comes down to him and Copper, we KNOW Copper isnt that diamond.

I don't understand the obsession with Horne. He isn't taking Copper's spot. It isn't happening. get over it already.

Watch the special teams play in the Buccs game and Copper will show you why.

I don't think it was while he was running with the 1st Team, which is what Red Beans was referring to.

Exactly. Even if Horne moved up to 2 or 3 on the depth chart, I doubt his presence on the team would be worth it over what Copper can do for us.

That's the truth, folks. It's not sexy, it's not hopeful, and it doesn't give the Chiefs a shot at another bigtime receiver. But it makes the team better.

What exactly does Copper do for us SNR? Horne got open and at least caught a TD...he is making himself known out there. Copper gives us what?

I'm concerned about depth at QB, TE, C, CB

QB -Cassell, Croyle (2)
HB - Charles, Jones, Battle, Moore (4)
FB - Castille, Cox (2)
WR - Bowe, Chambers, McCluster, Copper, Horne (5)
TE - Pope, Moeaki, O'Connell (3)
LT - Albert, Richardson (2)
LG - Waters, Asamoah, Harris (3)
C - Weigmann (1)
RG - Lilja (1)
RT - O'Callaghan, Brown (2)

Offense = 25

DE - Dorsey, Jackson, Gilberry, Smith (4)
DT - Edwards, Lokey (2)
OLB - Hali, Vrabel, Studebaker, Sheffield, Walters (5)
ILB - Belcher, Williams, Johnson, Mays (4)
CD - Flowers, Carr, Arenas, Leggett, Richardson (5)
FS - Lewis, McGraw (2)
SS - Berry, Langford (2)

Defense = 24

Special Teams = 3

He's an ace on special teams. Has been consistently for the entire time he's been with the team.

Also, Copper caught a REGULAR SEASON TD last season. It's not like Horne's one single preseason TD was an impressive route or anything.

Not dogging on Horne. Just saying, quit thinking Copper is dogshit compared to a ****ing UDFA rookie whose only accomplishment in the preseason has been a 6 yard TD.

Also, tell me all about Urban's value to the team. What has he done according to your system for assessing value for players?

You think they will cut Niswanger?

The reason Copper caught that pass was because no one was covering him. And why would they? Copper got ignored because he was never running plays with the O. Put Copper out there full time and he's dog shit. Horne, who knows? I'll take uncertainty over dog shit any day.

What does he do for us?

Remember that kick off return that Arenas had in the buccs game?

Go back and look at who had the key block that sprung him loose.

Watch how many times Copper is one of the first players, if not the first player to get his ass downfield to make a tackle on kick off coverage.

As far as Horne goes, he had a 6 yard TD grab. Big deal. There was nothing special there that makes you say, "oh damn, that guy is a gamer".

He was simply in the right place at the right time. Verron Tucker coulda made that play. Even on the deep pass that was overthrown to him in the falcons game, Horne failed to extend himself to make the play. He short armed it. That could've been caught IMO had he extended himself. The guy's body was damn near perfectly vertical when he attempted to make the catch.

It's probably been said already, but Horne does a good job, letting him walk would be a travesty.

So you wanna discount Copper's KEY special teams play for a WR that has shown nothing? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Horne will make PS. No doubt. Maybe he can make the team next year, who knows. Right now, i'd rather a special teams Ace rather than some scrub developmental player that wouldn't see the field behind Chambers, Bowe, McCluster & Urban.

4 RBs?

RightTttttttttttttttt.

FYP

The Chiefs had 5 last season

So they're cutting Rudy and Palko? Why are there only 52 men on the roster? I also doubt they cut Washington at safety.

I suppose they could keep 2 centres, that would bring the roster up to 53. From what I've seen Niswanger hasn't improved at all so I'd rather give the roster spot to someone else.

I could see keeping Washington over Richardson as he can play S and CB.

I doubt they keep two fullbacks when Battle can also play FB. And not having two centers is pretty F'n dumb. Rudy makes the team. And I really DOUBT they give up on Washington already. Especially since it looks like he's improved this season.

The question for me is do they throw in the towel on Magee already?

If we wanted uncertainty over mediocrity, we would cut half of our offensive line and replace them with promising training camp cuts from other teams.

Whatever. It's my fault we're even discussing this. Copper is going to be the 5th receiver if he makes the team. The job of the 5th receiver is NOT to have the potential to be an all-pro. Know why? Because he never ****ing sees the field. Copper's contributions are way more valuable than anything Horne or Urban could do for us this season. Not because Horne can't improve, get better, and make it in this league, but simply because he's next to last on the 53-man depth chart if he makes it. He's going to be the inactive guy nearly every Sunday. Meaning, **** him. We don't need him this season. He can play on the practice squad and get better for next offseason if that were his job.

You don't value Copper because you're glossing over the importance of good special teams players. I mean, special teams is the most boring aspect of football for a lot of people. But if we're going to have this **** awesome kick returner that we drafted, we're going to need blockers and we're going to need gunners on coverage teams in order for this fancy new ST package to make any kind of field position difference for this team. Copper is key to that.

Battle hasn't got signficant looks at FB during preseason or TC this year or last. What makes you think he could do it during the regular season.

I do agree it is risky not having 2 centres. My thinking is that Waters could play it in an emergency and we have less O-lineman on the 53 because of their versatility. Most likely scenario is Niswanger makes the team.

I have no problem dropping Richardson and keeping Washington.

Waters moving to center in case of an emergency? Not going to happen. No way, no how. You don't move your LG to Center. Now you have two problems instead of 1. rudy makes the team. I doubt the coaches have even discussed cutting him.

I know this.

That TD catch that he made in the game against the Bucs required concentration, as it traveled through traffic in the front of the end zone.

I actually thought it was thrown to the other receiver in the area... and then I thought it was intercepted. Sort of shocked when I figured out we had a TD. :shrug:

That was what I said in another thread.

In the highlight, it appeared that pass was intended for the receiver in front (who appeared to fall down).

The O-line and the 5th WR spot are two entirely different beasts here. If you're going to take a chance on a flyer, where else but the 5th WR spot. I'm not talking about a team philosphy here, I'm talking about the 4th or 5th WR spot. I'm not talking generalities, I'm talking about one single position.

I agree. Thrown through traffic and it was coming fast. It was a good catch.

I guess my only point is I feel like the sample size is a little small for people to start putting him on the final 53

Again, if the guy you want at that spot is a flyer, he belongs on the practice squad. He's not going to see the field otherwise, in which case his use on the team can be allocated to someone else... like Copper.

Because Copper will contribute to the team a hell of a lot more than Horne will. No one wants to give Copper his dues for the block he laid that sprung Arenas, yet everyone is lining up to suck off Horne for some 6 yard TD catch that any camp fodder could've made.

And when one of our receivers goes down at least we'll have copper to replace him . Mr. 4 ****in catches in 2 years! Horne got open in that first game ,DOWN FIELD, you know where if our constipation of a QB could have thrown it to him it just might have gotten a touchdown.

I don't think Copper was around blocking for Arenas while he was setting return records in College. You say he sprung Arenas. I say he was in his way and Arenas had to go around him .

Red Beans caught a Drug an Meth charge

He got open and failed to adjust to the ball or make an adequate attempt at catching the ball. Did you see the way McCluster laid out to try and grab the ball on Horne's TD catch? I hope Horne did, because that's the kinda effort he shoulda put forth on that deep pass in week 1.

Oh, and a WR goes down, we simply activate Horne from the PS.

I saw that. And we typed our two posts at almost exactly the same time. We must have saw the play pretty much the same way, as did a couple of other folks according to the other thread.

My money says he won't clear waivers. There lies the issue.

I'll betcha he does. There's a receiver like him on every team.