The Myths of Why We Shouldn't Play Croyle..
 

Myth #1: He will just get hurt.

If that's the case WTF is he our #2 then? If Cassel gets hurt he is going in, so what then?

Myth #2: He is 0-9 as a starter so he can't do the job.

What ****ing job? Hand the ball off? What is it that Cassel does that makes some think Brodie can't do the same if not better?

Nevermind that 8 of Croyle's losses came behind one of the worst offensive lines in Chiefs history with absolutely 0 pass protection and 0 running game.

The 1 game Brodie started under Haley he did ok in until late. I firmly believe had he had more time with the starters the 4 TD's he overthrew against Baltimore would have turned out different

Myth #3: He isn't the long term answer.

I agree, but neither is ****ing Cassel. As much as I like what we are doing right now is actually not a bad time to change QB's.



When it comes down to it you have to look at things this year. Cassel has taken 2 sacks in 4 games. Meaning the O-line is much better in protection and we have a great running game to help him. Croyle, while not a long term answer, can actually throw the ****ing ball with some zip on it for more than 5 yards.

Why are you worried about QB play, pete?

We have a solid D and run game, and these are more important.

Trade Bowe and a bag of Arthur Bryant's to Miami for Thigpen.

BRING BACK HOPE.

I would like at least average QB play. I think that is just a minimum on any team. With our defense and running game an average QB would suffice for the time being.

Croyle being 0-9 as a starter isn't a myth.

How about this, the guy has never been impressive. He isn't accurate he isn't mobile. I say that as a person who rooted like hell for him after we drafted him.

He throws the ball hard. That's all he has got.


At this point I don't give a shit, start him but he is nothing special.

Because Brodie coming and playing a game or two is completely different from benching Cassel and making him a starter. He'll get hurt eventually, then we will be back to where we started and have no viable backup. It simply won't accomplish anything.

ROFL

I never said he was "special". But considering the alternative he doesn't look so bad if you ask me.

we have 3 backup QB's on our team...It doesnt matter who starts and Cassel has proven he can stay healthy.

Define "suffice"? It's entirely possible that we're going to take our current sack of shit to the post season. Could we win it all with "average"?

I actually would love to see Croyle get a chance. When he's tried before, we've had an offensive line that was about as effective as a slight breeze. I'd love to see what he could do when he's not getting slammed to the ground every other play.

Sounds an awful lot like our #1 QB, except for the whole throwing the ball hard thing.

Fact #1: Matt Cassel is Scott Pioli's guy... At least for this year.

Like in preseason, when he was hurt, again?

He's more talented than Cassel, for sure, but I don't think Croyle is an NFL player, as I've said numerous times.

If the defense and running game continue as they have then I think "average" would give us a better shot than Cassel.

Bring back Kris Wilson

Our OL didn't look near this good in preseason. And I don't think he is either, but I do think he's got just as good of a chance at it as Cassel.

The thing is, if Cassel don't get his shit together like next week he is going to lose this offense.

At this point, I'm for trying because, as you allude here, I don't think there's much downside and there definitely isn't a talent dropoff.

Perhaps we'd catch lightning? But it would be just that, temporary. Need a new option for '11.

Here in lies the problem. At this point I don't care who we run out there. I am starting to pine for something different just so it's different, which isn't good.

Yup.

If?

Is that a serious statement?

pete needs to understand what a "myth" really is before he uses it in a sentence.

The better question would be downside. Are we worried about Cassel's confidence? He doesn't play with any now. He's not physically scared, like Huard, but he has no awareness.

Yeah like when the pre game guys say Cassel really needs to get better at EVERYTHING etc.WTF do they expect? All of the sudden a high school QB is just gonna figure it out and play at a pro bowl level?ROFL

Cassel sucks, but Croyle isn't any sort of answer either.

The chanting will start at Arrowhead soon
if people still show up

It's hard to say for sure I know, I just can't help but think had Croyle been the QB today we actually bury the Colts 27-12. Not that Croyle is tons better, but I think he just has a better "feel" for the position.

I know Cassel is Pioli's guy but I wish we could really know who Haley would rather go with

Yep. He consistently looks like he has no clue. He always stares down receivers and he's a drive killer. I did think his throw to dbowe in the endzone was great but that's few and far between...

Exactly. How many wasted opportunities were there before and after the pass Bowe dropped?

What's the worst that could happen? He gets hurt and we end up where we are now

Give it a try

Works for me I guess.:rockon:

If you agree with myth #3 aren't you saying it's NOT a myth? :hmmm

It is because not playing him for that reason is bunk. Cassel isn't the long term answer either. We don't have a long term answer.

Admit it pete. I am right. As I'm always right when I debate you in that other forum. ;)

We don't need Brokie to be Tom Brady out there. We just want a REALISTIC chance that he will make a semi-accurate throw downfield to a receiver who is being covered in man coverage. We need just enough throws to prevent 8 men in the box because the defense knows our only viable threat is to run the ball.

The defense is willing to take the chance and load the box knowing that the perfect storm has to occur for Cassell to hurt them. Will he be able to locate the open receiver? Will this receiver be the best option or will it be the checkdown 95% of the time? Will he make an accurate throw covering more than 10 yards in the air? Will our #1 receiver catch that throw? Will the O-Line be able to protect Cassell long enough for his brain to process all this data? Will the ball slip from his hands for no apparent reason while he's concentrating on all of the above?

Croyle wouldve made that throw to bowe in the endzone on the first drive.

I'm willing to bet Croyle would have realized Bowe had 3 defenders around him and checked off to Copper or Castille or just ran it.

Thats the thing with Cassel he is NEVER EVER in a groove. OTher qb's while they may not set the world on fire, they have a streak where they are on it. Cassel? never. He's all over the place all the time. Great throw here, next play beyond terrible throw. He will have a few more bad throws before he has a good throw.

He has no consistency at all when throwing a football. I sat here wqatching the game today and Cassel will throw a good pass and i am like ya, ok, now we got something going. Maybe Cassel will be in a little zone. Next pass not even close.

IT FRUSTRATES ME!!!!!!!!

i agree with a few posts that could swing either way. I have hated croyle for being a little b#$ch but he does have a nice spiral and he always looks at more than one receiver. Cassel on the other hand will hike the ball and then look and stare at the spot he is throwing the ball....worthless... dead give away everytime...thats why the only long plays we have had have been from trick plays or JC

I think it comes from lack of recognition. Or perhaps he is thinking too much? Most QB's got a pretty good idea of what the defense is going to do before the ball is snapped. It's like Cassel gets the ball then waits to see if he is right?

You do it to try to get a spark, and If he gets hurt, then you're back to Cassel. What have you got to lose? Nothing. Cassel should be yanked. It's Croyle's turn to get a shot. I don't give a shit what his record is under Herman Fn Edwards.

But, but, but.....that could bruise the psyche of Cassel

I don't think you can say he's not accurate. Football is a little like poker, you don't always have to complete a pass over 20 yards, but if the other team thinks you might you've accomplished something. I think that alone would help the run game continue to be successful.

Yea I can say that, he throws the ball hard when the receiver is 4 yards from him. He has no touch an he isn't accurate. That's the facts.

KEEP HOPE ALIVE!!!

Sadly that is still better than Cassel

With how well the o-line has been playing, I'm not certain that there is a 100% bonified guarantee that Croyle would have a life threatening injury.

Precisely!:thumb: I have been on the "wait-n-see" wagon about Cassel up until today. Today was a big game and big players come up "big in big games" and Cassel and Bowe proved they are not "big game players". But after following the game on the internet and the scoring ticker on TV today I could see and safely assume that Cassel and Bowe were not making the "big plays" when needed.

And after coming here in CP and reading the "fair knowledgable objective posters" you confirmed it.:thumb:

Cassel has never been threatened by losing his job so why should he try to get better? Consciously he wants to get better and I would believe him if he said it but "subconsciously" there is no sense of "urgency" and now a fire has to be lit. But maybe as some of you have said Cassel "can't" improve because he "sucks" that bad.:shrug:

But the big question is what Haley "really" thinks of Cassel especially after this game. A change at QB will only occur if Haley feels Cassel has lost the confidence of the team, not just the offensive side of the ball.

Yes, the defense is clicking on all cyclinders right now but that won't last long if our D is out on the field 2/3rds if not 3/4qtrs of the game from here on out.

Does Haley make the move?

There's 1 legitimate case for not handing the team to Croyle at this point. He might actually succeed.

What if Croyle comes in and plays well? Plays well enough to get us into the play-offs? Sign him to a new contract? So our QB next year for our up and coming play-off team is Brokie Frayle?

The last thing we want is for Croyle to look good enough that the front office wants to move forward with him. If he was gonna be the guy, he needed to be the guy before now.

At the risk of sounding like I'm cashing it in this season, when it comes to QBs I want this team to flush in the spring of 2011.

You are completely missing the point of all this. No one here thinks Brodie could be the future here. People just want to see something different. Croyle has a live arm, Cassel does not. They need to try something. Its obvious this Cassel experiment is not working.

All I know is that I want to become the Chiefs head of security. I was a badass in High School - nobody could whip me. Plus I was a member of one of the most elite military dynasties in history. I'll do the job for $630k.

Brodie Croyle never had defense to play with that the chiefs have. Ya, Croyle isnt the answer, but he a better option than Cassel.

You are missing the numerous posts I have stated I am fine with Croyle starting.

I just think it's the same thing except an injury away from going back to the same thing.

I would love to be wrong though.

You make very valid points. When Pioli and Haley came here, if they really thought Croyle could be developed into a starter they would have done so. But their assessment is that Brodie is nothing more than a b/u.

So at best I see them using Brodie as a motivator "possibly" on a very "short lease" regardless of Croyle's play. I say "possibly" because we really haven't seen Pioli's ego put in a position until now to either 'do what it takes to win and make common sense decisions in the time of crisis or just continue to "pad the ego in denial and try to force a round peg in a square hole".

Damn guarantee you this is Pioli's decision and not Haley's. Pioli comes from the Parcells tree and Parcells wasn't afraid to shake the "apple cart". I predict that Cassel will get the Houston game and that will be it if Cassel doesn't show significant progress.

Ironically Brodie will never come in unless Cassel's injured.

JUST PLAY THE GUY! I hear the injury stuff, but how do we lose in putting him in? Just play him.

I don't think Haley will create a controversy by pulling Cassel this year. I think Haley views our team as still in the building process. Casse,l will play out his contract and if he sucks all year he won't be resigned then we will give Croyle the opportunity next year unless we find a better alternative.

Then what's gonna happen, he plays bad? I think a benching is the best thing for him right now. Hell, it may help his game. It needs to be done.

I don't know what you're watching, but Cassel is more scared than Huard. I know Huard goes fetal, but he did hang in the pocket on several occasions. Let's face it Huard>Cassel.
Cassel ALWAYS looks scared.

Cassel is not horrible, he's skiddish and makes some "rookie" mistakes that he should have outgrown already. The 4th and 2 on the 6 yard line pass to DBowe, looked like if he waited one more second he could have had an open tony to the corner of the endzone, but alas, he felt "pressure" that wasn't there and forced the throw to the unopen WR and we had no points on the board.

That being said, I'm still waiting for this guy to show me why he was worth the money that Clark is paying him. I don't need him to be Montana but DAMN Flacco would be nice....

Croyle, I've always thought, gets a bad rap on here because of he's "so prone to injury". But having had injuries at one time does not mean he's "fragile" and therefore never ever going to become better than you'd think.

Actually, from the things I've seen watching this team and seeing Cassel and Croyle throw, I really do believe that Croyle has the better arm, WITH accuracy, compared to Cassel. what I don't know is how he'd respond to being the starter with this team this year. But I'm ready to explore that option now. I'm so tired of seeing cassel under/over throw and stare down his receivers, TOO MANY times in EVERY GAME this year.

Not only does he throw the ball w/ better zip, but he makes better reads. And unlike Cassel, Croyle is not as hesitant in the pocket. I could think of some many reasons why Croyle is better. He has better pocket awareness, better vision, better delivery, and just better overall poise.

Quite frankly, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't play him? If they're asking Cassel to do the simple things, and he can't even succeed in an offense that evolves around a short passing game, then that spells suckage to me. I've seen other QB's sadly, like Bono and Huard manage that style of offense better than he has. We have nothing to lose at this point by playing Croyle.

Your arguments are all pretty much fail. I am just going to take your last one as an example.

We are in 1st place. We have EVERYTHING to lose....You don't make this kind of drastic change after 4 games when you are 3-1....Esepcially when the game before last was actually pretty good and the last game's loss was to a better football team and the fault was mainly not with the QB...There were other worse factors in the indy game. Since they have made the decision thus far to roll with Mark Castle....they will be rolling with him next week.

This is like comparing the plusses and minuses of diarrhea with soft, runny stool.

How about we stop fooling around with crap and acquire a real quarterback.

Wasted opportunities? Pete, if you watched all the routes that our WR's ran yesterday, you would noticed that there were only 2-3 times that someone was even remotely close to being open. The Colts secondary just absolutley shut down the WR's of the Chiefs yesterday. Owned is a very good word for it.

I understand that we have a QB that sucks the penis, this isnt news, But to actually see in person how truely aweful Bowe and Chambers are.. :eek: I was stunned to say the least. They are slow, lazy, their routes are garbage...

I dislike Cassel more than any QB we've had since the 90s on, but this is going too far, IMO. Huard, literally, quit on the field. As worthless as Cassel is, he hasn't reached this level yet.

The Denver game at home in what year did Huard quit on his team? Should be a good trivia question?

and just where have you seen this greatness of Croyle? Neither QB is the answer.

Great thread.

I just wish we could have seen what he could do.

You did.

The answer: Lose.

Stupid bump.

BOARD THE LUCK TRAIN! WOOOHOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

LMAO

Wow...

Classic Pete.

Pretty telling that the guy isn't even in the league 1 year after being released. The freaking Cardinals cut him. GREAT THREAD, BRO

You must really want to embarrass petegz28

Exactly. There are literally thousands of reeruned Pete threads to go through and you pick this one?