Collinsworth and Simms debate Matt Cassel
 

I can't believe Simms said some of the things he said.

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jesus Sims.

I'd love to agree with Phil Simms, I'd really love too. But he lost me when he said Matt has a great arm. Anyone who has watched every snap of every Chiefs games knows damn well better than that.

Yeah I LOL'd @ "he has a great arm" I mean JFC.:shake:

Can's see $#it...

They can't protect him and he takes too many sacks? WTF?

Isn't he like the #2 least sacked QB right now?

Collinsworth said about as many boneheaded things as Simms did. Personally, I thought Simms actually raised some good points other than the good arm remark

Both them were dead wrong on a couple points. But this one was just reeruned.

Before this season I would agree with that, but this year Cassel has done a fantastic job on not holding onto the ball too long, and the line has been incredible protecting him.

Is it just me or does nobody know football like Cris Collingsworth.

I hate to say this, because I think Collinsworth is a douche, but in this case, his opinion is the closest to reality.

I don't know what Simms has been watching. But our passing offense is dink and dunk. We all know that, and we all know we need to run and run and run and run. And when we don't the drives sputter.

Sounds like this board

I think he said "good" not "great".

He's a rare gem.
ROFL

They agree the receivers aren't very good.

Collinsworth has ALWAYS made me want to vomit.

Yeah, I liked Gus on our last play at the end of regulation the other day. He said something like "Cassel has a huge arm, this is where he's dangerous"

Okay, I watched it again. You're right. Does that really invalidate my post?

I enjoy Collinsworth's color. He's pretty enlightening during a game when he's on his game. But I can't stand him otherwise.

Cassel has a average to good arm so it's not like he's wrong. What Cassel struggles with is his accuracy.

Gus said about midway through the second quarter - "This is right where the Chiefs wanted to be in this game".... uh - yeah, tied 0-0 with the worst team in the league.

Of course he does. He plays QB in the NFL.

Have you ever heard a commentator say "oh that guy has a terrible arm" or "his arm is below average"?

Having a good arm somewhat implies accuracy for me. What good is a cannon if you can't put it where it needs to be?

Jesus, they don't know crap about the Chiefs except that we have a good running game.

Of all ****ing people, Warren Sapp seemed fairly evenhanded in his evaluation. Gotta give credit where it is due, Cassle is far from being a great QB at this time but at times he has been a large factor in the teams success. Yeah yeah I know he has failed at critical times as well but don't be blind to his contributions.

Generally I like collinsworth but it is clear from this video that neither one of them have actually taken the time to watch any chiefs games and were just using talking points.

That was a debate based entirely off of stats and rankings.

Collinsworth has never liked the Chiefs because Albert Lewis and Kevin Ross used to bitch slap him whenever we played Cincy. Simms will stand up for any NFL QB, because he used to BE an NFL QB. Sapp usually poo-poo's KC, but at least he got a taste of what KC-Oakland rivalry is all about, and I think for that reason he's backed off a bit this week. Also, beating them seven times in a row in Oakland is big. Nobody's ever beaten Oakland 8 times in a row in Oakland, so that'll be huge if we can pull it off.

Nice find on the video. Collinsworth and Sapp have it on the money with their beginning and closing statements. However, Sapp used to be a ****ing Faider, so I take it for what it is.

Still see..........****ing...........hate Goatse........

Yeah, I thought the same thing, LOL

closest to reality, yup - but still ****ing off his rocker with a pessimistic outlook, Absolutely. I think Mecca is really Collinsworth sometimes.....

PS - I'm just soooooo happy that our beloved Chiefs are actually garnishing enough national media coverage to get a spot on inside the NFL.

He trashes the faiders all the time actually. It's easy to sense that he has a built up hate for Al Davis, and the faider organization as a whole.

I like what Sims had to say.

I agree with a lot of things he says. In particular about coverages. It is going to happen where NFL receivers get single coverage for a lot of snaps.

Are the Chiefs receivers the greatest? Absolutely not.

But I like how he got to the bottomline. When Cassel has to make the crucial plays to drive his team at important times in ball games he makes the throws. Statistically he converts a majority of the throws that count most. He did that last week. He setup his team in position to win the game. He flat out did his job.

And thats what matters. The most appropriate way to judge a quarterback is to see how that quarterback responds under pressure. I don't care what anyone says. So far, Cassel has proved he has the ability to perform well under difficult circumstances. Facts don't lie, like it or not, anyone who debates this is simply a Cassel hater imo.

*Don't know where the lack of protection came from though? That boggled my mind there.

You did watch the game against the Bills this week right?

The "QBKilla"!

Of course. He came through in the clutch didn't he?

Cassel played like dogshit for four and 4/5 quarters.

He created the need for his own "clutch" play, which consisted of dumping the ball to a running back and hitting a wide open Moeaki on two 10-yard throws.

If Cassel had turned in one decent half of football the Chiefs win in a blowout.

Ok, so you want to base an entire game on one series. I see.

THIS

So Pioli and Haley have managed to reach 10 years of Marty/Carl results in only 2?

****ing masterful!

That's a ****ing learning curve I can live with!1!

I understand he played like dogshit a majority of the game. but if you ask me, that is not a fair way to evaluate him at this point.

The Chiefs are what they are, a running team. And I suspect they will depend on the running game for a majority of the season. Cassel is who he is, an average to solid quarterback who doesn't turn the ball over and makes the simple and clutch plays when he has to.

A lot of times we get caught up looking at the sh*tty part of his play and neglect our focus on his entire play or focusing on the bottomline. Like it or not, he does convert the throws when needed most. Quarterback play should be judged on a broader scale as opposed to a narrow scale. He has contributed in helping this team win in needed times.

*so if you're referring to him creating his own clutch plays then he deserves some credit. I also give credit to Moeaki and Charles who have been stellar in the clutch so far this year.

*shouldn't be looking at this thing as a blowout. Im sure you know the Chiefs by now, they ain't gonna blow people out. It just comes down to accepting them for who they are. But hey, they got the win. thats all that counts.

Nope just saying quarterback play should be judged from a broader scale and not a narrow scale. He came through when it mattered most.

Cassel is a funny quarterback. He's a lot like story of the elephant and the blind dudes ... the one where one blind dude touches the elephant's leg and says the elephant is like unto a pillar, another one touches his tail and says the elephant is like unto a rope, and still another touches his testicles and says the elephant is like unto his Uncle Morris ...

It all depends on your perspective. Are the Chiefs winning games? Yes. Is Cassel the quarterback? Yes. Can he dance like a little girl? Absolutely.

I wish we had a stud QB, but we don't. They can argue all they want, but we're stuck with this guy for now and sometimes he looks like a journeyman and sometimes he looks like a mud hole.

FAX

OK, so it's not fair to judge a quarterback based on the majority of the game, just one possession.

So when we needed him to make a throw in the first four quarters, where was he?

Wait, didn't you just say we should judge quarterback play based on a narrow scale, i.e. one possession? Make up your ****ing mind.

He deserves as much credit as shitbag Jake Plummer, who did the same thing in Arizona for years. Play like shit, then miracle comeback out the ass to cover yours.

Chiefs 42, Jaguars 20
Chiefs 31, 49ers 10

Would you like to know more?

ROFL

Cassel post of the year...

You have pretty low expectations.

This. And how can Collinsworth even bring up sacks? 8 total all year? Favre gets sacked that much each game. Neither brought up the fact how well he protects the ball. This is a running/ball control offense. Matt only has to throw about 20 yds each drive. Been a pretty good formula so far and he's doing exactly what his coaches are telling him to do.

That's the main problem here...

Um, I really didn't need the "Uncle Morris" visual, but OK...

It really comes down to the fact that we have to accept the Chiefs for who they are.

The quarterback is not going to win them ball games. This is a running team who will beat you by running the ball, controlling the TOP, and dictating the tempo of the game, and also playing good defense and special teams. Not turning the ball over, and playing disciplined, and fundamentally sound.

Add all that up, and realistically this team is not going to blow people out. We just don't have the potent passing attack to do that. Plus, it has to do with who they are. I see this team as a methodical team. That is part of their philosophy to methodical beat teams.

What pleases me as a fan, unlike the past, this team has established an identity for themselves. They're gonna play 60 minutes all the way, and physical beat you, and try to outsmarten you. And they play with great tenacity and will. Not once have I seen this season where they've absolutely dogged it.

It matters all the time, Mr. RedThat. That, I believe, is what people are upset about. It didn't have to come down to the last drive in that game. Not at all.

Collinsworth is right when he says that, with a run game like ours, we ought to be able to devastate enemy defenses with the play action. When you come in averaging 200 rushing yards a game, you should be able to destroy secondaries ... even with the intermediate passing game.

In my opinion, Cassel's worst attributes are his apparent indecisiveness and lack of pocket presence. If he weren't such a question mark in the pocket, his mechanics would improve and, as a result, so would his accuracy. Sadly, too often he takes the snap and turns into, what appears to be, a big giant-chinned doofus with a red shirt and a football.

But, he's not throwing interceptions. Although there have been a couple of lucky breaks in that department as well.

FAX

Today is all win...

Cassel doesn't have many opportunities to be clutch considering how often the Chiefs run the ball.

And for as much shit as Cassel gets for sputtering drives, it was actually the running game that failed to convert 1st downs on several 3rd down opportunities.

Cassel played to the game plan. When they finally had to have him lead his own drive at the end of overtime, he made plays.

Heh the only bus that cassel is driving is a pretty damn short one.

What would be nice is to see this team actually run the ball on 3rd and short instead of constantly putting the ball in Cassels hands so he can blow it the majority of the time.

We are simpatico in this regard, Mr. RedThat.

FAX

This I agree. Id like to see them run the ball more. And also not go for it on 4th down all the time, and piss away easy points. Thats frustrating to see.

I'd like Cassel to stop overthrowing wide open receivers by 10 yards.

My favorites from the last game are the bounce passes.

FAX

I've been OK with all but two of the fourth down decisions this year. What I hate is the play call on those downs. When they have 4th and one and then try to pass when our running game is gouging the other team for 6 yards per carry, why call an obvious passing play. At least go play action if you want to pass.

no shit!!!! Post of the year.

Trickism. Who would believe for a second that we would throw the football in those situations? Nobody. That's who. It would be crazy.

FAX

For the record, my name is not Morris.

LMAO and it works like a charm too. Drive killer.

He has an opportunity on every third down to be clutch.

At least they know how to spell his name correctly.

We ran the ball on 3rd and 6 or longer at least 3 times against Buffalo.

THIS.














Quit making sense GoShagCarpetBasementStalker...

Because they don't trust Cassel to make a play.

Because he shows, over and over again, that he can't do it.

The astounding thing is the empty backfield formations when we're 4th and whatever. Honestly, Weis is killing me with that stuff.

There has to be some logic to that idea ... I guess ... doesn't there?

FAX

Weis needs to stop being a pussy and just stop keeping Cassel on a leash. If Cassel is going to **** up...then let him **** up. I'd rather they take chances and go for big pass plays instead of the reeruned shit they do now. Weis is doing Cassel NO favors. Cassel sucks, but he doesn't suck to the point he averages only 200 ypg.

And then Weis chooses the dumbest times to throw risky passes. Why have most of the risky passes been on 3rd and short?

No shit. That wasn't my argument. I said he was playing to the game plan...

Morris Flopnuts. I know the guy.

The gameplan calls for him to blow every third down pass play?

True. And I can see where he and other fans are coming from. We should be destroying teams in the passing game w/ our powerful running attack. Our running game should make things easier for Cassel I totally understand. And if you ask me, I am not pleased at all with his entire play. I do think he needs to get better.

Cassel's indecisiveness, imo, is due to the fact he has bad tunnel vision. His problem is, he stares down receivers a lot. That needs to change. His peripheral vision needs to get better. But, Im not sure if that is something that could be taught. You either have that or you don't. On other hand, when he is confident to make throws, he makes some pretty decent throws. I think his pocket presence is inconsistent. Last year it was terrible, but it has gotten better in comparison to last year. He has developed some patience back there, the protection is better to give him more time to throw the ball, but it goes back to again, his peripheral vision is not that good. I think that plays a role in him having bad pocket presence, and making bad throws.

He definately has been lucky. Luck has certainly been on his side so far.

*My point was, overall he has been average. He is who he is. Has he been garbage at times? you sure bet. But at times he's been really good, and made some key throws to setup his team to win games. He has done a good job protecting the ball as well. Add all that up, and yeah you pretty much get an average quarterback imo. That is what Im getting at in looking at him from a broader scale as opposed to a narrow scale. We have to look at a lot of factors in order to judge who he really is.

Yep, the blame falls mostly with Weis. Cassel blows it but Weis set him up to fail too. For a guy that was supposedly a genius in NE he sure doesn't show it here.

Of course, he had Brady in NE too. But that couldn't possibly make him a better playcaller could it?

Being a 50 percent passer on 3rd down isn't in the gameplan.

Cassel has 10 attempts this year on 3rd and short.




....why?

This...

But its alright to base a game on a single play when it benefits the arguement regardless of player?

Okay, just wanted to know where the goalposts were moved too...

This. Cassel is only doing what Weis wants him to do.

Also, our offensive line doesn't pass protect very well in certain situations...like play action passes. We don't run very many PA passes for as good as our running game is.