I know everyone on CP hates Cassel.....
 

So, after listening to Petro's weekly PMS rant about people unfairly bashing Cassel, I started wondering. What would it take for people to actually.....LIKE Cassel? I don't know if there's a thread on this or not because I'm way too lazy to go through all of the Cassel bashing threads.

FWIW, I don't think Cassel is all that great either, but he can, at least, complete a pass once in awhile, unlike guys like Campbell.

What I think would sway my feelings toward him is to do what he did against the Broncos, only when it REALLY matters. I know it would go against our offensive philosophy, but teams are stacking the box on us so much that it looks like it has to be done.......so how about you guys?

If he throws two accurate passes in a game I'll back off.

I think it's just the killer mental mistakes that get me. Taking horrible sacks that either make a manageable field goal tough, or ones that cause fumbles.

And yeah, he's just not a terribly accurate QB. Although man, if he could recreate that deep slant to Bowe in the end zone against the Raiders I'd take that every time.

1. Doesn't rack up all of his yardage and TDs in garbage time.
2. Stops overthrowing/underthrowing his WRs.
3. Actually completes a game winning drive.
4. Stops looking like a douchebag when he's on camera.
5. Stops taking unnecessary sacks and learns when to throw the ball away.
6. Stops getting happy feet in the pocket and freaking out when there is the slightest bit of pressure.

Nothing he can do will change people's minds.

What it takes:

1) Must be drafted by Chiefs
2) Must carry team on back
3) Must have strong arm to throw bombs, otherwise will get ripped for girly throws
4) Must win multiple Super Bowls, or at least not rip KC restaurants

I will never, ever back this mother****er ever again after that Buffalo game.

He is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode.

He's gonna off like Peter North in all our faces if he starts a playoff game.

Not true. :D

Dude Clayton, you say that shit now, but if Cassel leads us on a game winning drive in the playoffs you're gonna tear every muscle in your knees from dropping to the floor to suck him off.

Cassel actually did complete a game winning drive against Buffalo.

It's not going to happen.

He's a ****ing loser.

Hasn't he done this?

7. Stop shitting himself when the game is on the line
8. Stop throwing balls 3 yds short on a 5 yard pass for a first down on 3rd down.
9. Learn to read a defense
10. Learn to progress through his recievers
11. Stop being a fail high school QB, and be the $60 Million dollar QB he is getting paid to be.

Oh, and congrats on being a few days away from a 100k.

I would love to see him do the following:
1) look off defenders
2) look at more than one potential target, every time
3) hit wide open receivers to the point of it being catchable, when the pressure is on
4) quit carrying himself like a "Nancy boy."
5) admit that he needs to improve
6) hold on to the ball when he gets sacked after not being able to make a decision

If he did these things, I WOULD be his biggest supporter. There are other things of course, many.

Start winning games because of him and not in spite of him. Consistently. Especially in the playoffs.

not true at all.

people in KC bashed the hell out of trent green in 2001.

In 2002 he turned things around because he got help around him, and he became a good solid QB to the point ''most'' people in KC liked him. Not to mention he's a class act and intelligent individual (not that MC isn't).

Point is, Green was able to improve and Cassel isn't. People are pissed off he was paid a ton of money to shit the bed.

I would qualify that with leading the Cheifs to more than one game winning drive, when it's not a no lose situation.

That drive against Buffalo was a no lose situation.

Don't let facts get in the way of a Cassel bashing thread /CP

Make proper reads and follow progressions.
Stop advertising who you are throwing to by never looking at other receivers.
Get some pocket presence.
Don't take sacks and throw the ball away.
Throw with accuracy and lead receivers rather than always throwing behind them.

The lobotomy and re-education alone would take years. I don't think we have time to fix this subject.

He needs to:

Not lock onto just 1 WR
Needs to learn when the throw the ball away
Needs to be more accurate
Needs to just not be such a ****ing moron behind center.

1. He needs to check down on WR's rather than stare down his target and tip off the defense.

2. His accuracy needs to improve dramatically on a consistant basis.

3. He stands in the pocket waaaaaaay too long, thus getting sacked and causing holding calls.

4. He throws into tight coverage too damn much (created from staring down his WR) when other options are wide the **** open.

5. His throwing mechanics are a ****ing joke when he goes through a wind up like a MLB pitcher

We don't have to have a Peyton Manning type of QB to be a legit playoff team. A Trent Green would be good enough with the running game and defense.

My memory is cloudy but didn't he have a game winning drive against PIT last year?

And this. He needs to smell the roses more than anything IMO.

Yes. He looked like Joe Montana as he dumped the ball to Chris Chambers six yards down the field.

Thus the reason for qualifying that it has to be more than one game winning drive.


Even Steve Bono made one huge late game drive in his career.

The fact is, because defenses are in prevent in most of the situations we are talking about, that is how these drives have to be engineered.

Oh yeah, definately. I saw V Young have a particulary nice game winning drive last year IIRC, and I don't want that fail anywhere near my team.

Regardless, I'm not giving credit to Cassel for a "game-winning drive" when all he did was complete one dump off pass.

Pretty much.

Win a Super Bowl. Said it the day he arrived only thing he could do to make me like him. By him becoming a Chief ****ed this team up.

Win a Super Bowl. He's getting paid the type of dough to expect that.

Right now he's the highest paid game manager in the game.

Win me a couple of games when you're asked to.

He's been asked three times this season to make something happen for his team and win us a ballgame (Indy, Houston and Oakland).

All 3 times he's failed.

If Cassel can show that he's more than a guy that is passable when things are going well, I'll get behind him.

But as it stands, Cassel is a guy that is capable of not getting in the way and that's it. Granted, that's more than I thought he'd be, but it's still not good enough.

Meh, there was still a lot of dissatisfaction with Green, primarily because he was an aging QB with an injury history that we traded a high first round pick for. Even when he did get in a groove and started putting up big numbers, people liked to look at the fact that we weren't consistently winning games, until we went 13-3, and even at that point the argument was being made that there were many QB's who could thrive with an offensive line like we had that gave him all day to throw and Priest Holmes/LJ in the backfield.

Point being, yes most people eventually warmed up to him, but he never seemed to be "loved."

I think there are a lot of people who really just want to see this team develop a young QB from the beginning. I think someone like Matt Ryan would be someone that KC would "love" as a QB, that goes without saying. But there's probably a sentiment out there that would love even more for this team to take someone hidden gem in the mid rounds, and have him come out of nowhere to become a star. If a Tom Brady happened here, they would own this town like no one else had.

I think it's quite possible that if Cassel had been drafted by the Chiefs in round 7 and he was a 23 year old in his second season playing like this on a minimum contract, the majority of fans would be fine with what's going on out there, excited that this is a hardworking guy who is putting in the work to get better and expecting an upward curve, and we'd look past a lot of the shortcomings. But that's obviously not the situation.

I think at the end of the day, we as Chiefs fans have been through so many let downs, that we want to look at our QB and see the face of the franchise and know that whatever happens, that guy gives us the confidence that we've got a great shot at winning Sunday. Right now however, we look at Matt Cassel and see a highly paid QB from another franchise who is expected to be a "game manager" while we try to win ugly. That doesn't inspire confidence, and definitely doesn't inspire the love of a fanbase...

In some fairness to Cassel, the passes he overthrew Sunday were to slow WR's like Chambers. He hits Chambers on those passes and it's picked cause Chambers cannot get any separation. I think it would help him some of we had a WR that was actually fast and could separate some. He still sucks but it would reduce the suckage.

Bitching about him and B-Rich, and then refusing to give him credit for anything makes you look like a bigger asshole by the minute.

I think there is some truth to this, but at the same time, if Cassel had come in and played like someone who had sat a learned for three years, then he might be looked on more favorably.

He should have been more advanced than he was.

I give him credit for not ****ing up a six-yard pass.

It's indicative of nothing beyond that.

I don't like Cassel at all, but that's a crock of ****ing shit.

Keep moving the goalposts, tool.

Explain then, how a six-yard pass any quarterback in the league could have completed is indicative of something else?

Cassel had a chance to win that game in regulation and did nothing.

He was lucky the defense came up with two stops in a row to give him another chance.

I can't say I have the confidence that he'll develop into a franchise QB. But to answer the question, I think that ship is sailed. It's probably not happening.

I think people finally got behind Green, but the board was a lot different then. Now it's a lot more angry, and full of people who want to be right about everything.

Watch Sam Bradford the "rookie" QB for the Rams. All he has to do is play like Bradford. The guy has nerves of steel, always makes the right pre/post snap reads, throws with zip on the ball, doesn't over/under throw his receivers, and can put the team on his back and carry them. All this from a rookie!

That is all!

I think people will start liking Cassle when D Bowe takes his head out of his ass and stops costing Cassle games and catch the fuggin passes he's supposed to catch.

With Cassels play, we should be sitting @ 7-2.

I'm not giving up on him yet.

I don't think I've ever read a more off base post than this one EVER!
D. Bowe had nothing to do with us losing 2 out of those 3 games?

Someone's not being true to themselves. :hmmm:

Two Lombardies.

The Ravens won a Superbowl with Dilfer and dumped him when they realized that continuing with him at QB wasn't a sustainable way of competing for Super Bowls. If Cassel wins two Super Bowls, I will admit my evaluation of him is flawed.

LMAO

Okay I'm not going to defend the guy but that's lunacy. Even Peyton Manning doesn't have two Super Bowl wins.

pretty much.

It's gonna rain tomorrow. cassels fault. film @ 11...

Stop killing drives by missing wide-open receivers. That would be a start.

Oh, and if he's rolling out due to pressure and about to run out of bounds, throw the ball away instead of taking the sack.

Cassel doesn't play like Manning.

The reason no one likes Cassel is that they trust their eyes when they watch him play.

In case you haven't noticed, there are some of us that critisize Manning for his playoff failures.

If he turned into Peyton Manning

:clap:

I'd rather he turned into Kurt Warner.

I'd like him if he was Mike Vick.

I don't disagree, but you have to be reasonable. The list of QB's in this free agent era that have won 2 Super Bowls is very small. Brady's really the only one that's carried more than one team to a Super Bowl win. Roethlisberger's done it but that first SB he went 9/21 or some garbage like that, he wasn't the guy he is now.

If Lindell had hit that kick, everyone would be talking about how Cassel failed to mount a game-winning drive in overtime/the 4th quarter.

I get that.

The NFL has achieved it's goal of parody(sic).

But I would rather have a number of QBs in the playoffs over Peyton Manning, including his brother.

Of the greats, the only QB I like less in the playoffs is Favre.

Stop missing wide open receivers that are right in front of him less than 10 yards down the field. Start with that. If we can go 3 or 4 games without seeing that happen I'll re-open my mind to the possibility that he might not be a colossal disaster of an acquisition.

He's playing as well as he possibly can. So the answer is: nothing.

ROFL He's still at it, huh? Unlistenable.

I'll need to see;
1) evidence of him being trusted to read a defense
2) him actually reading a defense
3) the ability to avoid pressure, and still complete a pass
4) the ability to step into a pass rush and complete a pass
5) the ability to throw accurately 12-yards +

If I begin to see those five things regularly, I'll begin to turn the corner on him. It wouldn't be the finished product I'd ideally like, but enough to show that he could one day be good enough. I'm rooting for him, but have seen none of these enough to believe he'll ever get there.

He lacks confidence and courage in the pocket.

That is the root of all his problems.

All his other issues would disappear if he were to simply grow a set.

cdcox's jury is still out on that guy.

Confidence and courage aren't what keeps him from hitting wide open receivers down the field. He is what he is. He could have balls of steel and he'd still be under/overthrowing guys by 10 yards.

If he played with confidence and courage, he doesn't have happy feet, he steps into his throws and follows through, and his accuracy issues are no longer issues.

This a criticism I can agree with. I think that's something that a guy can grow out of although it's certainly possible that he never will.

Here are the things I don't like about Cassel when I watch him play:

1. He doesn't look natural. This sounds arbitrary, but good mechanics and fluid athleticism matter. Trust your eyes. When Cassel makes a good throw, in terms of on target with good zip, he takes a big stride and throws his whole body forward. He looks more like a pitcher with his delivery than a QB. When he scrambles, he doesn't look fluid. He has good speed, but again he is a long strider and always seems to be on the verge of falling down.

2. Poor accuracy. Can you count on him to consistently make a high percentage 3rd down throw for 4 yards? Would you be comfortable with him passing on a critical 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1? If not, you are one dimensional and very easy to defend.

3. Bad touch on short passes. On a short pass it is essential to get the ball to a player so they can run with it. We've all seen the passes that sail over the head of the guy in the flat. Or bounces in front of the player 10 yards away. Or the pass that strings someone out so they get cut in half.

4. Can't progress through his reads. He's a one read QB.

5. Looks at the pass rush instead of down field. Reacts to the pass rush before it gets there.

6. Seldom makes big time throws. His best passes are to receivers that are open and usually toward the middle of the field. Take the TD pass to Bowe against Oakland. It was one of the better throws that we've seen Cassel make. But it wasn't a particularly difficult pass. Bowe was open and the pass was in the middle of the field. Good pass, but it was a routine NFL throw. When I watch the best QBs, they make throws that amaze me. They hit a very tight window. Or they throw a clothesline 30 yard out. In watching other games you see other QBs make throws every week that we've never seen Cassel make.

7. Poor deep ball. It's obvious he just heaves it up there and hopes the ball ends up where the guy can catch it.

8. To quote Solomon Wicotts "When Cassel holds the ball, bad things happen." When Manning holds the ball, or Brady, or even Michael Vick last night, good things generally happen. If you are saying that about your QB, you are not in a good situation. You want someone who can make plays.

9. He doesn't use his mobility to make plays with his arm. If you get him scrambling around, he seldom makes a big play out of it. There have been a couple of exceptions.

10. If he is progressing as an NFL QB, it is very slowly. He isn't on a trajectory that is going to get him to franchise level.

To be fair, here are the things I like about him:

1. He makes relatively few mistakes. A lot of this has to do with coaching and the game plan, but not too many QBs have the temperament to follow through with that as well a Cassel does. He follows instruction well.

2. He is resilient. He can play bad the whole game but he doesn't seem to let that get to him. He can have a good drive after playing like crap the whole game.

Maybe it's just me. but when Cassell was good with the Patriots the year Brady was out they didnt use him strictly as a pure drop back passer. there was always a shit load of screens and misdirections and draws out of the shot gun. he's not being used the same way with the Chiefs. he sucked at throwing the ball down the field with the Patriots too. and he had Randy Moss on that team.

The problem is that this is what I've been saying about Cassel since he was with the Patriots.

He hasn't grown in three years.

not true.

I've talked about this a lot in my assesment of Cassel's play after watching all of the Patriot games I could when it became apparent we were going to be going after him.

I think Gailey recognized this, but Haley didn't want to change the philosophy he brought just to hide his QB's weaknesses.

I belieev he thinks the team will be better off in the long term of he is able to develop Cassel into a traditional drop back QB.

Failing that, he'll get another QB.

At the end of the day, he's probably right.

I know Cassel isnt young, but what do you think his upside in a year or two or 3 if we keep starting him? Ive mentioned it before that i think its probably close to Matt Hasselbeck in Seattle. It took him 3 or 4 years there before he became truly solid and the team began to gel.

I think the problem with his 3rd down % comes partially from either him being a 1 read quarterback or the play design and the coaching.

He seems to not be able to make the correct decision on who to throw the ball too in short yardage situations more than he struggles to make the throw itself.

This, the whole this, and nothing but the this.

It's absolutely true. It's becoming harder and harder to argue that he doesn't have predetermined reads on almost every passing play, and the only "big time" throws he's ever completed are generally post routes where the receiver has been open by a large margin. The one exception was the phenomenal catch that Bowe made against Dallas last year.

I think there are two major things.

1. As milkman points out, confidence. I do think he's seemed more confident than last year.

2. His accuracy to make simple throws. I don't understand why people criticize him like he can't make certain throws. He's not Manning, but he has the arm to make throws all over the field. He just doesn't do it consistently and accurately. Look at that bullet he threw for a TD at Houston, or that beautiful rainbow he threw to Tucker the other day. The guy can make the throws. He just doesn't. Every single QB in the NFL makes a couple overthrows on deep balls on a weekly basis. They just don't follow it up by winging it 8 miles over Charles' head from 5 yards away.

That won't make him a franchise guy necessarily, but it'd be enough to actually win playoff games with a running game and defense.

I could see him developing into a Matt Hasselbeck type guy, meh:shake:

whatever. watched him go through reads against denver.