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Hammock Parties 11-30-2010 04:40 PM

Clark Judge loves Matt Cassel, and so should you.
 
Cassel proving to be difference-maker in K.C.

<table style="background: url(&quot;<a href=" http:="" sports.cbsimg.net="" images="" cbss="" ui5="" authors="" 70x60="" 8690.jpg&quot;"="" target="_blank"><tbody><tr><td style="padding-left: 80px;" valign="top">By Clark Judge
CBSSports.com Senior Writer
Nov. 30, 2010

</td></tr></tbody></table> Let's get this out of the way up front and admit what we should know -- namely, that the Kansas City Chiefs made the right move when they acquired quarterback Matt Cassel.

<table align="left" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="280"> <tbody><tr> <td width="280"> http://sports.cbsimg.net/u/photos/fo...mg14378801.jpg </td> <td width="15">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="280"> Matt Cassel's 2010 numbers put him among the league's elite passers. (Getty Images) </td> <td width="15">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> They thought they were getting someone who could stabilize the most important position in the game, and they did. They thought they were getting someone who was smart, accurate and reliable, and they did. They thought they were getting someone who could win, and they did. In short, they thought they were getting a quarterback they could trust. And they did.

Matt Cassel is having the best season of his career a year after he, the Chiefs and general manager Scott Pioli took heat for Cassel's underwhelming play -- with one local columnist so outraged that he characterized Cassel as "horrible."


Um, maybe not. Cassel has the Chiefs on top of the AFC West. He's won more games (7) in 11 starts than the club won the past two seasons (6). He hasn't lost at home. He leads the league in touchdown percentage. He's second only to Tom Brady in ratio of touchdowns-to-interceptions. And he's fourth overall in passer rating, ahead of luminaries like Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers and Matt Ryan.

"Matt Cassel keeps setting the bar higher and higher," coach Todd Haley said after Kansas City's latest victory.

I'll second that. It's not just that the Chiefs continue to win under Cassel's direction; it's what Cassel's done to put them in that position, and the envelope, please: Over his last seven starts Cassel has 18 touchdown passes and one interception. Let me repeat: 18 and 1, a ratio that is better than anyone -- including Tom Brady -- over that period, and tell me that shouldn't put this guy front and center of the national spotlight.

It should. Only it hasn't. And one reason it hasn't is because there's a lingering feeling that Kansas City is overachieving and, well, that the Chiefs will eventually get caught by San Diego anyway. I don't buy into the overachieving argument, but after watching San Diego dissect Indianapolis the other night I do believe the Chargers, not the Chiefs, are the team to beat in the AFC West -- basically because the schedule falls their way in December, a month where they have won their last 18.

But that's a projection. Let's look at what we know, and what we know is that Matt Cassel is everything Pioli and the Chiefs envisioned when they acquired him. OK, so it took offensive coordinator Charlie Weis and a system with which Cassel was comfortable for him to flourish. But that happens. It took Brees four seasons before he started to feel comfortable in San Diego.

No question about it, Cassel struggled last season, but let's be honest: There were an abundance of reasons. One was the change of offensive coordinators immediately prior to the season, with Cassel forced to learn on the fly. Another was the Chiefs' mistake-prone receivers, with Kansas City two flubs away from tying an unofficial record for most drops in a year (51). Still another was the team's inability to run the ball until Jamaal Charles stepped into the huddle midway through the schedule.

Now fast forward to 2010, with Weis refining Haley's system to add a few wrinkles that Cassel might have known or practiced when he was with New England. It was there that Cassel first became a starter, stepping into the lineup for the first time in nine years when Brady was hurt in the 2008 opener. And it was there he was supposed to flop. Only he didn't, leading the Patriots to an 11-5 finish.

Surprising? Yes. But that was the guy Kansas City thought it was getting when it traded for Cassel. And that is the guy it has.

Look, I don't know that kicked in this season, but it's hard to ignore the results. What I do know is that Haley worked with Cassel on being more precise in his drops within the pocket, and Cassel has responded. I also know that having the league's top-ranked running game -- with the Chiefs shredding Seattle for 270 yards -- has helped. And I know the emergence of wide receiver Dwayne Bowe -- one of those guys who last season looked more like a backboard than a pass catcher -- has been a huge plus.

In the end, though, it comes back to Matt Cassel. The Chiefs had Larry Johnson to run the ball in 2007-08, and they couldn't win. They had Tony Gonzalez to catch it then, too, and they couldn't win. And they couldn't win because they didn't have someone, anyone, at quarterback to throw the right passes, avoid the big mistakes and make the smart decisions.
Now they do.

"I think he's an NFL starting quarterback you can win with and win championships with," Pioli said at training camp last summer. "Matt adjusted to a lot of change, showed his competitiveness, resiliency and his ability. Beyond the mental and emotional (aspect) and his competitiveness, he showed the physical ability to be able to win."

Pioli was right. Kansas City is not where it is today without Matt Cassel, and it's high time the club, its G.M., its head coach, its assistants and Matt Cassel himself are recognized for what is working with the Chiefs. And what is working is their quarterback.

Adding Matt Cassel not only was a good move; it was a necessary one. And it has the Chiefs where they haven't been in years. Good for them. Good for Pioli. And, most important, good for Matt Cassel.

OnTheWarpath15 11-30-2010 04:44 PM

Patiently waiting for all the folks that have barbecued Clark Judge over the years to pop in and say, "Great article."

kcxiv 11-30-2010 04:46 PM

lol, i wont say i like Judge or anything, but Cassel and Bowe are getting recognition. Slowly but surely its happening.

-King- 11-30-2010 04:46 PM

Great Article!!

007 11-30-2010 04:47 PM

I'm still not sold on him as the overall answer and I don't give a crap what the stats say. He had his best day as a Chief Sunday but that doesn't erase everything else.

jd1020 11-30-2010 04:48 PM

I'll love Cassel when he plays a good, meaningful, game against an opponent outside of the NFCW.

kcxiv 11-30-2010 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 7213413)
I'm still not sold on him as the overall answer and I don't give a crap what the stats say. He had his best day as a Chief Sunday but that doesn't erase everything else.

whats everything else? he started off slow this season> So did Bowe. Down the stretch they started to heat the **** up.

Last year was a disaster no matter what. That shit was just all thrown together hell of fast. That was still Herms lack of direction. Thats how i look at it.

I havent been a big Cassel fan. Go look in the game day threads n i ripped him hardcore, but i cant rip him anymore and not lately.

talastan 11-30-2010 04:51 PM

I'm really kinda creeped out by all the recognition that Cassel and Bowe have gotten. I feel somewhat better when we are under the radar and not expected to do as well. Don't want the media buzz going to these young guy's heads.

ToxSocks 11-30-2010 04:53 PM

Meh. I'll wait to see how these last 5 games go.

But, at least for the last few games, he's looking like he could develop into the man.

That's all I asked for when the season started. I just wanted him to show me there was a reason to believe in him. It looks like he starting to get it.

RustShack 11-30-2010 04:53 PM

I'm still waiting for him to beat a good team on the road and\or make a comeback win when the run game is taken away.

Ming the Merciless 11-30-2010 04:55 PM

NO WAY

He is "the most dangerous QB to his own team" and also a "fraud"

Right?

Hoover 11-30-2010 04:55 PM

The one thing that he understates is the importance of Todd Haley. I know the NE connection is something that all reporters like to write about, but all Haley has done everywhere he's gone is produce pro-bowl wideouts. Haley's faith in Cassel plus the emergence of Bowe is why thing team is where its at.

ToxSocks 11-30-2010 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack (Post 7213435)
I'm still waiting for him to beat a good team on the road and\or make a comeback win when the run game is taken away.

I'd rather him not have to make any comebacks at all. If he has to make a comeback, that probably means he ****ed up somewhere in the game.

I want more games like the Seattle game. Hot out the gate and stay hot till time expires. Gimme 9 more of those this season.

stevieray 11-30-2010 04:57 PM

STALE

007 11-30-2010 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcxiv (Post 7213421)
whats everything else? he started off slow this season> So did Bowe. Down the stretch they started to heat the **** up.

Last year was a disaster no matter what. That shit was just all thrown together hell of fast. That was still Herms lack of direction. Thats how i look at it.

I havent been a big Cassel fan. Go look in the game day threads n i ripped him hardcore, but i cant rip him anymore and not lately.

He only just had his most complete outing of the season and it was against the weak NFCW. Lets not crown his ass yet.

This week was probably the only week I had no complaints about the QB position.

Hammock Parties 11-30-2010 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower (Post 7213444)
NO WAY

He is "the most dangerous QB to his own team" and also a "fraud"

Right?

Clark Judge doesn't watch the Chiefs every week. I guarantee you.

It's pretty clear he looked at some pretty stats, got a couple quotes and elaborated on his CHIEFS WERE RIGHT! PIOLI WAS RIGHT! CASSEL ROCKS! premise.

This is all exceedingly premature.

chasedude 11-30-2010 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower (Post 7213444)
NO WAY

He is "the most dangerous QB to his own team" and also a "fraud"

Right?

:LOL:

OnTheWarpath15 11-30-2010 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 7213474)
He only just had his most complete outing of the season and it was against the weak NFCW. Lets not crown his ass yet.

This week was probably the only week I had no complaints about the QB position.

ROFL

Funny you say that, my wife asked WTF was going on the past few weeks, I hadn't said anything about Cassel during the games. (Arizona, Seattle)

I told her that if he always played like this, she'd never hear a peep from me on gameday.

DaneMcCloud 11-30-2010 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 7213474)
He only just had his most complete outing of the season and it was against the weak NFCW. Lets not crown his ass yet.

This week was probably the only week I had no complaints about the QB position.

He was good against Arizona as well.

Let's face it, guy: Matt Cassel is NOT the same player in Week 12 as he was in Week 1. He has improved throughout the season and as I've said in the past few days, at times it's been one step forward and two steps back.

But on Sunday, he looked off receivers, wasn't worried about the pass rush and play a nearly perfect game, which is something I thought he'd never accomplish. And I don't mean stats, I mean watching him play with my eyes.

I think there's a very good chance that he continues to ascend, thus proving he's a late bloomer. Worse things could happen than Matt Cassel growing into a Franchise QB at age 28.

stevieray 11-30-2010 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 7213474)
He only just had his most complete outing of the season and it was against the weak NFCW. Lets not crown his ass yet.

This week was probably the only week I had no complaints about the QB position.


sucks to be you.

ToxSocks 11-30-2010 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gif Horse (Post 7213480)
Clark Judge doesn't watch the Chiefs every week. I guarantee you.

It's pretty clear he looked at some pretty stats, got a couple quotes and elaborated on his CHIEFS WERE RIGHT! PIOLI WAS RIGHT! CASSEL ROCKS! premise.

This is all exceedingly premature.

22 TD's and 4 ints are great numbers no matter how you slice it. I understand that you still have a bitter taste in your mouth, but give credit where credit is due. He's obviously doing something right.

Ming the Merciless 11-30-2010 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gif Horse (Post 7213480)
Clark Judge doesn't watch the Chiefs every week. I guarantee you.

It's pretty clear he looked at some pretty stats, got a couple quotes and elaborated on his CHIEFS WERE RIGHT! PIOLI WAS RIGHT! CASSEL ROCKS! premise.

This is all exceedingly premature.

I actually agree that it could be premature...However weren't YOU guilty of the same sort of prematurely spewing of CHIEFS WERE WRONG ! CASSEL SUCKS!!! type of posts?

He may be premature, but at least he wasn't proven wrong yet..unlike you.

Hammock Parties 11-30-2010 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 7213494)
Let's face it, guy: Matt Cassel is NOT the same player in Week 13 as he was in Week 1.

I still say he turns back into a pumpkin against the Chargers.

We can't be this lucky.

OnTheWarpath15 11-30-2010 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gif Horse (Post 7213480)
Clark Judge doesn't watch the Chiefs every week. I guarantee you.

It's pretty clear he looked at some pretty stats, got a couple quotes and elaborated on his CHIEFS WERE RIGHT! PIOLI WAS RIGHT! CASSEL ROCKS! premise.

This is all exceedingly premature.

Judge is not different than the rest of the national media.

They see box scores and limited highlights, and think they are qualified to write a piece like this.

Hell, I read Easterbrook's TMQ on ESPN.com today, and he has Pioli's nuts so far down his throat, he wrote, "Not only is the undrafted-and-waived Ryan Lilja playing well for Kansas City but Ryan O'Callaghan, waived by New England, is having a fine year at offensive tackle."

ROFL

Hammock Parties 11-30-2010 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower (Post 7213499)
I actually agree that it could be premature...However weren't YOU guilty of the same sort of prematurely spewing of CHIEFS WERE WRONG ! CASSEL SUCKS!!! type of posts?

He may be premature, but at least he wasn't proven wrong yet..unlike you.

Wins over NFC West teams do not prove that the Chiefs are not frauds.

They remain frauds until they make the playoffs and prove they belong in the playoffs.

DaneMcCloud 11-30-2010 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gif Horse (Post 7213501)
I still say he turns back into a pumpkin against the Chargers.

We can't be this lucky.

Who cares? QB's are prone to having a bad day here and there.

Having a bad day against the Chargers won't erase the progress he's made this season.

ToxSocks 11-30-2010 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gif Horse (Post 7213501)
I still say he turns back into a pumpkin against the Chargers.

We can't be this lucky.

That won't mean that he isn't making strides and getting better. SD made Manning look like ass. They're playing good all around D.

I'm expecting him to struggle against SD.

But he's getting better, and hopefully next season, he'll be ready.

ToxSocks 11-30-2010 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 7213511)
Who cares? QB's are prone to having a bad day here and there.

Having a bad day against the Chargers won't erase the progress he's made this season.

Beat me to it.

Ming the Merciless 11-30-2010 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gif Horse (Post 7213505)
They remain frauds until they make the playoffs and prove they belong in the playoffs.

You apparently still have no ****ing clue what the word fraud means. That is pretty sad considering some of the people on WPI and CP have rammed dictionaries up your ass for the last few weeks and you still don't get it.

DaneMcCloud 11-30-2010 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gif Horse (Post 7213505)
Wins over NFC West teams do not prove that the Chiefs are not frauds.

They remain frauds until they make the playoffs and prove they belong in the playoffs.

This is nonsense.

If they Chiefs win the division, they're not "frauds". If the Chiefs happen to make the playoffs at 11-5, they're not "frauds".

This is a young ascending team. It's not an old team put together for one last grasp.

And making the playoffs isn't a given for any team in the NFL, despite their pedigree.

ToxSocks 11-30-2010 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gif Horse (Post 7213505)
Wins over NFC West teams do not prove that the Chiefs are not frauds.

They remain frauds until they make the playoffs and prove they belong in the playoffs.

That's reeruned. Frauds by what standard? WE'll probably go 11-5 and miss the playoffs.

You under estimate how hard it is to win in the NFL. No win is guaranteed, especially for a team that only won 6 games on the last 2 seasons.

OnTheWarpath15 11-30-2010 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 7213494)
He was good against Arizona as well.

Let's face it, guy: Matt Cassel is NOT the same player in Week 12 as he was in Week 1. He has improved throughout the season and as I've said in the past few days, at times it's been one step forward and two steps back.

But on Sunday, he looked off receivers, wasn't worried about the pass rush and play a nearly perfect game, which is something I thought he'd never accomplish. And I don't mean stats, I mean watching him play with my eyes.

I think there's a very good chance that he continues to ascend, thus proving he's a late bloomer. Worse things could happen than Matt Cassel growing into a Franchise QB at age 28.

Dane, I agree with everything but the bolded text.

I don't see how playing two games like a legit, franchise QB means he has a "very good chance" he ascends to being a legit, franchise QB consistently.

I "hope" he continues to ascend, but I need to see a lot more evidence, primarily against good teams, on the road, carrying the team, etc before I claim he will.

007 11-30-2010 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 7213494)
He was good against Arizona as well.

Let's face it, guy: Matt Cassel is NOT the same player in Week 12 as he was in Week 1. He has improved throughout the season and as I've said in the past few days, at times it's been one step forward and two steps back.

But on Sunday, he looked off receivers, wasn't worried about the pass rush and play a nearly perfect game, which is something I thought he'd never accomplish. And I don't mean stats, I mean watching him play with my eyes.

I think there's a very good chance that he continues to ascend, thus proving he's a late bloomer. Worse things could happen than Matt Cassel growing into a Franchise QB at age 28.

I don't disagree. He has improved as the season has progressed but, until these last two weeks, he hadn't really showed me anything that impressed me.

If we tear apart the Donkeys this week, as we should, and make an impressive showing against the Chargers, win or lose, then I will start giving him some praise.

stevieray 11-30-2010 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gif Horse (Post 7213392)
And it has the Chiefs where they haven't been in years. Good for them. Good for Pioli. And, most important, good for Matt Cassel.

...and what about the fans who have waited for decades, Clark?

:facepalm:

007 11-30-2010 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieray (Post 7213495)
sucks to be you.

No argument from me today. I feel like shit today.

Ming the Merciless 11-30-2010 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 7213519)
This is nonsense.

If they Chiefs win the division, they're not "frauds". If the Chiefs happen to make the playoffs at 11-5, they're not "frauds".

This is a young ascending team. It's not an old team put together for one last grasp.

And making the playoffs isn't a given for any team in the NFL, despite their pedigree.

Absolutely and I will go a step further. Even if they 'choke' and lose to SD and do not win the division...Guess what...

They're still NOT FRAUDS.

They would have had to have been favored to make the playoffs , and not do it in order to be frauds. NO ONE was thinking we would be in the playoff hunt....We have already beaten expectations for this team...Therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE for the Chiefs to be frauds...

Clay's continued use of that word, despite these things being pointed out to him makes him look like an utter imbecile...and a very stubborn one at that.

ToxSocks 11-30-2010 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7213529)
Dane, I agree with everything but the bolded text.

I don't see how playing two games like a legit, franchise QB means he has a "very good chance" he ascends to being a legit, franchise QB consistently.

I "hope" he continues to ascend, but I need to see a lot more evidence, primarily against good teams, on the road, carrying the team, etc before I claim he will.

Last year he couldn't make those plays against anyone. Even if it is the Donkeys, Cards and Seahags, he's still making considerable progress.

kcxiv 11-30-2010 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 7213474)
He only just had his most complete outing of the season and it was against the weak NFCW. Lets not crown his ass yet.

This week was probably the only week I had no complaints about the QB position.

we were playing with back ups at the RT and LT and he not only avoided terible blocking but made HUGE plays out of them. The spin out and the TD pass to Bowe. Seattle's Defense isnt that terrible and they supposedly have a good line. Cassel handled the pressure and made plays. Early in the season he wasnt really doing that. It didnt mattter who it was against. Early in the season we were winning in spite of Matt. Now its not like that.

NO one is crowning anyone yet. At least i am not, I am just saying he has played way way way above what i thought he would be at.

stevieray 11-30-2010 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 7213511)
Who cares? QB's are prone to having a bad day here and there.

Having a bad day against the Chargers won't erase the progress he's made this season.

....got to give it up to Dane and Milkman, who have been extemely fair in this regard..

BigRock 11-30-2010 05:15 PM

Judge used to do pro-KC articles all the time, and then he turned on a dime and got all pissy once Pioli got rid of Carl's old cronies.

Scott must have taken him out to dinner.

stevieray 11-30-2010 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 7213535)
No argument from me today. I feel like shit today.


bummer...

Hammock Parties 11-30-2010 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcxiv (Post 7213538)
Seattle's Defense isnt that terrible.

It's awful.

One of the worst in the league.

Ming the Merciless 11-30-2010 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieray (Post 7213542)
....got to give it up to Dane and Milkman, who have been extemely fair in this regard..

Hard not be be fair with a huge foot in your mouth and a big helping of humble pie on the table...

OnTheWarpath15 11-30-2010 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 7213511)
Who cares? QB's are prone to having a bad day here and there.

Having a bad day against the Chargers won't erase the progress he's made this season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 7213515)
That won't mean that he isn't making strides and getting better. SD made Manning look like ass. They're playing good all around D.

I'm expecting him to struggle against SD.

But he's getting better, and hopefully next season, he'll be ready.

I like both of you guys, but the built-in excuses already?

There's no doubt Cassel is getting better.

But until he shows he can beat a good team - or beat a good team on the road - or win a game where he has to carry the team - you know the drill - there's no evidence to suggest he'll ever be good enough.

Then again, there are people here that swear up and down that Trent Green was capable of leading this team to a Lombardi Trophy based on stats, so I guess maybe what some of you expect from the QB position has lowered drastically compared to what a franchise QB actually is.

DeezNutz 11-30-2010 05:17 PM

When I was making assertions that this team needed to be 8-8 or GTFO, many said these expectations were unreasonable.

Now, we have an opportunity to do much, much more and our expectations should accelerate, too.

That said, we've already met expectations of where this team should be in year 2, and we're almost certainly poised to exceed them.

DaneMcCloud 11-30-2010 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7213529)
Dane, I agree with everything but the bolded text.

I don't see how playing two games like a legit, franchise QB means he has a "very good chance" he ascends to being a legit, franchise QB consistently.

I "hope" he continues to ascend, but I need to see a lot more evidence, primarily against good teams, on the road, carrying the team, etc before I claim he will.

I definitely think he will continue to ascend. He's improved exponentially over the course of this season and as long as Charlie Weis returns, I expect him to continue to get better.

Will he be a guy that can carry a team week in and week out? At this point, I think the answer is "no" but I think that's difficult to predict. He has shown the capacity to become a very, very good game manager, which is something I didn't think he was capable of doing in September.

So I guess the question at this point is, how high is his ceiling? I don't have that answer but I have far more confidence in his abilities than I ever expected after his last two showings, despite the level of defensive talent he faced.

He did all the "right" things, which was really cool to see.

Pants 11-30-2010 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 7213494)
He was good against Arizona as well.

Let's face it, guy: Matt Cassel is NOT the same player in Week 12 as he was in Week 1. He has improved throughout the season and as I've said in the past few days, at times it's been one step forward and two steps back.

But on Sunday, he looked off receivers, wasn't worried about the pass rush and play a nearly perfect game, which is something I thought he'd never accomplish. And I don't mean stats, I mean watching him play with my eyes.

I think there's a very good chance that he continues to ascend, thus proving he's a late bloomer. Worse things could happen than Matt Cassel growing into a Franchise QB at age 28.

Goddamn it. I'm just so reluctant to let my hope for him swell... I really don't want it to come crashing down on me and crushing me once again.

OnTheWarpath15 11-30-2010 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 7213537)
Last year he couldn't make those plays against anyone. Even if it is the Donkeys, Cards and Seahags, he's still making considerable progress.

And I've said as much. He has made progress.

Is it enough?

We won't know until he either plays at this level in a huge game, or on the road, without a running game, etc.

Otherwise, we're right back to square one:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing
But he's getting better, and hopefully next season, he'll be ready.

I don't want to HOPE this team can count on its QB.

I want to KNOW if this team can count on its QB.

007 11-30-2010 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcxiv (Post 7213538)
we were playing with back ups at the RT and LT and he not only avoided terible blocking but made HUGE plays out of them. The spin out and the TD pass to Bowe. Seattle's Defense isnt that terrible and they supposedly have a good line. Cassel handled the pressure and made plays. Early in the season he wasnt really doing that. It didnt mattter who it was against. Early in the season we were winning in spite of Matt. Now its not like that.

NO one is crowning anyone yet. At least i am not, I am just saying he has played way way way above what i thought he would be at.

Meh, the crown his ass comment was really just tongue in cheek. I'm not trying to discount his progression, just that we haven't exactly been playing teams with outstanding defense.

The pressure is on Matt now, and so far he seems to be handling it well. These next 5 games will tell us all we need to know about him.

jd1020 11-30-2010 05:19 PM

Yes the Chiefs are 7-4. Yes if they win their division they deserve a playoff spot. But look at who their wins have come against. Chargers, Browns, SF, Jags, Bills, Cards, Seahawks. Both the Chargers and Browns were not the same team they are today and we barely won both of those games. I think this team is getting alittle overhyped thanks to their easy schedule.

kcxiv 11-30-2010 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gif Horse (Post 7213545)
It's awful.

One of the worst in the league.

hmmm.. its now what i been hearing from various pod casts. I havent looked up any stats, but supposedly they weren't that terrible and the Chiefs were going to lose going into Seattle because thier 12 man and how hard it was to win there. They have only lost one another game at home this year and that was due to them having a 3rd stringer at QB that game. Was against the Giants i believe.

DeezNutz 11-30-2010 05:21 PM

No question that this league is schedule driven.

Winning begets confidence, so this might off-set some of the challenges that are bound to occur next year. Plus, we're still allowed to participate in the draft, and I believe we're allowed to be involved in FA, possibly (with many variables here).

kcxiv 11-30-2010 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 7213565)
Yes the Chiefs are 7-4. Yes if they win their division they deserve a playoff spot. But look at who their wins have come against. Chargers, Browns, SF, Jags, Bills, Cards, Seahawks. Both the Chargers and Browns were not the same team they are today and we barely won both of those games. I think this team is getting alittle overhyped thanks to their easy schedule.

We arent the same team as when we played the Chargers and Browns. So now what?

Ming the Merciless 11-30-2010 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 7213565)
Yes the Chiefs are 7-4. Yes if they win their division they deserve a playoff spot. But look at who their wins have come against. Chargers, Browns, SF, Jags, Bills, Cards, Seahawks. Both the Chargers and Browns were not the same team they are today and we barely won both of those games. I think this team is getting alittle overhyped thanks to their easy schedule.

I don't see anyone overhyping the team...Is it the local media? Certainly national media is not. Most people I know and things I read describe the Chiefs as what they are - rebuilding, no real chance in the playoffs but might make it TO the playoffs...if they can fend off SD down the stretch.

OnTheWarpath15 11-30-2010 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7213554)
When I was making assertions that this team needed to be 8-8 or GTFO, many said these expectations were unreasonable.

Now, we have an opportunity to do much, much more and our expectations should accelerate, too.

That said, we've already met expectations of where this team should be in year 2, and we're almost certainly poised to exceed them.

Exactly.

Which is why is drives me nuts to see people say, "no one expected us to be 7-4. No one expected us to be in 1st place."

And?

That doesn't mean that because I mis-judged their abilities, that whatever happens from here on out is gravy because they've met/exceeded expectations.

kcxiv 11-30-2010 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7213579)
Exactly.

Which is why is drives me nuts to see people say, "no one expected us to be 7-4. No one expected us to be in 1st place."

And?

That doesn't mean that because I mis-judged their abilities, that whatever happens from here on out is gravy because they've met/exceeded expectations.

For me it does. I didnt expect this to be a fun season to watch. It hass been. We have been in every single game going into the 4th quarter, hell we been tied or had the lead in every single game outside of the Denver game going into the 4th quarter.

Do i want this team to do more? absolutely, am i going to rant moan and groan if they dont? Nope.

jd1020 11-30-2010 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcxiv (Post 7213577)
We arent the same team as when we played the Chargers and Browns. So now what?

How arent we? We've played 2 terrible teams 2 weeks in a row and we ran it down their throat. Thats how we've won all year.

007 11-30-2010 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7213554)
When I was making assertions that this team needed to be 8-8 or GTFO, many said these expectations were unreasonable.

Now, we have an opportunity to do much, much more and our expectations should accelerate, too.

That said, we've already met expectations of where this team should be in year 2, and we're almost certainly poised to exceed them.

Hell, I already consider this a successful season regardless of whether we make the playoffs or not. We have made huge strides. all they have to do now is back it up and improve on it.

patteeu 11-30-2010 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 7213494)
He was good against Arizona as well.

Let's face it, guy: Matt Cassel is NOT the same player in Week 12 as he was in Week 1. He has improved throughout the season and as I've said in the past few days, at times it's been one step forward and two steps back.

But on Sunday, he looked off receivers, wasn't worried about the pass rush and play a nearly perfect game, which is something I thought he'd never accomplish. And I don't mean stats, I mean watching him play with my eyes.

I think there's a very good chance that he continues to ascend, thus proving he's a late bloomer. Worse things could happen than Matt Cassel growing into a Franchise QB at age 28.

I agree with everything you say here.

I think we'll see a step back when the Chiefs face a team that puts pressure on Cassel early. I think that's the kind of thing that affects him and reverberates for the rest of the game. My game plan for facing Cassel would be to come hard at him early in the game and make him feel the heat.

I think that over time, this can be remedied both through improvement in the pass protection and continued toughening of Matt Cassel's mind, but I don't think it's completely accomplished yet. What the past few weeks have done though is demonstrate that it's not a matter of a weak arm or poor mechanics or inability to process more than one receiver.

OnTheWarpath15 11-30-2010 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower (Post 7213578)
I don't see anyone overhyping the team...Is it the local media? Certainly national media is not. Most people I know and things I read describe the Chiefs as what they are - rebuilding, no real chance in the playoffs but might make it TO the playoffs...if they can fend off SD down the stretch.

Are you kidding?

People here were talking playoffs weeks ago.

People said there was no way we'd lose to Oakland or Denver.

People continue to think our remaining home games are gimmes.

DaneMcCloud 11-30-2010 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7213575)
No question that this league is schedule driven.

Winning begets confidence, so this might off-set some of the challenges that are bound to occur next year. Plus, we're still allowed to participate in the draft, and I believe we're allowed to be involved in FA, possibly (with many variables here).

A rush backer, NT, center and WR (not to mention depth) should help to overcome any fear of the Chiefs "falling back to earth" because of the 2011 schedule.

ToxSocks 11-30-2010 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7213562)
And I've said as much. He has made progress.

Is it enough?

We won't know until he either plays at this level in a huge game, or on the road, without a running game, etc.

Otherwise, we're right back to square one:



I don't want to HOPE this team can count on its QB.

I want to KNOW if this team can count on its QB.

Eh, Can't really argue with you about that. When I came into this season, I had NO HOPE at all for Matt Cassel. He was terrible. The worst actually.

But he's getting better. And now i can actually have some faith in him.

I honestly don't think we'll see what you want to see until next season. He's getting better, but I don't think he's ready to carry the team yet.

It looks to me like he's finally understanding the offense, knowing where players are supposed to be. And his footwork has improved.

I never thought i would see his accuracy improve. I was wrong.

All I can do is hope that continues to grow, because he'll be back next season.

kcxiv 11-30-2010 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 7213591)
How arent we? We've played 2 terrible teams 2 weeks in a row and we ran it down their throat. Thats how we've won all year.

Because we now have a quarter back that can throw the ball we now have a WR. that the Quarterback believes in. I dont know about you, but that is ****ing HUGE.

Games against the Chargers and Browns, we didnt have that, we relied strickly on our running game. When we dropped back to throw the ball EVERYONE i mean EVERYOne cringed. Was it a sack or a interception is what we thought. WE arent the same team, and if you think we are, open your ****ing eyes.

DeezNutz 11-30-2010 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7213579)
That doesn't mean that because I mis-judged their abilities, that whatever happens from here on out is gravy because they've met/exceeded expectations.

We have to take advantage of a golden opportunity, and it will be a damn shame if we don't.

There are some similarities here to the arguments about the "evaluation year" in '09. Some were pissed at a wasted year, while some saw it was an unavoidable step.

Overall, I'm going to be happy about this team's progress in '10. If we piss away these final 5 games and an opportunity at the playoffs, however, I will be worried about next year, when our schedule will certainly be dramatically more difficult.

Oh, and SD isn't going to go away because they have a pretty important position on lock.

(not trying to start stuffs)

DeezNutz 11-30-2010 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 7213599)
A rush backer, NT, center and WR (not to mention depth) should help to overcome any fear of the Chiefs "falling back to earth" because of the 2011 schedule.

This looks like the type of Christmas list I sometimes assembled as a kid--far reaching.

patteeu 11-30-2010 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcxiv (Post 7213538)
we were playing with back ups at the RT and LT and he not only avoided terible blocking but made HUGE plays out of them. The spin out and the TD pass to Bowe. Seattle's Defense isnt that terrible and they supposedly have a good line. Cassel handled the pressure and made plays. Early in the season he wasnt really doing that. It didnt mattter who it was against. Early in the season we were winning in spite of Matt. Now its not like that.

NO one is crowning anyone yet. At least i am not, I am just saying he has played way way way above what i thought he would be at.

I don't think Seattle's defensive line was very good. I agree that Cassel did a good job of avoiding what little pressure they did get though.

Ming the Merciless 11-30-2010 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7213595)
Are you kidding?

People here were talking playoffs weeks ago.

People said there was no way we'd lose to Oakland or Denver.

People continue to think our remaining home games are gimmes.

Well the exception doesn't make the rule.

The few homer morons don't mean the team is 'overhyped' in reality.

jd1020 11-30-2010 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcxiv (Post 7213605)
Because we now have a quarter back that can throw the ball we now have a WR. that the Quarterback believes in. I dont know about you, but that is ****ing HUGE.

Games against the Chargers and Browns, we didnt have that, we relied strickly on our running game. When we dropped back to throw the ball EVERYONE i mean EVERYOne cringed. Was it a sack or a interception is what we thought. WE arent the same team, and if you think we are, open your ****ing eyes.

My eyes are wide open. I've seen a comfortable QB taking advantage of a #1 run offense the last 2 weeks against god awful defenses. Denver stuffed the run 3 weeks ago and Cassel couldnt get 1 first down. We dont know what we have yet. All we know is that there is a POTENTIAL for something. Every player that is drafted has ****in POTENTIAL.

Hoover 11-30-2010 05:30 PM

I love how we all want the Chiefs to develop a young QB, and then when it actually starts to happen before our eyes we have a bunch of jag bags who bitch because well he sucked at the start of season, or sucked all of last season.

Face it, some of you would have never had the patience to coach guys like Payton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, and basically any other QB

The position takes time to learn in the NFL, and here we have Matt Cassel entering into the prime of his career and people want to bitch about it because they just hate to be proved wrong. I know, I know, its easy always being the guy who finds fault with everything.

OnTheWarpath15 11-30-2010 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcxiv (Post 7213590)
For me it does. I didnt expect this to be a fun season to watch. It hass been. We have been in every single game going into the 4th quarter, hell we been tied or had the lead in every single game outside of the Denver game going into the 4th quarter.

Do i want this team to do more? absolutely, am i going to rant moan and groan if they dont? Nope.

There's no way to say this nicely, or sugar coat it, so...

I guess that this team, and their performance means more to than others than it does to you.

With that said, if I thought this team wasn't capable of making the playoffs or making a run, then yeah, I wouldn't be all that upset.

But I believe this team CAN, if they play to their potential.

So I'll be damned if I lower my expectations now, when the team should be raising theirs.

Hammock Parties 11-30-2010 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 7213618)
Denver stuffed the run 3 weeks ago and Cassel couldnt get 1 first down. We dont know what we have yet.

This x1000.

I will say, however, that the opening drive against Seattle, which featured almost 0 contribution from the running game, gives me hope.

If Cassel can take pressure off the running game like that consistently there's no telling how good the offense might be.

OnTheWarpath15 11-30-2010 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower (Post 7213617)
Well the exception doesn't make the rule.

The few homer morons don't mean the team is 'overhyped' in reality.

A few?

C'mon, man.

ToxSocks 11-30-2010 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7213614)
This looks like the type of Christmas list I sometimes assembled as a kid--far reaching.

How so?

These are obvious needs that can't and won't be overlooked. I don't think we'll get that NT that we're looking for, but im positive we'll see a OLB and a WR in the first 2 rounds.

I think we'll see:

OLB
WR
C
RB
S

For sure.

007 11-30-2010 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcxiv (Post 7213605)
Because we now have a quarter back that can throw the ball we now have a WR. that the Quarterback believes in. I dont know about you, but that is ****ing HUGE.

Games against the Chargers and Browns, we didnt have that, we relied strickly on our running game. When we dropped back to throw the ball EVERYONE i mean EVERYOne cringed. Was it a sack or a interception is what we thought. WE arent the same team, and if you think we are, open your ****ing eyes.

I think you actually mean, was it a dropped pass or poorly thrown.

DaneMcCloud 11-30-2010 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 7213594)
I think that over time, this can be remedied both through improvement in the pass protection and continued toughening of Matt Cassel's mind, but I don't think it's completely accomplished yet. What the past few weeks have done though is demonstrate that it's not a matter of a weak arm or poor mechanics or inability to process more than one receiver.

I'm really beginning to believe that Matt Cassel's biggest problem comes from sitting on the bench for seven consecutive years.

In many ways, it's like the guy is a third year player. I didn't want to admit it last year because in reality, it's a silly notion to think that a 28 year old is a third year player. But he wasn't recruited to play at USC because he sucked and he wasn't drafted by the Patriots because he sucked and he wasn't traded to the Chiefs because he sucked.

I think the guy has the genuine ability to be a solid if not spectacular NFL QB, but what he's needed desperately is playing time.

Look, I wouldn't be as high on him if he was playing at the same level as last year or even through the first six games but he's moved beyond that. And while he's most certain to have one bad game down the stretch (if not two), he appears to be a guy that learns from mistakes, forgets and moves on.

Regardless of stats, he still has a ways to go but if the Chiefs can finish 4-1 and possibly hit the playoffs, the guy will be an even better QB in 2011.

The Bad Guy 11-30-2010 05:33 PM

Dane is the voice of reason in this thread. I agree, if he does lay an egg in SD, it won't diminish what Cassel has done so far.

If Cassel fails at San Diego, the same usual suspects who have ripped him every chance they get will come out in droves.

Whereas, they typically make backhanded compliments when he plays well, or show up days later to offer their "support that he keeps playing well".

But the minute he ****s up again, they will be all over this board bitching. One day he's called the worst starting QB in the NFL, then a few weeks later people, the same people complaining, want him to perform like an elite QB.

It's comedy gold.

kcxiv 11-30-2010 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 7213618)
My eyes are wide open. I've seen a comfortable QB taking advantage of a #1 run offense the last 2 weeks against god awful defenses. Denver stuffed the run 3 weeks ago and Cassel couldnt get 1 first down. We dont know what we have yet. All we know is that there is a POTENTIAL for something. Every player that is drafter has ****in POTENTIAL.

YOu will NOT dominate every game. Even the mighty mighty Patriots have lost and lost bad this year. I think twice, Jets put a thumping on them and so did the Browns. Even earlier in the year when we played shitty teams, Cassel and Bowe were still not doing much. I firmly believe that Denver game was just one of those fluke games. Young team that had to much confidence and got their chin checked. It happens to all young teams.

This team has still competed with even the good teams it has played. We just never found a way to close it out. We have closed it out even if its against bad teams. Remember the previous 3 years. We just lost lost lost lost. Didnt matter who it was. Shitty team? ****, we made them look good. REAL good. WE made shitty quarterbacks/running back/wide receivers look like hall of fame players. YOu had a defense that was struggling? Play the Chiefs, that will get them going. Thats NOT the case anymore. AT ALL!.

Hammock Parties 11-30-2010 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover (Post 7213622)
The position takes time to learn in the NFL, and here we have Matt Cassel entering into the prime of his career and people want to bitch about it because they just hate to be proved wrong.

People are bitching because they don't believe it's real.

They don't want to get their hopes up just to be disappointed.

It has nothing to do with wanting to be wrong or right. Believe me, I want to be wrong.

In the end though, I can't lose, because I was gaga over Matt after the trade. :evil:

DeezNutz 11-30-2010 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 7213631)
How so?

These are obvious needs that can't and won't be overlooked. I don't think we'll get that NT that we're looking for, but im positive we'll see a OLB and a WR in the first 2 rounds.

I think we'll see:

OLB
WR
C
RB
S

For sure.

How? Because those (NT and OLB) are extremely difficult to fill for a 34, with far more teams running this defense.

Can we get a complimentary WR (what happened to our HOF second rounder from '10? should there be another apology thread?) and a C? I should hope so.

OnTheWarpath15 11-30-2010 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7213608)
We have to take advantage of a golden opportunity, and it will be a damn shame if we don't.

There are some similarities here to the arguments about the "evaluation year" in '09. Some were pissed at a wasted year, while some saw it was an unavoidable step.

Overall, I'm going to be happy about this team's progress in '10. If we piss away these final 5 games and an opportunity at the playoffs, however, I will be worried about next year, when our schedule will certainly be dramatically more difficult.

Oh, and SD isn't going to go away because they have a pretty important position on lock.

(not trying to start stuffs)

I'm quoting this post to show my agreement with its contents.

Nailed it, Deez.


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