|
Justin Houston, Aldon Smith, Ryan Kerrigan
Let's chat about these passrushers, in which there is some remote possibility that one of these three will make it to our pick.
Which ones do you like, which ones don't you like. And why. I haven't seen too much Mizzou on tape just yet, so I'll let someone else comment on Smith. Houston definitely has that wow factor, but at this point he's kind of a one-trick pony. He's a speed demon around the edge and he stacks up all his stats on bad teams. I haven't seen any sacks where he swims in, spins, or bullrushes. He just bolts around the corner -- which is intriguing as an OLB (I'd say, of the three, he's the best fit there), but that athleticism is something you can't teach. Moves, you can teach. Kerrigan I'm not sold on yet, but again, I never seem to like passrushers in the draft. He has a little of that Tyson Jackson feel to him -- like he can be good, but he'll never be a game changer. He doesn't have that explosion in him that the other two seem to have. |
I'll also say this about Houston: he has a Jared Allen-like enthusiasm in the run game. I really do like the kid, which is saying something. I just fear he's a one-trick pony.
Kerrigan I think is much inconsistent in the run game. |
Quote:
|
Smith is one of the most athletically dynamic players in the draft. He is simply an athletic stud. His major red flag, however, is durability. Every injury he's had can be excused as "freak," but when you've had enough of those...
If he's there in the first, it would be a fantastic risk-reward scenario. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Really, imo, it all depends on which direction the Patriots want to go with the 1st pick. If they don't go OLB then I think either Ayers or Kerrigan drops to 21. I think Houston will be there. |
Smith will blow up after the combine, IMO.
|
Yep, to all of the above. I'll be really surprised if Smith isn't a top-15 pick.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Chiefs will never get a chance at him... unless something crazy happens, like a run on tackles and QBs or something. |
Hopefully Smith blowing up leads Akeem Ayers right to our pick.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZSG8ETv7_ts" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8tgUEH45e30" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YdbClyp3vdc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
Quote:
|
Ayers is a prototypical 3-4 ILB, not an OLB.
We don't need another placeholder on the field at that position, we need a ferocious passrusher. |
Quote:
|
Is Ryan related to Sarah?
|
Quote:
|
Can Aldon Smith stand up and play as a 3-4 OLB?
|
Quote:
Honestly, he's a good enough athlete that he could likely be a high-quality TE. |
Houston is an enigma, I wish i'd paid more attention to him this year....he can look like hell fire coming around the corner, but i don't know how well rounded he is or what his upside is..
but this 'he piled up stats against bad teams' rap is unfair....he played in the SEC, a bad SEC team is a hell of a lot more talented than a bad team in another league..say KU for example and he had two of his best games against South Carolina and Auburn... |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
Hali is not someone you want in coverage. |
Smith is a much better prospect and an equal athlete to Jason Pierre Paul. If he were to even start to slip, they should make a concerted move to go after him.
Smith is a very versatile pass rusher. A lot of guys are just speed around the edge, but he has a variety of moves, and does a really good job getting across the face of a tackle. Many times, Steckel would move him inside to DT on passing downs, where he was equally dominant and disruptive. |
I really don't see Aldon Smith getting past Detroit. Put him and Suh on the same line, and damn you got a passrush. He fits their defense to a T.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Detroit was still ****ing stupid to pass on Oher. If Stafford's healthy, Detroit is a 10 win team this upcoming season.
|
Quote:
|
****, if Smith fell id pick him. Anyone who doubts his potential just go watch the tape that knowmo posted. Explosive is an understatement.
|
I want some Ryan Kerrigan. This Guy has a history of getting to the QB plus has more than just an around the edge move. Best of these 3 and ayers for that matter against the run. Has Young Vrabel written all over him. Lets hope he has an average combine
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
(Do not mistake this as me in any way being a fan of Illinois or anti-Mizzou - I still wish they'd gone undefeated...). |
Quote:
If Smith isn't there, Ayers should be the pick. The Chiefs need a solid, strong side backer that can cover tight ends (do Antonio Gates and Zach Miller ring a bell?) and be a complete OLB, not a one-trick pony. |
Quote:
Lol and by young Vrabel i guess i should have said in his prime Vrabel lol Kerrigan is a plug and play guy. No waiting neccisary |
People get carried away with sacks.
It would be nice to get an edge rusher opposite Hali, hell it's necessary, but that guy has to be versatile. He's got to set the edge on the rush, he's got to play the run, and he has to be able to cover a TE. |
Actually, if we had a second guy who was of a decent size and could get pressure on the QB, we could run far more nickel packages with Hali and the LOLB playing the role of pass rushers next to Dorsey and another DT.
Green Bay uses this package to a great extent, and Pittsburgh uses it quite a bit as well. Then you let guys whose bread and butter is covering TEs and WRs actually do it. Pass rushing has a positive effect throughout the entirety of a defense. |
Quote:
|
Playing in both the SEC and as an OLB in the 3-4 makes Houston the player of the three with the least downside. On the other hand Aldon Smith would seem to have the most upside but wow, he's also scary because I'm seeing similarities there to Aaron Maybin ?
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
If Ayers is "coachable" (and I have reason to believe otherwise), he'd be a great compliment to Hali and an excellent defensive addition. |
Would love to see one of these Mizzou first rounders go to the Chiefs. Not sure if that pick would make sense for us or if we would even be able to get it but it would be fun having Smith around.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
Smith was the BXII Freshman of the Year his first year and 1st team all conference his second year on a bum wheel. Smith also has the frame to add 20-30 pounds. He's also a really good run defender, something that could never be said for Maybin. Aaron Maybin had 12 tackles his freshman year. 12. How does that qualify as a really good year? He played at about 225-230 in college and had to jack some serious gas just to get around 250 for the combine. He doesn't have the same kind of frame to add on weight like Smith does, who is already north of that weight. Go back and watch the Iowa bowl game. That was the healthiest Smith was since he hurt his leg in the SDSU game. He's the only DL that gets consistent pressure, and if any of his LBs had been able to maintain gap discipline, the Iowa running game would have been far less successful. He was in the backfield on multiple occasions, particularly in the second half, when rushing from a 3 technique position. That's something Maybin could never do. If you want to compare Smith to someone, then you could compare him to Jason Pierre Paul. They are the same kind of athlete, Smith is just a much better football player. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
I'm looking forward to next weeks Combine to get a good look-see at the physical specimen and his athletic ability. |
Quote:
If Smith had stayed for his Jr. year, he'd be a lock for a top 5 pick in 2012. He wasn't nearly as heralded as DaQuan Bowers, but he was a much more consistent producer in a far harder league. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
with Houston or KC ? This is off subject, but since I'm talking 3-4 vs 4-3 how's Glenn Dorsey doing ? Obviously he's a natural 4-3 3-tech DT, so I wondered how he's contributing in the Chiefs 3-4 ? Dorsey was the best defensive player in the best conference (SEC) in not one but his last 2 years in college, but I know he's fallen a 'bit short of expectations in KC ? |
Quote:
|
Quote:
I know some 3-4 defenses will build around 2 pass-rushing OLBs, but not the system KC uses. If we end up with 2 pure pass-rushers, we'll get beat up pertty badly in the run game and in the short passing game because of how we use our safeties and ILBs. Ayers is an ideal fit to replace Vrabel. If we needed to replace Hali, a guy like Smith would be fantastic, but that's not the role we're looking for. We need an OLB that operates well in coverage, in open space and against the run to complement Hali. We don't need (or want) just another Hali. That just wouldn't work very well. Ayers can do all those things and actually provide an occasional threat as a pass rusher, at least enough to be a credible threat in the eyes of opposing OCs. If we go OLB, Ayers is the absolute best case scenario for our defense, IMO. |
Quote:
And tell me about KCs gap-responsibilty for its down-linemen in their 3-4, i.e., do they have one or two gap responsibility ? |
KC is a two gap defense.
As far as the responsibilities, the more pass rushers you have, the better. Look at what Pitt and Green bay did in the SB (yes, they are different D's). Because they had multiple OLBs who could get after the QB, not only could they run a base set (3-4), but they were able to use their OLBs as DEs in a nickel package (4-2-5). They were able to get a rush and have the extra DBs on the field to cover 11 packages (3 WR sets). |
Hey guys...first post in here.
Personally, I really like Justin Houston. Living down south and being married to a family of Georgia fans, I have had an opportunity to watch Houston closely. I really think he has the potential to be a very good all around 3-4 outside linebacker. Keep in mind that both Aldon Smith and Ryan Kerrigan have experience as college 4-3 defensive ends, while Houston played 4-3 defensive end and 3-4 outside linebacker (last year), so he has some familiarity with the basic assignments and responsibilities. While he is known for his pass rushing, I do think he has an underrated all-around game. He has sideline-to-sideline range and very good athleticism to track the play and get through the trash. I do think he could improve in disengaging from blocks while moving toward the ball carrier. Aldon Smith arguably has one of the highest ceilings of the 4-3 defensive ends that also project to 3-4 outside linebacker. His is very raw and has relied on his explosiveness and superior athleticism to make plays. He doesn't have the understanding of technique yet largely due to his inexperience, so there is some caution that he may never reach his substantial potential if he doesn't make the necessary adjustments and grasp the mental aspects of the position. As you guys mentioned, I don't think Smith will be on the board when we select at #21 because in the end, I think he could fit in either the 4-3 or 3-4 scheme. Personally, I think he could possibly be a better fit as a pass rushing 4-3 defensive end provided a team has some patience with him and can use him in pass rushing situations. Ryan Kerrigan is an intriguing prospect. He doesn't jump out at you with his athleticism like Smith, but he has an excellent motor and has a good awareness of how the play is unfolding around him. Some might call me crazy, but I could see him fitting in as a 3-4 outside linebacker in the scheme that the Chiefs and Patriots employ. He reminds me of a more athletically gifted Mike Vrabel. I wouldn't be shocked if the Patriots grabbed him with their higher first round pick - if he is still on the board. I am very interested in seeing how he does at the combine in the agility drills as that will go a long way in showing if he has the versatility to play in either scheme. He did show up at the Senior Bowl at around 255 lbs., and that shows me that he is trying to showcase his abilities to play in either scheme. An option I wanted to throw out there outside of the first round is Arizona defensive end Brooks Reed. He showed very good explosiveness and athleticism at the Senior Bowl and actually has some very good workout numbers coming to Arizona out of high school. Like Kerrigan, he is known for his motor and tenacity along with a pretty good repertoire of pass rush moves for a college player. If he performs well at the combine in agility drills, I could see him moving into solid second round territory. I think he is a name to keep an eye on should the Chiefs go in a different direction in the first round. |
Quote:
Who ya got at NT, WR and along the O-Line? |
Quote:
The answer to those positions for me is really a combination of the draft and free agency. As far as nose tackle goes, personally, I like Phil Taylor. I think when it is all said and done he will have the talent and potential to warrant a first round pick. The key will be if he can show teams that he has matured and is ready to take his opportunity in the NFL seriously. Whenever a player has some character concerns (however small they may seem to most), it always is an issue to look into because you never know how a player will react when he has an NFL contract and NFL notoriety. If we added Phil Taylor in the first round (preferrably after trading down a couple of spots) I wouldn't have a problem at all because it would mean that Pioli and company would feel comfortable enough that Taylor has turned the corner so-to-speak and put his off-field issues behind him to commit first round money to him. As for wide receiver, I really like the idea of adding a veteran opposite Dwayne Bowe. In the Baltimore game it was pretty obvious to me that our receivers could get absolutely no separation from the coverage - and the defensive scheme could roll to Bowe in coverage. Breaston has experience with Todd Haley, and although we obviously don't know what type of working relationship they had, the familiarity could be a positive for the Chiefs if Breaston hits the market. If he checks out medically, I think he would be an excellent free agent addition. His experience would be a definite plus and his consistency would be much needed - he just knows how to get open. I wouldn't expect Breaston to explode statistically, but his ability to get open over the middle and in the intermediate passing game could take some pressure off of Bowe and combine with Tony Meoaki to give us another reliable target. The next target in upgrading the passing game would be to find a deep threat to further open things up in the middle of the field. I would look at finding a middle to late round developmental wide receiver to try and fill this role. On the offensive line, I would look to find a long term solution in the draft at the center position. I don't think Ryan Kalil of the Panthers or Lyle Sendlein of the Cardinals will hit the free agent market. A player I like in round 3 (round 4 might be too late by the time we pick) is Tim Barnes from Missouri. From what I have heard he is a hard worker and has a good reputation as a solid teammate. This is just from what I have read in various places. I would like to see us re-sign Barry Richardson at right tackle, but to bring in some competition. A player I like to fill the role of competition/depth at right tackle is Tyler Polumbus. An undrafted rookie free agent originally signed by the Broncos, he has experience in the zone blocking scheme during his time with the Broncos. I have inquired about Polumbus to Seahawks fans and while they admit he isn't necessarily someone you want starting a full season at right tackle, he does bring value for the depth he provides. Another possible mid-level free agent I would really like to see the Chiefs show interest in is Miami Dolphin defensive end Tony McDaniel. They have a log jam at the defensive end position, but when McDaniel has played, he has been solid. He is noted on their NFL.com roster as a nose tackle and when I asked some Miami fans, they mentioned he has rotated at both defensive end and nose tackle when needed due to injury, although they admitted what I suspected - he is much better suited to play defensive end. Because of the situation in Miami with several players vying for playing time, I do think McDaniel will be the odd man out, but not because they don't want him, but because combined with the depth at that position, they also have to consider retaining nose tackle Paul Soliai. I really would like to see the Chiefs bring in someone to compete with Tyson Jackson. I am not a big fan of Jackson, but having someone on the roster who will compete with him could light a fire. And there is one thing that I will definitely credit Pioli and Haley with - if a player performs in practice and works hard, he will have a shot to get playing time and start regardless of who they are. Another name I like as a possibility at defensive end is Ray McDonald. I prefer McDaniel, but either way, I would like someone to add to the rotation, provide depth, and help motivate Jackson to step it up. I didn't mean to hijack this thread.....sorry. |
Quote:
The Panthers won't use the tag on him, and there's nothing to indicate they, or he, have shwon any urgency to get a deal done. I also think the Dolphins will be losing Soliai. Those would be my primary targets in free agency, along with a WR like James Jones who can stretch the field. You've got some good thoughts here, and I certainly wouldn't bitch if we took the path you've laid. Don't worry about hijacking the thread. Good football posts are always welcome. |
I agree, good football takes are always welcome.
So is snarky.. |
I'll add a bit to the discussion I suppose.
I'd love to see us add Jones from GB, but Breaston from ARI would be a great get too. Even in picking up a #2 WR in FA, I'd still like to see us draft one as well. And if the right guy was there, say Julio Jones (dream on), I wouldn't be opposed to drafting a WR in the 1st. That would give him some time to grow, and not be expected to be a stud right out of the gate. On the D-line we need more bodies, period. Smith and Dorsey both have proven they belong, and Gilberry seems to be a great rotational guy. Jackson has shown some possibility, but we won't really know, and can't render final verdict until this season. He needs 3 years, and if he shows the same progression Dorsey has (which most of us doubt) that'd be fantastic. We clearly need 2-3 more players for our D-line rotation. I'd like to see us grab a FA NT (Solai or Rogers) say, and still draft another. Again, instant contributor and a guy who can grow into the role. Would not hesitate to take a NT at 1, if the right guy is there. Where the NT's rate don't ask me, I'm not smarter than a Pioli. O-line we need more bodies obviously there too. The biggest need is C, Kahlil would be a great move. Drafting one capable of starting day one would be pretty good too. Either way we need at least 1 T, 1G and 1 or 2 C's. Not all of them need to be starters, but we do need a C who can start. I'd also love to see Asamoah start, maybe for our "Pro-Bowl" G Brian Waters. More beef and strength in the middle would help this team out a ton. A good C will do way more for us than a great RT would. I would be remiss if I didn't mention that our O-line is shit, mainly because Waters can't get out of his stance and Asamoah is forced to play LT by default. Plus Richardson sucks worse than Albert, who's worse than anal wart soup for dinner. Also of huge need is LB. In my mind we need at least 1 LB at each position. We need an OLB that's not so much a pass rusher, but we need another pass rusher too. We have 1 LB that can rush the passer, God help us if Hali ever gets hurt. We could use another ILB too. Realistically, all of this stuff above will have to come together creating a defense worthy of the 2000 Ravens if we're ever going to turn into a Super Bowl winner. Our biggest need is QB, but there's 0 hope that'll be addressed this year, save a jackpot discovery a la Tom Brady. Considering that's happened 1 time in this history of the league, I suppose our chances are pretty good. |
Quote:
(I favor brevity) |
Quote:
|
I feel like everybody is too busy liking you to properly welcome you to ChiefsPlanet:
Suck on my taint-hairs, assnugget. May your mother die of canceraids. There. Continue. Also, rep. |
By the way, Soliai would be an excellent get. He's a young guy looking for his second contract.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
Welcome aboard. |
Quote:
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PiwuZT5hXlg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
The Combine definitely was not kind to Aldon Smith. This is a guy who was supposed to be one of those physical/athletic freaks who wowed all of those spectators at the Combine comprised of large numbers of NFL coachs & scouts, yet he comes away with a SLOWER 40 time than both Houston & Kerrigan. Yikes ! Justin Huston on the other hand was a very big winner - weighs in at 270 lbs yet runs a sub 4.7 40.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
He just hasn't looked right since his broken leg. His speed never really came back and he was a non-factor through almost the entire conference season. I thought he should've stayed in to prove he was healthy. However, if his speed's not back by now, it might not ever come back. If that's the case, he was probably wise to come out early before the scouts saw that his speed wasn't going to return. I could be reading too much into a combine workout, but he simply didn't look very good after his leg injury last season. |
Aldon has mad physical skills. I think he can develop into a very good pass rusher...he's not that yet. He's nowhere close to being a good run stopper...he's weak at the point of attack, but he can run things down. He's a work in progress, but if a team is willing to make the investment and use him in the right situations, I think he'd be effective right away. If you throw him out there immediately and hope he can be a three down guy, he won't be. As for him being a stand up 3-4 backer? He could pass rush from that position just fine. He did drop back in some zone blitz situations for MU last year and even intercepted a pass his first game back from his leg injury. I wouldn't ask him to get involved with pass coverage in the NFL.
|
Quote:
He does need to get stronger. |
Would much rather have Aldon Smith over the other 2 names you listed
|
Quote:
|
I agree Gorilla...one more year in college would have done him wonders. However, it is what it is. I hope Aldon goes to a team that can develop him gradually, instead of relying on him from day one.
|
Unofficial #'s I found. I'll put Moch first because his 40 time was raved over and can be a point of comparison for straight line speed vs. burst/change of direction.
Moch (248lbs) 4.44 forty, 1.61 10yardsplit, 7.09 3 cone. Smith (263) 4.78 forty, 1.78 10yardsplit, 7.14 3 cone. Acho (262lbs) 4.68 forty, 1.60 10yardsplit, 6.69 3 cone. Kerrigan (267) 4.71 forty, 1.65 10yardsplit, 7.18 3 cone. Reed (263) 4.68 forty, ??? 10yardsplit, 7.11 3 cone. Ayers (254) 4.80 forty, ??? 10yardsplit, 7.49 3 cone. Houston (270) 4.68 forty, ???? 10yardsplit, 6.95 3 cone. |
Quote:
|
If I was Smith, I'd immediately have someone film me doing 14 backflips in a row. That would lock down any rumors of athletic inadequacy regardless of combine numbers.
|
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:12 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.