ESPN's Bill Williamson Ranks AFCW's Top 40 Players
 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post...n-the-afc-west


1. Philip Rivers, San Diego: He is an elite player at the most important position on the field.

2. Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland: There’s a reason he’ll be the top prize in free agency.

3. Jamaal Charles, Kansas City: One of the NFL’s most dynamic young players.

4. Antonio Gates, San Diego: He should end up in Canton.

5. Tamba Hali, Kansas City: One of the NFL’s best defensive players.

6. Dwayne Bowe, Kansas City: He is a game-changing talent.

7. Richard Seymour, Oakland: Respected veteran changed Oakland’s defense.

8. Vincent Jackson, San Diego: Expect a strong rebound in 2011.

9. Ryan Clady, Denver: One of the game's premier left tackles.

10. Champ Bailey, Denver: Even at 33, he is special.

11. Eric Berry, Kansas City: He should be the game’s best safety soon.

12. Nick Hardwick, San Diego: An anchor to a strong offensive line.

13. Darren McFadden, Oakland: He is developing into a star.

ROFL => 14. Matt Cassel, Kansas City: Cassel has to continue to make strides.

15. Zach Miller, Oakland: He can make Oakland’s offense special.

16. Derrick Johnson, Kansas City: He is a serious playmaker.

17. Quentin Jammer, San Diego: Solid veteran is an anchor to a good defense.

18. Kris Dielman, San Diego: A steady hand on the Chargers’ line.

19. D.J. Williams, Denver: He is a tackling machine.

20. Marcus McNeill, San Diego: He’s an upper-echelon left tackle.

21. Shaun Phillips, San Diego: He is one of the division’s best pass-rushers.

22. Brandon Flowers, Kansas City: One of the game’s best young cornerbacks.

23. Eric Weddle, San Diego: A hard-nosed playmaker at safety.

24. Glenn Dorsey, Kansas City: He came on strong in 2010.

25. Tommy Kelly, Oakland: Massive defensive tackle had a big season in 2010.

26. Elvis Dumervil, Denver: If Dumervil bounces back from sitting out in 2010, he should be ranked higher next year.

27. Rolando McClain, Oakland: McClain has a chance to be one of the division’s better linebackers.

28. Brandon Lloyd, Denver: Lloyd came out of nowhere for a special 2010.

29. Shane Lechler, Oakland: The game’s best kicking specialist.

30. Ryan Lilja, Kansas City: A gritty, tough veteran guard.

31. Malcom Floyd, San Diego: He can make the spectacular catch look easy.

32. Brian Waters, Kansas City: A great veteran presence on a good line.

33. Jason Campbell, Oakland: Oakland will be depending on Campbell a lot this season.

34. Kamerion Wimbley, Oakland: He can get sacks in bunches.

35. Tony Moeaki, Kansas City: Second-year tight end is a player to watch.

36. Lamarr Houston, Oakland: He has a chance to be special.

37. Antonio Garay, San Diego: He had a strong 2010 season at 31.

38. Ryan Mathews, San Diego: He showed flashes as a rookie.

39. Michael Bush, Oakland: He and McFadden form a nice tandem.

40. Thomas Jones, Kansas City: He can still help the Chiefs at 33.

KC 12
SD 12
Oak 11
Den 5

Flowers is the most polished, most consistent, and effective veteran on this team.

Period...

No Tim Tebow?

There WILL be HELL to pay...

Kyle Orton should have been on that list over Jason Campbell.

Exactly... but for some reason, many Chiefs fans think Hali, Berry and even Carr are better right now.

Could be those 15 sacks :shrug:

Didn't Dan Williams do that as well?...

Welcome to Chiefsplanet.

No, Dan had 10 sacks 1 year. Tamba has averaged over 8 per year since being in the league and amost 12 per year since the move to the 3-4.

I think Flowers is rated lower that he should be, but the fact remains that he was outperformed by the Chiefs ahead of him on the list last year, even if it was the result of injuries. Assuming he's healthy for all of 2011, he'll end up in the top 5-10 if the same list is made in 12 months.

Flowers' consistency is unquestioned.

He's also as solid a tackler at corner as any in the league right now, and what he lacks in pure speed he makes up for with great natural instinct.

He is, however, more limited physically than the three players mentioned, and DJ still has untapped natural talent.

Those guys have higher ceilings, and should they put it all together, can be game changing playmakers.

Hali has touched that to some extent, but he is still learning and improving after his transition to OLB in this defense, and DJ finally started to show.

Carr has made strides in his two seasons, and Berry's upside is through the roof.

There must be more to Eric Weddle than meets the eye.

Other than the guards and Thomas Jones, our guys are all young, too. That's really nice.

Thomas Jones was one of the NFL's very worst running backs last season. But he's better than Brandon Carr, who is a legit top-20 cornerback in the NFL?

I'm not sure he's better then Jackie Battle right now.

No, he wasn't...

When Flowers is healthy, he is arguably the best defender in the AFCW.

He is superb in coverage and is equally as effective in run support. He is also smart and well prepared. There are only two receivers (Jacoby Ford and Andre Johnson) that have gotten the best of him and one of them (Andre Johnson) got some lucky breaks by the refs to do so.

Thing is, for a little less than half of last year he wasn't healthy and his play dipped a little because of it.

He will likely be one of the top couple defenders on these lists next year if he can avoid the injury bug.

Flowers has reached, produced consistently at, and been very productive at his full potential as a CB.

No one, NO ONE else on this team (save a declining Waters) can say that...

It's the Bicep Effect. In any pickup game in any sport, the guy with big biceps will get picked earlier than he warrants.

my objective analysis (trying to remove homerism from the picture) of the chiefs on the list (and the ones NOT on the list)

ranked too low: brandon flowers and brandon carr (criminal that he's not on the list).

ranked too high: matt cassel (though he could go higher if he has another good year) and thomas jones (shouldn't BE on the list).

the rest are about right, really.

guys from other teams that I question... champ bailey, antonio gates (he's freaking injured too much to be that high), nick hardwick/kris dielman/marcus mcneill (all three are good, but not top 20 good), quentin jammer (way too high--solid doesn't=top 20), ryan clady (he's coming off of injury--be interesting to see if he comes back as good as when he was healthy), ryan mathews (what did he REALLY show as a rookie?!?)

there are others, but those are the only ones that pop out to me.

Yes, he was.

We can keep doing this all day if you want.

Based on numbers (sacks, INT's, etc.) or production?

Passes defensed, times thrown at, etc?...

Let me get this straight: you're claiming that Jamaal Charles did NOT have a better season than Brandon Flowers?

everyone outside of KC loves matt cassel

Eric Hicks did...

Brian Waters ranked too low

Whoa. I didn't even notice Ryan Mathews on the list, just like I never noticed Ryan Mathews during Chargers games.

I am not saying that he hasn't.

I am simply pointing out that there's a lot of talent on this team that hasn't, and that's why there some disagreement.

Where are the great Kevin Vickerson and Robert Ayers?

I won't argue that players like DJ, Berry, Hali, Bowe, and even guys like Belcher and Gilberry have more upside. More physical talents.

But they haven't put it all together. They don't have their complete game down yet.

Flowers is a James Hasty. He isn't flashy, he doesn't put up big numbers, but he prevents completions by any means necessary.

Consistently. And he's a spectacular tackler.

When you consider his size he's playing above his ability...

Well, I was joking about going all day, but if you want an answer, I'd say that it's based on watching the games last season. His injuries clearly hobbled him. Carr appeared to be a better corner for most of the season, particularly in the second half of the year, which is why his complete absence from the list is curious. Flowers was not I thought, for the majority of the year, what he was the first couple of games. I don't disagree that he can be James Hasty, but the fact remains that once he got hurt, he just wasn't the same. Although I thought he was still very good.

And I don't think he's playing above his ability at all. He's exactly the player I thought he would be when they drafted him. Maybe in a perfect world he's an inch taller, but I think that's overblown. The guy's a football player. He was at Tech and he is here.

Carr is a more talented player. He's gifted, but less......polished.

It reminds me a lot of the Hasty/Carter days.

Flowers doesn't have the strength or size of a Hasty but he plays that polished, mature role. Carr doesn't have the pure talent and limitless upside Carter had but he's got the bigger upside and unrealized potential.

This could be THAT KIND of secondary.

Berry has the talent to be better than any safety we've ever had. And we've had some damned good safeties.

All I'm saying is that, AS OF NOW, none are more valuable or polished than Flowers.

Flowers is a player NOW. Probowl contender NOW.

Jammer is underrated He's well above solid and while he's not a Nnamdi, he's almost up there with Champ right now in terms of coverage and is a more punishing tackler.
Ryan Mathews was probably picked based on potential.

I was simply talking on-field performance last season. Flowers was not a better player then, not by midseason. I think the larger factor, as I mentioned, was Flowers being slowed by injury, but Carr made a great deal of progress.

If you ask me which one will be better in 2011, I would assume Flowers, if he's healthy.

I think he is playing above his scouted, perceived ability, just a little bit. He was pegged by scouts before the draft as a cover-2 specialist, as a guy who can be lockdown for 10-15 yards from the line of scrimmage. That's why he was available in the 2nd round, and likely why the Herm/Tampa 2 Chiefs took him. As evidenced by his marvelous play last season before he got hurt, Flowers has transcended that cover-2 specialist perception. He's capable of playing at a high level in a scheme that lots of scouts didn't see him playing in.

Jammer is being punished by the media for not being the standout they expected.

I think if Marty was still HC he'd be getting much better publicity...

I love how Bronco Billy never gives the criteria for his lists.

Yeah, he's taken a lot of time to develop considering he was a 5th overall pick.

I love Flowers, but I hope not.

Carr does have more upside. I'd hope we could find a way to pull it out.

Even with the f'ed up offseason and perhaps non-preseason...

Well, you know me and my opinion of 'draft experts'. I loved the pick at the time.

At least I think I did.

Man just think if we had Rivers. We would own this next decade so easily it wouldn't even be close.

Nobody wants Rivers. Didn’t you hear, he’s a whiney bitch.:drool:

You see this truth in the great sport of poon chasing.

if CoMo keeps it up Cassel should have a fine season

The next in a long tradition of super bowl losers.

Like Marino, Payed-a-ton (thank God his defense showed up in the 59th minute,) Elway (how many did he lose before he won one?)

Rivers is a bitch. He'll always be a temperamental bitch.

But he's a super-talented bitch with a helluva' arm...

Marino and Jim Kelly weren't bitches.
Favre's a bitch.

It's a shame that Hali didn't have better coaching at the start his career.

Kelly was never a bitch.

Marino was the classic example of a bitch. Retired a loser bitch.

Deserved it.

**** Marino.

Farve was a pampered fan-favorite but he earned his way. **** a drug problem, most QB's had one to stay standing up before him.

His streak won't be broken.

EVAR...

If Manning isn't the most overrated QB in the NFL ever, then Farve is.

imo Kelly was a scrappy guy like Steve Deberg

You win.

Manning definitely is.

Right behind Marino - the original Manning...

I love Deberg, he's one of my all time favorites, but he's nowhere near Kelly's level...

oh yea, i was just talking about their scrappy attitude not their talent levels.

Then again, Kelly has a ton more to work with ... better system and talent.

Man we could have had a hell of QB if you could put DeBerg's heart and heat in Grbac's body.

Not that bad of a list, Flowers should be higher IMO. Orton should be on there was well, he's much better Campbell.

Manning is very overrated IMO. He benefits greatly from 9 guaranteed indoor games a year, sometimes 10-12. He rarely has to play in real football weather and his stats are extremely poor when doing so.

Aikman was overrated in the sense that he was throwing behind maybe the greatest o line ever and had lots of other talent around him. But, on the other hand, we'll never know how good he would have been under pressure because he never had any, so it's hard to hold that against him.

I wasn't around to watch him play, but I've seen some sick clips of Fran Tarkenton from the 70's, and he looked like an absolute monster. From what I've seen and heard that guy could do everything, and did do everything but get a ring.

I disagree. Aikman for the most part was very underrated.

seriously?

Heat?

We all bitch about Cassel, but he does have heart.

LMAO Nice

how so?

repostx10000000000000011111111111!!!!!!!1


people been saying that shit for year ... Grbac was such a pussy.


Hochevar is the same imo

I don't have a huge ranking because he is that valuable to the team. Cassel is a good game manager and the team loves him. He just can't throw for accuracy or distance, and he shit the bed in the playoffs. We could do a lot worse, but he'll probably never get us to a super bowl, which is what makes everyone here want to can him.

I'm still giving him one more year (since we have to anyway). If he improves as much this year as he did last year, he'll be good enough to get us to the promised land with the rest of the team we're putting around him. But he has to make big strides.

Colquitt should be on this list.

In 2009, Cassel was a 4 on a scale of 1-10.

Last year, I think he improved to a 7.

If he shows the ability to improve to a 8, we will return to the playoffs and make some noise when we get there.

Deberg was an easy guy to root for. He had a lot of guts playing through injuries, (i.e. broken pinky). Kinda' reminds me of when Rivers suffered a torn ACL in the 2007 NFL playoffs and played the AFC Championship game prior to his surgury...
... but he wore a knee brace so he's a whiney bitch.:p

Cassel is an average type QB

He's overpaid all to hell but other than that the only real issue is that we need to be trying draft/develop his replacement as of yesterday.

The problem is to do that either you go big (first round) or you have a pretty low chance of success (Croyle, Blundin, Elkins, etc.). And even if you go big there's no guarantee, especially since we don't expect to be drafting in the top 5 again for a while.

It's a tough spot. I think your happiest path at this point is to pray Cassel develops into a playoff-winning QB. If not then maybe we can grab a Carson Palmer and/or draft someone.

"Greener grass/morans" etc.

unless you have an Aaron Rodger type guy on your roster you need to be drafting a QB every couple of years. We didn't do that until this year with Stanzi. We took too long imo. In a couple years if Stanzi doesn't show up then we need to try again and if an unexpected talent ever drops to you in the 1st round then you grab them regardless.

You know a lot about that.

1) his pay for the two years after 2011 are nothing for a starting quarterback in the NFL. It should allow us to continue to make moves. And before someone comes out with the "I bet they extend his deal soon" ...players for Piolis teams play out there deals.

2) you do know that we drafted the great Ricky Stanzi, right?

yes I think he is
and I think flowers was rated to low
on KC teams he would be one followed by berry at 2 and jcharles at 3
(|I have a defensive bias)

You think Thomas Jones is better than Brandon Carr and claim to have a defensive bias?

:facepalm:

Too bad like the Bengals game this season, he has come up short when it counts.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7...layoff-resumes


Maybe I’m alone in this opinion, but I think Philip Rivers is wildly overrated.

Exhibit A: His career playoff record is 3-4.

Exhibit B: He has never played in a Super Bowl.

Exhibit C: His career playoff stats are as follows:

Game 1 (Loss, 24-21 vs. New England): 14-32, 230 YD, 0 TD, 1 INT.

Game 2 (Win, 17-6 vs. Tennessee): 19-30, 292 YD, 1TD, 1 INT.

Game 3 (Win, 28-24 vs. Indianapolis): 14-19, 264 YD, 3 TD, 1 INT.

Game 4 (Loss, 21-12 vs. New England): 19-37, 211 YD, 0 TD, 2 INT.

Game 5 (Win, 23-17 vs. Indianapolis): 20-36, 217 YD, 0 TD, 1 INT.

Game 6 (Loss, 35-24 vs. Pittsburgh): 21-35, 308 YD, 3 TD, 1 INT.

Game 7 (Loss, 17-14 vs. NYJ): 27-40, 298 YD, 1 TD, 2 INT.

For those scoring at home, that’s at best three solid performances in seven postseason games.

The prosecution rests.

I disagree in the sense that you should be trying for a QB "every" year, not "every couple of years."

Guys like Stanzi don't get grace periods. They show something or they get the **** out.

By 4, I assume you mean 44 (out of 46). He was ****ing trash.

Last year, however, showed that he deserves more time and the benefit of the doubt...for now.

What does "guys like Stanzi don't get grace periods" mean?

You think that if a rookie qb doesn't light up preseason, the team should immediately move on?

Quarterbacks take time and this class hasn't had the benefit of coaching throughout the offseason.

Not trying to make any excuses...I think Ricky will be able to step in and move the offense, but will also make some mistakes...just asking for a bit of clarification.

you've got to have three, right? Might as well.

It means late-round roster filler, which he is.

I'd hope, and assume, that he's better suited than Croyle to serve as a backup. But the window for 5th-round picks is (and should be) considerably smaller.

There's a reason why he was a day-three selection.

And "show something" does not equal "light it up."