Exposed
 

What else can you really say? This is a terrible football team.

What does it portend? That's a little harder to say.

1) I was willing to grant Haley some slack after the disastrous season opener, but seeing how this team responded, and how it has responded the last four games, he needs to be a dead man walking. The problem with Haley is the problem that happens with any hothead, whether it's Lou Piniella, Bobby Valentine, or Mangino: no one wants to play for, or listen to a prick when they are losing. If he could command respect it's one thing, but being a failed golfer who got into the NFL through daddy connections will kill him in a situation like this. It's the height of irony, really.

That team has a lot of quit in it.

2) Pioli may be one of the luckiest men in the NFL if this team is as bad as it looks right now. His own mismanagement of the team could literally cause the franchise to fall ass over teakettle into Andrew Luck, a pick for which he would take all the credit.

3) Romeo's defense is antiquated. You can't sit back and wait for a QB to pick you apart in a league where corners can't jam and you only have one legitimate pass rusher. This team needs to be shooting gaps and leaning on its corners, not expecting the linebackers and safeties to cover down the field or in the seams.

4) The telephone game is one of many things killing the offense. You can't say that multiple relays/filters is a good idea in a situation like that. It's one more potential area for failure. You don't need four sticks of RAM that have the same total capacity as two would.

5) The injuries have been disastrous, but you can't dodge that bug forever. I read an NFL preview on Grantland where Bill Barnwell pointed out the staggeringly low number of games lost by the Chiefs last year. This is the unlucky flip side of that coin. Given the schedule and the lack of focus, it's not the worst of all possible breaks to have it happen this year.

What can you say, really?

A lot of this stems from the 2009 offseason. By trading for Cassel in February, Pioli effectively passed on both Stafford and Sanchez. He hired Haley, a guy who looks daily more like the Reno airshow, and he made possibly the worst pick in Chiefs history at #3, and followed it up with maybe the worst draft in Chiefs history.

The ideology behind the roster construction is totally bankrupt, so it's hard to have much of any faith at this point.

Watching that game was like watching the rape scene in Irreversible.

We can't go back.

I put this on the same level as drafting Gholston.... Whoever wanted to draft him should have to wear that Bust like a Scarlett Letter...

Spot on, as usual.

Zing!!

How did Pioli pass on Stafford? Sanchez, yes, but I don't know how he effectively passed on him.

Really, I would rather see Palko out there and go 0-16.

Pioli's dithering has costed us.

How could Pioli have ever thought Cassel would be a future franchise QB? He knew him better than anyone.

Kinda hard to pass on Stafford when he was taken two picks before.

Besides, both of the QBs you listed aren't the best from the 2009 draft...

At this point it doesnt hurt... I cant see this team getting any better, especially with the Injury bug showing up...

But if you are going that route. For go Plako and put in Stanzi..

Amazingly enough, I don't get paid for my football decisions, and yet the results would largely be similar to someone making $5 mil a year.

I'll put it in other words. I'll bet you make a fraction of what Pioli does. It doesn't take terribly long to learn what you do, I have a basic understanding of what you do, I've taken a Basic Aviation course, and yet I'd guarantee the gulf in results between me flying and you flying is far beyond that of me picking players and a guy making $5 million.

Think about that for a second.

If you can't see that disconnect, I don't know what to tell you.

Beats me...

LMAO


wow

Within striking distance of a trade up, and trading for Cassel eliminated even the possibility of entertaining the idea.

The Lions wouldn't want to make their fans(whatever remained of them after 2008) pissed by trading down for a guy who started one season at USC.

There's a whole ton about the Cassel trade that I hate and will continue to hate, but eliminating the possibility of trading up isn't one of them.

If the Chiefs wanted that QB, they could have just taken Sanchez.

Oh, Pioli also passed on Freeman, who BTW rallied his team from 17 down today....

Or the best QB from the draft, Freeman.

When you trade for a guy in February before another guy who was not a lock #1 is taken in April, you've passed on him.

It's pretty clear who Pioli thought his QBOTF was, and it was clearly established that Stafford and Sanchez were #1 and #2 for QBs in the draft.

There's a reason why the Lions also negotiated with Aaron Curry and other players at #1.

With that old pay system, I think it's reasonable to think that Detroit would have seriously considered swapping #1 with #3 had we sweetened the pot with something like our #34.

I don't understand why people prefer Sanchez over Freeman.

Don't give me that shit the he has been to two consecutive AFCCG.

And drafting Sanchez would guarantee that we don't draft Luck. Good thing that didn't happen.

Lions had two first round picks in 2009, there was talk about them trading the 20th overall to New England for Cassel and taking Jason Smith #1.

I doubt anyone does.

But they didn't because Mayhew is a good GM.

After going 0-16? No way.

Is portend a word? I feel dumber after reading your post.

SOLID REPORT

I actually know a number of Lions fans. I used to live around there, and several were apoplectic that they didn't draft Smith or Curry.

They should be happy now. Because so far, Smith and Curry have been shit.

This occurred to me today, also. Our defense is far too passive. We have a pathetic pass rush and it is killing us. You simply cannot give offenses that much time in today's NFL. You cannot do it.

I really don't think it was reasonable to suggest Detroit would've traded out of that pick. I think all that other stuff was posturing.

The question is where does the franchise go from here? There is a young core of good players that are locked up for a while. However,two of those players may never be the same with ACL injuries. The whole copycatting the patriot way seems like a fail. Its one thing to emulate what the pats have done, but Cassel was a bad decision.

Apologies. I googled it and portend is in deed a word. You are much smarter than me.

This could be taken two ways...:)

This isn't 1990. The odds they'll have a full recovery are somewhere around 95% from what I've read last week.

I think they may well have been posturing wrt Curry negotiations, but if faced with the chance to gain an extra second and save $15+ mil, I think they would have seriously considered trading down. We can't really know, though.

The mistake was not taking a quarterback in the draft.

I swear, if we are in position to draft Luck in April and pass or trade out of the pick, I might have to quit caring.

Sounds like they have alot in common with our fan base.

The 3-4 Defense is a giant failure. It's time to go to the 4-3. Hope fully they could at least stop the run with Powe's fat ass in there.

No.

Somone refresh my memory about Haley again and how he got hired. Pioli is related to Parcells? Haley and Pioli have both worked for Parcells in the past? Would Haley have gotten hired by another team as a HC eventually?? I dont remember any other teams interested in him besides us.....Haley was the only guy who never came from the Patriots tree, so he was always the "wildcard" in this whole plan.

Haley might have been hired by another team eventually.

Haley worked under Parcells with the Jets and Cowboys.

Where'd you go, ReeTodd_KC

Haley probably would have eventually been hired as another team, but I don't think that he would have been hired by a team without tree connections, as I don't think that he has a personality necessary to be a HC for guys making millions.

What makes this is even more awesome is you're a mod calling him that LMAO

Powe has been inactive both games.

Let's not go overboard here. Haley was a coveted coach and I think it's a little convenient to say this team gave up because Haley is a dick. Let's not use the convenient argument that Haley was only hired because of "the tree."

Haley's been effective at coaching some areas, and he's made a few mistakes here and there. But you can only coach what you have on the field. And when you take away Moeaki and Berry, this team is average at best. When you take away Moeaki, Berry, and Charles... this team is downright ugly.

I'm fine with the 3-4.

But I'm really questioning if the 2-gap version is out-of-date. Switch over to 1-gap or Zone Blitz.

You could have summed all that up by just saying Matt Cassel sucks.

I agree. The only playmakers on both sides of the ball. Moeaki was also Cassels safety blanket. FUK U Jon Baldwin.

He was? By who other than the Chiefs?

Granted, it was only the media hyping him up, but even before the Chiefs entered the head coach picture, he was touted as an up-and-coming coach because of the Cards' Super Bowl run. He wasn't interviewed by many teams because teams generally don't poach coordinators in the middle of a Super Bowl run.

It's a little of that, and a little of just shitty luck striking at the wrong time.

What makes me more okay with the timing of all this is t hat clearly we're not getting to the Super Bowl with Matt Cassel. And if there was ever a year for the Chiefs to be in the QB sweepstakes, this is the year.

Yep. I'm just terrified Pioli will pass on Luck.

Sad but true

The vast majority of the pub Haley got run for was the fact that he was irascible and always argued with players, whether Warner (well publicized), Boldin, or others.

C'mon man. The reason Haley got publicity is because Warner, Boldin and Fitzgerald gushed over the guy. Keyshawn Johnson gushed over the guy. Steve Breaston wanted to come back to Haley for cheap. If I'm not mistaken, Warner and Fitzgerald are still very close to Haley to this day.

You're twisting the facts. By all accounts, Haley was extremely well liked in Arizona by his players.

And I'm sure his publicity had just a little to do with the fact that he coordinated a Super Bowl offense.

At this point.....I want the entire coaching staff gone. Crennel's defensive schemes are horrible. Muir never should have been hired. Haley doesn't have enough sense to keep his nose out of offense.

My favorite play today was right before half when Cassel ran around for 10 minutes and then took a sack instead of wobbling the ball to the 15 yard line on a hail mary play.

Did you see Haley after that happened? He was yelling at Cassel to just throw it up there.

Apparently Matt was waiting for someone to get open on the hail mary.

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

The Chiefs with Green and the best O-Line in the game could never execute a Hail Mary.

This looked exactly the same.

Yep, Haley was in disbelief.

The Trent Green Chiefs hail mary was always a screen pass to the RB who would run for 20-30 yards and then get tackled.

The Chiefs overpaid for Steve Breaston. 5/25 for a 3rd WR with a smaller cap?

The Boldin-Haley argument got a lot of publicity right after the NFC Ch., and the Haley-Warner argument earlier that year also brought a lot of attention to him.

What I was talking about more than anything was what Todd Haley was known for. He wasn't an offensive "genius", he'd coordinated very few games, he was known for his clashes with players.

I'm not.

While I've been disappointed in Pioli thus far, I don't think he's stupid. I think he's just whiffed on evaluating some players. Namely, Tyson Jackson & Matt Cassel.

But don't you think if you were to inject some truth serum in Scott right now he'd admit "Yeah Matt Cassel isn't very good."

Take that line of thought and here right in front of you is the consensus #1 pick. The best QB prospect in years. I just can't see him passing. He might miss on evaluating some players. But he's not stupid. That move would be stupid.

Could you imagine the revolt if that was the case? Wow.

Anyone think Rob Ryan would be a good HC?

I like Romeo, but I hate to say that his scheme is probably outdated. Then again, there's also reason to believe that his bend-don't-break scheme might actually work if he had a real offense to support it. I think it's unfair to blame Haley for all this. The offensive gameplan was working really well until Charles went down. And to be fair, we're asking him to work miracles on a QB who frankly isn't very good.

This isn't a terribly talented team. Losing Berry, Charles, and Moeaki is devastating to a good team. It is suicide for an average team like the Chiefs.

We can't always blame the coaches. They have to coach what they're given to work with.

Doesn't matter, relative to the Chiefs.

I don't want a bend-don't-break defense though. I want an attacking defense that scares the shit out of teams.

I want to see a defensive minded HC that can find a competent OC to run the offense.

Yes, because in the last decade we ran it so well. Are we back to 2008. At that time we couldn't wait to get into the 3-4 and now that we have it you want to go back. Some of the best defenses in the league are 3-4, but its just too passive how we are running it now. The rules have changed since Romeo was the DC for a Super Bowl champion. The Pats also had a better line than we do. We have perhaps one serviceable lineman right now. Going back to the 4-3 puts Hali back at end where he was less than spectacular as well. Our problems are only multiplied by our big hole at safety.

I don't think there was a single person who said Breaston was overpaid at the time he was signed. $5M per year in a contract they can easily cut any time they choose is a decent deal for either party.

As for what he was known for... you can't bring up his clashes without bringing up the fact that players have an insane amount of respect for him. Warner and Keyshawn go out of their way to gush about his coaching. And let's not act like he just got credit because he shouted. He had a terrific track record coaching up receivers and most people felt that the Cardinals' offense looked really flat (even with Warner) the year after Haley left. And again, he was the offensive coordinator during the Cardinals' Super Bowl run and, yes, it's widely known that Whisenhunt gave him true coordinating responsibilities.

Don't sell short his resume to support your argument. Haley was a well respected coach with a strong track record. He's made some mistakes, but he's done some really good things despite not having a whole ton to work with. I'm a lot more pissed at Pioli than I am with Haley. To me, the two biggest flaws in the Chiefs are the Quarterback and the two-gap system (not to mention some tremendously bad luck), and those REEK of Pioli.

We've got a good number of pieces for the 3-4. It'd be reeruned to switch back now.

I do too. Like I said, I wish we went 1-gap or to a zone blitz 3-4.

But if we're being fair, the 2-gap system is meant to support a ball control offense. And it proved very effective last year when we did just that. So while I'm not a big fan of the 2-gap, I'd still like to see proof that it doesn't work if we had a solid running game AND a QB that can actually extend drives.

The last decade we had good linebackers and Solid D-line man. Not enough talent for 3-4 this year. The D-Line needs more push. Gregg is creating an amazing pocket by falling on his ass every play.

Coordinating an offense for half a year is not a strong track record.

I'm far more pissed off at Pioli than Haley too, but I think you're building him up as though he was an assistant on par with Charlie Weis when he left New England or Mike Martz in St. Louis.

Of course, regardless of where you come from, the decision to hire Haley was also done by Pioli, who really appears to be nothing other than a mindless automaton.

Our offense is antiquated too! Haley wants to be the '86 Giants or something. :headshake:

Matt Cassel

It's enough to suggest he knows what he's doing. Nobody's saying he's an offensive guru, nor does he have to be. It's not like he walked in with any more or less experience than Gruden, Tomlin, John Harbaugh, and several other successful coaches have. You may point to Haley's arguments with Boldin and Warner, but again... how can you dispute the claim that Keyshawn, Warner, and Fitzgerald seem to have had a tremendous relationship with Haley even to this day. Or the fact that lots of guys from Arizona have followed him to KC. We're not even talking about typical player-speak. We're talking about how Keyshawn won't shut up about Haley, or how Haley/Warner seem to be best friends to this day.

So I don't understand what your argument is against the Haley hire. I don't know how anyone can act like it was a blind tree hire. He was a young up and coming coordinator, which we all wanted. He was well respected with his players. He was a tough disciplinarian this team sorely need. And at the time, he ran a very successful, innovative offense. I don't know how anyone could possibly say he was a bad hire.

And in the process, this team is a shitload more disciplined than they were three years ago. He's gotten max production out of Hali, DJ, and Bowe. Etc... Who's really to blame here? How many coaches would have won with Matt Cassel and the patchwork starting lineup Pioli gave him? How many coaches wouldn't lose their team after losing players like Charles, Berry, and Moeaki? Haley's made mistakes, but I still believe the good far outweighs the bad.