Pearl Harbor Day
 

Didn't feel like saying "happy" in the title. But i do believe that this day in history had a major affect on our lives.


Both my grandpa's served in wwII, so i guess i'm a little partial to those who serve.
Good day.

Major day in world history. It is at minimum cause for some reflection.

Thanks for posting. I had forgotten.

Mr. Vice President, Mr. Speaker, Members of the Senate, and of the House of Representatives:

Yesterday, December 7th, 1941 -- a date which will live in infamy -- the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan.

The United States was at peace with that nation and, at the solicitation of Japan, was still in conversation with its government and its emperor looking toward the maintenance of peace in the Pacific.

Indeed, one hour after Japanese air squadrons had commenced bombing in the American island of Oahu, the Japanese ambassador to the United States and his colleague delivered to our Secretary of State a formal reply to a recent American message. And while this reply stated that it seemed useless to continue the existing diplomatic negotiations, it contained no threat or hint of war or of armed attack.

It will be recorded that the distance of Hawaii from Japan makes it obvious that the attack was deliberately planned many days or even weeks ago. During the intervening time, the Japanese government has deliberately sought to deceive the United States by false statements and expressions of hope for continued peace.

The attack yesterday on the Hawaiian islands has caused severe damage to American naval and military forces. I regret to tell you that very many American lives have been lost. In addition, American ships have been reported torpedoed on the high seas between San Francisco and Honolulu.

Yesterday, the Japanese government also launched an attack against Malaya.

Last night, Japanese forces attacked Hong Kong.

Last night, Japanese forces attacked Guam.

Last night, Japanese forces attacked the Philippine Islands.

Last night, the Japanese attacked Wake Island.

And this morning, the Japanese attacked Midway Island.

Japan has, therefore, undertaken a surprise offensive extending throughout the Pacific area. The facts of yesterday and today speak for themselves. The people of the United States have already formed their opinions and well understand the implications to the very life and safety of our nation.

As commander in chief of the Army and Navy, I have directed that all measures be taken for our defense. But always will our whole nation remember the character of the onslaught against us.

No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory.

I believe that I interpret the will of the Congress and of the people when I assert that we will not only defend ourselves to the uttermost, but will make it very certain that this form of treachery shall never again endanger us.

Hostilities exist. There is no blinking at the fact that our people, our territory, and our interests are in grave danger.

With confidence in our armed forces, with the unbounding determination of our people, we will gain the inevitable triumph -- so help us God.

I ask that the Congress declare that since the unprovoked and dastardly attack by Japan on Sunday, December 7th, 1941, a state of war has existed between the United States and the Japanese empire.

Yep but we showed them our little surprise at the end. We taught them that america is a sleeping giant that will curb stomp your ass and you will respect us. God bless those who lost their lives on that day and god bless the United State of America.

“Before we’re through with ‘em, the Japanese language will be spoken only in hell.” – Admiral William Halsey Jr. (December 1941)


Different times I suppose...

I'm sure it's not long before some douche bag troll makes a punk ass comment about Pearl Harbor Day, and how the U.S. is the greatest purveyor of violence since 19XX and they have the b@llsh*t statistics to prove it. Or Pearl Harbor was a 'conspiracy' and the whole war was a plot masterminded by...the Kennedy's or some other such internet bundle of sticksry.

Thanks for reminding everyone about today, cabletech94.

On veterans day a few weeks ago I went to a little town in central Nebraska to attend a special function at their local VFW. You see, my dad was making a speech there and I had the pleasure to meet someone with bigger ****ing balls than all of us combined.

He was a B-17 ball turret gunner during the war. The amazing thing about this occupation was that all of these men on the plane knew they would probably die. He was part of the bomb runs over Berlin and was actually shot down once. They took a direct hit, mid fuselage, and babied the damn thing to friendly territory before ditching.
This bad-ass survived being shot down, hitched a god damned ride back to base and got on with another crew that just lost their gunner on the same mission.
Another amazing thing about this guy was that I didn't get this information from him. I got it from his son who had to research it on his own. Before he did so, all he knew about his old man was that he was a veteran of the great crusade.
So here we go, Sarge got back on the plane, (while his old crew had to wait for another B-17 for a week) and flew 2 more missions.
BOOM!
Got hit again, Flak took out 2 engines. The plane was so amazing that you could actually fly with just one. However, the pilot had to be a strong SOB to keep her straight.
Engine 3 almost goes out but they make it back in time.
Oh shit...
They barely make it back to base, (in England) and get off the plane right before the damn engine catches fire.
They take a look at it and half the tail was gone.
So, this miracle of modern technology flew several miles on 1.5 engines and 1/2 a tail.


Just a note here, we lose 1,000 WWII vets every day. The next time you see one, thank him. I don't care what line of service he was in and I don't care if he was a cook or a commander. Hero's, every one of them. Most of them will tell you to eat a shit-sandwich because they don't view themselves that way.

99% of them will say, "We did what needed to be done."

Truly, our greatest generation. It's a shame we're losing them so fast. If we could clone them, our country would be in much better shape.


http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/ph...llamerican.jpg

I've got my negrep ready for any contingencies.

Slap a Jap Day

My father was in an anti-tank unit with the 8th Army towards the end of the war in the Ruhr pocket. He was hit on his 19th birthday. When the war ended he was in San Francisco most likely as part of a planned invasion force of the main Japanese islands. The atomic bomb saved his life and the lives of millions of Japanese and hundreds of thousands of American serviceman's lives no matter how the revisionist historians paint it.

I work across the street from the Arizona Memorial, and live down the street from Wheeler Army Airfield (where the first bombs were dropped on planes as the Japanese made their way to Pearl Harbor 15 miles away). There are still buildings at Pearl Harbor and Hickam with bullet holes in them.

RIP to all who lost their lives that morning.

Not cool. The Japanese have been our allies for decades. The survivors of Pearl Harbor have gotten together with the Japanese survivors from that day several times in the past. If they can forgive so can you.

Caught the last half of a show last night on the military channel showcasing the myths or little known facts of Pearl Harbor.

One was we actually fired the first shot. One of the mini-subs was spotted in the channel heading for the harbor by the destroyer USS Ward. It attacked and sunk the sub before the japanese planes even arrived.

Another was later that evening 5 fighters dispatched from the Enterprise to PH were shot down by friendly fire, killing 4 of the pilots. I imagine everyone on the island was in shoot first ask questios later mode.

Wish I could have met one of the survivor's of Pearl Harbor. I've met and talked to several men who landed on Omaha Beach on D-Day and a tank driver who was in the Battle of the Bulge. Was always amazed at their courage and valor. They didn't want recognition. They felt they were doing the job that needed to be done. A tip of the hat today to all veterans.

Get over it. It was a joke.
Hey, it's better than the anniversary of Hiroshima. You know, "Nuke a Gook?"
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I thought it was in september. George Bush told me.

^

My great uncle was supposed to be there but his paperwork got messed up. He ended up having to wait around for it, and would have died otherwise.

I'm going to go against the grain here.

I'm tired of the Pearl Harbor celebrations every year. Sure, I appreciate what happened. It was a pivotal moment in world history. But every year the people that were there got trotted out and held in the sun for a moment and they tell their stories, and then 365 days later it happens again.

Let's hold off on Pearl Harbor some year and do a Bataan remembrance. Or a Guadalcanal remembrance. Or a Peliliu remembrance. Or Tarawa. Or Attu. Let's give a little credit to the people who were in other places at other times, and not continue to give all of the glorification and attention to the same people every year.

Okay, you can kick me out of the country now, but I had to say it.

It's a fair point. There are many other events that should be remembered and celebrated that aren't. But human nature isn't to do that, it's to key in on very specific events to the exclusion of others that may well have been just as important, but for whatever reason don't stick in the public's mind.

Sneak attack on our main base? That sticks.

Random atoll nobody has ever heard of and would have no hope of finding on a map to save their lives? Not so much.

The interesting thing to me too - and not to take anything away from the people there - is that they essentially had greatness thrust upon them. They had no idea they were in danger. All of a sudden bullets were flying and they had no choice in the matter.

Now contrast that with a guy who's on a boat headed to Tarawa, knowing that he's got to wade ashore in front of an emplaced enemy that's expecting him. Whose actions are really more brave? And yet the guys wading ashore stand in the back of the room watching the Pearl Harbor anniversary every year, and the guys who invaded Sicily or Attu or wherever stand in the back of the room watching the D-Day anniversary every year.

Obviously Pearl Harbor and D-Day people deserve significant recognition, but as a student of history I'd like to see other key events get recognition, and hear the stories of their people, too. As you said, though, they tend to get lost in the noise since they weren't the door openers.

The Japanese paid for Pearl Harbor many times over. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are only the best known of it, at this point. Operationg Meetinghouse, March, 1945 is the most destructive air raid in history, resulting in a firestorm (estimated at 1,800 degrees F in some places) that destroyed 25% of Tokyo, one of the largest cities on earth, with an estimated 100,000 dead and over 250,000 buildings destroyed.

They ****ed us, and they got their ass beat. For 50 years they've been one of our staunchest allies. Pearl Harbor should be commemorated for the lives lost, and the war begun, but not to revisit ancient wrongs long ago repaid with heavy interest.

Fuk the Japs, and fuk the idiots that went over there this year for their remembrance of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I agree with every word. In many ways true heroism comes long before the event. Boarding the landing craft that will hit the beach early. Getting on board the plane and crawling into your position as tail gunner of a B-17, knowing that your chances of survival are not that great, and completely out of your control.

Bravery isn't not being scared. Bravery is doing what you should despite being scared. Despite every natural instinct in your body screaming at you NOT to do it.

Somewhere in Japan is an idiot who says the same about Americans for dropping nuclear bombs on women and children.

Get over it.

I'm really curious how they and Germany (and Italy) really seemed to switch sides quickly and become allies. I have no faith that Iraq and Afghanistan will do the same. Is there something about the more civilized countries where they're better able to see the light than are third world countries? Is it a Middle Eastern or Islamic thing where those countries are incapable of change?

Even Vietnam now seems to be friendly, which intrigues me. It would seem like they have all the reason in the world to hold a grudge - and us with them in return - but 25 years after the war I can go on vacation there. So it's not necessarily a third world thing.

Both Germany and Japan were left with the option of getting on board with the American team, or cuddling up with Uncle Joe Stalin. Beyond that, both had strong governmental infrastructure which the US largely left in place at the local level, nor were the allies shy about being an occupiers.

Vietnam needs someplace to sell shirts and soccer balls. Nike won the war.

I remember reading/hearing/talking (honestly don't remember) about an American returning from Vietnam recently and he asked some of the locals why they have little or no animosity towards America and his answer was along the lines of "don't flatter yourself".

I'm pretty sure our war was much more significant to America than it was to Vietnam in the big picture:

De Tham Guerrilla Resistance--1883-1913 --De Tham, a Vietnamese resistance leader, led a thirty-year guerrilla campaign against the colonial French occupiers in the mountains near Yen The in northeastern Tonkin. In 1909 the French launched a major offensive against his forces. De Tham was involved in the 1908 Hanoi Uprising.

This guerrilla resistance ended with De Tham's assassination in 1913.

Hanoi Uprising --June 1908--"Abortive" uprising led to French execution of thirteen rebels and hundreds of arrests.

Vietnamese Troop Mutiny--1916-- 16 year-old Vietnamese King Duy Tan took part in revolt and was exiled to the French island of Reunion. In their policy of colonial control, the French allowed the Vietnamese monarchy to exist as a puppet government. As with most colonial empires, the French recruited local forces to aid them. In this case, the Vietnamese troops mutinied against their rulers.

Thai Nguyen Uprising--1917--As in the previous year's mutiny, Vietnamese troops rebelled in the province of Thai Nguyen and held the town of Thai Nguyen for several day before the French put down the rebellion and recaptured the town.

The Nghe-Tinh Revolt--1930-1931--A peasant revolt with backing and support from the underground Vietnamese Communist Party. French forces suppressed the local soviets (A soviet is a council of peasants, workers or soldiers in a socialist or revolutionary form of government) which formed in local villages. Many of these revolutionaries were arrested and at least 80 were executed by the colonial government. (External link on this war.)

Yen Bai uprising--Feb. 9, 1930 A rebellion launched by the Viet Nam Quoc Dan Dang, (VNQDD -- Vietnamese Nationalist Party--See external link) began as a planned mutiny of Vietnamese troops in the Yen and Bai garrison. Other attacks on Son Tay and Lam Thu failed. The French suppressed the uprising, arresting executing many VNQDD leaders. Several villages were bombed and shelled by French forces. (External link)

World War II--During the Second World War, while France was defeated and partially occupied by Germany in 1940, both Japan and her ally Thailand initiated border conflicts with the French colonial forces in Vietnam and Indochina.

Franco-Japanese Border War (Sept. 22, 1940-Sept. 24, 1940)--Soon after France fell to Germany, Japan sought passage through French Indochina in order to attack Nationalist Chinese forces near the border. French authorities in Hanoi refused, prompting Japan to launch a ground attack on the French border forts at Long-Son and Dong-Dang. Two days later, Japanese aircraft bombed the port city of Haiphong and the Japanese navy landed troops at the port. During the two days of fighting, nearly 800 French troops were killed.

Franco-Thai Border War (Jan. 9, 1941-Jan. 28, 1941)--Thailand, then an ally of Japan, initiated an invasion of French Indochina after early border skirmishes from November 1940. After early successes, the Thai forces were forced back by French reinforcements. At sea, the French navy, in the form of one cruiser, wiped out nearly one third of the Thai navy off the island of Kho Chang on Jan. 17. Japan arranged a cease-fire on Jan. 28. Per a written agreement signed on March 11, France gave portions of Laos and Cambodia to Thailand. (External link on this war.)

Viet Minh Resistance to Japanese Occupation (1944-1945)-- In late 1944, the Vietnamese Communists, led by Ho Chi Minh and Vo Nguyen Giap, initiated a resistance movement against the Japanese. The Viet Minh (Vietnamese abbreviation for " League of the Revolution and Independence of Vietnam") sought independence from both Japan and France.

First Indochina War--1945-1954--Vietminh guerrilla war against the French culminating in the Viet Minh victory at Dien Bien Phu.

Binh Xuyen Suppression --April, 1955--The South Vietnam government of Ngo Dinh Diem used military action to eliminate the paramilitary power of the Binh Xuyen criminal organization.

Hoa Hao Suppression --June, 1955--The South Vietnam government of Ngo Dinh Diem used military action to eliminate the paramilitary power of the Hoa Hao religious sect in the countryside around Saigon. (External link on the Hoa Hao religion. Includes articles on religious persecution in Vietnam today.)

Cao Dai Suppression --1955--The South Vietnam government of Ngo Dinh Diem used military action to eliminate the paramilitary power of the Cao Dai religious sect.

North Vietnamese Peasant Uprisings of 1956--A peasant uprising in opposition to the Communist government's policy of forcing the rural population into collective farms. The government put down the revolt.

Second Indochina War--1956-1975--The so-called "Vietnam War" was really a regional and international conflict involving not just North and South Vietnam and the U.S. but also embroiling Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand. Below are some of the "smaller" conflicts that in part made up the Second Indochina War.

The American-Vietnamese War-- 1956-1975--The Communist North Vietnamese and the southern Viet Cong engaged in a long war to overthrow the pro-American government of South Vietnam. The U.S. and other allied nations sent troops to aid the Saigon regime. The last U.S. combat troops left in 1973 and Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese on April 30, 1975. Known in the U.S. and much of the world as "The Vietnam War." Known in Vietnam as "The American War."

Anti-Diem Coup Attempt-- Nov. 11-Nov. 13, 1960--Bloody coup attempt against South Vietnam's leader, Diem. Over 300 killed or wounded. Diem would later be overthrown and murdered in late 1963.

Laotian Civil War-- 1959-1975--North Vietnam sent large numbers of troops into Laos to aid the Communist Pathet Lao against the U.S.-backed Royal Laotian government. The Pathet Lao seized power in 1975 and maintains a good relationship with Hanoi.

Cambodian Civil War-- 1967-1975--North Vietnam sent large numbers of troops into Cambodia to aid the Communist Khmer Rouge against the U.S.-backed Cambodian government. The North Vietnamese Army (NVA) had maintained a large presence in eastern Cambodia for years prior to the beginning of the Khmer Rouge war in 1967. Following the fall of the U.S.-backed governments in Cambodia and South Vietnam, the two former Communist allies engaged in warfare between themselves. (See below).

Post-Unification Southern Resistance -- 1975-mid-1980's -- Armed resistance by several groups against the Communist Hanoi government following the fall of Saigon in 1975. These groups include: the Montagnard ethnic group in the Central Highlands; the Cao Dai and Hoa Hao religious groups (who reportedly ceased fighting in the mid-1980's); and various anti-communist groups collectively known as chu quoc or "national salvation." The chu quoc included the Dai Viet and the Viet Nam Quoc Dan Dang, two armed nationalist (and therefore anti-communist) organizations and soldiers from the old South Vietnamese Army (ARVN). Further research is needed to determine when the resistance ended.

Hmong Rebellion in Laos--1975-Present--Armed resistance by the Hmong ethnic group against the Communist Pathet Lao government is really just a continuation of the fighting between the Pathet Lao and the Hmong, who were armed and supported by the United States in the Laotian Civil War. The Hmong claim that the Vietnamese army is fighting them in support of the Laotian government.

Third Indochina War--1977-1991--The Third Indochina War began with the conflict between the Khmer Rouge government of Cambodia and the Communist government of a united Vietnam. Partially as a result of Vietnam's invasion of Cambodia (a Chinese ally) in late December of 1978, China launched what it described as a "punitive" attack on northern Vietnam. This 29-day war ended with the bloodied Chinese army declaring victory and returning home.

Cambodia-Vietnamese War--1977-1991--During their war against the U.S.-sponsored regimes in Saigon and Phnom Penh, the North Vietnamese and the Khmer Rouge were able to mask their ideological differences and ignore the historical hostility between their two peoples. After taking power though, these differences turned violent. Beginning with low-level cross-border raids and escalating into full-fledged war in late December of 1978 when Vietnam launched a massive conventional invasion of Cambodia, swiftly occupying the nation within days. Vietnam set up a new government in Phnom Penh with Khmer Rouge defectors but found itself immersed in a long and difficult war of occupation as the Khmer Rouge returned to the guerrilla warfare they knew so well. Vietnamese troops left after more than a decade, with the friendly government of Heng Samrin in control of most of Cambodia.

Sino-Vietnam War--Feb. 17-Mar. 16, 1979-- Similar to the difficulties between Cambodia and Vietnam, the Hanoi regime enjoyed good relations with China during the war against the United States and South Vietnam, but once that conflict ended, ideological and historical differences interfered with Sino-Vietnamese relations. Using the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia as a pretext, China launched a massive attack along their common border. Vietnam's border troops put up a very good defense, causing major casualties to the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA). Within a month of the invasion, China basically declared that it had taught Hanoi a lesson and withdrew. Results of this war include: moving Hanoi closer to the Soviet Union, which was a rival of China; a modernization of the PLA as China realized they did not do very well against a smaller country; and the beginning of a long-lasting but low-level border conflict with between Vietnam and China. (See below).

Sino-Vietnam Border Conflict--1980-1987?-- After the Chinese invasion of Vietnam in 1979, continued warfare and infiltration along the border kept these two neighbors in a state of low-level warfare. The two Communist neighbors now maintain cordial relations, but further research is needed to ascertain when the cross-border raids and artillery exchanges ended.

Thai-Vietnam Border Conflict--1980-1987?--Following the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia, Vietnamese forces often crossed over from Cambodia into Thailand in operations against Cambodian guerrilla forces. This led to several battles with the Thai military.

A huge point you are missing is that these three countries did not tremendous religious/ethnic hatreds internally. They were largely homogenous and therefore the chances of internal strife greatly minimized.

The country of Iraq is just a series of lines drawn on a map in the 20s in England. Since then, it has had nothing holding it together except authoritarian rule. Tremendously fertile ground for ethnic/religious strife. Afghanistan is an area dominated by tribal rivalries.

Them damn Germans :cuss:

man i still remember that speech. i was in high school and was watching the nightly news when they showed the replay of that speech.
i think it was the first time in history that someone (me) muttered the words WTF?
true story.

No American that survived the Baton death march ever forgave the Japs.
My dad went to his grave hating Japs & Japan.

The war ended 65 years ago. Holding hate in your heart for a country full of people that weren't even alive then is ridiculous and only hurts you.

Of course they didn't. I doubt I would either.

But that's 70 years ago. Every Japanese officer responsible for it is dead. Every Japanese politician responsible for it is dead. The Japanese Emperor of the time is dead. Every Japanese soldier remotely involved, if they're not already dead, is now more focused on regular movements of their bowels than movements of troops.

And you weren't on the Bataan Death March. Hell, you can't even spell it.

So like I said, get over it.

I dont hate Japan.
My point was. Not all American Vets of the Pacific campaign forgave. Thats all I was trying to say.
I should have just kept my big mouth shut.

No problem. That veterans who fought them didn't is perfectly understandable and human. Many older Chinese don't either -- Japan absolutely committed heinous atrocities. Those who lived through them have a very different perspective on these things.

History buffs, FYI....new show on the History Channel tonight at 7pm CT on Pearl Harbor.

Pearl Harbor: 24 Hours After
NEW

A documentary reveals secrets and little-known details of FDR's reactions in the earliest hours after the Japanese attacks on Oahu.

Thats going to be a good show.

Chances Doris Kearns Goodwin will make an appearance?

Doesn't sound like it:

Pearl Harbor: 24 Hours After This two-hour special offers an in-depth look at the critical 24-hour period after news of Japan's attack on U.S. soil in 1941 reached the President. Drawing on exhaustive research and new information provided by the FDR Library, the special gives a rare and surprising glimpse at the man behind the Presidency and how he confronted the enormous challenge of transitioning the nation from peace to war. There was no direct phone line between Pearl Harbor and the White House. As information slowly trickled in and word of the bombing got out, panic gripped the White House. FDR's unique style of leadership enabled him to galvanize the American people in the wake of a grave and potentially demoralizing attack. The special features acclaimed historian Steven M. Gillon, author of the recently released Pearl Harbor: FDR Leads the Nation Into War.

I was watching CNN the other day, and the runner at the bottom said:
"cut backs looming: U.S to have smallest Navy since 1915, and smallest AF in US history"

I was like...are you ****ing kidding me?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-22tna7KHzI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The Japanese sailors that carried out the attack can be forgiven. I agree.

They are our allies because we conquered them-they've had no choice since September of 1945. The type of enemy they presented themselves to be dictated our actions following VJ Day. But my suspicions will always remain concerning Japan--

In 1987, Tocibai Machine, a subsidiary of Toshiba, was accused of illegally selling CNC milling machines used to produce very quiet submarine propellers to the Soviet Union in violation of the CoCom agreement, an international embargo on certain countries to COMECON countries.The incident strained relations between the United States and Japan, and resulted in the arrest and prosecution of two senior executives, as well as the imposition of sanctions on the company by both countries. The US had always relied on the fact that the Soviets had noisy boats, so technology that would make the USSR's submarines harder to detect created a significant threat to America's security. Senator John Heinz of Pennsylvania said "What Toshiba and Kongsberg did was ransom the security of the United States for $517 million."

Strange. I always see her around, and she wrote a book exactly about the Roosevelts during WWII, including the reaction to Pearl Harbor.

Our air force is going to be smaller than it was in 1893.

I'm not missing the issue of internal ethnic issues. The issue Rain Man raised was how quickly the Axis powers switched sides, not why they didn't devolve into chaos.

On the subject of internal issues, Italy and Germany both had their issues. Keep in mind, what is present day Germany had been in existance less than 100 years and had largely been held together by authoritarian rule. Had the Allies not kept the existing power structure in place, and established a strong occupation government, a power vacum would have developed similar to Iraq (Afghanistan has never had a strong central power) and attracted opportunists.

Interestingly, it was the rise of an external threat in Iraq, in the form of foreign fighters, that played a large role in turning the tide.



BTW, I wouldn't be so quick to claim that Germany didn't have tremendous internal ethnic hatreds, although it is fair to say that it was mostly resolved by 1945.

Really? Have you noticed Iraq since 2003? Japan has a population of 127MM now. In 1945 what was it? 80 million maybe? 60 million? Iraq has half that.


Wow, that's relevant...

They didn't switch sides. They were defeated, and chose the "side" of their occupying powers. Luckily, in the case of the West, our occupation was benevolent enough, and/or the altneratives bad enough, that our relationship continued to improve even post-occupation.

On the subject of internal issues, Italy and Germany both had their issues. Keep in mind, what is present day Germany had been in existance less than 100 years and had largely been held together by authoritarian rule. [/quote]

What is present day Germany was an area that had many long-standing historic ties but had not been formally forged together as a single socio-economic unit. Besides, 100 years is enough to survive EVERYONE. In the entire living memory of EVERYONE in the country, Germany was a single, unified country.

What existing power structure? The Nazis were ruthlessly and in some cases, foolishly swept out of every office high and low, even if they were nothing but bureaucrats who had become "card carrying Nazis" out of peer pressure or for simple job survival.

Senior American military officers in many instances were less than happy about this approach, but the political pressure was far too great to resist.

I'm less knowledgeable about Japan, but the military caste system was wiped out and the entire structure reorganized from the Emperor's authority on down via a new Constitution.


Suffice to say that Nazis evil had purged any possibility of internal strife over ethnicity by 1945.

"smallest" by what measure?

Awesome show.

Lots of things I didn't know.

Funniest one was the day after the attack when Roosevelt went to the Capitol to give his famous 'Infamy' speech the SS was worried about 'people' that might try to assasinate him. The rule of the day was the government couldn't spend more than $750 for a car.

At the time they didn't have a bullet proof car so they borrowed one confiscated from Capone to drive FDR to the Capitol.

FDR said "I hope Al doesn't mind".

I enjoyed it

Easy for you to say. You ever spend time in a POW camp?

I suggest you read the book "Unbroken" then put yourself in that situation then come back and tell everyone they shoukd be able to forgive the atrocities they experienced.

I will say the main charachter in the book Louis Zamprese ended up becoming a saved Christian and more or less forgave the Japanese and his captives but as told in the book he was an exception.

Should we as a group of people (most of the US ) that never dealt with being beaten tortured and treated completely inhumanely carry the same hate? No.

Should we judge those that were treated that way and didnt forgive? I think not.