Admitting Mistakes..key for the Chiefs franchise
 

Everyone makes mistakes. The best players, the best coaches, the best GM's, the best owners. They all make mistakes. But, what makes the best the best is they admit their mistakes, learn from their mistakes and make the necessary corrections.

This is a telling time for Clark and Pioli. Will they repeat the same mistakes they have made or will they understand they made some mistakes and learn from them? Typical of new owners and new GM's, they think they know more than anyone else about what they are doing. The recipie for success is rather simple in this league. Owner needs to hire GM and let him do his job and not meddle. GM needs to hire coach and let him do his job and not meddle.

What mistakes have Clark and Pioli made? Hindsight being 20/20 it's easy to see but that is how we judge our mistakes by looking back and learning.

1. Hiring Haley. Mistake? Most likley. No personal football experience, hot tempered, couldn't get along with people and ran off 2 OC's in 3 years and Muir would probably have only stuck around for the pension had Haley stayed.

2. Matt Cassel. Mistake? Yes but to be fair an honest one. More than the Chiefs were after Cassel and a lot, not all but a lot of the fan base was ok with bringing him in. Ok, fair enough. We have watched him for 3 years and learned he isn't the one.

3. Draft picks. Mistakes? Yes but all teams make them. Jackson was a mistake simply because we put him at a position he has never played and not really built to play. Dexter? Mistake. Never should have been drafted given the needs of the team. By the same token Pioli has made some good draft picks in Berry, Baldwin, Arenas and Moeaki.

4. Lack of team identity. Mistake? Yes but part of that is on the coaching staff as well as the front office. Pioli dictated we would be a 3-4 team when he came in before any coach was ever hired. That's a mistake. Let the coaches evaluate the talent, choose the best strategy for the talent that is there and the front office should cater to that. To elaborate further though I don't think a clear identity has ever been targeted for this team. One minute we want to be a power running team, the next a dink-dunk. One game we are blitzing like crazy, the next we are a pillow-soft zone.

5. Lack of roster depth. Mistake? Clearly. This falls on Pioli and Haley both. You have 3 QB's with a total experience level starting in the NFL of 2 1/2 years combined. No excuse there at all for any of them. None! No line depth on either side of the ball and no depth at LB. The secondary when healthy is fairly deep.

6. Brian Waters. Mistake? In hindsight, yes. I was not terribly upset that he left but when you let him go and he goes and starts for the NE Pats then you made a mistake.

Overall there has been a piss-poor display of leadership on this team from the front office to the coaching staff the defensse being the only exception. A head coach who can't get along with other coaches is a bad seed. Gailey gets ran off. Ok, fair enough. But you do it one week before a season starts? Terrible leadership. Weis gets ran off. Fair enough but now you have gone through 2 OC's in as many years. Not a good track record. Muir has the playcalling taken away from him. Terrible. Muir was a terrible decision in the first place but you gave the guy the job you have to stand by your decisions. When the head coach starts meddling at that level with the coordinators it sends the wrong message to the players.

Pioli has his work cut out for him and should be on the hot seat. He needs to bring in a coach who knows WTF he is doing and listen to that coach. If that coach doesn't want Cassel then Cassel is gone. If that coach wants to draft a NT and not a flashy "playmaker" then the NT gets drafted. No coach worth a **** is going to want to coach this team if he can't have his say on the players. I am not saying that Pioli has to be totally absent in that decision making but he needs to give deferrence to the coach.

New owner, 1st time GM and 1st time head coach is obviously not a good combination. Bring in a good coach. Make a commitment to draft players that are going to solidify this team for the next decade, meaning QB and line players on both sides of the ball. If that means we go back to a 4-3 then sobeit. Unless you are going to cut Dorsey and Jackson going to a 4-3 is probably the best decision. You have 3 stud WR's. Get a QB that can get them the ball and get lineman that can block for him. Again, no coach worth anything is going to want to coach a team where he is continually forced to draft players that don't fit the identity. The "right 53" has to begin with players who can actually play the position they are drafted to play.

Above and beyond all, at this point you have to get a coach with some credibilty. No college come-ups. No former golfers. No retreads with failing records though they have already said they are going to serious look at Romeo. Get a coach that has football experience and has been successful at some point in his career. Romeo would fall into that category as a DC but his time in Cleveland hurts him. Then again I don't think Cleveland has had a good team since Marty left. Get off the Pats\Parcell buddy system.

Don't count your chickens before they roost.

Oh wait, wrong thread. Sorry.

TIM TEBOW IS A VIRGIN

too many words

Pete... This thread being about hindsight, I can only say: It's 50/50.

You are an idiot.

This defense is built apart from NT and depth.

It's not worth debating extensively. It can all be summed up by saying:

Pioli is an inept, overrated piece of shit.

For god sake we don't need to go to a 43 when we have the personel to play 34. We have drafted to play the 34 and are a solid NT away from having a really good defense.


Get a qb, go true fan in the draft. Get an experienced HC.

Letting Waters go was not a mistake.

How is Matt Cassel an honest mistake? Our GM watched him practice every day for four years. You can't miss on evaluations like that.

Couldn't this have waited until the game day thread was in full swing

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Ingredients

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Just for the sake of argument, do we really have the personnel to play the 34?

Jackson and Dorsey are average 5-techs at best, and we have no true NT.

But other people wanted him!

Namely, the guy that is likely to become our new HC and/or OC.

FML.

Yes. Tamba Hali is one of the best pass rushers in the game, DJ is one of the best ILB, and Justin Houston is emerging as well. It shouldn't be that hard to find a good Nose Tackle unless Scott Pioli is the GM.

Jackson and Dorsey are not 3-4 DE's. Dorsey is making strides but again, is not the ideal DE for a 3-4. Jackson has what, 1 or 2 sacks in 3 years? He is constantly blown off the ball and cannot beat 1-1 blocks. neither can Dorsey for that matter. Put those same 2 guys in a 4-3 and suddenly you have 2 badass DT's. The last time the Chiefs had a good 3-4 defense you had Neil Smith, Dan Saly and Joe Phillips. We have nothing of the sort. Plus if you're going to run a coverage defense you are better off in a 4-3. A 3-4 that doesn't constantly attack is not an effective 3-4, imo. We are 2-3 solid Dlineman and a good inside LB away from being an effective 3-4. That's assuming Dorsey continues to get better.

And all those players would play in a 43 as well, no?

Point being, we're just as far away from a good defense in the 43 as we are in the 34 - about 2-3 players.

We weren't the only team who wanted him and he came off an 11-5 record. The hope was he would be up and coming. Well, that was false hope.

Jackson and Dorsey are not average 5 techs. They are poor pass rushers, but they are very good against the run. Amon Gordon is good depth.

If Powe works out we are set at starters.

****ing up what we have put together on D the last two years is not something I am interested in doing.

Jackson has graded out well against the run unless I'm mistaken. Don't get blinded by the fact that he was a disastrous selection at #3 overall and not be able to recognize that he can contribute on some level.

Yep.

So good we rank 26th in the league against the run.

Denver with McDumbass
Tampa Bay

Those are the two who wanted him.

I don't think Dorsey or Jackson would fit in a 4-3 at all, and I think we'd have two find two new outside linebackers who can cover.

This defense is good enough to win a SB if Berry is OK, we get a NT and Houston keeps trending up.

Denver wanted him. More specifically, another douche with The Tree hanging out of his ass was equally as myopic as Pioli.

Mind bottling.

maybe Pioli sent Ray Charles to evaluate Cassel.

Hali and DJ have been far more productive in the 3-4 it would make no sense going back to the 4-3 at this point if those are the guys we're building around on defense.

Here we go with the stats.

That's a very deceptive ranking. PFF ranks the Chiefs as a top 10 run defense. Football Outsiders has us at 17th.

We've given up 4.1 YPC this year (15th) and the defense as a whole is allowing something like 19 PPG after the first two weeks.

Nothing wrong with this D Eric Berry won't fix.

Changing the scheme would be a huge setback.

Was this when Gruden was still the coach? IIRC he didn't get canned til very late in the process.

Still weak up the middle.

Chicken or the egg?

Scheme or coaching?

Remember who the DC's were when they ran a 43.

You're still stuck with 2 4-3 DT's playing in a 3-4. You need big, strong guys that can beat 1-1 blocks at DE in a 3-4. If teams tried to single block Neil Smith he burned them and burned them bad. Jackson registers one sack in 3 years? That's not a good 3-4 DE. O-lineman are constantly on our LB's which is another sign of bad DE's.

Plus, romeo prefers a coverage strategy rather than an attacking one. If that's the case I have never thought a 3-4 to be a good read-n-react defense. My opinion is a 3-4 should be a blitzing and attacking defense with a really intense front 7 who can constantly bring it from anywhere and everywhere at any given time.

Weak up front period.

He has gotten better but I still think he gets eaten up too much by 1-1 blocks.

We're weak at NT.

Our MLBs are excellent and Berry is a beast in run defense.

They played in the 4-3 in college and were very, very good at it. Warren Sapp was probably one of the best DT's in recent history and when moved to a 3-4 he sucked ass.

Excellent? No. Belcher is average and DJ cannot cover a TE to save his life. Granted DJ is a beast agains the run and a great blitzer. I will live with 2 out of 3 but someone else has to be able to cover the TE's that are eating us alive.

No it was Rahemm Morris.

Dorsey is a terrible pass rusher. Putting him in the 4-3, where your DTs have to provide a pass rush, would be a mistake.

And it goes without saying that Jackson would be a terrible 4-3 pass rusher. And Houston should be playing DE in a 4-3 anyway.

So, basically you believe in angels.

Belcher is better suited to be a backup.

So glad we took the midget instead of the Nose Tackle that could have made a difference.

No, he's one of the better ILBs against the run in this league.

He's a fine starter. You guys want to replace every position when you see a player who isn't a Pro Bowler for some reason.

Totally disagree. Dorsey and Jackson are ideal 4-3 DT's. Quick off the ball and gap hitters. 3-4 DE's have to be block sponges. They have to be able to take on double-teams without being knocked off the ball. This is why we have no pass rush up the middle. A good 3-4 DE is going to take a single bloker and shove him into the QB's lap.

Anthony Davis was a great ILB in a 3-4. Belcher couldn't hold Davis' jock. Ray Lewis is a great 3-4 ILB. Belcher is nowhere even close.

We have no pass rush up the middle because our NT can barely win a 1 on 1.

Same with our DE's. The DT's job is to suck up the blocks in the middle and stand there. Not necessarily give a huge push. The push has to come from the DE's. You want the DT standing firm taking away the gap and taking up 2 blockers. We do not have a 3-4 D-line whatsoever. The only guy we have that has played in and is built for a 3-4 on the line is a guy who is so old he can't play every down.

Contrary to popular belief, at least as I understand it, the middle pass rush in a 3-4 is primarily going to come from a LB. The 3 D-lienman are there to take on double-teams and if they are blocked 1-1 they need to be able to shove the blocker into the QB's face. Otherwise their job is to stand firm at the line, not get knocked off the ball and take on the blockers so the LB's can hit the gaps.

About all I can say on this entire day is I hope Pioli hires an established coach that can come in and take advantage of a pretty young talented team.

This next coach hiring will determine Pioli's skill (if he has any).

I don't know what to say if you believe that the DE's should be demanding 2 blockers and blaming the inside rush on the outside players.

You mean we don't have 2 ILB's? I am not sure you understand the 3-4.

I'm not sure you do. The NT is responsible for opening up the middle for the ILB's... not the ****ing DE's.

So what is the job of the DE's?

To beat his man.

It's a tarp!

In a 34 your not gonna get sacks from your dline consistently. That's no the way it's built.

It's built to allow your 4 LBS to run free and make plays. We don't have a NT that can command a Double team, which allows one of our DE's to be dtd and blockers getting on our lbs.

Well guess what......ours aren't doing it

Well, guess what? The problem is our interior not demanding a double team, allowing every pass rusher to be accounted for by a lineman.

Sorry, neither of them are quick off the ball gap hitters.

For that very reason, the Chiefs don't play them in pass rush packages.

They are abysmal pass rushers.

Pete would you say the Ravens and the Steelers are the best 34 defenses in the league?


How many sacks come from their dlinemen?

Tyson Jackson is 6-5, 300 lbs, and you want to play him at 4-3 DT.

You are an idiot, man.

He's a fine starter. You don't need a Pro Bowler at every position. He's better against the run than Spikes, Timmons and Bishop this year according to PFF.

You can afford to have a guy in your lineup like Belcher if he's surrounded by talent. There are lunchpail players who aren't necessarily great at everything on lots of good defenses.

You are an idiot, Pete. Everyone here keeps telling you that, so please start accepting it. Thanks.

Here's a question:

How many GMs have failed on their first HC, QB, and a top five pick simultaneously and gone on to do anything of note?

Tyson Jackson is an ideal 3-4 defensive end.

In a 4-3 he would be a backup level player at best. He's incapable of beating an offensive tackle to the outside with speed, so he couldn't play DE. He's too tall and too light to play inside.

Pull your head out of your ass.

No.

The middle pass rush in our 3-4 comes from guys like Allen Bailey and Wallace Gilberry.

We don't even HAVE three defensive linemen on the field in passing situations.

Just stop posting.

I am not sure what your trying to get at here?

Really? We don't have 3 D-lineman on 1st and 2nd down? Or are you under this belief that teams never pass on 1st and 2nd down? Or are we not to ever rush the passer on 1st and 2nd down? I fail to follow your logic on this "passing situation" crap.

Nevermind your entire argument is moot sincee as you say, in "passing situations" we are not even in a 3-4 so it's rather irrelevant.

how many passing yards have we given up to no-name TE's this year? You ****ing idiot.

The top teams in the league running the 34 don't get pressure from thier dlineman. Only on occasion.

Ziggy Hood has 4.5 sacks this year. Tyson Jackson has 1 in what, 3 years?

I agree the base concept is the Dlineman in a 3-4 are to suck up blocks so the LB's can make the plays. Although Omega seems to feel differently.

That being said a good 3-4 Dlineman is going to beat a 1-1 block and pressure the QB even if that means shoving his blocker back into the QB's face.

The reason Ziggy hood gets sacks is that he is constantly in 1 on 1 situations. Our de's get double teamed because when we are in base situations, Kelly Gregg is getting his shit pushed in by the center.

He's not an ideal 3-4 DEs. Even two gap DEs should get a pass rush at times.

Funny article. So far, Todd Haley is the only guy in the organization who has had the balls to step up and shoulder blame...

Not always.

You don't expect your 3-4 ends in this kind of defense to provide much of a pass rush.

Dorsey and Jackson aren't doing it in ANY defensive scheme so switching to a 4-3 is a horrible idea.

So you think if we just got a NT Jackson and Dorsey would be pressuring the QB more?

Our DE's aren't doubled every play. Our NT does command double teams from time to time, also, only one guy gets doubled at a time.

Laughable isn't it?

Dorsey and Jackson both came from 4-3 defenses where they were good.

And it's all Belcher's fault? No ****ing way.

I want to hear the 4-3 argument that isn't based around the fraudulent notion that Dorsey and Jackson can play DT in that scheme. LMAO

Yeah, I don't really care. Jackson played DE in college. Nobody with any modicum of football sense has that guy playing 4-3 DE in KC.

What position did they play in college?