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Hammock Parties 12-13-2011 03:47 AM
Mellinger roasts Pioli over an open flame
 
This didn't get posted? ****, best thing Sammy has written.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/12/12...his-share.html

Chiefs GM Pioli due his share of blame in Haley's failures


Quote:
Scott Pioli brought this critical point in Chiefs history on himself, and now he must rise to it.

This can go one of only two ways. Championship or bust, waving from a parade or looking for work, remembered as the man who just needed to find the right coach or the general manager who repeatedly failed the men he brought on board.

Pioli fired Todd Haley, the only coach he’s ever hired. This is how their dysfunctional marriage had to end. A once-strong relationship deteriorated past personal differences and into professional obstacles.

The Chiefs could go nowhere with both Pioli and Haley in the same building, so in that way, the GM essentially pulled rank.

That was the easy part. Now we get to see, once and perhaps for all, whether Pioli is the golden-boy personnel guru from his Super Bowl-winning days in New England or just one more poser taking credit and fame off the glow of Bill Belichick’s star. LMAO

Because firing Haley is a meaningless delay tactic if Pioli doesn’t accept and reflect on his part of the Chiefs’ current mess.

We all understand that Haley made mistakes. The preseason plan was a disaster. Tyler Palko is still taking snaps long after he proved to be incompetent. An unsportsmanlike-conduct penalty against the Jets provided a sad image of Haley’s self-control, which, combined with a remarkably inconsistent and often uncompetitive season, made the Chiefs the magnetic opposite of what owner Clark Hunt wants them to be.

But if Haley failed, he followed Pioli’s example.

Because Pioli chose Haley, who coached the roster Pioli gave him. The Chiefs’ current state of disarray is as much an indictment of Pioli as Haley. The boss put the coach in a virtually unwinnable position: not enough support from either the general manager or the roster to do much more than hope for survival.

And this is where Pioli comes in. Or, more accurately, where he must come in.

Injuries to Jamaal Charles, Eric Berry, Matt Cassel and Tony Moeaki fundamentally changed what the Chiefs are capable of. But they also exposed so many of Pioli’s own shortcomings, and unless he takes this opportunity to stop creating self-assuring excuses to justify his ineffective status-quo style of management, there is no reason to believe the Chiefs can rise above NFL mediocrity.

One of Pioli’s great strengths is his thoughtfulness, his thoroughness, his steadiness. He isn’t reactive. He is measured. If he grows emotional, he has trained himself to put the decision aside until he’s calm. The most effective judgments, Pioli believes, are made with the brain, and not the heart.

This is part of what eventually led to fundamental differences with the man he hand-selected to be his first coach.

And more than just one of Pioli’s great strengths, this is also perhaps his greatest flaw … and a chunk of what is holding back the Chiefs.

Go back to the NFL’s truncated offseason. The whole thing lined up perfectly with Pioli’s sweet spot, set up to be won by the general manager with the best information and temperament to navigate what many inside the industry called the most hectic personnel period in league history.

Instead, Pioli treaded water.

He signed Steve Breaston (who shares an open and mutual man-crush on Haley) and Kelly Gregg while letting Ron Edwards and Shaun Smith walk. Opportunities to add a backup quarterback, or much-needed depth at other positions, floated by.

Pioli’s only personnel successes with the Chiefs are in the draft (Berry, Kendrick Lewis, Justin Houston) and contract extensions awarded to stars (Charles, Brandon Flowers, Tamba Hali). Notice the pattern here.

Draft selections come with inherent time limits. Negotiations for contract extensions have a predictable schedule.

Pioli is most effective when he knows what’s coming and can read the clock. He becomes tentative and hesitant among surprises and unknowns.

He wants control, over everything, and struggles in situations he can’t have it.

Nearly three full years after he took over, the Chiefs’ best players are still predominately holdovers from his predecessor, Carl Peterson, even as Pioli spends too much time and energy fixing what he sees as major holdover flaws from the previous leadership.

All of this means that Pioli is at the most critical point of his professional career in terms of how he’s remembered and thought of as a football man.

Some will expect him to close his eyes, cover his ears, la-la-la out all the criticism, and keep pushing the Chiefs in the same misguided direction.

That would support the narrative of Pioli as Ego Gone Wild, and almost certainly ensure that the Chiefs waste a championship window that will close along with the primes of Charles, Hali, Flowers and other stars.

A consequence of Pioli’s decision to speak publicly as little as possible is that it’s virtually impossible for anyone outside a small circle to know his motivations, perspective or fears.

If they did, they probably would see as much insecurity as ego. Part of his hesitation on personnel moves comes through second-guessing. Part of his focus on signing the team’s inherited stars is admitting he can’t find anyone better.

And if Pioli handles it the right way, part of firing the coach will be a very public acknowledgment that he — not Haley, not Hunt, not anyone else — made bad decisions that turned the Chiefs from division champion to disorder one year later.

How Pioli makes it through this very personal inner conflict will decide how his time in Kansas City ends. On Monday, he portrayed humility, saying he needed to do his job better.

That’s good, but ultimately irrelevant if he doesn’t do his job differently.

NJChiefsFan 12-13-2011 03:51 AM
Is it possible for KC media to trash on Cassel?

Slainte 12-13-2011 04:25 AM
That's nice and all, but Pioli's never gonna do this. There's no real change on the horizon.

BigMeatballDave 12-13-2011 04:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan (Post 8198891)
Is it possible for KC media to trash on Cassel?
Evidently not. Either they are stupid and think he's good or are gutless turds and are afraid to ask Pioli.

I doubt Scott would give a straight answer anyway...

threebag 12-13-2011 05:06 AM
**** Pioli.

Dave Lane 12-13-2011 05:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by threebag02 (Post 8198903)
**** Pioli.
Wrong "F" word.

Fire Pioli.

Fritz88 12-13-2011 05:48 AM
Championship or bust.

Mellinger reads CP.
Posted via Mobile Device

MMXcalibur 12-13-2011 06:00 AM
GoChiefs, why are you the only user that can't seem to stick with ONE username and avatar? Find one and be done with it already.

Fritz88 12-13-2011 06:06 AM
His analogy of Pioli being proactive stinks. How is keeping your stars, when you have loads of money, is an achievement?

His drafts were good but he will need years to recover from the first one.
Posted via Mobile Device

Phobia 12-13-2011 06:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCtotheSB (Post 8198911)
GoChiefs, why are you the only user that can't seem to stick with ONE username and avatar? Find one and be done with it already.
We mods usually change his name to coincide with the most recent reeruned thing he's done or posted.

Fritz88 12-13-2011 06:08 AM
Also, how is this shit roasting?

If he didn't flame Casshole, he didn't do much.
Posted via Mobile Device

Chiefnj2 12-13-2011 06:34 AM
"negotiations for contract extensions have a predictable schedule."

Under Peterson those contract extensions never happened early. Always at the last minute with some bad blood brewing between players and team. Scott at least got guys signed early compared to the King.

wazu 12-13-2011 06:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz88 (Post 8198916)
Also, how is this shit roasting?

If he didn't flame Casshole, he didn't do much.
Posted via Mobile Device
Agreed. Weak column.

Messier 12-13-2011 06:52 AM
We've got a few more years of Pioli. This is his last coach hire. If it fails then the heat is on him.

Earthling 12-13-2011 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messier (Post 8198936)
We've got a few more years of Pioli. This is his last coach hire. If it fails then the heat is on him.
A few years here...a few years there. After a while it starts to add up and its suddenly 5 or 6 years later and the Chiefs seem to be back at square 1 again.

FringeNC 12-13-2011 07:15 AM
Nobody would care about Tyson Jackson, Haley and Pioli would be getting along, all would be well....if...if Matt Cassel was half the quarterback Scott Pioli still believes. A discussion about Pioli's tenure without the Cassel's failure being the focal point is worthless.

Dexter Manley 12-13-2011 07:23 AM
Pioli = smart, 'cause he was with the Patriots you know...

and excelled at getting his glasses spattered with Bill b's @@@@

SenselessChiefsFan 12-13-2011 07:26 AM
He openly said he needs to do better.

I think not having a backup QB is on Haley. Palko was clearly his pick at the position and his guy.

I think that Waters being gone is on Haley. If he tells Pioli that he needs Waters, he is still here. The Chiefs were not against the cap. Haley had butted heads with Waters and that is why he is gone.

I think that Gaither starting in San Diego is on Haley. The Chiefs would have been better off putting Albert on the Right side and having Gaither at LT. That is IF the rumors are correct about Gaither refusing to play RT. (Don't think this is true, BTW, but IF true, the CHiefs are STILL better with him at LT and Albert at RT than with Albert at LT and Richardson at RT).

I think that Orton not starting at Chicago is on Haley.

I think that overall, Pioli was working with a petulant child. Toddler Haley was a large part of the problem. The hope was that he would grow into the position. He didn't.

el borracho 12-13-2011 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan (Post 8198891)
Is it possible for KC media to trash on Cassel?
Apparently not; this author actually makes reference to some imaginary "championship window." How anyone can connect the term championship window to a team with no QB and a total of 25 wins in the last five years is beyond me.

Deberg_1990 12-13-2011 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 8198966)
He openly said he needs to do better.

I think not having a backup QB is on Haley. Palko was clearly his pick at the position and his guy.

I think that Waters being gone is on Haley. If he tells Pioli that he needs Waters, he is still here. The Chiefs were not against the cap. Haley had butted heads with Waters and that is why he is gone.

I think that Gaither starting in San Diego is on Haley. The Chiefs would have been better off putting Albert on the Right side and having Gaither at LT. That is IF the rumors are correct about Gaither refusing to play RT. (Don't think this is true, BTW, but IF true, the CHiefs are STILL better with him at LT and Albert at RT than with Albert at LT and Richardson at RT).

I think that Orton not starting at Chicago is on Haley.

I think that overall, Pioli was working with a petulant child. Toddler Haley was a large part of the problem. The hope was that he would grow into the position. He didn't.
I agree with all this. Sure Pioli has made mistakes, but its not like he was just given nothing. Theres alot of talent on this team. A head coaches job is to analyze the skillsets hes been given and to put those players in positions to succeed. Get maximum effort. For the most part Haley was pretty lousy at that.

FAX 12-13-2011 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8198928)
"negotiations for contract extensions have a predictable schedule."

Under Peterson those contract extensions never happened early. Always at the last minute with some bad blood brewing between players and team. Scott at least got guys signed early compared to the King.
We need a term for this ... like maybe ... "Awesome Poop Syndrome" ... where you compare average with horrible and call it good.

As for the article, there is much truth in there, but you guys are correct; he's ignoring the 500 pound moron in the room.

I know some people hated his monotonic press conferences (where he was following company policy) or his passion for the game and winning (where he was unafraid to call a spade a spade), but in the end ... when all the smoke has cleared ... and all the chips have fallen ... and all the morons have gone to bed with visions of playoffs dancing in their brains ... Haley's biggest flaw will be the fact that he couldn't coach up a disaster at quarterback and the GM's $90 million dollar, untouchable golden boy.

FAX

htismaqe 12-13-2011 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 8198966)
He openly said he needs to do better.

I think not having a backup QB is on Haley. Palko was clearly his pick at the position and his guy.

I think that Waters being gone is on Haley. If he tells Pioli that he needs Waters, he is still here. The Chiefs were not against the cap. Haley had butted heads with Waters and that is why he is gone.

I think that Gaither starting in San Diego is on Haley. The Chiefs would have been better off putting Albert on the Right side and having Gaither at LT. That is IF the rumors are correct about Gaither refusing to play RT. (Don't think this is true, BTW, but IF true, the CHiefs are STILL better with him at LT and Albert at RT than with Albert at LT and Richardson at RT).

I think that Orton not starting at Chicago is on Haley.

I think that overall, Pioli was working with a petulant child. Toddler Haley was a large part of the problem. The hope was that he would grow into the position. He didn't.
And next year when we still suck, who will you blame then? Pioli loves the suckers like you.

FAX 12-13-2011 07:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 8198975)
I agree with all this. Sure Pioli has made mistakes, but its not like he was just given nothing. Theres alot of talent on this team. A head coaches job is to analyze the skillsets hes been given and to put those players in positions to succeed. Get maximum effort. For the most part Haley was pretty lousy at that.
I see that differently, though.

To my mind, Haley coached up some players including Bowe, DJ, Albert, Carr ... a bunch of guys who were made better as a result of his efforts.

FAX

FAX 12-13-2011 07:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 8198966)
He openly said he needs to do better.

I think not having a backup QB is on Haley. Palko was clearly his pick at the position and his guy.

I think that Waters being gone is on Haley. If he tells Pioli that he needs Waters, he is still here. The Chiefs were not against the cap. Haley had butted heads with Waters and that is why he is gone.

I think that Gaither starting in San Diego is on Haley. The Chiefs would have been better off putting Albert on the Right side and having Gaither at LT. That is IF the rumors are correct about Gaither refusing to play RT. (Don't think this is true, BTW, but IF true, the CHiefs are STILL better with him at LT and Albert at RT than with Albert at LT and Richardson at RT).

I think that Orton not starting at Chicago is on Haley.

I think that overall, Pioli was working with a petulant child. Toddler Haley was a large part of the problem. The hope was that he would grow into the position. He didn't.
For someone as sensible as yourself, you suppose much and prove little.

FAX

Chiefnj2 12-13-2011 07:59 AM
The press has been waiting for this since day 1 when Pioli came in and established the veil of secrecy. If KC was winning this year, the media would go along with it. But, with the team losing all guns are aimed at Pioli. Deservedly so for all of his 2009 decisions, but not for the agenda the press has.

durtyrute 12-13-2011 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan (Post 8198891)
Is it possible for KC media to trash on Cassel?
Nick is the only one that does it

Three7s 12-13-2011 08:14 AM
If you guys read the first bolded part, that's about as much a flame on Cassel as any. Pioli scared to take risks and not go with something he doesn't know about. That spells Cassel because he'd seen him with the Pats. The more I start hearing, the more I start believing that Pioli is crap. Even drafting Stanzi is a flaw now due to that connection with Ferentz.

The only way I'm changing my mindset is if he does what everyone else wants. DRAFT A ****ING QB IN THE 1ST ROUND WITH NO CONNECTIONS!

Deberg_1990 12-13-2011 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAX (Post 8198993)
I see that differently, though.

To my mind, Haley coached up some players including Bowe, DJ, Albert, Carr ... a bunch of guys who were made better as a result of his efforts.

FAX
They did, but the most important thing is, it didnt translate to WINS.

Also, the offense(what Haley was known for) was a complete failure under him. In 3 seasons the only time it was good and consistent was when Weis was here and really only for about an 8 or 9 game run during the middle of last year.

Cassel isnt a huge talent (thats on Pioli) but other coaches have proven you can get at production out of him at times. Haley never got anything out of him.

SenselessChiefsFan 12-13-2011 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 8198991)
And next year when we still suck, who will you blame then? Pioli loves the suckers like you.
Do you really think the Chiefs will suck? Heck, even with Haley, they would have been a lot better.

#1) We will have to see if they do, in fact, suck next year.

#2) We will have to see WHY they suck.

See, I try to be objective. I know that is so hard for people on this board to understand. I look at Cassel and can see that he is what Pioli expected. A hard worker who can be good with the right coaching and talent around him. A steady player. A guy to build with... (not build around). A guy that can hold down the position respectably until the right "franchise QB" comes along. Surely not great, but not as awful as this board thinks. Palko should have at least given us SOME appreciation for the fact that Cassel is at least a viable QB option.

But, make no mistake.... if Pioli gets the next hire at HC wrong, he should be out.

I think the late start affected his ability to get the best coach the first time. In hindsight, he would have been better off leaving Herm in place for a year while he looked around to find the right guy.

If he hires McDaniels or Ferentz, this will be his last coaching hire if they are not successful. If he hires a guy like Gruden, Cowher or Fisher, then he will get another hire if they fail.

Dexter Manley 12-13-2011 08:17 AM
Pioli scared to take risks...

'cause there was NO RISK in DUMPING JASON BABIN for NOTHING and CONVERTING TO A 3-4....

???????????????????????????

SenselessChiefsFan 12-13-2011 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAX (Post 8198995)
For someone as sensible as yourself, you suppose much and prove little.

FAX
Don't we all?

Direckshun 12-13-2011 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobbie (Post 8199051)
Pioli scared to take risks...

'cause there was NO RISK in DUMPING JASON BABIN for NOTHING and CONVERTING TO A 3-4....

???????????????????????????
God. Shut up.

memyselfI 12-13-2011 08:20 AM
Pioli definitely has issues and I'm giving him next season to see if he can turn it around. Same with Cassel. I do think that once Pioli decided Haley was a mistake he was not going to do much, IF ANYTHING, to change that. Thus, if Pioli hires a known and proven HC and drafts a QB or pays acquires some top free agents you know that he and Hunt may have been in cahoots in seeing that the Haley experiment did not work because they didn't like him. Once he won that playoff game they were stuck with him for another season. I guess time will tell.

FAX 12-13-2011 08:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 8199052)
Don't we all?
Yes. Yes, we do.

But some do it better than others.

FAX

HemiEd 12-13-2011 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 8198966)
He openly said he needs to do better.

I think not having a backup QB is on Haley. Palko was clearly his pick at the position and his guy.

I think that Waters being gone is on Haley. If he tells Pioli that he needs Waters, he is still here. The Chiefs were not against the cap. Haley had butted heads with Waters and that is why he is gone.

I think that Gaither starting in San Diego is on Haley. The Chiefs would have been better off putting Albert on the Right side and having Gaither at LT. That is IF the rumors are correct about Gaither refusing to play RT. (Don't think this is true, BTW, but IF true, the CHiefs are STILL better with him at LT and Albert at RT than with Albert at LT and Richardson at RT).

I think that Orton not starting at Chicago is on Haley.

I think that overall, Pioli was working with a petulant child. Toddler Haley was a large part of the problem. The hope was that he would grow into the position. He didn't.
I agree with most of this. All but the moving Albert part. They should have covered that with Gaither before they signed him.

2bikemike 12-13-2011 08:42 AM
There is plenty of blame to go around, and there is a lot of speculation swirling around. But I think Haley did do a good job of coaching up some players and failing on others. Which to me proves the point what works for some doesn't work for others. Haley was unable to adjust.

Weiss was sorely missed this year. He did a much better job of managing Cassel and IMHO play calling. The running off of Weiss is on Haley. There was no effort to replace Weiss with a legitimate OC as Haley thinks he can wear both hats. Clearly he isn't capable of doing that.

Pioli is responsible for aquiring talent. To leave money on the table when there are clearly needs that need to be met is just assinine if you want to contend. We are still dealing with the same holes on the O-line that we have been dealing with since Shields and Roaf got old. We can't develop a decent pass rush with the exception of Hali.

Dexter Manley 12-13-2011 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bikemike (Post 8199107)
We can't develop a decent pass rush with the exception of Hali.

... who was already here... as was Jason Babin for minimum wage...

Chiefnj2 12-13-2011 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bikemike (Post 8199107)
We can't develop a decent pass rush with the exception of Hali.
Houston hasn't developed by leaps and bounds the last month??

Dexter Manley 12-13-2011 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 8199057)
God. Shut up.
Uh oh...

um....

Let's see...

TFG originally dissed Pioli years ago for Babin...

But who is Babin?

Check Hebrew surnames...

THAT's why I need to "shut up." Apparently I am not allowed to notice talented Jewish players dumbed by holy Scottie Piolio for nuttin...

Dexter Manley 12-13-2011 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8199121)
Houston hasn't developed by leaps and bounds the last month??
just one toke = 4 games

dallaschiefsfan 12-13-2011 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 8198966)
He openly said he needs to do better.

I think not having a backup QB is on Haley. Palko was clearly his pick at the position and his guy.

I think that Waters being gone is on Haley. If he tells Pioli that he needs Waters, he is still here. The Chiefs were not against the cap. Haley had butted heads with Waters and that is why he is gone.

I think that Gaither starting in San Diego is on Haley. The Chiefs would have been better off putting Albert on the Right side and having Gaither at LT. That is IF the rumors are correct about Gaither refusing to play RT. (Don't think this is true, BTW, but IF true, the CHiefs are STILL better with him at LT and Albert at RT than with Albert at LT and Richardson at RT).

I think that Orton not starting at Chicago is on Haley.

I think that overall, Pioli was working with a petulant child. Toddler Haley was a large part of the problem. The hope was that he would grow into the position. He didn't.
So cancer is Haley's fault, too?

You were a Herm-lover. Haley replaced your man-crush coach. All comments and analysis you make have ZERO credibility.

Sofa King 12-13-2011 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 8198966)
He openly said he needs to do better.

I think not having a backup QB is on Haley. Palko was clearly his pick at the position and his guy.

I think that Waters being gone is on Haley. If he tells Pioli that he needs Waters, he is still here. The Chiefs were not against the cap. Haley had butted heads with Waters and that is why he is gone.

I think that Gaither starting in San Diego is on Haley. The Chiefs would have been better off putting Albert on the Right side and having Gaither at LT. That is IF the rumors are correct about Gaither refusing to play RT. (Don't think this is true, BTW, but IF true, the CHiefs are STILL better with him at LT and Albert at RT than with Albert at LT and Richardson at RT).

I think that Orton not starting at Chicago is on Haley.

I think that overall, Pioli was working with a petulant child. Toddler Haley was a large part of the problem. The hope was that he would grow into the position. He didn't.
No goddamnit!!! How do you not see how ****ing stupid this is??? Albert > Gaither. You don't move the better player because the shittier one refuses to do his job and play the position you want him to. LT >>>>>> RT

****!

Dartgod 12-13-2011 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 8199050)
I look at Cassel and can see that he is what Pioli expected. A hard worker who can be good with the right coaching and talent around him. A steady player. A guy to build with... (not build around). A guy that can hold down the position respectably until the right "franchise QB" comes along.
Bullshit. Pioli didn't give Cassel that contract to "hold down the position" until someone better came along. Pioli mistakenly thought he was the guy.

'Hamas' Jenkins 12-13-2011 10:31 AM
Roasted over a Bic lighter.

Start Croyle 12-13-2011 10:33 AM
Another sane and logical viewpoint! This is a good article!

FAX 12-13-2011 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bikemike (Post 8199107)
There is plenty of blame to go around, and there is a lot of speculation swirling around. But I think Haley did do a good job of coaching up some players and failing on others. Which to me proves the point what works for some doesn't work for others. Haley was unable to adjust.

Weiss was sorely missed this year. He did a much better job of managing Cassel and IMHO play calling. The running off of Weiss is on Haley. There was no effort to replace Weiss with a legitimate OC as Haley thinks he can wear both hats. Clearly he isn't capable of doing that.

Pioli is responsible for aquiring talent. To leave money on the table when there are clearly needs that need to be met is just assinine if you want to contend. We are still dealing with the same holes on the O-line that we have been dealing with since Shields and Roaf got old. We can't develop a decent pass rush with the exception of Hali.
Actually, that's not what is emerging as truth, Mr. 2bikemike. At least, not entirely.

Apparently, Weis and Haley disagreed as to how to properly develop Cassel. Weis then became petulant and told Haley to "do it himself". (By the way, that sounds a heck of a lot like this girl I once knew.) So, the idea that Weis "developed" Cassel is untrue. In fact, it has also been stated that Haley became upset as the media continually credited Weis with Cassel's perceived improvement. You can draw your own conclusions as to which man is the more intense whiny bitch in that respect.

These stories are going to run rampant again, I guess.

FAX

FAX 12-13-2011 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 8199049)
They did, but the most important thing is, it didnt translate to WINS.

Also, the offense(what Haley was known for) was a complete failure under him. In 3 seasons the only time it was good and consistent was when Weis was here and really only for about an 8 or 9 game run during the middle of last year.

Cassel isnt a huge talent (thats on Pioli) but other coaches have proven you can get at production out of him at times. Haley never got anything out of him.
I hesitate to disagree with you, Mr. Deberg_1990. I have the highest possible regard for your posting abilities and believe that you are an intelligent, thoughtful person.

Howeve, Cassel is an asswipe. He succeeded only when he was with NE who could recover from his sacks and moronic play due to the team around him and the system he was in. He only succeeded here when he played against other bad teams. Blaming Haley for Cassel is like blaming Jesus for tittah moles. You cannot win games with that moron. It is the reality of the situation.

Anyhow, here's what you said, "Theres (sic) alot of talent on this team. A head coaches job is to analyze the skillsets hes been given and to put those players in positions to succeed. Get maximum effort. For the most part Haley was pretty lousy at that."

I merely stated that Haley did, in fact, coach up and develop several key players on this team and most everybody else improved during his tenure. It is patently unfair to give Haley no credit and all blame. Unfair and nonfactual.

FAX

Bearcat 12-13-2011 11:00 AM
tl;dr:

Quote:
Injuries to Jamaal Charles, Eric Berry, Matt Cassel and Tony Moeaki fundamentally changed what the Chiefs are capable of. But they also exposed so many of Pioli’s own shortcomings, and unless he takes this opportunity to stop creating self-assuring excuses to justify his ineffective status-quo style of management, there is no reason to believe the Chiefs can rise above NFL mediocrity.

Rasputin 12-13-2011 11:23 AM
I am sick of the "Patriot way" I am a Chiefs fan not a got damn Patriot fan.

I want the Chiefs to give homage of the great Sitting Bull indian chief that made Custer's last stand. Clark Hunts failure to bring in a GM that does it out of form from there convictions not our or his own convictions to build a championship team. I want the Chiefs to get credit for winning a Super Bowl and not the Patriots getting a piece of it. They had there's to enjoy **** them.

htismaqe 12-13-2011 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC Tattoo (Post 8199512)
I am sick of the "Patriot way" I am a Chiefs fan not a got damn Patriot fan.

I want the Chiefs to give homage of the great Sitting Bull indian chief that made Custer's last stand. Clark Hunts failure to bring in a GM that does it out of form from there convictions not our or his own convictions to build a championship team. I want the Chiefs to get credit for winning a Super Bowl and not the Patriots getting a piece of it. They had there's to enjoy **** them.
Great post.

YourMult 12-13-2011 11:33 AM
I'm tired of the Chiefs repeatedly becoming a vagina-touting version of some other team. The Niners. The Rams. Now the Patriots. I guess we should be happy there isn't isn't a team called the Cumguzzlers, because if there was we would hire their last head coach, and become an even shittier version of the ****ing Cumguzzlers.

How's that for an introductory post?

FAX 12-13-2011 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YourMom (Post 8199565)
I'm tired of the Chiefs repeatedly becoming a vagina-touting version of the head coach's previous team. The Niners. The Rams. Now the Patriots. Every coach brings over some people they are comfortable with, but this is ridiculous. I guess we should be happy there isn't isn't a team called the Cumguzzlers, because if there was we would hire their last head coach, and become an even shittier version of the ****ing Cumguzzlers.

How's that for an introductory post?
Not bad, Ms. YourMom. Not bad, at all.

I particularly like the use of the term "Cumguzzlers" in the context you chose.

FAX

Sofa King 12-13-2011 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YourMom (Post 8199565)
I'm tired of the Chiefs repeatedly becoming a vagina-touting version of some other team. The Niners. The Rams. Now the Patriots. I guess we should be happy there isn't isn't a team called the Cumguzzlers, because if there was we would hire their last head coach, and become an even shittier version of the ****ing Cumguzzlers.

How's that for an introductory post?
Interesting. As is your username choice.

FringeNC 12-13-2011 11:57 AM
Suppose the rumors of Pioli undermining Haley are true. Suppose Clark Hunt just found out about them during the exit negotiations with Haley. Might explain why Pioli seemed shell-shocked during the PC.

Rausch 12-13-2011 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 8199642)
Suppose the rumors of Pioli undermining Haley are true.
Wait, wasn't Haley "The Don's" choice?

Haley and Cassel were both big wants for Pioli...

FAX 12-13-2011 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 8199651)
Wait, wasn't Haley "The Don's" choice?

Haley and Cassel were both big wants for Pioli...
Which would make his nefarious deeds all the more snarky.

FAX

Bane 12-13-2011 12:03 PM
What did sportscenter just say?They kept Pioli because he was the mastermind behind the SB rings in N.E huh....LMAO stupid mother****ers /BB.

Rausch 12-13-2011 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAX (Post 8199659)
Which would make his nefarious deeds all the more snarky.

FAX
Or he's imperfect and made two REALLY shitty evaluations in year one...

Bowser 12-13-2011 12:06 PM
All you pricks need to shut your traps. We are still mathematically in the playoff race, here. You think that happens by mistake?

FAX 12-13-2011 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 8199680)
Or he's imperfect and made two REALLY shitty evaluations in year one...
No evil genius gets it right all the time.

FAX

WhiteWhale 12-13-2011 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 8199049)
They did, but the most important thing is, it didnt translate to WINS.

Also, the offense(what Haley was known for) was a complete failure under him. In 3 seasons the only time it was good and consistent was when Weis was here and really only for about an 8 or 9 game run during the middle of last year.

Cassel isnt a huge talent (thats on Pioli) but other coaches have proven you can get at production out of him at times. Haley never got anything out of him.
Yeah, other coach has proven that with Wes Welker, Randy Moss, a spread offense operated entirely from the shotgun, and overall a roster that won 18 games the previous season... with that cast he can be mediocre.

He can also be mediocre against terrible teams.

Cassel blows. Haley got more out of him in 2010 than I ever thought Cassel was capable of.

Okie_Apparition 12-13-2011 12:26 PM
"Do you feel you gave Haley the players he needed to be competitive?"

That covers Cassel just fine

Rasputin 12-13-2011 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAX (Post 8199685)
No evil genius gets it right all the time.

FAX
Wile E Coyote self proclaimed genius. His failures time and time again have come from the use of ACME products. Even as a genius he never learned from his mistake of the usage of a product that crushed him or made him fall off of cliffs in his maniac obsession to catch the ever elusive Road Runner.

boogblaster 12-13-2011 01:08 PM
anyway ya look at it .. its another 3 years before we can compete .. HC OC QB .......

Rausch 12-13-2011 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogblaster (Post 8199891)
anyway ya look at it .. its another 3 years before we can compete .. HC OC QB .......
No reason for that.

This team has talent. The ****ing idea we don't is proposed by those who make excuses for HC's.

Our talent is is pretty impressive. We have 2 of the top 15 corners in the league. We have a top 10 pass rusher. We have 3 WR's that can take it to the house.

Even with injuries our front 7 is learning how to crush on the QB.

With injuries, and this schedule, this team should be 8-8.

With a HC who could take what he has and MAKE IT BETTER (the main point of a HC) we could have won this division.

I might be going out on a limb here but perhaps John Fox is that type of HC and THAT'S why they're looking at a division crown.



We won't, and this year we don't deserve to. We need to see some fail so we recognize when a real HC steps in and finds a way to truly elevate the team.

WhiteWhale 12-13-2011 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 8199948)
No reason for that.

This team has talent. The ****ing idea we don't is proposed by those who make excuses for HC's.

Our talent is is pretty impressive. We have 2 of the top 15 corners in the league. We have a top 10 pass rusher. We have 3 WR's that can take it to the house.

Even with injuries our front 7 is learning how to crush on the QB.

With injuries, and this schedule, this team should be 8-8.

With a HC who could take what he has and MAKE IT BETTER (the main point of a HC) we could have won this division.

I might be going out on a limb here but perhaps John Fox is that type of HC and THAT'S why they're looking at a division crown.



We won't, and this year we don't deserve to. We need to see some fail so we recognize when a real HC steps in and finds a way to truly elevate the team.
John Fox is not that type of coach. His panthers underachieved all the time.

Tebow is a terrible QB who is insanely popular. He doesn't play well, but his team just happens to always win close games.

I'm calling shenanigans.

Beef Supreme 12-13-2011 02:02 PM
Our offense can't even make a first down. ****ing everyone is on my shit list, Pioli is just at the top.

OnTheWarpath15 12-13-2011 02:11 PM
Wow.

Just heard the clip from yesterday's presser where Gretz asked Pioli if hiring Haley was a mistake.

"Uh, um, um, uh, uh....uncomfortable stammering"


Why can't Pioli just admit that he made a mistake?

FAX 12-13-2011 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 8200170)
Wow.

Just heard the clip from yesterday's presser where Gretz asked Pioli if hiring Haley was a mistake.

"Uh, um, um, uh, uh....uncomfortable stammering"


Why can't Pioli just admit that he made a mistake?
Honestly, Pioli didn't come across as an "in control", "confident" guy in that presser. Not at all.

FAX

Chiefnj2 12-13-2011 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAX (Post 8200182)
Honestly, Pioli didn't come across as an "in control", "confident" guy in that presser. Not at all.

FAX
Do you think part of the meeting with him and Clark was Clark telling Pioli he's on thin ice?

doomy3 12-13-2011 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 8200170)
Wow.

Just heard the clip from yesterday's presser where Gretz asked Pioli if hiring Haley was a mistake.

"Uh, um, um, uh, uh....uncomfortable stammering"


Why can't Pioli just admit that he made a mistake?
I don't think that really means anything at all. He was careful not to throw Haley under the bus during the presser and I think this was just a continuation of that.

He would have looked like a serious asshole if he would have said hiring Haley was a mistake. Rarely will you see a GM do that. About the only time I can really remember that is when Al Davis was throwing his coaches under the bus when he fired them.

When a guy gets fired, the GM is admitting it didn't work as he hoped it would. The question is kind of a stupid question really.

O.city 12-13-2011 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8200222)
Do you think part of the meeting with him and Clark was Clark telling Pioli he's on thin ice?
Hopefully.


Would have loved for Hunt to turn to Scott and say " Todd was the first to go, you've got 3 years, Lombardi or bust".

FAX 12-13-2011 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8200222)
Do you think part of the meeting with him and Clark was Clark telling Pioli he's on thin ice?
I have no idea as I am no longer invited to their meetings being as how I was a pro-Haley guy, and all. However, I should like to speculate out the ass like unto Mr. SensibleChiefsfan ...

After what several Planeteers mentioned regarding the presser, I went back and watched it again paying special attention to both physical and facial clues that indicate discomfort and falsification (as you know, Mr. Chiefnj2, I am a student of such things).

I determined that Clark felt far more "in control" and calm than Pioli. Clark did not outright lie during the conference, and even though he did dance around answers, he did so with composure. Pioli, on the other hand, looked very uncomfortable throughout and was either extremely ill-prepared or downright discombobulated. Pioli also resorted to lies regarding his relationship with Haley and the reasons for the dismissal at this time.

In summary, Clark is pissed off and desires a course correction that does not involve technical fouls on the HC and lots of curse words. Pioli appears to have been doused with a jug of Humility Juice.

The thing I thought that was most telling was Pioli's comment that "I have to do a better job" in reference to the roster. I think it was Gretz who posed the question ... "so ... was it coaching or talent?" that caught Pioli completely off guard and off balance. It's clear to me, at least, that Pioli is embarrassed by something ... it could be that his ass was kicked by the man sitting next to him ... or it could be that he was simply cowed by the fact that his HC choice didn't work out.

FAX

Rasputin 12-13-2011 02:42 PM
After listening to the press and if I didn't know better? Sounds like they want to hire a twin duplicate of Haley? It was like there was nothing wrong with Haley at all & nothing to warrent the fireing of him so they just fired him any ways.

I'm happy with the canning of Haley, but left with less than desirable thrill of Pioli as GM. He says things to make himself sound good or smarter than the average Joe. He said had nothing to do with Palko and the determination that Palko should be the guy under center. They repeated the idea that we are mathmatically in the race. What hogwash is this? I don't care about the guy who gives us best chance to win a game. I want to see the guy or players that have the potential to be on this team that wins championships.

Chief Faithful 12-13-2011 02:43 PM
Mellinger has gone full Whitlock.

FringeNC 12-13-2011 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAX (Post 8200264)
I have no idea as I am no longer invited to their meetings being as how I was a pro-Haley guy, and all. However, I should like to speculate out the ass like unto Mr. SensibleChiefsfan ...

After what several Planeteers mentioned regarding the presser, I went back and watched it again paying special attention to both physical and facial clues that indicate discomfort and falsification (as you know, Mr. Chiefnj2, I am a student of such things).

I determined that Clark felt far more "in control" and calm than Pioli. Clark did not outright lie during the conference, and even though he did dance around answers, he did so with composure. Pioli, on the other hand, looked very uncomfortable throughout and was either extremely ill-prepared or downright discombobulated. Pioli also resorted to lies regarding his relationship with Haley and the reasons for the dismissal at this time.

In summary, Clark is pissed off and desires a course correction that does not involve technical fouls on the HC and lots of curse words. Pioli appears to have been doused with a jug of Humility Juice.

The thing I thought that was most telling was Pioli's comment that "I have to do a better job" in reference to the roster. I think it was Gretz who posed the question ... "so ... was it coaching or talent?" that caught Pioli completely off guard and off balance. It's clear to me, at least, that Pioli is embarrassed by something ... it could be that his ass was kicked by the man sitting next to him ... or it could be that he was simply cowed by the fact that his HC choice didn't work out.

FAX
Yep. And then there is also the possibility that Clark is appalled by the political games the front office played on Haley, if he just found out, which is possible, given that I don't think he's informed about the team as most CP'ers.

htismaqe 12-13-2011 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 8200170)
Wow.

Just heard the clip from yesterday's presser where Gretz asked Pioli if hiring Haley was a mistake.

"Uh, um, um, uh, uh....uncomfortable stammering"


Why can't Pioli just admit that he made a mistake?
How about the part where they need someone who can help them continue to develop..."not just the young guys"...

He's talking about MATT ****ING CASSEL. I want to puke.

OnTheWarpath15 12-13-2011 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 8200316)
How about the part where they need someone who can help them continue to develop..."not just the young guys"...

He's talking about MATT ****ING CASSEL. I want to puke.
Factory of sadness.

Estron 12-13-2011 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bikemike (Post 8199107)
Pioli is responsible for acquiring talent. To leave money on the table when there are clearly needs that need to be met is just asinine if you want to contend.
Is the money being left on the table because of Pioli or because of Hunt? Has Hunt ever said to Pioli, "Go get me the best team you can get within the cap," or have his instructions been, "Let's see what we can do with the cheapest talent we can get"?

If it's on Hunt, then that's just too bad; as long as Hunt doesn't start gabbling Marge Schott-style about how good Hitler was, you can't, can't, can't fire the owner. But if the decision to spend so little was Pioli's, then why hasn't Hunt fired him already?

FAX 12-13-2011 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estron (Post 8200698)
Is the money being left on the table because of Pioli or because of Hunt? Has Hunt ever said to Pioli, "Go get me the best team you can get within the cap," or have his instructions been, "Let's see what we can do with the cheapest talent we can get"?

If it's on Hunt, then that's just too bad; as long as Hunt doesn't start gabbling Marge Schott-style about how good Hitler was, you can't, can't, can't fire the owner. But if the decision to spend so little was Pioli's, then why hasn't Hunt fired him already?
The cap deal is a bit of a mirage. We have a young team which naturally tends to keep the payroll down. We haven't seemed to have much difficulty in coming to terms with guys we want to keep, though. And that's an indicator that we're not being too chintzy. Then, you have FA which is a deal you normally use to fill in players once you've built your core roster. Most people will tell you that's where and when the money needs to be spent.

However, it's pretty clear that the Hunts decided to stay under the cap in order to recoup their investment in the Arrowhead renovations. Even so, I'm not sure how spending more money would have improved the team so much that it would have made a difference this year.

You could make a legitimate argument that we could have spent money to improve our depth or found players at a couple of key positions. Still, unless or until we have a quarterback who can compete at this level, that's patching holes in a boat that's already at the bottom of the Sea Of Dashed Aspirations.

FAX


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