Offense vs. Defense in the playoffs...
 

Seems so far only 1 of the offensive juggernauts is still in it....

I know, one of those had a rookie starting at QB so that skews it a little but for the most part it seems the teams with that are better known for defense have won with NE being the exception. Houston as well had a great defense but I think they are still an offensive team by design.

I see it as..

Defensive teams:

Denver 1-1
Steelers 0-1
Niners 1-0
Baltimore 1-0
Giants 2-0


Offensive teams:

NO 1-1
Detroit 0-1
NE 1-0
Falcons 0-1
Bengals 0-1
GB 0-1
Houston 1-1

Tally Offensive teams:
3-4

Defensive Teams:
5-2

heresy Ban

Giants have a Great O

True..all the teams have respectible offenses but I have always viewed the Giants as more a defensive team..

The Giants offense is scary good. Perfectly balanced and Eli is as hot as you can get right now.

Flacco & Smith are FQBs now

Franchise QB and top 10 defense will win you alot of games.

The Giants have been able to score like bilay chokes down mod cock.Almost at will in other words.

Yes but I wouldn't call them a "high-flying" offense like you would NO, NE, GB, etc. I think their defense sets up a lot of their offense as where NO or NE can just flat outscore you in a shootout. I don't see the Giants as that kind of team overall. I think they depend on their defense to put their offense in good positions.

Giants are a defensive team?

Oh, Pete thread.

Giants have the #1 defense in the post season. Granted they have the #3 offense

Houston's an offensive team?

Dude, they were defensive juggernauts this season, and that's when a season ending injury to their best player (Williams)

Then you haven't been watching.

Yes but they are traditionally an offensive team. I am basing this off the way the teams have been built over the last couple years. Until this year, Houston was an offensive team.

Eli Manning had 274 yards passing.

AT HALFTIME.

1st round QBs, should also be factored in

I've been watching their defense shut other teams down and putting their offense in great situations.

Only Houston, NE and Cinci are playing without a 1st rounder, correct?

Offensive or Defensive or Balanced? Giants are a balanced team to me. Niners are Defensive as well the Ravens. Pats are offensive.

Ok, so let's look at it like this...going into this game...

Who had the better offense, GB or NY?

Who had the better defense, GB or NY?

The Giants defense was 27th in the NFL in yards and 25th in point. Their offense was 8th in yards and 9th in points.

They were 4th in the NFL in passing yards per attempt, behind New Orleans, Green Bay, and New England.

and look who's in the AFC/NFC championship? Brady is the only QB left that wasn't a 1st round QB.

That's fair. I think NY is the most balanced team in the playoffs.

Is there a point here you are getting at sometime soon?

imo it's because so much of Defense is about effort and focus

come playoff time the players on defense are ready to give 1000% and sacrifice their bodies completely to succeed.

So the defenses get better come playoff time.

Except that, over a 16-game season, they weren't balanced at all.

They were HEAVILY weighted towards OFFENSE.

There might be some truth to that. I guess they figure that if they lose, they'll have all offseason to heal.

Really? From all the shit that has been discussed about taking a shot to attain a 1st round QB and the higher probability of that player being a Franchise QB that would lead to more wins in the post season then to the Superbowl appearances/victories you ask this?

Hey man, didn't want to assume what it was you were trying to get out...

Pete should be a mod soon at this rate!

Dude, are you ever gonna move out of mommy's house?

I'll move out as soon as you admit you are wrong.

Well the Giants are winning right now with their defense....which is why they have the #1 defense in the post season. It wasn't their offense that held Atlanta to 2 points.

G-Men were 8th in offense and 27th in defense.


Nice work.

Never Mind. htismq beat me to it.

Give me the quarterback and I'll take my chances.


The Saints turned it over 5 ****ing times and still had a chance to win the game. Because of the defense was it?

The Packs offense completely shit the bed. The Giants won because the Pack couldn't get their d off the field because Manning was bauce.

The 2006 Colts "won with their defense" during their playoff run.

Good thing for Peyton Manning he played on a defensive team.

True...I am looking at their schedule..all their highscoring and shootout type games came against teams with bad defenses. Their last 2 wins, which is what got them in the playoffs, their defens held their opponents to 14 points in both games.

Some other key games...they beat NE and held Ne to 20 points
They got outscored by Seattle, which says little for the defense, I agree
They lost to SF
They lost to the Skins twice only scoring 10 points and 14 points

Their highscoring games were against
Philly once
Arizona
Buffalo
GB
And NYJ

I know what the stats say but when I look at them I see a good offense when their defense is playing well or when they are playing against a bad defense. They won 2 shootout games all season. One of those against Arizona.

The Giants really have a good offense and a good defense.

As much as we bitch about getting a franchise qb that he will magically take us to many playoff wins, you have to have both in the playoffs to win.

SF -2.5 NYG

NYG scored 30 points 4 times all season..

NO did it 10 times
GB did it 11 times
NE did it 12 times
Houston did it 5 times but lost their starting QB

These are what I call offensive teams.

I'm convinced. Good job, Pete.

You guys are being unfair to pete here, I think this is a good insight.

By the way, has anyone noticed how teams who turn the ball over in the playoffs tend to lose? Maybe I should start a thread.

ROFL

I love me a pete thread.

Eli Manning a #1 overall draft pick and Alex Smith a #1 overall draft pick.

In fact the only QB still left in the playoffs who wasn't a first rond draft pick is Tom Brady.

I don't think anyone is arguing that a #1 QB doesn't improves your odds a great deal.

Alex Smith and Joe Flacco are average QBs playing for outstanding defensive teams. I don't care what their draft position is.

Both are on run 1st pass 2nd teams as well

You're wrong you have to have an elite QB to get to the superbowl,

Like Joe Flacco Or Eli Manning

LOL

/cp

Yup.

For the record, the majority of the time in this modern NFL, the passing team will win out. But in this particular playoff, defense/running is king. Apart from Brady, every team has been KO'ed. People who want to say otherwise are fooling themselves.

That being said, I don't think there's any way that the QBs don't win out on this one. Eli and Brady are two terrific QBs, and I think they make the difference next week.

and?

tim tebow had 31 yards per completion or something redonkulous in the Pitt game...

Stats can be misleading.....I really don't think Eli is an elite QB like his bro, but shit I could be wrong.

Eli is good...not elite but good.

They just showed the first TD Eli through...was a 66 yarder....15 yard pass, two missed tackles and the WR runs 50 yards for the score. I'd take but as you say, stats can be slightly misleading

So what does Eli have to do to become Elite?

If he were to win a SB this year he would have 2, which is one more than his brother who you all say is elite.

He coudl possibly have two SB rings, beating Tom Brady both times.

IMO he's elite.

Denver's D really isn't that good, expecially with a gimpy Von Miller. I guess I'll concede they are a defensive team though with how horrific thier offense is.

I think elite gets used a little loosely. An elite Qb doesn't put up 10 and 14 points to WASH twice in the same year. You saw the list I made of Brees, Rodgers and Brady, right? Those teams scored over 30 points in over half of their games. None of them with what you would call great defenses or great running games even. That is what elite QB's do though. They put the offense in position to put points on the board, a lot. Even if Eli won a 2nd SB I wouldn't put him in the elite category. He is a very good QB but I wouldn't label him elite.

Eli Manning makes big plays in big games hence being called an elite QB. I'm not going to argue with anyone about that especially after today's game.

I suppose that all boils down to how you define Elite....by that definition he would be a better QB than Marino....

So I don't think for me that the rings are the sole definition of an elite QB.

But I guess everyone has their own definition of elite.

Brees couldn't outscore the Rams this year and lost to the Bucs.

Rodgers put up what 14 against the Chiefs this year.

I think you are a little tough on Eli, but I do get where you are coming from.

Eli is a good QB, but I agree the term Elite is thrown around too much, he is a great QB but from what I have seen and going by stats, I can't call him elite.

I guess if he wins the SB , and does friggin awesome the next 2 games, I can always change my mind?

Well, Id id say every QB has a game or two where they are off their best. But the rest of the season they light it up. Eli I just don't put up with those others. I mean however you look at it, yards or rating or comp % he is only top 5 in 1 and that is yards and there he is #4. You look at Brees, Brady and Rodgers and they are in the top 5 of everything. That is elite, imo. Elite means the best of the best and I think Eli is just shy of that level.

How do you beat an offensive juggernaut? Didn't the Chiefs lay out the blueprint against the Packers.

Control the ball, keep the juggernaut offense off of the field, play tough defense, run the clock out(run the ball).

Guys on here have been talking like tough defense doesn't matter anymore, it's a passing league. To me, defense has never been more important. The best way to beat an offensive juggernaut is to stop them. Your chances in a shootout, even if you too are an offensive juggernaut are less than if you can play good defense and respectable offense.

Thats true.


However, Manning has one thing those three don't which is a running game.

I think elite qbs can win games but they can't consitently win playoff games alone.

As much as I bitch about hte Chiefs getting one, you still gotta put good people around them.

****in' A' right there LOGIC NUKE BOMB.

I agree and the team playing the best defense right now is NY. However you have to have an offense and a QB that is good enough to take advantage of a good defense. We had good defenses fo ryears but never had the offense to do anything with it except with Montana. Baltimore is going to be tough because they can run the ball, Flaco can make some passes when he needs too and their defense can shut down just about any offense. Out fo the teams left NE is the one team that has a lackluster defense. I don't count their effort against Denver because if Denver had Cassel even they play that game at least a little better. Probably still lose but still.

How many BS threads does this guy pump out? There's a better, more thought out one already on the front page.
It amazes me that the guy can continue to reminded that his threads are stupid, and pointless, yet it doesn't faze him in the slightest.
Eli is elite. Period.

I post them just to watch your lack of self control and read your insulting posts that you obviously feel compelled to post in such stupid threads. Your schtick is quite humorous anymore.

I don't know how many BS threads I pump out but I do know you have a post in every single one of them. LMAO

You could have easily posted your OP in the thread already on the front page.
Do you not notice that more than half the threads you start are filled with "Oh god another Pete thread" posts?
I think you feel like you have to start new threads all of the time simply to get the responses that you would not garner by posting them in the threads where they belong.

And you could have easily ignored this thread. Do you see me giving a **** about the "oh no another pete thread" crap? I think you feel like you need to play thread nazi or something. It's pretty ****ing simple. If you don't like my threads then don't read them. Or you can post your usual string of insulting bullshit. Matters not to moi.

Now you have a nice ****ing evening.....

I've enjoyed reading your comments.

Here is my opinion:

The truth is when a record setting offense or top rated defense comes up against top level competition; teams most likely take on a different look. Fast track to the post season 'it's winning by any means when it counts -- in the playoffs.'

The Giants beat a team that was 15-1 and 8-0 at home this season – You might ask, what good did it do for them? It made history; "A 15-win team had never lost its first game in a postseason, until the Packers did."

These are not the same Giants that were losing four straight games in season. They lost eight players on defense alone. Players were injured that were irreplaceable. A healthy Tuck, Osi, Boley along with others are back.

Osi and Boley accounted for all four sacks today.

If you’re wondering why the Giants defense is playing well; Perry Fewell had changed their defensive scheme in December.

Fewell had to endure criticism from the media and front office that threatened his job.



If this may interest you read here: Perry Fewell has a new game plan

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2...ants_defe.html


http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2...efense_wi.html

The New York Times had this to say:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/sp...e-his-lot.html

Eli Manning has played well this season. But he's not "elite". He won a Super Bowl because he is the luckiest mother****er in football and had a Hail Mary bounce off his receiver's head and get caught. Being lucky doesn't make you elite. Is he efficient? Sometimes. Is he clutch? Sometimes. Is he elite? No. "Elite" to me are guys who are Canton-bound who can take over a game by themselves and win it for you. "Elite" is the trio of BRB (Brees Rodgers Brady).

Eli was 7th in QB rating this season (under those three and Romo, Stafford, and Schaub). He was 5th in YPG (under the Trio, and Stafford). He was 14th in completion percentage. He was 5th in YPA (under Rodgers, Brady, Schaub, and Palmer).

He is what he is: a good QB who can sometimes be very good, and sometimes not be very good, and is solidly in that second-tier. Sometimes he rises to the top, sometimes he doesn't. Enough to win a Super Bowl? Sure. But "elite"? No.

Remember when everyone in KC hated Peter Guinta? He's doing a good job with NYG's secondary.

Offensive defences or defensive offences?

The Giants secondary has been up and down all season. They just hit an up swing at the exact right time.

Your conveniently ommitted the 5 or 6 CLUTCH throws Eli made to ice that game.

Alex Smith did the same thing.

All offense and no defense = loss.

All defense and no QB = loss.

It was down because of massive injuries.

That's some of it, yes. Just saying Guinta isn't a miracle worker.

Of course, he's not a goat either.

There's a reason I have that line in my sig.

I don't read you much. The reason: Your posts are not worthy of my time.

However, you wouldn't know 'elite' if it smacked you in your face.

Football 101: Quarterback stats are useless.

He was their secondary coach when they beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl too. It's funny how those things work. Colts fans hated DC Vic Fangio, and he really wasn't very successful... he failed in Indy, didn't do very well in Houston either... really hadn't done anything of note in almost 15 years. Now he's coordinating the Niners defense, and in one season they look really nasty, top 5 in several defensive categories, and probably had some of the best run defense numbers in recent NFL history.

That's why I'm finding it hard to get excited or mad about any of the OC or DC choices. Past success/failure isn't indicative of what will happen.