Originally Posted by Bwana (Post 8308189)

Another example of why they need to stop screwing around with the Keystone pipeline project.

Originally Posted by Donger (Post 8308224)

Yes. Yes! YYYYYEEESSSS!

And I'm spent.

Originally Posted by Bwana (Post 8308189)

Another example of why they need to stop screwing around with the Keystone pipeline project.

Originally Posted by journeyscarab (Post 8308231)

That's not going to happen anytime soon...

Breaking: State Department to reject Keystone pipeline today
http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...E8P_story.html

By Juliet Eilperin and Steven Mufson, Wednesday, January 18, 10:39 AM
The Obama administration will announce this afternoon it is rejecting a Canadian firm’s application for a permit to build and operate a massive oil pipeline across the U.S.-Canada border, according to sources who have been briefed on the matter.

However the administration will allow TransCanada to reapply after it develops an alternate route through the sensitive habitat of Nebraska’s Sandhills. Deputy Secretary of State William J. Burns will make the announcement, which comes in response to a congressionally-mandated deadline of Feb. 21 for action on the proposed Keystone pipeline.

Originally Posted by oldandslow (Post 8308226)

There isn't a rancher/farmer (all conservatives) in SD or NE that supports keystone. Lot's of reasons why.

Originally Posted by oldandslow (Post 8308226)

There isn't a rancher/farmer (all conservatives) in SD or NE that supports keystone. Lot's of reasons why.

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 8308248)

Eventually they will consider dirt too valuable a resource to dig.

Originally Posted by Coltman (Post 8308280)

said he would not support the Keystone Pipeline. There goes 100,000 good paying jobs.

Originally Posted by penchief (Post 8308296)

I would rank Air, Water, and Soil above gas and oil on the list of most valuable resources. Just my opinion, though.

Unfortunately, my opinion doesn't count as much the opinions of those who place Wall Street profits above all else that is holy.

Originally Posted by Donger (Post 8308315)

Boy, I sure hope you don't use any crude products. You know, those which are delivered to you and your vehicle by pipeline and by sea.

Originally Posted by penchief (Post 8308404)

Gee, I hope you don't expect to breathe clean air or drink clean water. You know, those things that are essential to your existence.

Hey, I'm all good with energy exploration. I'm all for energy independence, too. Just because our choices are limited by a market that is monopolized by fossil fuels doesn't mean that I'm a hypocrite if I choose air and water over gas and oil. I just want it done safely and cleanly. If it can't be done safely and cleanly we are smart enough to find a better way. But we choose not to because of greed.

However, if it can't be done cleanly and safely I'm all for waiting until it can. The long term cost for the many can be too high just so a few in the short term can get rich.

Drill Baby Drill isn't about energy independence, either. It's about a few entities getting filthy rich. 90% of the gas being extracted from the Marcellus shale goes straight to the world market. At a huge environmental cost to the people who live in that region.

Interesting that America's number one export is fuel but the rhetoric is still about energy independence. It's all propaganda and double speak by the energy industry and those who get rich manipulating the market. It doesn't matter if the pursuit of that goal turns the United States into a third world country in the process.

The Keystone Pipeline is not going to make us any more energy independent than the Marcellus Shale. And it sure as hell won't make the price of gas go down either. The threat of high gas prices is the gun put to our head by the industry in order to continue getting its way. It will make a bunch of people rich, though. It's all a big game and we are forced to play along.

Lies, lies, and more lies.....

Originally Posted by gblowfish (Post 8308436)

Vasoline is a petroleum product.
The CP should be in panic mode by Monday!

Originally Posted by oldandslow (Post 8308226)

There isn't a rancher/farmer (all conservatives) in SD or NE that supports keystone. Lot's of reasons why.

Originally Posted by penchief (Post 8308404)

Drill Baby Drill isn't about energy independence, either. It's about a few entities getting filthy rich.

Originally Posted by Donger (Post 8308428)

That's the longest, "Well, yeah, I buy lots of gasoline but I like to bitch about it occasionally being messy" response I've ever seen.

You already use plenty of crude from Canada and Mexico.

Originally Posted by penchief (Post 8308503)

Again, I guess you don't ever breathe clean air or drink clean water. Because it would seem that some people take those type of things for granted.

I buy as little gasoline as I can. I'm a conservative that way. However, your analogy is weak. The only way someone could avoid using petrolium products in our society is to kill themself. Or live like Grizzly Adams (which by the way, is the direction I'm headed). But thanks to the fact that there is a damn gas rig on every ****ing mountain top in my back yard now, that dream is kind of ****ed, too.

Just because we've chosen to **** ourselves over with fossil fuels doesn't mean we might as well say, "**** it," and go all in. Which is exactly what we are doing at the cost of our future. If we can put a man on the moon we can do better than this. We can develop the technology to extract it and burn it more safely but we choose not to because its all about the money first.

Originally Posted by Coltman (Post 8308280)

said he would not support the Keystone Pipeline. There goes 100,000 good paying jobs.

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 8308462)

So big oil DOES have something in common with wind and solar power...

Originally Posted by Donger (Post 8308525)

Good, I use as little as I can, too. The difference is that I'm not a huge hypocrite about it.

The FACT is that gasoline and diesel are the only presently-viable methods of fueling our vehicles. Unless and until we get another source, I'll take all and every source of that crude we can find, particularly from friendly sources.

I realize that you are all giddy about us killing ourselves through fossil fuel poisoning the air and water, but the fact is that we are not. Is there a remote possibility of this pipeline leaking and killing some fish? Yes, but the benefit it would bring FAR outweigh that minimal risk.

Originally Posted by penchief (Post 8308589)

This is the kind of talk we always hear when the industry wants their way. Before tragedy happens. And the tragedy always happens. Minimize the risks and exaggerate the benefits. And when evidence starts to rear its ugly head, resort to denial, denial, denial. That's the way the industry always does it. Follow suit ye minions.

The only reason our viable options are limited is because the status quo has done its best to stifle the alternatives and promote the its own interests. This is all about maintaining the status quo. If the subsidies that are given to the oil companies were given to research we'd already have a brighter future instead of being held captive by the oil and gas industry. Jimmy Carter had it right. Instead of mocking carter, Ronald Regan would have been wiser to exercise the same forsight. Instead, he was a shortsighted lackey to the oil industry. Well, to all of big business.

Originally Posted by Donger (Post 8308600)

Errr, what tragedy do you think is going to happen because of one new oil pipeline? Mass deaths or something?

Also, what alternative do you think have been stifled?

Originally Posted by penchief (Post 8308731)

The alternatives have all been discussed for decades but hardly pursued in earnest. A dedicated effort to do better would have yielded much more than it has thus far.

The environmental degradation of extracting and burninig fossil fuels is well documented. That's the reason there are environmental laws. However, the industry has successfully lobbied to be exempted from many of the major regulations that have served us well for decades. Which is leading to a slow attrition of the environment in my back yard. Ground water, air, and soil are all affected.

If we can't get off oil and gas at least we should make an honest effort to refine the process to make it less detrimental. But I get it. I think we CAN do better and should do better. While you are happy with the status quo.

Originally Posted by oldandslow (Post 8308226)

There isn't a rancher/farmer (all conservatives) in SD or NE that supports keystone. Lot's of reasons why.

Originally Posted by stevieray (Post 8308607)

IIRC, didn't the Ohio river literally catch on fire a liitle over a hundred years ago? ..due to toxins being dumped from the manufacturing industry? (specifically the auto industry?)

pretty sure that's not gonna happen again.


...think I'll go for a drive.

Originally Posted by Bwana (Post 8308748)

They like to pay more for gas, or do they like the fact that Canada is going to tell us to **** off and sell the oil to China? Oh and I call Bullshit.