Hall of Fame show (Roaf in, Shields out)
 

Anyone watching it? Got some Chiefs in the finals.

Are they announcing them now?

In a few, yes. Its just talking about them now.

Cool. I'm heading to the TV. I've got hopes for our two big guys.

Will Shields got cut. He didnt make the 10.

Willie Roaf still in there.


The ones to make it will be

Chris Carter
Willie Roaf
Bill Parcells
Charley Haley
Ed Debartalo

Thats what iam going with.

Next time champ.

LMAO This is the only Mayhem commercial I like.

No WR's? That's what Tim Brown tweeted.

Dawson
Doleman
Cortez ****in Kennedy
Curtis Martin
Willie Roaf

Those are your finalists.

Roaf is one of the five finalists.

Dawson, Doleman, Kennedy, Martin, and Roaf.

Getting in first ballot is hard, so I figured Shields wouldn't make it this year. But he's well positioned, particularly if Dawson and Roaf both go in.

Roaf is in!

All of the finalists are in. Congratulations, Willie Roaf!

Joe Horn is going to **** his bust!

Woohoo! Big Willie got in! Congrats to the greatest offensive lineman I've ever seen.

Willie Roaf was the most entertaining left tackle I've ever seen. He made me laugh often as he pulled out left to destroy some unfortunate defenders.

What the ****, Curtis Martin over Chris Carter? get the **** outta here.

Warren Moon has gained some weight.

And the voters must really hate Cris Carter. He's the most mysterious oversight among the finalists.

In all seriousness, I half-wonder if Carter got caught selling drugs in a locker room or something. There's no public reason that he wouldn't be in by now. He should've been in a few years ago.

Cortez Kennedy, thoughts?

I love it, but I grew up watching him every Sunday that the Seahawks weren't blacked out.

As good as he was, Charles Haley should be in there over him. Sometimes i wonder what the **** the Voters are thinking

What i fail to understand is why Tim Brown isnt in. Yet Curtis Martin obviously got in for his Longevity. Tim Brown (yeah i know he's a Raider) was the Curtis Martin of WR's. Shit just boggles my mind.

I think it's just that creepy eyebrow. It's frightening.

Honestly, other than Roaf this class doesn't wow me.

Jack Butler. Before my time, and I've never heard of him.

Dawson was very good, but Shields went to almost twice as many pro bowls (12 vs. 7). I've got no problem with him getting in, but I think he got in over Shields only because it's Shields' first year.

Doleman was very good, and I guess I don't give him as much credit as I should. He averaged 10 sacks per year for 15 years. I think Kevin Greene was better, both statistically and on the field, but as a DE instead of an OLB Doleman may get more credit. Meh, I guess I'm okay with him getting in, but it's not like he scared me as a player.

Kennedy surprises me. I thought he was pretty darn good at his peak, but I never viewed him as dominating. I'm not sure I'd pick him.

Curtis Martin is one of those picks who annoys me. Elect him to the Hall of Never Injured. He was slightly above average for a long time. Big deal.

Roaf was dominant, and clearly the best LT in the league for some time. When you saw him shut down pass rushers, and particularly when you saw him pull on a sweep, you knew you were seeing something special. I would've said that even if he had been a Saint his whole career and not a Chief. This guy really belongs in the Hall of Fame.

Chris Carter didn't get in because "he only catches touchdowns."

Roaf is easily the shining star of this class, and honestly, I didn't think Tez would make it. Like, ever. I agree RM, pretty lacklusterless class with the exception of Roaf.

Yeah, but that monobrow was the aerodynamic secret that helped him separate from defensive backs.

It'd be odd to be elected to the Hall of Fame in 2012 when you retired in 1959. 53 years after retirement, you get the call. That would have to be exciting.

Now that I think about it, Jack Butler retired before the Hall of Fame was even created. It started in 1963.

Nah. Dude wasn't a flashy or sexy back but he's #4 on the all-time rushing list behind Smith, Payton, and Sanders. If he had 4 more years in him, he could have owned #1 over Smith; who set that mark in 14 years.

He also averages 103 yards from scrimmage per game. Averages.... over a 10 year career. Name two other HOF backs who did that. Faulk? Nope. Dickerson? Nope. Thurman Thomas? Nope.

I agree. Curtis Martin was one of those guys that always dependable.

Did you hear Jack Butler? He played in the 50s, and he said that when he played, a player who went down could get back up and run as long as the play hadn't been blown dead. I've never heard that before.

I guess 99 percent of the time the whistle would be blown pretty much immediately, but it's still odd. Were there times when the ref didn't pay attention back in the 50s? Why would the whistle not be blown immediately?

I've seen footage of those old games. You kind of had to hold the guy down after you tackled him. If a defender collided with the ball carrier forcing him to stumble to the ground, he wasn't really down. He could get back up or crawl along the ground for extra yardage.

Congrats Wille Roaf.

You should have gone in last year, but the NFL is too stupid to properly respect your position and level of play, it's their fault not yours.

You were the greatest Left Tackle I've ever seen in my entire life.

Was the rule that you had to stop the guy from being able to make progress?

I remember reading in the very early days of football that a touchdown wasn't scored until the ball carrier literally touched the ball to the turf, which is why you see in some of the really old films a guy would cross the goal line and then bend at the waist and make the ball kiss the ground. Generally there was a gentleman's agreement to let the guy touch the ball down if he crossed the goal line, but occasionally if a guy bulled his way in there would be a wrestling match as the defender tried to keep the ball carrier from touching the ball. The rule was something like any defender who touched the guy once he was across the goal line could try to keep him from "touching it down". I don't remember if it was in college or the pros, but apparently there was one stalemate where one or two defenders literally kept a runner from touching the ball down for some enormous amount of time, and there was no rule that let the refs stop the play.

Football is a derivative of Rugby. Soccer and Rugby were once known as Association Football and Rugby Football, respectively. American football began as merely another form of football which resembled rugby football.

Touching the ball down past the "try line" is still a rule in rugby today.

Lake Dawson made the HOF????

Willie Roaf makes the HOF
 

Here is the link:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/75...all-fame-class


Another Chief in the Hall!

Probably the best O-Lineman ever to play the game with Shields coming in at top 5. Definitely part of the best O-line ever to take the field, IMO.
Can you all imagine what a true HOF running back like Sanders, Emmitt Smith, L.T. or even Marcus Allen could have done behind them? 2300 yards and 30+ TD's is not unthinkable. Preist was a good running back in his own right, just not like the others mentioned.
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Jim Brown comes to mind immediately.

Did Barry Sanders average more than 100 yards a game?

Just looked it up, and Barry Sanders avereged 99.8 ypg, but Curtis Martin only averaged 83.9.

Am happy for Roaf & he is deserving. Altho I would have been more thrilled if it was Shields getting in. Shields can get in next year.

The thought of Roaf makes me sad. I mean, I'm happy for him and all ... it just reminds me of how good our offense used to be.

FAX

From scrimmage not just rushing.

Curtis Martin's induction is a tribute to his logevity and durability, and the direct result of the fact that he played a skill position.

There's no way in hell he was better at his job than Will Shields was at his.

And the fact is, Chris Carter is far more deserving than Martin.

But then, the HoF voting process has always been a joke.

Agree with all of this.

I also find it annoying that the top X% of QBs get in, but with CBs or safeties you have to be the top (X/5)% or whatever. It should be the same percentage of players at every position.

One way or the other Phil's wrong.

Marshall Faulk averaged 108 yards a game from scrimmage for his career.

The Chiefs continue filling out their Hall of Fame starting lineup.

QB - Len Dawson, Joe Montana, Warren Moon
HB - Marcus Allen
FB - ?
WR - ?
TE - ? (Paging Tony Gonzalez...)
T - Willie Roaf
G - ? (Paging Will Shields and maybe old-timer Ed Budde)
C - Mike Webster
K - Jan Stenerud
P - ?
S - ? (Paging Johnny Robinson and Deron Cherry)
CB - Emmitt Thomas
OLB - Bobby Bell, Derrick Thomas
MLB - Willie Lanier
DE - ?
DT - Buck Buchanan

Coach - Hank Stram, Marv Levy
Owner - Lamar Hunt

Hell, Tim Brown is more Deservering. Dude was good even though he was a raider, he played A LONG time at a very high level.

Curtis getting in over some of these guys on the list is a ****ing shame.

Agreed. In some circles it is known as "The Burt Complex"

WR should have been filled 30 years ago.

And yes, Johnny Robinson and DeRon Cherry belong, absolutely.

I am still stunned at the fact Chris Carter can't get in. He must have pissed some people off as he is arguably the best player who keeps getting snubbed.

I agree.

But the most deserving that missed are Carter and Shields, which is where I was going with my post.

The AFC West Hall of Fame roster would look like this, including only the current teams and not the Seahawks/Buccaneers. (I'm weighting players based on their contributions to the AFC West, not the NFL. So for example, Jerry Rice isn't a big contributor to our division so he's ranked lower.)

We need a punter and a defensive tackle to fill out a starting lineup, assuming that Marcus Allen can fill a fullback role. It'd be nice to have a longer-term guard than Larry Little (paging Will Shields...)

It's interesting that we've never had a home-grown safety in our division, too.

QB - Len Dawson, Dan Fouts, Joe Montana, Warren Moon, Johnny Unitas, John Elway
RB - Marcus Allen, Floyd Little, Tony Dorsett, Eric Dickerson
WR - Lance Alworth, Fred Biletnikoff, Charlie Joiner, James Lofton, Jerry Rice
TE - Kellen Winslow, Shannon Sharpe, Dave Casper, John Mackey
T - Art Shell, Ron Mix, Willie Roaf, Gary Zimmerman, Bob Brown
G - Gene Upshaw, Larry Little
C - Jim Otto, Mike Webster
K - Jan Stenerud, George Blanda
P - ?
S - Ronnie Lott, Rod Woodson
CB - Willie Brown, Emmitt Thomas, Mike Haynes
OLB - Bobby Bell, Derrick Thomas, Ted Hendricks
MLB - Willie Lanier
DE - Howie Long, Fred Dean, Deacon Jones
DT - Buck Buchanan

Coach - Hank Stram, Sid Gillman, John Madden, Marv Levy
Owner - Lamar Hunt, Al Davis

Given that it's a skill position and thus overrepresented in the HoF, it's pretty telling that we don't have anyone at that position. It's been a weakness for the entire history of the franchise.

As much as I love Otis, and he was my favorite player as a child, I think the odds of him getting in are almost nil. With the inflation of receiving stats over the past 20 years, I think future voters will underestimate his contributions.

Haley and Kevin Greene should be in before him.

I copied and pasted this from he locked thread, because it needs to be discussed, IMO.

I disagree with your opinion here.

Priest Holmes had incredible patience and vision, so I don't think that the guys you mentioned would have been much better, if at all.

In fact, I would contend that Emmit Smith was a product of a line that was arguably as good or better than that Chiefs line, and the fact that Barry Sanders was, for all his ability, far from patient, so would argue that they would not have bennefitted from the line play.

The only one that I might concede, and only might concede is Marcus Allen.

He had that same vision and patience.

You're right. I slid a row too far and wasn't adding the right receiving YPG number.

That makes 4 backs averaging 100 YPG from scrimmage and Brown did it without the help of receptions. Smith, Martin, Brown, and Faulk.

Cris Carter had essentially 4-5 great seasons and the rest of his career he was either invisible in Philly or was a #2 WR to Randy Moss in Minnesota.

That isn't HOF caliber.

You don't even have a clue. Zero.

do any teams have the whole roster filled?
betting NFC East, or at least east coast teams

Just read the news this morning, Will Shields should have been a lock.

signed - Captain Obvious

Your ignorance is unmatched, and nearly unfathomable.

It's reassuring to know your stupidity encompasses all of football, and is not just limited to the CHiefs

The Bears have the most HoFers, though a lot of them are from the days of yore and played both ways, so it's hard to put them at a particular position. You could probably do stuff like move Red Grange to CB and get closer, but the bottom line is that they're short on WRs, safeties, and CBs. They also need an OLB, but there are probably 8 guys on the roster who could fill in there, most notably Bulldog Turner. And of course no punter, but I'll bet Luckman or Nagurski or someone also punted.

This is a good illustration of how badly defensive backs are discriminated against in the HoF.

RB - Red Grange, Bronko Nagurski, Walter Payton, Gale Sayers, George McAfee
QB - Paddy Driscoll, Bobby Layne, Sid Luckman
WR - Bill Hewitt
TE - Mike Ditka
T - Ed Healey, Link Lyman, Joe Stydahar
G - Dan Fortmann, Stan Jones, Walt Kiesling
C - Bulldog Turner, George Trafton
K - George Blanda (K & QB)
P - ?
S - ?
CB - ?
OLB - George Connor
MLB - Dick Butkus, Bill George, Mike Singletary
DE - Doug Atkins, Richard Dent
DT - Dan Hampton, George Musso, Alan Page

Owner - George Halas
GM - Jim Finks

You do know that Sammy Baugh was a punter as well as a QB, and I believe is still the recrod holder for longest punt in NFL history, right?

There's your punter.

EDIT:This fills your "All Teams" need, not Bears specific.

Yeah, he's definitely the punter on a general team, but even at age 95 I think he would beat the heck out of you for even thinking about putting him on a Bears team.

Just looked it up.

Baugh is no longer the record holder, but he did hold the record at one time.

He'd punt me to the curb?

Does he not have the season average record any more? He held it forever, but it seems like the last few years punters have suddenly added four or five yards to their averages.

If you played for more than one team during your career, do you still have to declare what team you're going into the hall with, or do they not do that anymore?

Some interesting HoF trivia.

Since the NFL draft began in 1936, only three draft years (through 1990) have NOT produced one or more Hall of Famers. Those three drafts are:

1943 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1943_NFL_Draft. Maybe it was a war thing and the talent pool was thin, but I've never heard of any of these guys, despite it being a 32-round draft. It's worth checking out the thread just to see the nicknames, though. They were really good at nicknames back then, and we've completely lost the art of nicknaming.

1958 - The draft class of 1957 produced 9 Hall of Famers, but 1958 got shut out, despite having 30 rounds. The most recognizable names are John David Crow (I actually thought he was a Hall of Famer, but no), Jerry Kramer, Alex Karras, Chuck Howley, Dan Currie, and Wayne Walker. Maybe Kramer will get in at some point.

1986 - Despite 12 rounds, no '86er has made it in yet. The best bets are probably Charles Haley, Pat Swilling, Leslie O'Neal, and John L. Williams.

1991 has not yet seen a HoFer, but still has time since some of those guys are just coming eligible or are not eligible. Brett Favre and Aeneas Williams are the only two serious candidates, but I suspect at least one of them will get in. After 1990, we still have lots of unfilled classes due to timing.

The draft year with the most HoFers is 1964, with 10 (and I had no idea that we drafted Roger Staubach):

1964

Bob Brown, T, Nebraska – 1st Round (2nd overall) by Philadelphia Eagles (Also drafted in 1st round – 1st overall – of the 1964 AFL Draft by Denver Broncos)

Carl Eller, DE, Minnesota – 1st Round (6th overall) by Minnesota Vikings (Also drafted in 1st round – 5th overall – of the 1964 AFL Draft by Buffalo Bills)

Charley Taylor, HB/SE, Arizona State - 1st Round (3rd overall) by Washington Redskins (Also drafted in 2nd round - 9th overall - of 1964 AFL Draft by the Houston Oilers.)

Paul Warfield, WR, Ohio State - 1st Round (11th overall) by Cleveland Browns (Also drafted in 4th round - 28th overall - of 1964 AFL Draft by the Buffalo Bills.)

Mel Renfro, DB, Oregon - 2nd Round (17th overall) by Dallas Cowboys (Also drafted in 10th round - 79th overall - of 1964 AFL Draft by the Oakland Raiders.)

Paul Krause, S, Iowa - 2nd Round (18th overall) by Washington Redskins (Also drafted in 12th round - 89th overall - of 1964 AFL Draft by the Denver Broncos.)

Dave Wilcox, LB, Boise Junior College, Oregon - 3rd Round (29th overall) by San Francisco 49ers (Also drafted in 6th round - 46th overall - of 1964 AFL Draft by Houston Oilers.)

Bob Hayes, WR, Florida A&M - 7th Round (88th overall) by Dallas Cowboys (Drafted as a future selection. Also drafted as a future selection in 14th round - 105th overall - of 1964 AFL Draft by the Denver Broncos.)

Leroy Kelly, RB, Morgan State - 8th Round (110th overall) by Cleveland Browns

Roger Staubach, QB, New Mexico Military, Navy - 10th Round (129th overall) by Dallas Cowboys (Drafted as a future selection. Also drafted as a future selection in 16th round - 122nd overall - of 1964 AFL Draft by the Kansas City Chiefs.)

They've never done that. I think the myth got started because most players only played for one team for the first 60 years of the league.

Favre will get in, and Williams deserves it as well.

:facepalm:

Roaf is the best OL i've seen play, and no one comes close...he was basically flawless...

i still remember a play against denver in arrowhead, about 30 yards out from the endzone...Roaf has his man handled, Green is set up in a deep pocket waiting on a route in the endzone, and Denver's MLB (i forget..mobley?) comes hauling ass up the middle with Green dead to rights...

Roaf, post-knee surgery, disengages from his man and somehow slides over about 3-4 yards to put a shoulder on the MLB, redirecting him so that he misses Green by a hair...Green throws a TD pass to Kennison (i think)...that Roaf even saw him, much less blocked him is amazing

and in the playoff game against the Colts, Roaf simply humiliated Dwight Freeney (a possible hall of famer)...Roaf kicked his ass on every single ****ing snap and made it look easy, like when you put your hand on a child's head as he is swinging wildly at air to 'fight' you...

Roaf was amazing. Perfect combo of strength and agility. One of the best trades the Chiefs ever made.

Hall couldn't handle the 2 big Willies at once.

Will Shields will eventually get into the Hall of Fame. The NFL Committee would be making a huge mistake by not allowing a 12 time Pro Bowler (Shields being the only Chief to enter the Pro Bowl every single year of his career) and arguably one of the 10 best offensive linemen ever into the HOF. Also, he was second behind Brett Favre for most consecutive career starts with 231 games started, including the playoffs, when he retired in 2006.

Remember that this was Shields' first year of eligibility for the Hall of Fame, so there's always next year. One of this year's recipients, Jack Butler, had been retired since 1961. Plus, Chiefs Hall of Famer Derrick Thomas had been dead nearly 9 years before he got inducted (got in during his 5th year of eligibility in 2009).

He's especially awesome in my mind because we got him after a nasty ACL tear when he was with New Orleans. I love Will Shields, dont get me wrong, but when Roaf missed a few games with that hamstring strain our offense simply crumbled. Trent Green was not the same QB without Willie protecting his blind side.

When he was out, it hurt and it hurt bad. The scary thing about Roaf is that as destructive as he was for us, he was playing a lot of games on a bad wheel. He was awesome, and he was a fucking warrior. Its a damn shame we didnt have the defense to help him get a ring.

Absolutely blows me away that Jerry Kramer is not in the HoF. The Old-Timers committee has to get this guy in. Dude played injured just about his whole career. He was an anchor on that Packer OL at Right Guard and also doubled as a PK over the years.