Salary negotiation tactics...suggestions
 

Hoping the CP'rs here can give me some suggestions on a recent course of events.

I recently accepted a new job offer with a new company. I am scheduled to start end of July and I am excited for it.

Today, the Director and his right hand man called me into his office to discuss why I turned in my resignation.
To make a long story short, they basically told me, "Tell us what it will take for you to stay."

I honestly expected something like this, but basically, these guys are opening up the checkbook. The idea is incredibility intriguing to me.

The reality is, I highly doubt I would stay. Its a long story, but i'll just say that.


As I started thinking about this, I was wondering, could I potentially use this as leverage to maybe negotiate a higher salary with my new company? If so, any suggestions on how to go about doing this? I am not thinking about asking for a crap ton more, but maybe just a little small bump or something would be nice.

I do have concerns though. If I talk to the other company and tell them what is going on, could that paint a negative picture on me?

I would hate NOT to at least try and negotiate a slightly higher salary and kick myself later for not trying.

I have until Monday.

THanks.

What, you can't just PM Bugeater?

I wouldn't play it that way. You agreed to a salary with the new company. Going back for more after you have a deal in place would be a crappy way to start. The better play is to give the old company the number they asked for. What would it take for you to pass on this new opportunity...no matter how high it is. If they say yes then you just earned a fat raise. If they say no there's another, more attractive company that wants you.

Lowball 'em.

If you can't imagine staying at your old job, trying to leverage it against your new one can be a gamble. Not that you can't do it, though.

But I agree with Chiefless, with the addition that if your old job agrees to your "What would it take to stay?" figure, be sure to take that figure to your new job and see what they think.

Yikes, man. Did you already agree to take the job or have you just been extended an offer with a deadline?

To be honest, if I had a guy agree to take the job with me and then come back right before he's supposed to start and trying to get a raise A) I wouldn't give it to him and B) It would be a red flag to me.

If you've only been offered the gig and asked for 48 hours to think it over, then getting a new figure from your former employer and taking it to the new employer and seeking a match would be kosher. But if you've already taken the job and now you're coming back looking for a sweetener from the company that's offered you a life raft from a job you were looking to leave, that's pretty poor form to me.

You're screwed either way you play this, dude. Unless you're in some highly specialized field with amazing skills this is not going to have a happy ending. However, with your existing job you may use some of your new-found leverage to not only increase your salary but also change some of the conditions which lead to your departure.

The only thing that is going to get you out of this situation unscathed is brutal honesty framed by some very diplomatic communications skills. Are you up for it? Because this could very easily end with you having zero jobs.

Either hold up your current employer for more money or leave on the terms you already negotiated with the new people.

I would leave well enough alone. You accepted a job at a certain salary. Don't start making demands before you even start. That's not a good first impression.

If you're truly unhappy at your former job, money shouldn't be a deciding factor anyway. I would politely decline and give them a proper exit interview, both as a courtesy to them and so you can tell them honestly what led to your departure.

If you knew this was going to happen you probably should've asked for time to think about the job offer and done this. Now you might be playing with fire.

Here's another option. Go to your new job. Work your ass off. Exceed all expectations. Make The Man a lot of money. Accept promotions, bonuses, and salary increases. That's even better leverage than your former employer is offering. There are companies who have been known to counter-offer to get you to stay and then dump you after the fact because employers like loyal employees. It's below-the-belt but not unheard of...

No... The negotiation only works if you're prepared to walk.

Basically tell the old company what it would take for you to stay and say you'll talk it over with your wife blah blah blah.

Then tell the new company that your old company kind of made you an offer you couldn't refuse but would take what ever compensation amount to be with the new company. They know it's a competitive market for the RIGHT employee and expect negotiations (sometimes even after the acceptance of the offer).

They'll think the old company valued you highly and they're getting a great employee. By you saying, you're just wanting something competitive to what they're offering puts you in a better picture than someone that's just in to for more $.

Last but not least... You already have a job in hand so you must be prepared to walk if the new company doesn't bump you or whatever.

I used this tactic around February and came away with a 10k raise with my old company as I was going to walk if they didn't raise the bar. They did.

This is all easier once you realize that corporations handle their affairs in a business like manner so why shouldn't you? You have to start looking at yourself as a corporation also. It's all business. There's no more loyalty in the workforce anymore. Dave Ramsey said the avg emp stays on the job an average of 4 years. Starting to think that's becoming the norm as of late.

Hope this helps.

Sounds good. But that does nothing but leave the possibilities open and a bunch of would've could've shoudl'ves and eventually disgruntledness. The way corps are taking advantage of employees now adays with all the "money is tight" excuses. I'd never go in with the idea of them rewarding me accordingly the way I feel I should be.

There's some truth there. I haven't worked for a corporation in more than a decade. But he hasn't given any info about either company either. Could be a smaller outfit, who knows?

A job he's leaving is "basically opening the checkbook" to keep him. He's nowhere near screwed. He'd have to take several wrong turns to get to screwed.

He doesn't want to be there. He's unhappy there. If he takes their money he'll have more disposable income but will probably continue being unhappy. If he doesn't he's going to be left wondering if he could have repressed his feelings in exchange for the extra coin. He's at a fork with no clear answer and nobody to blame but himself if he makes the wrong choice.

There shouldn't be a wrong choice. They're saying "Tell us what it will take for you to stay". So decide what that would entail. Maybe there is no answer. But if there is, figure it out and tell them.

Why would he agree to stay if he was still going to be unhappy? Eliminating the reasons for his unhappiness should be a key part of the "What It Will Take To Keep Me" proposal. Then for good measure, throw in ways to rectify future unhappiness.

And there's no reason he should be left wondering about anything. Either they'll agree to what he wants or they won't.

Asking for advice on a football message board blah blah blah... /obligatory

LMAO Dickhead.

But yeah, I just went through a similar situation, and it pretty much backfired on me. All I can say is make sure that you're REALLY unhappy at a job before you leave it, because the next one could be worse.

Oh, and just because another job pays better, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a better job.

I would go to the new job unless you actually love the job you have. These hardly ever work out. My only neogtiation ploy would be to ask them to pay you what they think you are worth. Once you have that number, you will know for sure what to do.

If you stay, be prepared to be counted on to step up in a bigger way and realize the company will always have some doubt about your loyalty.... if that matters.

I would work where the most opportunity for advancement exists...money is secondary if the amount is similar/close from one company to the other.

this

The company will look out for what's best for the company.

It's your job to do the same.

You're planning to leave anyway - be honest. Say "Things like X, Y, and Z are why I decided to look elsewhere. If I thought these problems could be fixed by talking about them I wouldn't have looked elsewhere.

It would take $X to make me stay considering the circumstances."

They will offer that (unlikely) or you'll leave for your new position like you'd planned.

No lose situation...

Pretty much this. Money shouldn't be a deciding factor unless both jobs equally suck.

I could be making close to 6 digits in KC or other big city markets, but I choose to keep a lower salary in the metropolis known as St. Joe because the company I work for is amazing. I love my managers and reporting structure, have a shit ton of vacation time, and work on flex hours or until I get my shit done. There is trust where I work and that is something that is hard to find.

I would NOT give it up for a bigger salary.

This.

You should never accept a counter offer. By your own admission you wouldn't be likely to stay long - I read a study that said most people who accept counter offers are gone again in about a year. So why not get your new career started with the new company now?

Personally, I don't feel it's very honest to interview and negotiate with a company for a new job just to take the offer letter back for a raise. Cities don't like being used as leverage for another city's sports stadium, fans dont like their team being used as leverage for a coach to get an extension, and it's not very professional to use a company as leverage. They have invested considerable time in their search and you'll put them back to square one.

Just my feeling, but if you are looking you should be serious about it. You decide to leave before you begin interviewing.

Not to mention this would probably be perceived as disloyalty and sully your reputation at the current job. Once you give your notice, the die is cast.

This.

And to add, I don't know what kind of job you're talking about and how big the market is but where I come from if you back out of the new job after giving a hand shake your name would pretty much be mud around there in the future.

"Never" is a pretty strong word. I accepted a counteroffer back in the 1980s to remain at the company that I'm currently employed at. I loved everything about the job except for the fact that I felt underpaid. Another company offered me a 30% raise, and I accepted the offer. Then my company matched the offer, and I decided to stay where I was.

You really have to weigh all factors into the equation. If you like your existing job, you like your boss, and you like the company overall, then accepting a counteroffer can turn out to be a good thing.

There's certain things you just don't do. How would you react if your new boss called you up and said that he's decided that he wants you to start at $5,000 less than what you previously agreed to, because he found somebody else willing to work for the lower salary?

But wait, what if he said that he would hate NOT to at least try to negotiate a slightly lower salary and then wind up kicking himself later for not trying? Would you just grin and say "That's OK, a guy's gotta try", or would you distrust him from that point on for reneging on an agreement?

It will not turn out well if you accept a job offer and then ask for more money before you even start work.

I think this one is situational. If your company values you and your contributions to the company, I would like to think that they would try to retain you, particularly if they are aware that you are making less money than you should be.

Unfortunately, that's not the way it's been (at least for me). To get any decent increases, I've had to switch companies.

Dude, you already agreed to a job with a different company, your negotiating with them is over if you ask me.

As an employer this is what I'd do if you agreed to take a position I was offering and then you came back to me wanting more pay because your former company now wants to keep you.

It would do something like this.

TheCoffeeGuy(TCG): Hey Hoover, it's TCG.

Hoover: What's up TCG, looking forward to you joining the family. What can I help you with?

TCG: Well, my current employer is trying to keep me from leaving. They told me that they will pay be current salary x 1.25 to keep me.

Hoover: What did you tell them?

TCG: Well, I haven't responded yet. I thought I better call you.

Hoover: I thought you were not happy there. Didn't feel appreciated. Wanted a change of scenery?

TCG: Yeah, that's all true, but..

Hoover: But you want the most money you can get?

TCG: Well...

Hoover: So being appreciated, being part of team, being respected means less to you than a few hundred bucks?

TCG: Well...

Hoover: So, lets say you stay there. They pay you your current salary x 1.25 percent. Then what? What happens in a year or two when you feel the same way that brought you to my door.

TCG: Gulp

Hoover: Here's a question you need to ask yourself. Do you want to stay at a company that will only give you a raise when you threaten to leave them, or do you want to work for a company that rewards hard work?

TCG: I want to be respected.

Hoover: Well I would say the choice is pretty clear, but it's yours to make. My offer still stands, but I negotiated with you in good faith, and not against your current employer. So you tell me right now, do you want the job I have offered you or not?

I agree with those who said there's no way you should talk to the new employer about it if you've already accepted an offer.

I've averaged 2 years at my last 4 jobs, and even though each job hop has served a more important purpose than a salary increase (non-IT to IT in a non-IT company to IT at a software company to mostly avoiding a layoff), it can be the most effective way to get a decent raise, especially in the past few years. And to Braniac's point, I can definitely see how accepting a counteroffer could be the best option if the only downside to your job is that you're underpaid.

Like you said, it's all business... you're in charge of getting the most out of your career just like the corporation wants to get the most out of their money (employee cost or otherwise).

You'd be the boss someone was leaving.

Shut up...

Whatever.

I don't play games. There are too many good people out there looking for work.

I agree. Unless his skillset is exceedingly rare, this isnt a "k, you two have a bidding war over me now" kind of climate.

Further, as a hiring manager this kind of nickle and dime behavior before even being employed makes me wonder if he fits the profile. It would cause you to wonder if he's going to leave you later over a couple thousand dollars.

In my field at my level the tech has leverage. I've offered many jobs to techs the last two years, they accepted and later backed out. Members of the current team have recieved job offers from other companies and they were bribed to stay.

I dont think this situation is normal. But, in my field at the upper levels, its the norm. We are contractors. Expendable but essential at the same time. It's defintly a screwy system.

If you are not happy and your employer thinks you are doing a good job, you have a history of verifiable success at other jobs, you can write your own ticket.

I dont know what field your in, but I'd say you sought another job because you wernt happy. If the other place says we can give you the things that will make you happy, cool. Just dont stray from the grass is always greener mantra.

Have to agree with qabban, mlyon, and hoover on this.

Your current company didn't do enough to keep you loyal in the first place and pulling out the checkbook now doesn't change that fact. This doesn't seem like the best company to work for and you shouldn't be too enticed by their "suddenly open" checkbook.

You said you already accepted at the other place. The time and place to have had the salary discussion with your current boss was after you had the offer from the other place. If money is the influencing factor then you should have been honest with them and said that you would like to stay with them only you feel that you aren't being paid on par with your level of contribution. If you are truly worth it they will probably try to give you a raise, if you aren't they'll say good luck at which point you can turn in your notice and accept the other position. If money isn't the influencing factor then an offer of more money from your current company shouldn't sway you from your decision to leave in pursuit of a better job/opportunities/work environment/etc.

Use this as a learning experience going forward. You now know that perhaps you are more valuable than you previously thought. Don't let the new company treat you the same way as the old one. You never know either, if your old company is truly serious about your value they'll probably keep trying to get you hired back anyway.

It's hilarious to hear all the "loyalty" talk in this thread. There's no such thing from employers these days, why should there be any from the other direction either?

Exactly.

Yea, that changes everything. The previous company stepping up when they realized you were leaving is a pretty normal and unless you completely hated it and absolutely wanted to move on it is worth sitting down and saying that you have this offer on the table that you are inclined to accept. If that changes nothing then fine all the best to you but if you would like to make an offer to keep me aboard I am listening.

But you borked that chance and you borked the moves you can make without looking like a snake when you rushed to accept the new job. Of course if you accepted it then it must be a good deal for you so all the best. You look like a shithead if you go to your new employer like this...talk about getting off on the wrong foot.

It's equally hilarious to hear the "bidding war! screw them!" talk when these same people will skewer professional athletes for identical salary tactics.

The bottom line is, you don't want to screw up BOTH offers. If you hate your job, money isn't going to change that. The more money I make, the more I realize this is true (at least for me).

I think everyone is on the same page for the most part that trying to leverage more money out of the new job is a terrible idea. If you can substantially raise your salary at the current employer, then fine. But you go to the new place and say, "Listen, my current outfit came back with an offer that is too good to pass up. I really appreciate the offer, and I wish you the best, but I simply can't turn down these numbers."

If they respond with "what is the offer? Can we match it?" then, fine. But that's THEIR prerogative, not yours. Not because you don't have a right, but just because it's not the wisest negotiating tactic, IMHO.

I was making my suggestions having been on both sides of this in the last couple of months.

It's true that corporations as an entity feel no loyalty to you, but the humans inside them who impact your career prospects do. I don't think any manager faults someone for leaving for a legitimately better job, but you have to expect someone who accepts a counter offer is a short timer and to prepare. Like the OP said, its probably not about the money, so money won't fix it long term. I would take it as a warning that we need to make sure we have someone else who projects to that position if its essential and not easy to fill. You also might assume that the person doesn't see themselves with your organization long term and so you'd probably be eyeing others for advancement tracks.

Everything is case by case of course. If your current employer will give a huge raise to retain you it might mean you are grossly underpaid, or it might just mean its cheaper over the next year or so to overpay you instead of hire and train a replacement.

Anyway, this is just a long way to say loyalty and commitment aren't exactly the same thing, and no, the CEO isn't loyal to you but your direct manager and their boss might be, and it will probably change your relationship with them permanently if they feel your commitment is not to the career path they are seeingfor you and that your goals dont align with their goals.

Like others have said you overplayed your hand and it sounds like actually showing up the first day at the job you accepted is the best choice to me... YMMV...

If I were the new employer I'd ask what the new number is. If its close and/or this is a uniquely qualified candidate I might see if I can offer something competitive, but I am probably going to expect him to start work at the terms he already agreed to by accepting.

He can always back out of the job offer and burn the bridge with my company if that is what's better for him, sometimes that makes sense. But slithering about trying to squeeze a few more bucks out of us when you already agreed to a salary is even more unprofessional.

ya I wouldn't do anything with the new company, that would def put a bad label on you from the start. First impressions at a new job are very important, how they view you at first will most likely be how they view you for the rest of the time you work there. But if there is something that could keep you at your new job and you would be happy with that, demand it! I don't know your situation, but if you don't want to work for the company you work for anymore chances are you should leave it.

Go forward with the new job and don't look back.

I decided not to try and negotiate more money with the new company.
However, I turned down my current company today and they came and offered me 35% more money, plus a few other things!!!

Jeebezus...I really am at a loss at what to do now. Stay or leave.

My advice is to renounce all earthly goods and accomplishments and live at one with nature, striving for nirvana and spiritual enlightenment in a prayerful monastic community.

Does money make you happy? For me, the answer is yes.

Sad but true. ROFL

Good move relative to the new company. If you've already accepted an offer, you should never go back after that and re-open negotiations. That's really bad form.

We had a job candidate a while back who seemed promising, but we had a few concerns, chief among them being that she had held a "recreational job" for several years instead of pursuing a career. We asked her if she was really planning to concentrate on her career because we didn't want to compete with the recreational job (ski instructor). She assured us that she was ready to get to work. We had also informed her of our salary range.

So we make her an offer, and all seems well. Then out of the blue she comes back and says that she wants a salary that's way out of our salary range, 50% or more higher than her job offer. It was completely unrealistic. And then she informs us that she plans to keep her ski instructor job in addition to working for us, which essentially told us that she just wanted a paycheck from us and that she wasn't committed to a career with us.

I wasn't on the hiring team for that one, but our hiring team huddled over it and told her, "Thanks but no thanks." She had been in a near dead heat with another candidate, so we were going to go with the other candidate. She came sputtering back and said, "I was just negotiating with you. I'm ready to accept your offer."

I don't know who gave her advice, but it was really, really bad advice. We hate job negotiations to start with and tell people that we make the best offer we can and don't negotiate. We're not bluffing. But then to have someone come back and make a completely unreasonable salary demand that was out of the range we'd told her, and then also inform us that we're going to be second on her list of job priorities was a fatal mistake, particularly since it wasn't what she'd promised us in the interview. Our team pulled the job offer and moved on.

I actually felt kind of bad for her, but geez, get a clue.

Speaking as someone who just went through the exact same situation a little over a month ago, my advice is to stay, unless one of the following applies:

A. You REALLY REALLY hate your current job. I don't mean that you think you hate it, you need to KNOW that you hate it, and there's no way the new job could possibly be worse.

B. There is a possibility that the extra money is a ploy to keep you around long enough for them to groom a replacement, and they're going to fire you once that replacement is ready.

Appreciate the input.
Basically, in a nutshell, I started to slowly look a few months ago. We had new management come into our company and I have had a uncomfortable feeling about how things were going. For example, I have paid very close attention to how they are treating my boss, and in all honestly, they are really keeping him in the dark. My boss and I are good friends and we have talked about it. When I submitted my two weeks, he came forward with some information and said he has been very uncomfortable since new management came in. Lots of changes and people being let go. My manager does not feel safe right now and even told me, he needs to start looking.

My fear is they are going to ditch my boss. I think its not a matter of if, but when.

Hopefully that sheds some light on the situation.

Yeah. I think you pretty much have to take the new job in that situation. Take the offer that was originally offered and hopefully it's greener pastures.

IMO, promotions and job transfers are the healthiest way to boost a salary. Unless of course you have a very unique talent.

Haha that is horrible.

When the economy is decent walk away at least once. In this shitty state of the current economy all that will get you is a well.........bye.

Obviously not.

That's what I was trying to explain... Their stance as anemployer is what have you done for me lately so yours as an employee should be also.

Hoover. If it was me... You can play all the pity party First 48 "be a man" type detective shit all you want. Bottom line is, I as the employee believes I'm worth a certain dollar amount and the negotiation is never closed until I get my fair market value (considering all things being equal). You operated in good faith, but it's all a chance since your grass may NOT be as green once I get over there.

So if we're talking a significant amount of coin here, you and your morals can KMA. Just saying. Find you another employee since it's so easy.

^. But like I said... you have to be prepared to walk and understand it's all business.

Dude... if you don't speak up now, you'll hate yourself for it?
The new company should always expect something like this if you're a great employee at your current employer.

?: Why do you not like your current job?

Was the new job a big raise? and how much over the new company are they offering?

You forgot the part where she said she wanted double our normal starting PTO rate if we wouldn't give her a raise so that she could take lots of time off in the winter to keep up the ski gig. :shake:

(In retrospect, I'm glad she mucked it all up. Our second choice has been great.)

Not if he has already accepted the job.

If he hasn't accepted the job all negotiations are on the table. You get the new job offer...you go to the current employer and tell them you have something lined up but will listen to an offer if they have interest in keeping you. You can take that info the new ones who have offered you the job.

To go back after accepting the job makes you look like a snake.

I think most employers do think employees are a dime a dozen. And for many job fields, they are. And why should your superiors give a damn if you leave? They're not the ones that have to pick up the slack, your peers have to do that. It's unfortunate but as long as there's people out there looking for jobs your employer doesn't have to place much value on you.

I couldn't possibly disagree more.

I always find it interesting that a lot of employees have this mentality but the fact is employees absolutely hate replacing people. You have to train them, you have to hope they end up being good employees.

The only time an employer could care less if you leave is if you suck ass at your job. That's it. Well or if you are asking for some unrealistic salary demands. Some things can't be done.

It does a company no good to continually have to replace people and train them etc....its just not good business and any half minded manager knows this. I don't care what job field it is.

I hate firing or replacing people, every time it happens the person has earned the firing though. The only thing worse than an open position is a worthless employee filling a slot a good person could be holding.

Yeah, I went through a fairly long process at the last few jobs I interviewed for, and a couple had training that lasted at least a 2-3 weeks... it can cost a lot of money to replace people, even if they're easy to find. For that reason, I've had to stay in a position or within a department for 18-24 months after being hired.

what happened with this?

I'm not even sure I heard about that part. :doh!:

Without reading the thread or even the OP...here are the two best ways to get a raise:

Go out and apply to every single business that does a similar thing as your specific job. Attend all interviews, even if you think the job won't pay as much as your current one with the intent of getting offered a job.

Once you get an offer for higher pay, go to your current employer and let them know you intend on bettering yourself by moving on to a higher paying position elsewhere, but that you really enjoy your current position. The only reason you are moving on is to make more money.

If you are valued at your current position and it wouldn't be cost effective to replace you, they will match whatever offer you were given.

2) go to school to learn a skilled trade and change professions.

Hope this helps.

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