Does anything less than a playoff appearance = Bye Bye Pioli?
 

This isn't a thread bashing Pioli it's simply to encourage discussion.

The Facts:

The Chiefs have finished in last place 2 out of the 3 seasons since Pioli took over.

The Chiefs have averaged 7 wins under the Pioli regime.

The 2009 draft= Fail

The Trade for Matt Cassel turns out it wasn't good.

Already fired one coach missing the playoffs this year with this squad would mean Crennel isn't that good of a coach.

So does anything less than a playoff appearance= failure? If so that would be 3 out of 4 years Pioli has failed. That gets you walking papers with most franchises.

Peyton Manning

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If Clark's sole goal is to make money, Pioli is his man and he will stay.

Somebody PM me PM`s address....BUMP!

I think the little ****er has a huge ego, which works great for Chiefs fans. When he took over he went out and signed the (perceived) best GM out there. He spent money on what was thought to be a really good QB (**** you clarK!) and has re-signed all of our key players except for Carr. I think the guy wants to win a SB as much as we want this team to win one

I see the Pioli defenders don't want to take on this subject of what very well could happen given Peyton Manning in the division.

Piloli is an average GM pre Cassell. ..that being said, his love affair with Cassell is setting this franchise back another 5-10 years and the ****er should burn at the stake because of it.

Should it? Yes.
Will it? No.

Beermenoonanbieberfever.

I think that he stays for at least 5 more years. He has done a good job building a team except for one position.



Too bad it's the most important position.

I think Clark will give him another opportunity with a different QB then go from there. After that happens, then Clark can make a better decision IMO.

It depends on the circumstance.

I'll say that if Cassel hasn't vastly improved by midseason (by game 6, we should know because it's a tough opening stretch) and he is still starting even though we are losing....a change should be seriously debated.

How about pointing the finger at the HUNT'S? Are they to not responsible for the 40 years of suck that has been KC football?

I know some people say this, but what exactly should the Hunts do differently?

We were technically last place last year, but it's not nearly the same magnitude of "last place" as the first time. We were as close as making one of two blocked field goals in that horrible game against the Raiders to winning the division for a second consecutive year.

Our team may not be a perennial contender yet, but you can see the progress. Our team was pretty awful when he came aboard, and talent and depth at every position has improved since he arrived (even at QB, arguably). He demonstrated this offseason that he's able to land top-flight free agents (Winston).

Obviously, he's made some mistakes (Cassel's massive contract being the one that stands out the most), but who would we hire when he's gone who would do better? Last year was almost undoubtedly a playoff year before the injuries (and almost was despite them). I expect the Chiefs to do better this year, but suppose they finish 10-6 and miss the playoffs? That's certainly possible, but it's not worth firing Pioli over. If we lay down a massive turd of a season (say, 4-12 or something), then there's more reason to fire him.

I dont know. I wish I had an answer. IMO Hunt's only truly care about $$$$$$$$$$
Putting a product on the field that competes is way down the list of Hunt priorities in IMHO.

IMO, this is Cassel's make or break year. Actually last year was, but he wiggled out of that somehow.


Pioli has put a pretty good roster together, but IMO some of his mess ups have been bigger than his successes. If he messes this up with Bowe and we miss the playoffs, that oculd be the dagger.

People seem to forget this too often.

I was just wondering.



Alot of people say "Blame the Hunts", which is entirely possible that it is their fault. However I don't know what owners can do in this situation to change.

How does this make ANY sense. Wins= season ticket holders, and more money. So I guess you meant if Clark wants to win, then Pioli is his man, and I have to agree. Even though I know that's not what you meant.
To answer the OP, I would have to say yes. If we do not make the POs, Pioli should at least be on the hot seat.
Man, if wasn't for one position, there really wouldn't be a reason for anyone to say shit. Pioli has done an awesome job at just about everything else, and i know he sees Cassel's short comings because he's done everything he would seemingly need to do put Cassel in position to succeed, and I believe he's gonna have a better season than 2010, no matter how bad we hate him.
Winston, and the running game are going to have more impact than people here realize.

/end of thread. Well stated.

Again. More wins = more money. SBs = big time bucks. Winning, and making are one in the same.
How someone could believe that clark doesn't want to win regardless of his motives is beyond me.

I don't think there has been anything to convict Pioli on that would call for a firing anytime soon. He's taken on a huge task imo and done fair with it. I would have parted ways with Cassel as a starter and let it be an open comp now during this whole off season/ota/tc, but he thinks Cassel can get them going again. Got to wait see on that.

Much as you guys don't want to admit it, Cassel has enough talent to at least go to the playoffs with this talented team, but a lot is riding on the regained performance of Jamaal Charles & Eric Berry, Moeaki too, to some degree. Point is, he did it once already with the Chiefs and I think we can agree this year's team should be a bit more talented than the 2010 team.

If Cassel can in fact keep that INT # down while striking once or twice a game, the Chiefs will have a winning season, I would expect. Sorry to say. I hate watching that baseball wind up of his, but if he gets the job done, it will be hard to criticize Pioli for sticking with him another season imo. Maybe Daboll can get these wideouts to get off the ball more quickly and that would help Cassel in the passing game.

I don't expect the Chiefs to do well, myself and I expect Cassel to choke out this season. RC will pull him by season's end. Late in the season after they lose WC/Playoff contention. Maybe game 12, something like that.

He wants to win. But does he want to spend the cash that it takes to put a winner on the field? 40 years of broken down hasbeen's

wont happen but should happen.

Look at Pioli's draft this year. All developmental guys.

He isn't going anywhere.

Well, there was a significant increase in season ticket after they simply made the playoffs a couple of years ago, and that's not incredibly difficult in today's NFL. I'm sure he wants them to be successful enough to sell out Arrowhead, avoid blackouts, etc... but, that doesn't mean he's passionate about winning a Super Bowl.

No matter what kinda season the Chiefs have... If that stadium is full every week Pioli & Cassell will be there until they retire

N A G G E R

Probably not, even though it probably should. Anything under 6-10 SHOULD get him fired, though.

And we're a pretty fickle bunch, so another 9-7/10-6 season and first round playoff exit should do it.

The stadium hasn't been anywhere near full on a regular basic since 2006.

yeah, well I dont' want to just go to the playoffs. I want to win a damn superbowl and Cassel will NEVER do that.

That's sad but the corporate dollars/renovation killed the Arrowhead experience.

Since he's hitched his wagon to Cassel he deserves to go down with him.

Renovation only killed the club level.

It's nice as hell up there, but you feel like you're anywhere but a pro football game.

Thats why I wish they would just put up tinted glass on that level. the majority of the people on that level aren't there to watch the game in the elements anyway.

Win a couple games in a row and everybody will be on Cassells sack like a fat kid on a jelly doughnut. Then the cycle resets again.

No I think that ship has sailed. I'm as easy going as it gets when it comes to letting the GM/Coach pick their players but even I'm at the point we need a different direction at QB.

The average fan maybe. Not CP fans.

They did that in Green Bay. TOTALLY ruins the experience. Might as well as stay home and watch on big screen.

As much as I hate Casshole, Im almost paying more attention to the rookies and 2nd year guys to evaluate Pioli. If they all become productive and/or stars, then we have the foundation of a dynasty. Assuming we get a good QB, of course, and I dont think Pioli is as ready to go down with Cassel as many here think.

Apparently you werent here 2 years ago.

Didn't all ticket prices go up after the renovations?

Anyway the MNF was cool but the other games felt different.


Oh and the PA announcer sucks the old one kicked ass.

The people buying tickets on those levels aren't there for the game anyway. Not now at least. They would rather be inside watching the game on TV. Makes no ****ing sense to me at all.

the club level is an absolute embarrassment now.

Nope

if we win a couple games in a row it will be because of the defense, the return of Berry and his impact or things like Charles and Hillis or Bowe, someone of actual talent putting the team on his back and making up for the awful hindrance at QB.

Nobody is going to get behind Cassel because he threw for 190 yards with 1 touchdown and 1 pick and won us a couple games in a row with those averages.

He will never go out there and throw a 70 percent game with a 400 yard average and 3 or 4 touchdowns to boot, in a hot streak where he single handed wins us games, like an Eli or Aaron Rodgers or Peyton, or Brees or any QB on a good team, can do.

If we have a bad season Pioli will just throw Crennel under the bus.

Pioli has taken on a rebuilding project that involves doing it the old fashioned way.

Through the draft.

That takes time.

The problem, aside from the most obvious, is that the foundation of that project was drafted by the previous regime.

We've already lost one piece of that foundation in Carr, and Bowe might well be the next piece.

I still contend that his 2010 draft was not nearly the great draft that others seem to believe it to be.

Dexter McCluster is just a guy, and Javier Arenas is a great 4th round pick, that we took in the second round.

I also still contend that this team would be further along if Bill KuHarich had been promoted to the GM spot, and Herman ****ing Edwards had been replaced with Ron Rivera, who I wanted the most at that time, or Jim Swartz.

Of course, that would not have happened, given Clark Hunt's affinity for Herman ****ing Edwards.

So at the end of the day, the man most responsible for all this shit is Hunt, as has been the case for the last 40 years.

Would you fire Pioli and lure a guy like Andy Reid who will be fired after this year?

:hail:

Hunt, the man that lost his balls after the Chiefs only superbowl win.

Andy Reid will never be fired

No.

I've always felt that Reid was overrated, and that Jimmy Johnson was the biggest reason for Reid's success.

My first choice today, as it was when Carl was fired, would be to lure Eric DeCosta to KC.

Which is amazing considering its phickle Philly phans.

I also hear "Fire Charlie Manuel and Fire Doug Collins" all the time too from the same Philly fans

It would take at least one playoff win with Cassel performing well. Don't hold your breath.

playoff - win - cassel - well

one of these does not belong.

IIRC, Milkman wanted DeCosta back in 2009.

Great memory. He posted that 14 minutes ago.

LMAO

Ask Clark

I hadn't really considered the possibility of this being Pioli's last season, but the more I think about it its harder for me to justify keeping him around if Crennel and the team fail this year.

Its like Groundhogs Day where Pioli continues to repeat his biggest mistake year after year, trotting out Matt Cassel and hoping this season will be different. Its maddening.

My question is, if Pioli gets rid of Cassel, then will you still hate him? If Romeo pulls Cassel after the bye week, and we draft a QB in the first round next year, someone like Tyler Bray or Logan Thomas, will you still hate Pioli?

Because he will have done what no Chiefs GM has done for thirty years.

AFC West Champs

the only things i dont like about the job Pioli's done in KC so far was trading for Cassel, Hiring Haley and bustin Bowes Balls.

if he gets rid of Cassel, i'll forgive him. :D

Ricky Stanzi

It would eliminate my biggest complaint about Pioli's tenure, but I'd continue to wonder why it took him three years to figure out something that the rest of us knew in the beginning, in regards to Cassel's (in)ability at quarterback.

I wonder how different our roster would be today with DeCosta and Rex Ryan running the show. Or DeCosta and Jim Schwartz.

NO.

Don't really like the idea of Rex Ryan as coach.

Overall, I like the approach that Pioli, and Martin Mayhew, have taken in building.

The difference is that Mayhew had less to start with, but he drafted Matt Stafford and hired Swartz, so the Lions, who were worse than the Chiefs at the time Pioli and Mayhew took over their respective teams, are well ahead of the Chiefs.

I remember when I said this back in 2010, and was laughed at.

I'm not saying One GM is better then the other but draft position is king when it comes to a rebuild like the Chiefs and Lions(They've been rebuilding forever.) have been going through. One or two spots toward the top of the draft can make a huge difference. We had no chance at Stafford or any other legit QB prospect where we've picked at the top of the draft.

Yeah, and Washington had no chance at RGIII from where they picked.

No more excuses.

Of course the Lions are in a better spot than we are. They were "lucky" enough to figure out/draft a franchise qb who happens to be a stud. Add that to the fact that they drafted top 5 in what seems like 10 drafts in a row.


Until we get a quarterback to lead the ship, we are worse off than teams that have one, no matter the rest of the roster.

Oh, and this board went out of their way to claim this asshole as the greatest GM in professional sports, so a playoff appearance in Year Four is letting him off the hook.

I think the Lions were well ahead of the Chiefs in 2009 and still slightly ahead now, which means Pioli is gaining on Mayhew.

It's not an excuse just reality.

Do you think we could have traded up for Stafford? I don't. :shrug: