The Myth of Glenn Dorsey
 

I continually hear via radio and occasionally here that Dorsey would be better in a 1-gap scheme and/or a 4-3 base front.

This is a myth. On our sub packages, our two DTs (Poe and Bailey) play a 3-tech and a shaded 2-tech or 1-tech. People complaining that Dorsey just needs to be turned loose and enabled to attack the passer need to realize that if Dorsey was able to do those things, he would have been starting in our sub-package since he was drafted.

The fact is, Dorsey simply hasn't and won't meet the expectations that he received when drafted in the top 5. That isn't due to scheme or philosophies, IMO. If he was good enough to rush the passer from the several DT techniques that most 4-3 teams run, he would be starting on our sub packages and been productive.

This isn't shocking news to most but I thought it might be thread worthy because of the bitching I continually hear about Dorsey and how we might receive a pick for trading him.

Nothing more then a Backup in the NFL.

****ing bust.

I'm pissed that I bought his jersey after we drafted him. He'll go into the box of shame alongside Larry Johnson's jersey.

Atlanta wanted him pretty bad going into his second season. We should have held on to Gonzalez and traded Dorsey (and yes, I realize Tony was the one that asked for the trade).

The thing that kills me about our D-line is how much we rotate them. We have three extremely high draft picks in Poe, Dorsey and Jackson, and (when healthy) those guys are only in for about 50% of the snaps. I understand rotating players in to keep players fresh, but come on, man. These guys were drafted to make a difference. We could get the same production from third-fourth-fifth round picks.

Why would anyone on the radio even mention this blah waste of a pick. He is so invisible I don't know how anyone ever thinks of him.

We should have lost 1 more game in 2007 and drafted Ryan ahead of Atlanta

Dorsey is still on the roster?

Same people who think Cassel "just needs more time".

Or traded up with StL. It's not like we used our 2009 1st on a productive player.

I've said this all along and dumbasses kept arguing and talking about his college years.

He has never been a Warren Sapp type. Ever. His pass rush is non existent and was never really there. People write the shit they do because they don't REALLY know how to watch football and just parrot the shit writers say.

Well that didn't take very long.

Who in the hell cares about Glen Dorsey right now?

He sux but Tyson Jackson is still more of a bust

This I'm not sure about. Draft spot, yes. In terms of hype and expectations, no.

The injuries were rather serious too...

Sure, but people werent laughing when the Chiefs picked him. If it wasnt the Chiefs he probably wouldve been gone the very next pick with the Jets (Gholston). When Jax got picked, other teams snickered.

I don't think anyone viewed him as a top 10 talent other than us.

We could have traded down 10 spots and still had the guy...

Exactly. Nobody expected Tyson to be productive. Most expected Dorsey to at the very least be an above average run-stopper fairly soon. It took him until 2010 and he has since regressed.

While I hink this is true, you also have to ask if he was coached full time on more 1 gap technique. It's like asking a rb to be a star receiver. I still think he could be an adequate one gapper.

maybe he needs energy drinks
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/pictu...&pictureid=981

Who?

That's untrue that his pass rush was non existent. He was great at collapsing he pocket at lsu. He just doesn't have closing speed. But he needs to learn technique. In the two gap he has been trained to read and react.

Inadequate comparison IMO. If Dorsey showed an ability to penetrate consistently, he would be getting be playing all 3 downs, the majority being in our 2-3-6 in which he would be playing a shaded 2/1-tech or the 3-tech.

If he had any ability to do that at all, he would have been starting in that spot full time and producing when Romeo got here.

He's no Brandon Siler.

One person did.

Glenn Dorsey - Warren Sapp
Tyson Jackson - Richard Seymour/Ty Warren
Dontari Poe - Haloti Ngata
Dexter McCluster - Wes Welker
Jon Baldwin - Vincent Jackson
Jeff Allen - Will Shields
Rodney Hudson - Casey Weigmann


Chiefs homers man four years of sippin the Pioli kool aid on crappy garbage talent

Exactly.

No, that's the Chiefs GM, man...

Or Darren Mickell...

We should take whatever anyone would give us for Dorsey. A 4th? 5th?

Bailey and Pitoitua are just as good.

I thought this thread was going to make an argument that he didn't actually exist.

If that were the case, I probably could have bought it.

I sorry. :(

Pioli didn't draft Dorsey.

And everyone loved Dorsey heading into the draft.

Some of us didn't. He was hurt.

Yeah I remember you wanted Gholston, right?

When a BB could pick better 1st round talent than your GM?

Total fail...

What does that have to do with Dorsey?

I don't recall anyone being too upset over the pick.

It was the obvious choice. Or Sedrick Ellis.

In hindsight, Joe Flacco.

yea, no.

a lot of people did not

Some wanted Gholston, who is even worse.

Who did you want?

No GM is 100% come the draft.

Neither has this BB. What's sad is the BB consensus would have been better in most cases than the player the GM drafted.

it doesnt matter who i wanted. you made the statement not me.

in Piolis last four years yes

I have seen even the dumbest posters on here hit on players on each draft that would have been 10x better than what Pioli has picked

i forget he's even on the team

Gholston? LMAO

now i am stupid. but i am not that stupid

Exactly, this place was elated, just like they were when DJ was drafted and Eric Berry. Tyson Jackson and Hali, not so much.

jon baldwin not so much

dontari poe not so much

and dexter mccluster... this place was hilarious when he was picked

Who did you want? Confess.

I really liked Dorsey. He's a bust. I'm over it.

I also liked Ellis.

If you say Flacco, you're lying.

We can rehash the selection of players all we want, but they are not the main problem right now.

This team currently has a horendous disease, that has infected all of them, and it is Romeo Crennel. In fact, I am confused how he was even successful as a DC.

I am not sure it is curable by just replacing Crennel and Pioli as far as it has gone.

I liked Baldwin. Difficult to evaluate with shitty QBs.

I don't know about Poe. It's not too late for him if we can get some good coaching in here.

Dex, I assumed he was going to be a Welker-type. They still don't know what to do with him. He hasn't excelled at either position. He means exactly squat to me at this point.

Romeo's defense is successful when the offense has sustained drives, eliminates the run entirely, and can get a pass rush from their interior rushers in their sub-package.

None of these things have happened except for in 2 games.

There is a really bad ass DE from LSU that will probably go in the top 10 this year. His name is Sam Montgomery. Will the next GM carry the torch?

Baldwin- could be an adequate #2 who can stretch the field with an above average QB. Struggles to gain separation and is limited to digs, slants, back shoulder, and 9 (fly) routes IMO. Because of that, you could potentially get him to be adequate at deep outs playing flanker or split-end if teams are giving him respect deep. However, it is unlikely IMO.

Poe- could still be an excellnt 1-gap NT and play the 3,2, and 1 tech in sub packages. Needs to learn how to play with a lower pad level, maintain good footwork, and keep his feet driving when executing a bull-rush from the interior. Needs a lot of work.

Dex- can be effective as a 5th receiving option or maybe a 3rd down back. Isn't fast and needs to bulk up significantly, IMO for him to truly be effective (without losing the little speed he has).

Overall, I don't have a problem with the Baldwin pick. He was supposed to open things up underneath and our receiving corps (Kevin Curtis) was abysmal. He has struggled and isn't getting a free pass from me. Poe, I understand the philosophy/reasoning behind it but I wouldn't have made that pick. Dexter shouldn't have been taken in the first 4 rounds IMO and takes reps from others that could be better options (2 TE sets, Breaston).

there are two DE/DT whatever guys at LSU that are projected really high

surely if Pioli is still here he takes one

Your opinion runs contrary to what pro scouts say about him. Our run defense is better with him in there no doubt about that.

That isn't what my OP says at all...

Can I throw my Sims jersey in there too?

You've got a front office who gives a big contract to a high school QB, won't sign worthwhile free agents, currently has a head coach / DC that the players aren't allowed to talk to during the game, and is basically an all around failure as an organization at the moment and you reason that bc Dorsey is taken out on sub packages by THIS team, he must not be good at rushing the passer?!?

This thread should be added to the epic fail thread...

He's not good at rushing the passer. If he was, Allen Bailey wouldn't have been drafted. You're a ****ing moron. Do you watch the Chiefs play football? Jesus ****ing Christ. ****ing people who have no sense at all or any kind of football knowledge whatsoever like this ****ing paramecium and BlackBob are allowed to stay on this board?

Why don't you actually watch Dorsey play in 2009, 2010, and the first half of last year. Watch carefully, and you can see him continually fail to get any kind of push up the pocket or show enough athleticism to stunt effectively. There is a reason he has come off the field in sub-packages. It is because he isn't good enough at rushing the passer.


**** me, I just got trolled didn't I? Oh, XanathBob you...

http://oi39.tinypic.com/20ff404.jpg

How sad is it that Dorsey's last season at LSU he had 7 sacks.

He has 4 in the last 4 seasons combined.

I think most people had Dorsey as one of the top 3 players in the draft the year he came out. He dropped because of team needs. He is not the first high pick to not live up to expectations. I have more of an issue with the drafting of Jackson. He should have never been selected as high as he did. That is an epic fail.

He had 7 sacks and 12.5 tackles for loss his senior year at LSU, in spite of routinely being double teamed. To say he has never had the ability to penetrate is ridiculous.

If he was any good, the coaches would leave him on the field.

Sincerely,
I'm not exactly sure why Charles only got 5 carries.

You're a dumbass and as such, feel the need to advertise that fact to the world. Dorsey is doing exactly what he is asked to do. Playing Madden doesn't help you realize that in the KC defense, the DL are responsible for all running plays - including the draw. In Dorsey's second year, the DC quite literally broke him out of his initial step, so he can perform their "punch & hold" technique ( typical base 3-4 ), all focused on guarding the run. And at stopping the run, he has been one of the best last year and the year before. But since you're a moron, you think pass rushing is his responsibility in this defense, because you simply don't know any better - and refuse to learn.

What you fail to see is your own idiocy in putting ANY reason into the staff of the worse organization in the NFL. The KC ownership is cheap. The KC GM sucks. The KC coaches suck. And yet you're basing player evaluations on their actions & how they determine who plays what, when & how?!? Without a frog fart bubble of a clue what the player is being told to do?!? That's the very definition of being a dumbass. Here's hoping you're sterile.

He can still be good we need a new DC. poe im not sure about

I'm pretty sure the Dorsey experiment is over in KC, and I'm not sure he'll ever amount to anything now.

That being said, he was a legit top 5 pick with legit ability to push the pocket. He may never have put up more than 5 sacks in a season, but he should have helped collapse the pocket so our ends could do their thing.

He was a strong, explosive college player, that only got 1 year in the NFL to do his thing.

And the suggestion that the way our current coaches use him is proof of anything is the most absurd thing I've ever heard.

Well, this is the point I"m trying to make here. A RB isn't going to be as good of a receiver as a receiver, even if he was a great receiver in high school. It's because all their training goes toward being a running back. Now, if you spent a full offseason coaching receiving technique, prepping his body to be a receiver, maybe he becomes better.

Dorsey spent one year learning more of a NT from dimwit Gunther Cunningham. He spent the next 4 years learning a read and react defense. He hasn't been coached on pass rush moves. I'm sure the majority of his technique he's been coached on is engage-and-shed, as opposed to swim moves and other moves meant to get into the backfield. And the read and react takes away his greatest strength, which is his explosion off the snap.

I'd like to see Dorsey in a 1-gap. Give him the full offseason to prep and learn and practice it. I don't expect him to rack up a ton of sacks. But in college, he was always in the backfield pushing the pocket in. People say he played 2-gap. But in college, he was asked to explode to the ball, not read and react as he does today.

I ran up and down my street yelling with glee when Dorsey fell to us. True story.

Bill Maas highlighted Poe tonight in MSN during his breakdowns and had nothing but good things to say about the kid

Bill Maas is a great source.

PFF teased that he had a good game, too. Their breakdown is coming or is already out, haven't checked.

edit - yep, Poe had a 0.5 in run defense with 5 stops.

Not bad.

That isn't at all what any of my posts say, you moron. Dorsey is a fine run-stopper. The post says that people are making Dorsey out to be some mythical pass-rusher who would excel in the 4-3 or the 1-gap. That isn't and wouldn't be the case. Did you even read the OP? XanathBob, please go away.

Fair enough. Personally, I wouldn't be against re-signing him to a reasonable 2/3 year contract and seeing if he could perform in a 1-gap. I would just be surprised if he did.

I watched him at LSU. I'm an LSU fan. DUH! It's not about numbers. It's about the fact that he was hard to handle for most college linemen, however his pass rushing skills were always limited. I mean for the love of God Vernon Gholston was a beast at OSU and a total bust as a pro.

Dorsey was NEVER worth a shit at pass rushing. To insinuate he was based on some numbers is what's ridiculous. Did you watch him play? **** no you didn't.

rep

Oh snap! LMAO

Pitoitua was a backup that the Chiefs obtain from FA playing better than Dorsey on his best day. Glenn Dorsey needs to be traded for whatever draft pick they can get.