Need some guitar playing advice...
 

I've been playing for almost 30 years now and have never really developed any "chops". Some of it is a lack of ambition...well, most of it is a lack of ambition...and some of it is just a natural lack of manual dexterity (I think).

I'm kind of stuck in a rut and I want to learn how to really play lead guitar - I'm not talking about Yngwie Malmsteen/Marty Friedman/Joe Satriani shit, but I would like to learn to play lead well enough that I could play some Dio songs or whatever.

So for somebody with my background and 3 decades worth of bad habits, what's the quickest way to do it? Private lessons? Books? Youtube?

Do something i never had the patience to do, learn to read tab.

I always just wanted to do my own thing and pick up riffs by ear, and that works to an extent, but if you REALLY want to learn to play lead as quick as possible, i'd say tab.

Dio (at least Holy Diver) can be played with power chords.



give it a go; same fingering possition just at different places on the neck. if you leaern the corresponding 'power chord' to your standard 1st position chords, you'll be surprised how quick you'll pick it up.

also , make sure the song isn't tuned down a 1/2 or full step or anything frfom your standard E tuning, other wise you'll drive yourself nuts (unless you plan on tuning your guitar down, which is easy)

I can't remember Holy Diver is tuned down.
ACDC is also great to play along with. primiarly your first position chords.

ROFL

I know how to play 5ths dude. I've been playing rhythm guitar for 3 decades.

I thought it was pretty obvious from my post that I'm wanting to learn how to SOLO.

I can read tab.

I can't play half of the stuff I can read though.

I'm wanting to improve speed and dexterity.

ROFL
Oh. lol

what kind of music do you like/listen to?

I don't think you're understanding.

I can play the rhythm parts of pretty much all of those songs.

I can't play the SOLO.

Dio, Sabbath, Queens of the Stone Age, Muse, Deep Purple, The Darkness

That's some of it.

Are you starting off reeeally slow as you learn the riffs? its just muscle memory, getting all of the tiny muscles in your fret hand to respond.

I would just go at a snails pace, very gradually trying to build your speed... once your able to keep time with a given song and go reasonably note for note, your hand should be dextrous enough to do just about anything.

Once you're able to play complicated riffs from tab, you'll know the scales and configurations to make up your own, more complex riffs.

Thats about the best i've got, as you know guitar is just SO much about taking the time, almost nothing will ever come easy... time and practice.

Zeppelin?
Ozzy (post Sabbath?)?

...trying to think of others that have good challenging solos, but not impossible etc.

I'm right there with you man. Can you at least wail through scales?

You're just like me, pretty damn good on rhythm but NOT a lead player, unless its just screams, noise that fits the song and basic blues stuff.

try to legatto your way through a scale. so 1 pick per string, then hammer on through the rest of the notes on that string, and do the same thing on the next string etc.; return with 1 pick strick an used pull offs.

a lot of speed comes with that technique. ie, not picking every single note etc.

learn Hot For Teacher intro. :)
even theh rythym has a cool legatto to it.

Flying in a Blue Dream by Satriani has some good challenges, but not impossible.

Shot in the Dark by Ozzy is another cool one/fun solo. challenging.

Bark at the Moon too.

Yeah, I know quite a few scales. But they all end up sounding like "Mary Had a Little Lamb" because I can't just rip through them like I want.

Yep. I can play some solos, like some stuff from AC/DC and Kiss and stuff. I just never learned how to really shred.

speed will come. slow equals smooth. smooth equals fast.
and, tryr the legatto technique too.

I can play the intro to Hot for Teacher, but then again, I'm not wanting to necessarily learn how to finger tap or anything like that.

Yeah, the problem is that I've been playing for 30 years. I've developed a lot of muscle memory, most of it bad.

I think I need professional 1-on-1 lessons.

they'll probbaly tell you some similar. Speed, truly comes with a shit ton of repetition. Even the non-Malmsteen/Lynch/Petrucci requires a lot of time committment. like probably 3 hours a day if you truly want to rip.

The professional could you get you some great theory that could probably help a bit with the speed, but it still comes down to repetition.

when I was in the navy, it was in the middle of nowhere, so all I did was practice since I didn't have a TV and was poor. I got to where I was getting really fast. could play alot of Satriani, EVH, Metallica, Zakk Wylde solos etc. and that was playing about 3-4 hours a night on the weekdays and probably 5 or more on a weekend.

my speed has dropped off significanly; at least in terms of being able to rip through that stuff like I used to .

My $.02

just as reference, I've been playing since 1992.

My problem is that I don't know what to REPEAT. I don't have the right connections between the right hand and left hand to know which patterns to work on and which ones will lead to a dead end. Does that make sense?

Sounds a lot like I am playing Guitar. I am terribly lazy with leads. 15 years ago a roommate and I started a band. I taught myself to play. Never one lesson. But a strong background in music percussion.

With no theory
background playing lead becomes problematic at best. I would learn different scales but after the first measure starting the lead, making the next few measures never clicked. Basically could never make the fingers do what i heard in my head. Soon after our first few gigs our bass player couldn't devote the time needed to practice 3 times a week and do a gig, so I took bass duties and put guitar up.

Other than putting the guitar away (I've taken up bass but actively play both now) sounds just like me.

Play along to some Pink Floyd? May as well mimic the best. =P

That's hows a buddy of mine got started and he is a solo machine. Can pretty much cover any Widespread Panic solo.

Grinding hard work to break through to the next level? I honestly don't like to think that there is a barrier that you can't bring with hard work, but I was never able to get past chords.

1 on 1 might be a good challenege and it couldn't hurt.

I get my tabs off of Ultimate Guitar. But I have the most fun with my Fender G-DEC. It has background tracks you can play along to.

I like Blues the most so I learned how to play pentatonic scales over any key. You just ad lib so it sounds great and it's easy.

sounds stupid.....but sometimes when I'm looking at tab, I see the solos / non chords as 'pictures'....

...probalby stupid, but maybe it 'll help.


time baby....you'll get it. :clap:

I can play "blues" like SRV and stuff like that. It's when it gets a bit faster that I get lost.

I guess what I want is to be able to play 80's style solos, like Warren DeMartini in "Round and Round", I want to learn that solo.

dude; if you have the technique to play SRV's rythym / circle chop and bridges etc, you can do Ratt, etc. It seriously is just a matter of repetition.

For me, I found my 'favorite' solo I wanted to learn in terms of guitar etc, and I Just ****ing killed it. playedd the **** out of it.
another thing too is, to listen to the song over and over and over and over. You might think you 'know it' etc, but until you start listening from a 'guitar' perspective, you haven't listened enough.

kill that shit bitch. :)

check out some Poison solos....sounds ghey, but they are fun to play. same with Skid Row.

Paging ZepSinger! Paging Lzen!

Paging ZepSinger! Paging Lzen!

This is exactly where I am with it, but am only 10 years in.
I can rock some shit.
Even play a little solo if it falls into the area of what I'm capable of (just learned how to play Don't cry from beginning to end) but I have come to the conclusion that I just don't have the Talent to Dimebag a guitar. Little Wing is not in the forecast. Although I have broken through many barriers before, I think everyone has their limitations. Not saying I can't get better, but knowing that I will never truly shred kind of kills my motivation.
Maybe I'm being a defeatist here, but when I play with kids who are 22 years old, who have been playing for 3 years who can literally rip the frets off of an ax, the writing becomes pretty clear.

Yeah, this is kind of tough for me too.

Of course, I have something to fall back on. I grab a mic and start playing some shit I wrote. Usually the only thing they say afterwards is "you wanna hit of this?"

:D

I never really considered myself a great soloist. I'm adequate at that, but not great. In my band, we had 2 guitarists. Sure, I played some leads, but he always played the really cool, intricate stuff. So, by the sounds of it I may be a little more advanced than you in that area but by no means am I an expert or anything.

When I was still early in my learning guitar, a friend showed me some theory stuff. Can't say I truly understood it all but I think I've always retained a bit of that. Between that, reading lesson books on occasion and/or lesson snippets out of guitar magazines, and learning cover songs via tabs over the years has allowed me to pick up a few things like different scales and patterns, etc. Plus, I think you gain an ear for what sounds good and what does not.

In the end, my recommendation would be to check around and find out who is really a really good instructor in your area and start going to lessons. Tell the instructor what you're looking to do and he/she should be able to get you started in the right direction. The reason I recommend this rather than doing what I did is that when I see those young guys who can shred I realize that they most likely took lessons from an instructor. Learning the correct way from the get go is a much more efficient way to get to where you want to go as opposed to what I did. I always wished I had taken lessons.

On a related note, I can't tell you how many times someone asked me to give someone lessons. Family and friends always seemed to think that just because I was a guitar player in a gigging band that I must be able to teach it, as well.

Besides the fact that because I was in a gigging band and also had a young family I really didn't have the time to give lessons, there was no way I was capable of teaching very much beyond just basic stuff. Perhaps if I had taken formal lessons with an instructor, I might have been capable of giving lessons properly myself someday.

Thanks man.

I was leaning towards taking lessons because I agree with you, these punk kids are learning by taking lessons.

I've got access to the Lick Library collection. Pretty good stuff in there.

Thanks for that. I haven't had good luck with DVD/video stuff. Hard for me to follow.

I've had a lot of the same. I have to really bury my head into some of them. Course it always helps to hang around superior players to help with trouble spots. I love having the books with "band tracks" to play over and over again. You may have tried this, but I discovered a lot of solo lessons on youtube with speed breakdowns that have really helped. (long as you can get passed your anger at the 14 yr old prodigy teaching you). Then I just break down to sections and repeat, repeat, repeat. I keep my guitar on my lap while watching TV and do the same (also helps as you tend to play melodies you hear on TV which helps you play what you hear in your head) The stuff my big hands cant keep up with I cheat with oh so clever hammers and pull offs. ----Now I need to go practice....

If you have big hands, you're lucky. I have small hands and it makes everything more difficult.

LOL, you don't play lead for the same reason I don't play lead. Neither of us want to spend 2 hours a day hammering through scales all over the fret board until we know them like the back of our hand. That's really what lead is all about in my mind.

I used to spend quite a bit of time at it but I never really got "better".

That's why I'm leaning towards lessons - so that when I do spend 2 hours a day on it, I'm learning the RIGHT things.

Like, I can go to the gym and work out and lose weight. But if I consult with a personal trainer and have them put together a routine for me, I'll lose weight twice as fast.

It seems like that would be the case, but somehow it doesnt work for me. I'm great on stretch, but my fingers get all tangled up. If only my les Paul hadnt been stolen! little extra room there!

I've tried that and probably should. Problem I have is I know just enough to get bored and impatient. I just need to shut up and connect the dots. I always let it slide because I can sing, but its just my laziness not doing the work.

I'm exactly the same way.

Im in negotiations with the wife to use the tax return to purchase a new guitar. Been a while and it always lights a fire under my a**! Hard to maintain that practice strategy for long financially!

Well, as a guy who lost 185lbs without a trainer or partner, I'd say when you want something bad enough you go figure out how to get it done. :D

This is a good reference. Can't figure out how to embed frm my iPad


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pSSeaE_B75U&feature=relmfu

You could have lost that weight twice as fast, though. ;)

Getting something new always helps.

I can tell a definite improvement in my playing the last couple of months.

I got a Zoom C5.1t controller with Zoom ZFX and I like it so much I want to play 1-2 hours a day.

Holy crap! I had a couple of those when I first started out playing guitar. I didn't realize that was still around these days.

Dayze you ever get that electronic drumkit?

before you seek professional help, start practicing permutations... have the guitar with you when you are watching tv, run the permutations up and down the neck, changing the patterns but stick with the alternate picking. Do this 20 minutes to half an hour 4 to 5 nights a week and within a month you will notice a drastic difference in your playing. Like you said it's muscle memory, you have your little lick library, ways your fingers move time after time... permutations will open up your library.

It's not learning scales, you have already learned those at some point in time. It's weird, after starting the permutations about a year ago, the scales are coming to me naturally, the fingers want to travel around the neck more(instead of hanging out in A Pentatonic at the 5th fret!).


pick up that unplugged electric and annoy the wife for a few minutes...

I think it is worth seeking profession human help in person the worst thing is you find out it doesn't work, which is a lesson in itself

I'm not saying don't do it, what I am saying is to get into shape before showing up to training camp... ;)

Not yet.
But I got a promotion yesterday that bumps me up 10k a yr. so it's coming very very soon.

Possibly by he end of march. It might even allow me to go up a step in terms of price aNd not be so constrained by cost etc

That's good advice. I used to do this back in the days when I was in gigging bands.

So what are "permutations" if they aren't scales?

Get a book that shows you the pentatonic minor scale. Learn that and you have learned 99% of all the scales used in blues, pop, and rock. Also, learn where all of your octaves are on the neck and your range will skyrocket.

I started messing with guitars as a kid in 1962. I played professionaly from 1972 - 1982 until my left ear got damaged by a virus. When I was doing it for a living I played 8 hours a day minimum. Now days I forgot 90% of all those scales and chords but still play sometimes.

I thought that too. I originally bought the series back in 82', six months later I was lead in a band that won 3 back to back battle of the bands.

A pinched nerve, (and the fact I always loved percussion) ended my guitar playing for the next 21years.

Once I regained control of my pinky and ring finger, I started playing around with my Les Paul again. I ordered this the 2nd time ....within 3 months, I was shredding again.

Try it. You wont be disappointed. especially where you can already play, you can order the "advanced" dvd's, and custom tune your "lessons"..

Yeah, Doug is still going strong!! Surprised me too a few years back.

I can concur with this. I've tried to take lessons from 2 different friends that play in bands. They would show me something slow once, then get into it themselves and just start whalin'. I even tried to tape them while they played. Didn't help.

I've gone thru dozens of online teachers. There are some good ones on youtube. The one I found easiest to understand is a guy named 'Guitar Sage'. But he likes to play accoustic.