Any HVAC experts want to weigh in on something...
My parents in DFW have an old system that it appears the evap/coils on the air handler are shot. It's an R22 system and they are trying to see if it is worth upgrading to r410 now. My question is... could they replace the evap/coils on the air handler and then also just replace the condenser on the heat pump and get away with a cheapish conversion to r410 or will they need to run new lines and replace the whole air handler and heat pump.
The other option is to just replace the evap/coils and stay R22 but that seems like a pretty big expense to not just go ahead and upgrade things. |
A good son that owns a highly popular website should probably buy his parents the Cadillac model as an anniversary present.
I know I would if in that position. |
I'd be real surprised if there was a way to cost effectively convert a condensing unit to 410.
If the current heat pump is less than 5 years old I'd probably lean towards just replacing the evap. If it's an older unit they may as well go ahead and bite the bullet for a 410 system. |
I think the lines and coils also have to be replaced.
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One of the biggest issues is the placement of the air handler.. I honestly have no clue how they got it installed in the first place. It is huge and the the access is not. |
I'm not a specialist but I can tell you that almost every Engineering Organization I ever met who designed "White Goods" like A.C., Water Heater, Washer, Dryer etc. got input from their Sales/Marketing people and they usually make sure to keep older technology incompatible with newer tech unless of course they have an in house customer service unit where they will do less work for more margin thus creating a larger income stream for themselves. I'm guessing you have built in incompatibility.
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I finally remembered I have a buddy who does this for a living in Austin who I have sent a message to. Hopefully he can set me straight. I have a sneaking feeling the costs will be about the same no matter on this. Interesting guy who has been doing this for years after retiring from profession bull riding. He even came back for a while and tried the "senior" circuit. |
Are we talking about a self-contained unit or a split system?
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Inside coils have the leak. |
Replace the whole thing, a lot of money upfront but it will save you money in the long run.
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This guy is great and he will provide second opinion if needed. http://www.bigbearair.com/
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It's something like this (but not exactly) http://www.goodmanmfg.com/Residentia...8/Default.aspx My concern is the vast amount of labor required to replace the entire unit(I don't even see how it was put in in the first place) as compared to the POSSIBILITY of replacing just some of the guts (evap/coils). Of course, it may just be cheaper to buy the whole unit, I have no clue. |
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the condensor you speak of changing is the outside unit, you don't convert a condensing unit from 22 to 410a. a/c or heat pump you change the unit, which also means you change the a-coil, which in this case prolly means the air handler. the line set can be left and flushed if its been brazed, if its been stay bright soldered best to change it too as 410 pressures are well higher than 22. on a hot day your liquid side could push toward 500psi; wouldn't trust stay bright. unfortunately you're prolly lookin at a sysyem change out.the only other option if you want a newer outside unit is to see about a dry 22 unit, then go a coil and ht pmp if it's available. that's my 2 cents worth anyways. |
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This is what you see in homes up here: http://www.comfortairtemp.net/wp-con...4/100_3866.jpg |
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Yeah I knew you couldn't "convert" the outside condenser in the heat pump I was just thinking that since they have to replace the a-coil in the air handler (I'm assuming the a-coil and evap are same or am I way off here) that they could go with an a-coil that handles r410 (pretty sure the new Goodman's have same fittings) and go ahead and replace the heat pump's condenser as well. Or would you have to replace the entire heat pump? I have no clue on the soldering, which obviously could be an issue. Just so you know, the air handler is a Goodman A49-15, I think it may be from around 2000. Not sure on the make/model of heat pump but I know it was manufactured in July 2004. |
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Yes, the A-coil is your evaporator (but it acts as a condenser when the heat pump is in heating mode)
The heat pump IS the outside condensing unit. It's just like an standard AC condensing unit, but it has a reversing valve and some other extra bullshit on it. |
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the heat pump is the outside unit, so when you say the entire heat pump it would be the outside unit. not sure if a 410a coil would fit in that air handler as they are usually a little bigger than a 22 coil. taller usually, which can be a headache. if you were to upgrade to 410 it would prolly be wise to match system and change inside and out, just have line set checked close. it possibly could be left if it would be a total pain to change. |
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Let me start over. I was thinking they could either A)replace a-coil as is and stay with R22 which is going to cost them a bunch to recharge. (something like $600 quoted to them just for recharge, I think) or B)replace a-coil with one for R410 and then of course they would have to replace the condenser in the heat pump outside to match. It sounds like you guys are saying that you don;t replace the condenser alone but the entire unit. Or of course C)replace the heat pump outside and the air handler inside which is going to be a massive job that I think will end up well over $6k or even $7k I want to recommend option B if it is at all feasible, since in my mind I was thinking they could get away with a job costing closer to $3k and have basically the same result as option C but without the brand new warranties. OK, let me know if my thinking is crazy talk. OH and I'm almost 100% certain Goodman makes an R410 a-coil that would fit this old air handler. |
i think the term you were looking for is compressor.
how do you know the leak is in the a-coil and not some other place? so you've got a 4ton unit with 3/8 & 7/8 lines. wholesale price from Johnstone Supply for an uncased coil for that is basically $415 and a new 410a copeland scroll compressor is $820. so much hassle to replace them though, then what if it doesn't work properly? better to have peace of mind for the next decade+ with a new system & warranty. |
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Yes they should upgrade because it will be cost prohibitive in the future if they do not. The drop in replacement for R-22 is more expensive than 410a. 410a refrigerant will only get cheaper. That replacement for the R-22 will continue to get more expensive because there is and will continue to be less and less in use. |
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A gas furnace will have the evap coil on the supply side of the heat exchanger but prior to the plenum box. |
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If it is a Goodman unit replace the whole thing. Goodman products are the absolute bottom of the barrel. |
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Welding is the same. And you don't have to replace the copper lines as long as they are proper sized. They make a flush to prepare the old existing copper lines for the new refrigerant. It is however highly recommended that you replace them to protect your investment.
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I personally don't know jack, I am going off what someone else told them. But apparently the a-coil is rusted out and leaking. They are getting quoted $2200 to replace the current air handler and recharge the system. Of course this would all still be r-22. That just seems to me to be fairly steep even considering the recharge to be $600 of that.. that means just replacing the air handler is costing $1600. They are getting quoted between $6 and $7k to pull it all out and replace with R410a system. The whole thing is a bit of a cluster**** to begin with. This system is just for the front of the house, basically 3 large rooms. The rest of the house is on a separate system. |
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I can't believe some of these prices I'm hearing for R22 recharges. Yeah, a tank is up to over $400 this year but it's not like you use an entire one each time you charge a system. I'm beginning to think some of these heating & air contractors are inflating the prices to try to get people to upgrade instead because they can make more money off of a new install.
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Their CORE dilemma (besides just trying to find the best most price effective solution) is that the air handler was likely installed during their last big kitchen remodel and now it doesn't appear there will be any way to replace the giant ass unit without some pretty big tearing up of things. In the end I think they are going to have to either A)just replace the a-coil and stick with R-22 for now and hope they are ready for another giant remodel when it comes time to replace everything or B)replace the a-coil and the heat pump outside to match to anew R410 system OR C) I just talked to my only buddy in Austin who is a big HVAC guy and he said given the screwed up situation what he would do is get a new slimmer air handler that would fit through the access panel and just cut the old on up in place to remove it and then upgrade the whole system to R410 |
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They might want to call the contractor that did the remodel and say a little something to them as well. They should have not put your folks in this situation. |
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i recently discovered this DIY product that seals minor leaks, i may give it a try soon. feedback on some pro boards seems pretty decent.
http://www.amazon.com/Cliplight-Supe.../dp/B000KF5ZN2 |
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