So who are the goats on our offensive line and how do we fix it?
 

And no, I don't mean the acronym for "Greatest Of All Time".

If you ask me, Branden Albert was the only one yesterday playing what Romeo would call good football. The difference in line play between when Albert was on the field and when Stephenson was filling in for him was night and day, and that's just at one position.

Fisher's problems have been noted by other people. He's still getting held upright in unbalanced stances half the time, which makes him pretty easy to push back into the pocket. Only thing I imagine we can do there is hope he figures shit out as the season goes on. Perhaps even look to next offseason as a time when he can really get this bullshit out of his system for good.

In the middle, though, I have no clue what the hell is up. All I know is yesterday the DTs for Dallas allowed no pocket formation of any kind. I can probably count on one hand the number of times Smith had more than 2 seconds to survey the field, step up, and make a throw. Our passing game flourished the most when we rolled him out, or he escaped the collapsed pocket and improvised. God, I never thought I'd hear myself say that about Alex Smith. Weird.

Hudson's hit or miss. I just get the feeling he's not the right type of center to play in the NFL. Never has been. Allen's just meh. Asamoah, like Hudson, is hit or miss, and the mistakes he makes sometimes are inexcusable for the expectations we placed on him as a future starter. He's been doing this for much longer than Hudson or Allen, so he should be a significant notch above them in play, but he's not.

So let's hear your theories. Some of you offensive line junkies (I'm looking at you, milkman) should feel free to diagnose exactly what's wrong with these guys instead of my casual observations of "Hudson sometimes doesn't do a very good job."

Also, with the problems we have going for us right now on the line, I'm beginning to think we need Albert longterm. We probably can't afford him, and we probably won't keep him, but we still need him. If an anchor like him drops out next year, our line's gonna be ****ed pretty hard.

Also, in before "DRAFT A GUARD IN THE 1ST ROUND"

Schwartz to RG, Asomoah to LG, (should happen but can't given 1.1 selection) Stephenson to RT.

I think it just needs time.

Fisher was getting owned on bull rush yesterday. Line coach needs to spend quality time with him and work on getting leverage right.

Yep. None of us expected a 2-0 start.

They really need to get their shit in order before they get Smith killed.

Im here. O lines take time to gel......

It will be fine.

I've never been high on Hudson. Asamoah is turning out to be a bust. I think our line is better with Schwartz in there.

Anyone remember Albert's second game in his career against Atlanta?

It takes some time.

Takes time, and each OL has been responsible for ****ing the sheep on any given breakdown.

That said, they need more quick-hitters up the A gaps instead of all these slow developing counters and traps... especially when it is clear that the front 7 is getting consistent penetration in the backfield. The quick-hitters would have helped neutralize the front 4 pinning their ears back on the pass rush.

3 years away. We need to draft 3 more first round lineman.

Albert - Chiefs fans favorite whipping boy - is sooo far and away our best OL it is worrying

he seems like the only one willing to lay it on the line...everyone else seems -gasp- soft...

That's the thing. Asamoah and Hudson have HAD time. They don't have to be Pro Bowlers, but they should be better than this.

I know you are being sarcastic but, you are probably right. Dorsey and Reid have both said it'll be three years before we are in the hunt and I doubt Albert, Hudson, and Allen will be starting for us in three years.

Asamoah has regressed.

I thought Fisher got blown up too many times. Bull rushed, and speed rushed. I hope he dramatically improves; as it is now, there's no way he could be a LT with any success. Hopefully it's just getting game-time experience etc. but man.....he got pushed around on numerous plays if I recall

Asamoah, yes. Hudson, not really.

I think they just need time together as a unit

Hudson is playing in like his 5th game.

Link?

Honestly, in 3 years our window is going to slam shut. I'm surprised they said that.

And it's not age that's the issue apart from guys like Hali, DJ, and Charles. It's the money. DJ, Flowers, and Hali's extensions will have run out, and we'll need to pay for Poe. And that's only assuming that we already extended Berry and Houston.

And of course, Fisher will be one year away from needing a new deal. Do we really want to go through this dumb**** cycle of being forced to piss away a 1st round draft pick on an OT every 5 years? Assuming he'll play well enough to the point of being a desirable player to keep around.

Good points and all, but this new offense is going to take time to install. Let's take a closer look right about december and we'll know a lot more about who is not a fit.

I'm guessing Hudson is the only player that isn't going to fit, simply because he's so small and doesn't use his size to get under the BFF's very well -- his technique needs developing. Reid likes the big men at OL, this may ultimately doom Hudson.

My biggest worry is that they're not Andy Reid's kind of offensive linemen, who aren't fit for the kind of blocking he wants to do.

That means they'll probably need to be replaced. Asamoah's a free agent in 2014 regardless, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if he's not around next year.

I want to believe this line just needs time to gel, but there is a deep desire to see the team draft a better center. Allen is also wearing thin with me. I still believe in Asamoah, Fisher and Albert. Although, I think SNR is right that Asamoah may not fit the profile and will get replaced most likely by not being resigned.

If they really believed that then they had no ****ing business pissing away two high draft picks for Alex Smith.

Youngest starting OL in the league and they're using a different blocking scheme than the last couple of seasons. Give it time.

I've always liked Albert and so glad he's still with the team. His problems have been business related not player, can't blame him for that mess too much really. Not going to start worrying about Fisher 2 games into his rookie season just yet, I mean come on.

I'm on wait and see now that there seems to be a competent coaching staff in place. Not worried just yet.

op can't nb4

The locker room video on KCChiefs.com showed Albert and Dorsey having a long embrace in the locker room after the game. Seems to me like they have a mutual respect. I am optimistic that he will sign long term. Reid loves his RTs as much as his LTs after all...

I think Fisher needs to hit the weight room hard and bulk up. Don't think his physical strength is good enough against most D lineman bull rushers.

The problem is they are converting to a system that requires a different kind of lineman than what Haley brought in. Haley wanted that undersized, athletic style of lineman which I never cared for. I want big bodies first and athletic agility second. Big guys don't get blown off the ball and after 3 quarters of them leaning on you, the running game opens up.

Figure it like this, Weigman was like small in the DV line. You had Roaf, Shields and Tate and Trent Green had all day to throw and Priest had running lanes the size of 435.

Fishers is plenty strong, needs to bend his knee's> He plays too high. As someone already mentioned this is a young line and a new system.

Rodney Hudson blows so bad, he makes others look like they suck too...

You mean True fans favorite whipping boy, most of the peeps on here love/have loved Albert. It's a good thing we didn't trade him.

Even though he's always hirt, i do like me some Branden Owbert.

I think we lack a touch of nastiness as well. I know Asamoah was supposed to have that but really...we need nastiness on the line. Not pie-eating, momma's boys that Pioli loved to draft.

Aside from Albert, who I do believe will sign long term, the Oline is whiffing pretty badly. Fisher should stay at RT yet rotate Stephenson more frequently. Asamoah has regressed and the job is his to lose with Shwartz waiting in the wings. Hudson probably won't be around next season unless things start to click for him. Hopefully, we'll see marked improvement by mid-season. Reid and Dorsey don't seem like " make do " types.

The real problem is Andy has finesse zone blockers running a power scheme.

Hudson is way too small to handle this offense. Boot him and try Asamoah out at center. You honestly can't get much worse. He's smart enough and big enough to do it. Start Schwartz at RG. The fisher problem will take care of itself. He will get better with time.

I am not worried about Fisher. For as much as we are bashing on him the guy didn't give up much. Especially when compared to the interior.

Asamoah = 6'4" 305
Schwartz = 6'6" 340

Kush?

Hudson is playing timid; he was way better before he broke his leg.

The biggest thing I see with Fischer is that he doesn't sit down in his pass protection good enough and gets pushed back with his shoulders leaning back too much. This is a technique issue and you see it with someone who isn't very comfortable with his back kick. It becomes very apparent with Fischer when he gets beat to the inside because he tries to lean forward a bit to try to compensate for getting his his shoulders worked over. It seems like a fixable technique issue with him. He'll have a bit of trouble before he gets his rhythm and some balance in his kick. The combination of bull rush and then a strong inside move gives me worries with him, but I expect he knows that's a huge weakness as well.

It's hilarious how people wanna give Hudson so much shit. The guy has started 4-5 freaking games, Jesus H. Christ, maybe give the kid some time?

People wanna hate on Hudson and then say, "Oh I still believe in Asamoah". Fisher, Hudson, Allen and Stephonson all deserve "more time" than Asamoah.

TTC!!!!

you're a moron

you are actually whining and bleeding so much it can't be contain in one thread?

6'4", 313. Probably not the answer but still has almost 10 more pounds than Asamoah and 15 more than Hudson.

struggled in preseason against 3rd stringers

I am all for replacing either Hudson or Asamoah with Schwartz. Hudson is getting knocked off the ball because he is too light and Asamoah isn't far behind that.

Schwartz is taller and heavier. That is why it seems our line plays better when he is in.

I don't think anybody's on the Asamoah train right now. Regardless of scheme change, for the amount of experience and talent he had coming out of college and his experience as a starter in the NFL, he should be MUCH better than what he is now.

If we don't see a significant increase in solid play from him this season, I have no desire to see him re-signed. Those cap dollars can go to someone far more worthy.

whatever it takes ... just didn't see anything impressive about Kush in preseason.

Stephenson didn't look as good either

i don't know whether is scheme,coaching or the player but Hudson doesn't seem to know who to block on blitzes.

Jeff Allen, Hudson and Asamoah.....3 of the lightest O-lineman on the team.

And you wonder why our shit gets pushed in from up the middle?

The previous scheme pulled and move the interior guys a lot. Which also lent itself to the stretch play that Charles was so successful in.

This scheme is not the same and lighter Oline don't fit as well. Our running game and stretch play isn't as good either.

that said ... it's not like they are small, all around 300lbs

I think what this offensive line needs is time.

The Chiefs of 2013 are completely starting over in nearly every facet, to training to scheme to coaching and personnel. Unlike the days before the current CBA when coaches were allowed two-a-days, multiple OTA's and other time in the building, these guys just haven't had time to become a cohesive unit.

If by the sixth game, the offensive line is still struggling, it would be time to make some moves: Hudson to left guard and Kush to center would be my early recommendation. Asamoah and Schwartz will likely battle for the right guard spot all (which will likely need an upgrade or change after the season).

If they continue struggle, there's probably not much that can be done until the 2014 offseason. I don't think Stephenson is a guard and the Chiefs are stuck with Fisher. There's no doubt that he'll need to improve throughout the season but I highly doubt they bench him.

It's technique and mental that's at issue, not weight.

tell us more about how greedy Bowe is, laz...

Roaf-320
Shields-315
Tait-312
Waters-320
Weigman-285


4 out the 5 of one of our best O-lines ever were all heavier than our line. In fact, with the exception of Weigman, our heaviest lineman now, Albert, is just a shade over the 2nd lightest we had then.

That's just what I mean. No bulk at the line. I even thought that with Haley, that he went too small. That's why our shit gets pushed in up the middle and always has for the last 4 years.

new coaches
new scheme
new group of Oline
young Oline

hopefully they just need time to learn and gel

I agree but weight never hurts. It's one thing to be technical. It's another when you can lay 320-340 pounds on a D-lineman for 4 quarters.

At OU Stephenson was better as a guard than tackle, or he at least was exposed a lot less as a guard.

Haley yelled at them to lose weight

he had Albert down to 298 at one point iirc

I know and it was stupid. That line DV had could move and I mean move. Yet they didn't sacrifice weight.

So it can be done. As Dane pointed out, it's more about technique but when you just have heavier guys that pays off later in games.

Got to give them time. More cohesion between the individual parts will improve the whole. If they still look like this in week 12, then we've got issues.

And I'll say what I've said all along: they need to re-sign Albert. Unless he keeps getting dinged up and helped off the field every week.

I will say they looked better at the end of the game yesterday.

These guys are not getting any bend in the knees, blocking to high and losing the leverage advantage.

Add the fact that the center is responsible for adjustments pre-snap, and Hudson is plaing in only his 4th or 5th game at center, college and pro, there's a ton of confusion.

Clear up some of that confusion, and some of the technical issues will improve.

It will take some time.