Transmission fluid type problems
 

So I started to go to class today and my car wouldn't shift. After further inspection it was bone dry and apparently I had a leak that I put off. Well I can't put it off any longer.

My questions are: It turns out that these things have transmission filters that need to be replaced every 30k miles. I didn't know that so needless to say it's due. I'm unable to do it myself so I need to take it to a mechanic. How much does that normally cost and could the lack of proper maintenance have caused the leak?

I appreciate the insight and will promptly die in an AIDS fire .

Mostly labor but it can be spendy. Lots of places will flush it out and the torque converter too. Had an estimate of 350 for my truck. But that's cheaper than having to have it rebuilt. Get jasonsauto or one of the board mechanics advice on this is your best bet

If you ran it bone dry you're ****ed.

If there's grit or dirt on the dipstick when you refil and check it you are probably looking at a rebuild

What type of vehicle? I will answer the other questions once we get some information. I will say this however, if you ran it dry, you really chooched yourself.

If it's not completely ****ed, most automatic transmissions should just be drained and refilled. Most don't need the filters changed.

Chooched?

It's an 04 sebring convertible. It did shift into reverse enough for me to park it so I don't know that it's bone dry, but it was pretty empty.

False, most automatic transmission have filters accessible to change. Although it is dependent on the type of transmission. Some imports (ie Honda) have internal filters, thusly a drain and refill is the only options.

Should be a A604 (some call them 41TE) type transmission. I would recommend dropping the pan, replacing the filter, fill with synthetic transmission fluid, add a Lucas conditioner to it, cross your fingers and hope you didn't run it to low.

A typical service on an A604 will typically run $175-$200 in our area.

I got quoted $175 for a flush, filter change, and such.

I wouldn't know the first thing about doing it myself.

Ya man.

DONT FLUSH IT. Who is recommending a flush Good Year, Firestone or NTB?

Watch out for the fly by night tranny guys & good luck

You mean like Munsoned?

Under 200$ sounds about right.

Pretty much this. If it is showing symptoms, you don't get do-overs with automatics.

Did the car not come with an owners manual? Did you not see big red puddles wherever your parked?

That statement is 100% correct.

It was leaking and I thought it was oil. Never paid too much attention to the transmission fluid except for the occasional check (and apparently wasn't doing that right).

I got my oil changed the other day and assumed that they checked it. Looking back now I can see it was an erroneous assumption.

lots of the places like walmart and the quick change places, oil change/tires, etc. They don't have certified mechanics on site to check your transmission and radiator.

That's why you're better off taking it to a dealer or full service shop in the future even if you pay more they look over things much better. Just for future reference

Fill it up. Hope it runs. Trade it today.

Automatics are unfriendly.

10 days ago I got my oil changed at WalMart. They state on their receipt of work order it was checked. I'm calling bullshit.

this guy is the one to talk to about transmission related issues

Apparently it wasn't bone dry. I put 2 quarts in it and it seems to be fine. That being said, I'm going to make an appointment to get it looked at/ fluid and filter changed.

Appreciate the help all.

walmart lube "techs" are ****ing idiots.


but you need to find out what is actually leaking, a service isn't going to fix any leak other than if its the pan.


just a guess but I would bet its a cooler hose.

im usually as cheap as walmart and kick the hell out of jiffy lube's normal pricing, and we check just about everything.

I'd trade it. If you got it low enough to not hold pressure, I wouldn't chance it. Who knows what's happened to your clutches and valves.

DON'T Flush the ****er unless you have a guy willing to rebuild it for free.

Almost all Transmissions have internal filters the size and shape of a small ipad. It's really not that difficult to do but sometimes when you do a flush instead of just adding fluid, the gears lose anything to really bite down on. It's complicated shit.

As far as cost is concerned, it'll run you 100 bucks or so unless she's shot.
If she is shot, we'll be able to pick on you for BLOWING A TRANNY.
NTTAWWT

I'd bring you my business if I lived in Mizzou! :thumb:

Go chiefs blew a tranny didn't he?

Yeah, I have trashed enough of them, all by abuse on my part. It is a sickening feeling when the car won't pull it's own weight, shifts erratically or starts freewheeling or locking up. It has been a while since I had anything that leaked, but it is a good idea to stick you finger in the spot on the driveway/floor and take a look. Smell it, rub it around on your finger to see what it is. Seriously. Usually, trans fluid is red.

If you were only down two quarts, you are probably ok, but it isn't good. Just guessing, but counting converter, that thing probably has around 9 quarts.

Stolen from the Epic Fail thread:

Too late porthole. :D

lmao had to look up porthole

Didn't know you could go sailing in Nebraksa

Know how I know you don't have a Jeep? :D

80% chance of either a cooler line or solenoid. Sauto is right on the money as always.

I didn't. Thread reopened.

you gotta check it when it's hot for a correct reading...do it when you are filling up your tank.

I did. On level ground. While shifting slowly through the gears. While pinching my nipples. Whilest eating a chili dog and taking ecstasy. (Enjoying the open thread)

no wonder you said bone dry.

ROFL

That's good stuff rightchere

in this case you can't 'just spit on it'

damn dipsticks

go chiefs check for the adams apple you dipstick!

So just get them to drain and fill and change filter?

They should also check the Fetzer valve...

Meh. My truck started showing symptoms 30,000 miles ago.

I'm on borrowed time, but I'm going to get as much as I can out of it.

You should probably go ahead and "power brake" it to burn them clutches in.

Automatic transmissions work off pressure. If the fluid is low enough your not going to have proper pressure to engage things internally, which means your slipping your clutch discs in the clutch pack. A transmission that's slipping the fluid will smell burned and start to become discolored from a bright red to a brownish red.

Your leak could be the front pump seal on the transmission. If it is you might get lucky with dumping in some Lucas Oil transmission fix to get that seal to swell back up. Another source of a leak is somebody over tightening the pan bolts smashing the gasket. Your only suppose to torque the pan bolts something like 10 inch pounds or something like that. If its the pan gasket that will be cured with a filter change.

Yes, this has been discussed ad nauseam by some, but long story short flushing will cause good debris to leave the transmission leading to slipping and other shifting issues.

Good post. However Lucas will not fix a front seal issue. We call Lucas liquid Gold at our shop and we have saved a lot of people money by using it. Lucas Stop Slip is a common remedy for internal seal issues. Very common in Jeeps to see a slipping symptom when the vehicle is cold, once the trans fluid heats up the seals expand due to the heat, Lucas helps revitalize those seals. Axle seals, front seals, pan gaskets, solenoid gaskets, pump seals, they will not be helped by adding Lucas. That being said, it wouldn't hurt anything putting it in there, but I just wanted to clear that up for someone who may get their hopes up.

***Also a note for any DIY'ers, if you are servicing the transmission on a vehicle do not use several types of pan gaskets ie a cork gasket and RTV, I have even seen people use a fiber pack gasket and a cork gasket with RTV in between them. On A604 transmissions we use Cork only. Some people will use RTV only, which is ok if done properly, but choose one or the other. Don't use fiber pack they are junk gaskets that seem to always leak IMO. We have a Wal-Mart down the road from us and they buy the filter kits from Advance Auto and it comes with a fiber pack, and I betcha we fix 2-3 of their services a week.

It's all ball bearings these days

Fetzer ball bearing? Man, you kids and your race cars.

"Good debris"? When you get the time I'd like to know what you mean by that.

Isn't it obvious? My transmission has gold in it! Pure Au. The good stuff. Now I just have to mine it. (or scoop through the leakage)

It's all so simple...

Yes, when businesses use aftermarket flushing machines like a T-Tech or a hot flush it actually cleans out the additives that are important in the transmission. Many times the flushing leaves solvents in the transmission also. I know Honda and Nissan do not want their transmissions flushed.


I will see if I can find an article on it that was released a while back.

I actually didn't answer the good debris part in my post. On older transmissions you will have debris in the transmission. All transmissions create debris, look on the magnet when you drop the pan or look on the drain plug. A lot of times debris will get into a clutch drum and embed into clutches, what this does is compensate for some wear on the clutches (very minimally I admit), when you flush it, I have seen clutches actually flake off when the debris is flushed out. Then after the flush is done, the vehicle has slipping symptoms.


******Let me preface this by saying, this is my opinion on flushes. We have a hot flush machine and a T-tech flush machine. I believe it does more negative than good. I actually found the article I was talking about, in this article Honda and Nissan per the manufacturer advise to not flush the transmission for possible cause of issues. GM actually warns against it also.

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/204...qv9u1zrujbsbst

I went through a week long Hyundai service advisor training in Chicago last year.

There was much debate about 'transmission flushes' like Wynns/BG etc.

The debate was pretty much service advisors in the session ALL selling flushes etc, and the fact that Hyundai does not want us too. The Hyundai service rep explained it like so - If there was any benefit from these flush and fill services with Wynns or BG or other additives, don't you think that that the R&D divisions at major car companies have checked into this? And if it REALLY helped wouldn't they recommend/sell such services as part of your scheduled maintenance?

Makes sense to me. Also, the gentleman is a training contractor of sorts that pretty much works for everyone, including GM, Ford, Nissan, and Honda, and every one of them does NOT want franchise dealerships to sell it, because of the stigma associated with it, and the fact it does **** all.

My late racing buddy, Rucker Massey was the owner of a top transmission shop, and built racing converters.
He taught me early on, just like you said, all you need is a good clean surface, a flat pan, and a cork gasket. Of course, you can't be an idiot and over tighten the pan bolts or you ruin the gasket.

Some of the older converters had a drain plug, so you could drain the fluid out of the converter when servicing the tranny. This is how they sell trans flushes now, as all of that old fluid is left in the converter by just changing the filter and fluid in the tranny.

I guess it makes sense that anytime you have metal parts that wear, you will have some debris, no matter how small. The question would just be if the material in yours is normal or abnormal.

Thanks El Jefe that makes senses.

I think most of the debris he’s talking about is coming from the clutch pack.
You’re a motorcycle guy, ever get into the clutch of your motorcycle? An automatic transmission has a clutch assembly that looks identical to the wet clutch assembly you’ll find in a motorcycle, same type of basket, drive and driven clutch plates.
From there my automatic transmission knowledge gets sketchy. I’ve been into enough standard transmissions I understand how they work but automatics are black magic to me.

No problem man! I don't know everything, but I know enough to try and help some people who don't.

Yeah, I'm going to need you to dumb this shit down considerably then.

Thanks for the correction and information. Never really ventured into the additives with transmissions. Most of my experience with transmissions comes from Racing and previously 15 years of Demolition Derbying where we abuse the crap out of them. Either the trans is completely roached or rebuilt for the new racing season to prevent the inevitable failure of a power glide.

Have you seen the new COPO Camaro's? 800 horsepower in a 2013 chasis and they use a 2 speed power glide, one great things about power glides is the abuse they can take. I agree wholeheartedly with you about going through the transmission before each race year (if you are a serious racer).

If you have a question, fire it.

at this point I do not, however, I think this weekend my lil brother is going to come down from Warrensburg and help me change it and check it out. He's mechanically inclined, I can turn a wrench solely out of necessity.

Make sure you have a 10mm socket.

Yes I have, those Power Glides very much a simple, but rugged design. I'm a huge Camaro fan. I have a 2013 2SS RS Victory Red Camaro I ordered last March.

Totally agree, if you're serious about racing you better have a top notch maintenance program with your equipment. Those Glides while near bullet proof have a life expectancy in a racing application and when your times up, its up. Seen plenty of guys chance it and then their car won't move come feature time late into a season when points are on the line.

For my wife's CR-V, Honda recommends doing a drain and fill on the tranny, run the car through the gears, do another drain and fill and then repeat the process one more time (three drain and fills in total). The theory is that most of the old fluid ends up getting flushed and the little bit that's left isn't a problem. It's a pain to do, and seems wasteful, but you don't have to do it very often. It's also easy to do at home, though the filler tube is a bit of a bitch to get to.

It must have a drain plug on the pan, correct?

Most cars don't, or didn't, and the way to drain the fluid is to remove the pan. That procedure would suck without a drain plug.

That sounds like a pretty good procedure actually, kind of a manual flush and a good compromise between the other two alternatives.

Yes. There is a drain plug on the pan, right in front of the car. It's even pretty easy to get to. There is no way to get to the filter, though.

When we owned our Toyota, I swore at it a lot about the bastards that made it must have small hands. :D

You'd have to have really small hands to get to the filter since it's inside the tranny and not serviceable. :D The small hands thing is true for the filler tube, though. It's kind of buried back and down behind the battery. I had to use a funnel with a long tube.

lol

Oh, right. That makes sense. I don't currently own anything with an automatic transmission though. :clap: http://forums.macresource.com/smileys/gears.gif

:rockon:

That is becoming increasingly difficult.

True that. I'd convert it to a standard in a minute.

three on the tree BAYBEE..fifty years later? still works.