Discussing the 1st rd: why Dee Ford was the best option
 

And here is why. Just rumblings from what we have heard.

Darqueze Dennard CB Michigan State-Nice product, but not better than what Dee Ford could bring.
Dennard is slow and he has short arms. He ran a 4.51 at the combine, which is not what we need. Take a look at Sean Smith and Brandon Flowers. They both ran in that 4.5 range and look at what happened to them. Remember Jacoby Ford owning Flowers a few years ago due to speed? Remember Eric Decker owning Flowers deep at Arrowhead? Remember DeAndre Hopkins owning Sean Smith at Arrowhead on that deep TD?

That's speed. It's not hard to see. Phillip Gaines has all the physical aspects, along with good production. Tackling is not a huge problem IMO. It can be taught, which he's in a great position to learn as the #4 CB for this year.
What can't be taught is....speed.

Marqise Lee WR USC-This guys hands have started to get bad. Real bad. 12% drop rate? I think people are already pissed off enough seeing Donnie Avery drop passes.
As far as pure playmaking ability, do you see Lee as a better playmaker than De'Anthony Thomas? I don't think so. I think they at the least very close, but Thomas has more speed and range due to ST's. He's way better there.

I can totally see why they passed.

Xavier Su'a-Filo G UCLA-Do we even need to talk about this? Was this not the one pick nobody wanted to see? He could have started day 1, which I admit would have been nice.
This could be a testament to how Reid feels about Rishaw Johnson. Why should we not trust Reid and Dorsey here? Schwartz was a great pickup, Parker was, Cooper was, Abdullah was, McGrath was. Did they not earn your trust for a guy like Rishaw Johnson, who coincidentally looked very good in SD?

I do like the Zach Fulton pick later. He's experienced and needs a little work, but in a year or two I feel he's starting over Jeff Allen.

Derek Carr QB Fresno State-I can't get over how pathetic this guys feet are and how awful he was when pressured. He gets scared. He panics. We're going to kick his ass with our pass rush. Did I mention he made a ton of WTF throws?
Alex Smith is the QB for the next 3 years at the very least.

As for Johnny Football,I would have loved him on this team. I'd take him over Dee Ford every day. But Alex Smith is their guy. If they really wanted him they would have got him. Moving up 1 pick would not have cost much.

Jason Verrett CB TCU-He's got playmaking ability, but he is definitely short which is a no-no for Dorsey.
Keep in mind that everybody is copying Seattle's draft strategy of bigger, longer corners except for 2 teams: the Chiefs and Packers. Why? Because they all came from Green Bay.

Jimmie Ward S NIU-The one guy I think we could have taken over Ford who was picked after us. Love what he does, but let's consider something here.

This pass rush is going to be elite next year IMO. That's going to help our DB's out drastically. Also, do we have Jimmie Ward already? Commings was a very good DB in college, but didn't have the footwork to play CB, which makes him excellent at Safety.
He's faster than Ward and just as physical with a long, big body frame (sound familiar?). I can see why they passed. They love what Commings can bring.

Bottomline:I think people love the energy and personality Dee Ford will bring. They like his confidence and swagger as well. This team needs that.

His first step is very "DT-esque". It's fast, just like Von Miller as well. He's got the production. He played fantastic ball against the best teams in the biggest moments.

This move makes so much sense in so many ways. I love Tamba. He's going to be one of my favorite Chiefs defenders of all-time, but let's look at reality. He's 31 this year. Next offseason we gain $9 million dollars by cutting him.
This is what teams like the Steelers do. They realize when their good players are nearing the end and they draft their replacements.

Tamba is going to start slowly declining in 2015 when he's 32. He might get some sacks, but you'll be able to tell. He definitely got tired the last half of the season.

This defense, and pass rush specifically, might be the best we've ever seen as fans next year. The overall amount of capable pass rushers could be better than the 90's, and that says a lot.
I can't wait to see what Dee Ford will do. I don't think 6 or 7 sacks is that big of a stretch considering we're going to play the nickel a ton of the time.

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Nope.

I'm pretty sure ****ing idiots count as nobody.

I'm gonna trust Andy and Dorsey over Sac here. Especially looking back on the complete ownage that was had on the Alex Smith vs Geno Smith footage from last season.

Yes, let's let an explosive pass rusher fall past us in the draft to pick up a guard. Makes perfect sense.

Just curious about those that are gleeful over the Dee Ford pick, did you watch Carl Bradford, Jeremiah Attaochu, Demarcus Lawrence, Marcus Smith, Chris Smith, Kyle Van Noy, Trevor Reilly, etc? Every last one of them were taken after KC's pick. Every one of them are equally adept pass rushers, but better run defenders.

Van Noy would have been the nearly perfect complement to DJ on the inside in the base 34, and that extra pass rusher in subs.

I won't lie, I was pretty high on Van Noy, I just didn't want Sac to know it. ;)

He would have been a perfect LB to take. I'm a fan of linebackers that can cover and do multiple things. Van Noy can. I'm not sure what this turd Ford can do aside from get effort sacks at the college level (that was the knock on Michael Sam...)

Attaochu and Lawrence maybe.

Everyone else, not even ****ing close.

Chris Smith? Gar-bahge.

I'll put a Dee Ford pic in my sig for all of next offseason if he has more sacks than any of Attaochu, Lawrence, Bradford, or Marcus Smith. Deal?

I am getting the feeling you are less than happy about the D. Ford pick? :huh:

Should take that deal SNR.

Absolutely. I probably won't remember this post next January if you're wrong, but nevertheless I'll accept the terms.

You're the first person I've encountered who believes the Eagles acquired the better pass rusher in Marcus Smith.

CP / Way smarter than Dorsey / Reid

If I was gonna make a top 10 before the draft of prospects I wanted and had a reasonable chance to be there when we pick, Dee Ford would have been somewhere between 5-7 on that list.

Dude has a few uncoachable traits in his game and psyche that this fan base is gonna love and if he can stay healthy, has a real chance at being elite at a position that is only second in order of importance in today's nfl to a franchise quarterback.

His first step, killer instinct, speed and athleticism make him worth the gamble.

He has Von Miller type upside IMO.

Dee Ford still has a lot of untapped potential and I'd guess they feel comfortable in Gary Gibbs ability to unlock it. His ceiling is higher than the guys crow listed.

The Chiefs are about the potential instead of a players floor.

That's exactly right.

Every pick was made based on the achievable ceiling of each guy. That shows a front office working hand in hand with the coaching staff.

Something we haven't had in....

As for why Dee Ford over Xavier Su'a-Filo or a Marqise Lee, they value pass-rushers more than receivers or interior linemen.

Marcus Smith - Very good chance he'll start over Connor Barwin at LOLB for Philly.

Demarcus Lawrence - Almost certain he'll start for the Cowboys at LDE.

Jeremiah Attaochu - Jarret Johnson is 32 and Dwight Freeney is 34, he's going to see plenty of snaps.

Carl Bradford - Has pro read strength, Nick Perry has been a disappointment, they'll give someone snaps along with Peppers opposite Clay Matthews in GB.

How are any of these guys in a lesser position to succeed than Dee Ford? And yes, I think they all have similar abilities.

1) Hali turns 31 this year and playing through an ankle injury last year might lead to problems going forward.

2) we are in nickel and dime sets more than half the time. Especially in our division where there are 2 big time passers and a rookie (Carr) or mistake probe vet (Shaub) that's gonna be playing catchup all year. There are lots of formations that can get Ford on the field arly on in his time in KC.

3) both of our OLBs lost time to injury last year...Ford will probably be the 2 at both spots.

Not a ****ing chance.

Von Miller destroyed dudes in college. ****ed guys up. (With the notable exception of Russell Okung, but that's another story for another time.)

Ford was invisible on the field with the exception of the 10.5 sacks his last season. 29 total tackles. That's pathetic. Teams gladly ran at him all the time.

6 sacks in 2012. 34 tackles.

The guy had a total of 93 tackles in his entire college career. Trevor Reilly had 100 tackles last season alone to go along with 9 sacks.

And Ford didn't really impact the ball when he got his sacks. Only three forced fumbles for his entire college career. (Compare to Tamba Hali, who is effectively a point forward effort sack guy, but he's got the uncanny skill of separating the ball from the QB when he gets there. And Hali is absolutely relentless all game long. A ****ing warrior. I'm not sure that Dee Ford has the frame to be able to go against NFL OT's for an entire game the way Hali can.)

He's a major project at this point as a NFL rush end. He should be a viable special teams player right from the start.

He's got skills (a very good first and second step) and he's got a good work ethic and determination from everything that's been said about him. But he's going to have to learn pass and run defense basics while having the starting point be the NFL level. That's a lot to ask.

Add Van Noy to that as well. (Also consider that he's very familiar with last years pick Ziggy Ansah. Should play right over his shoulder in Detroits 43 base.)

And Reilly should see a lot of snaps for the Jets seeing as Calvin Pace is 33 and was on a downward slide in terms of performance until his 10 sack 2013 season, which seems more like a last gasp then what would be a regularity from here on out.

Bradford's going to play inside for the Packers. Bank on it.

The Packers aren't giving up on Nick Perry. They really like him and believe he's just gotta stay healthy in order to be the player they need him to be.

They might shift Bradford outside occasionally, but his prime job is going to be blitzing from the inside and covering sweeps, offtackle runs, and passes out into the flat. He's not just going to be some useless Mike backer like Joe Mays or Akeem Jordan.

That's the kind of guy I really wanted us to draft, whether that was Kyle Van Noy or Carl Bradford. Somebody who can play both inside and out depending on the situation.

I wonder where they had Shazier on their big board.

ITT: Saccopoo still thinks NFL teams look at a stat line and form up their draft boards off of it. Players from the state of Utah are stacked at the top of boards.

29 tackles.

How does a guy who is supposedly as other worldly as Dee Ford get only 29 tackles?

Shit. Arkansas State DT Ryan Carrethers had 16 tackles in one game. From the NT spot.

What the **** did Dee Ford do to make sure he didn't tackle anybody at the college level with all of his Von Miller level talent? I mean seriously. There were three games this past season where he had 1 tackle. 1.

Trevor Reilly had two games where he had 14 tackles.

How the **** is Dee Ford going to make it in the NFL when he couldn't even tackle for shit at the college level?

How does a 6'3", 255 lbs. guy that runs a 4.53 40, benches 225 29 times get only 29 tackles for an entire season?

However, he sure does look good running without a shirt.

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/im...630&h=420&q=75

http://rosterwatch.com/news/wp-conte...rd-Pro-Day.jpg

Vernon Gholston anyone?

Oh, and Luke Kuechly says "hi" and wants you to know that he's going to shove his college stats up your ass.

(And speaking of Kuechly, remember when I said he'd be NFL Defensive POY for the 2013 season? And people laughed and said "No way." Just saying...)

ahaha you're ****ing reeruned if you think he compares to Vernon Gholston

Your insight is about as wonderful as your opinion that Gabe Jackson was a first round pick.

He's very similar to Gholston at the same level actually. Sack only rush end. Damn near the same player at the same position on a relatively equally talented team.

Gholston never did much in terms of impact plays other than the sack. Same as Ford.

About the same size, frame, both strong, similar measurables, etc. Both got drafted in the first round based more on their "upside" and physical capabilities versus production in college.

Yeah, I think that the Gholston comparison is totally valid.

Seek help

Your comparison is bad.

Vernon Gholston was a total body builder that put on football pads and happened to be faster than the big slow Big 10 linemen he went up against every week. The reality when he got to the next level was he was a total ****ing stiff.

Dee Ford is a better technician, isn't close to what Vernon was for size and moves around the football field a hell lot better. He also has a lot better instincts.

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LMAO

I remember when Mike Maslowski had 100 billion tackles for the team that one year.

He was such a great player

You forgot if the player received all-conference honors or not.

Oh yeah forgot that one LMAO

Mike Leach QB's are on their way to Canton

Dee Ford is gonna be a pain in the ass for opposing teams this year. He seems to have a hardworking attitude with the swagger and confidence to succeed.

I think this kid developed late in college and could just be getting started. You better believe that Tamba is gonna get this kid right.

Jest all you want, but this guy is a major project with some pretty big holes in his game as it stands.

At this point, he's much more Vernon Gholston than he is Derrick Thomas. And if you argue that, you don't know dick.

Dee Ford did not produce at the college level. His 10.5 sacks in 2013 were half of his 20.5 career total. (By comparison, Derrick Thomas had 27 sacks in a single season and 54 for his career.)

You guys keep on drinking the Dorsey Decision Lens Kool-Aid thinking that it was a great pick, but it was a reach.

Personally, I think that not getting a top flight lineman or wide receiver in this draft was a big mistake.

I'm not saying Dee Ford is a great pick. I'm just saying that you don't know shit.

AJ Jenkins and Rishaw Johnson. That's who they're rolling with.

And before you immediately write them off, here's some names to keep in mind.

Geoff Schwartz
Ron Parker
Marcus Cooper
Sean McGrath
Husain Abdullah

All those guys were not perceived as being anywhere near as good as they were for us when Dorsey brought them in. Think on that.

I agree with you on WR, but not OLine, we did well in the 6th round and the OLine will still hinge on Fisher, not whatever rookies we were going to draft in the 1st or 3rd round.

And coming back to the big time WR that I also think we'll regret not taking, Marqise Lee aint it. Don't think any of them @23 after Cooks was gone were worth it. I still wish we'd traded back, but stayin put, Ford was the pick and i'm lookin forward to seeing him in your profile.

Sac are you seriously trying to compare Ford and Gholston?

Gholston was a workout warrior that looked like Tarzan played like Jane. He didn't have the "want to" to make it in The NFL.

Ford has a unique first step, showed up in big games and big moments, had the best performance of any player in the NC game, and has a great work ethic and attitude to succeed.

Hey might be similar in some ways physically but not on the field or their intangibles.

I'm on board with this. If I watched films and produced draft opinions they'd be uneducated or as we locally call it very sac like. There fore I don't.

to be fair, Derrick Thomas had holes in his game too. From what I remember, he was also poor against the run and in coverage.

Let's try not to compare rookies to Hall of Fame players before they even play a single snap in the NFL.

Dennard should have been the #1. The OP is wrong calling him slow. Ran faster than Sherman and Haden two of the best CBs in the league.

Dennard will be a good player in the NFL for a long time but I see why they went with Ford. By taking Ford @ 23 the CHIEFS knew they couldn't get a comparable player in the third round. They knew that there was a much better chance to get a good CB in the third which they did in Gaines.

Ford + Gaines > Dennard + 3rd round OLB.

This is really ****ing stupid.

If someone comes on here and says that Dee Ford is the next DT, then that is pushing it.

But people are saying that he has some attributes that remind them of DT.

There is nothing weong with that.

His first and second steps are comparable. Maybe not equal, but Ford has a lethal "get off".

So where is the production?

Any dude with "lethal" get off, combined with that size and strength, should be absolutely destroying dudes. The guy averaged 5 sacks a year for his college career and 25 tackles per season. That absolutely sucks balls for a guy with "lethal get off."

I seriously want to know why he didn't produce at a higher level on a national championship caliber team.

I don't give a flying **** about his "get off" on ESPN's Sports Science bit.

I do care about why he didn't really do jack shit at the college level.

That's my main problem with Ford too, his lack of production despite really good measurables.

dontari, poe



guy was a worthless piece of shit in a shitty conference in college...one year later he is the best young nt in the league

i have no clue how that happens, but it did

You must not have watched. He was a beast last year. Watch the Georgia game. Watch the Texas A&M game. Watch the national championship. Watch the senior bowl.hell he was getting pressure on QB's in games like LSU and MU as well.

The guy had a sack in 5 straight games last year. I swear do people watch this guy? He was one of the most productive defenders in the entire draft last year.

But KC wasn't forced to go OLB in round 3. They could have filled an immediate need at WR or OG.

Ford shows tons of promise as a pass rusher, but he was pretty much invisible in run defense and has had a lot of nagging injuries. You have to hope he can hold up against the increased speed and power of the NFL.

He had 29 total tackles last season.

That is absolutely horrible.

Only 3 forced fumbles for his entire career.

That is horrible.

Only three passes defensed for his entire college career.

That is horrible.

Only 27.5 tackles for loss for his college career. That includes his 20.5 sacks. That means he only made 7.5 tfl beyond his sacks. That is horrible.

The guy had absolutely no impact other than his sacks, which maxed out at 10.5 in the 2013 season.

How does that relate to productive?

Apparently I'm missing something here.

It's pretty obvious that Dee Ford was not a finished product last year and he kept getting better and better as time went on.
You can't really ask for much from him in terms of coverage bc he rarely did that at Auburn.
Looking at his tape, his run stopping problems seem to be bc he is over pursuing. This would be coachable and I bet that's the thought behind this.
He still needs to get stronger, but a year in an nfl weight training program should help.

Dorsey is picking players based on potential and he's starting them off slow. He did it with Fisher and now he's doing it with Ford. Let's see what happens.

sacc's dream draft would like this:

1. Mazlowski
2. Mazlowski
3. Mazlowski
4. Mazlowski
5. Mazlowski
6. Mazlowski
7. Mazlowski



over-achieving schlub who puts up meaningless numbers and isn't in any way a game changer...aka a guard

I am in total agreement with Sac on Ford. I see nothing but a huge neon sign flashing BUST BUST BUST.... it could be BUSTS BUSTS BUSTS and I'm half drunk in front of a strip club...

In any event, yes, guys like Dee Ford turn it on in the pros and become very good players, such as Dontari Poe. Those stories are rare. There are far more Vernon Gholstons of the world. I'm very worried KC wasted a 1st round pick given what I seen from the kid in college, as I was with Poe. I do hope they strike lightning in a bottle twice, but the odds are forever not in their favor.. ,

I dont think Ford is a high risk of being a flat out bust, but I do think that he is a risk of never being anything more than a situational pass rusher. That being said, he can have a long and productive career in such a limited role.

Robert Mathis is a guy with a similar build. He had 20 combined tackles and 3.5 sacks in his rookie yr as a situational pass rusher. In his second yr he had 10.5 sacks and 36 combined tackles. That being said, Mathis forced a lot of fumbles.

The good thing is that Dee Ford is far from a finished product and is open to coaching. Here is an example:

I have read stories of Houston praising Hali for teaching him so much about being a pro. Already Hali has taken Dee Ford under his wing (who is already playing piano with Hali's daughter). Ford will have every opportunity to maximize his natural talents with the help of Hali and Houston. Thats the most we can ask for at this point.

I don't see how this is like Poe? Ford made huge impacts in several games against the best competition in the country.
He seems very willing to learn and has great confidence. He doesn't appear to be lazy to me.

Just checking in here...

Are we at RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH or at the ACCEPTANCE & HOPE stage?

As a very slight defense of Mazlowski, once he went down our defense folded like a cheap suit. Before then it was just horrid. Sac however I have no defense for. However I was just in Utah and I can see why he would be insane.

I think he ends up being Elvis Dumervil.

Is that bad?

It's great, if it works out. He's been a boom to every defense he's played on.

There just aren't a lot of Dumervils in the NFL, because their bodytype and skillset don't translate to the NFL very well. It's harder for somebody who look and play like Dumervil to succeed than, say, someone who looks and plays like Houston.

But I think Ford very much can be Dumervil, with all his strengths and weaknesses. If he lands, he's a perfect player for that Hali role in our D. If he lands.

Ford fits the mold of every draft pick Dorsey wants.

He gets high potential unfinished products whose negatives are very fixable. Fisher, Kelce, Ford and Gaines all have massive potential, but they have minor problems such as strength and form (aka technique, tackling, overpursing and missing the run game).

He's relying on the coaching staff to make these picks explode. It's kinda like Poe, except these guys have all had way more production to their name.

All the potential in the world doesn't matter if they're in the cold tub like last years draft class.

I agree, but this goes hand in hand with some of these guys. For example, Fisher putting muscle on his frame should help protect him from injury.

306 lbs is too small for a guy that's 6'7". I think him moving that to 320-325 with more muscle on his frame will make a big difference with his struggles from last year.

We'll see though

It's more about leverage for fisher. All the muscle he can add won't make a difference if he's always on his heels.

It's also a little concerning when every pick you make you think "get him in our program and put weight in him".

Naturally, these guys are all going to put muscle in being in a strength program professionally though so I don't think it's really a huge deal.

I like that we are picking big fast hyper athletic guys instead of Boy Scouts who were team captains.

Size does matter to a degree, but you can't teach athleticism ad instincts

Dumerville is far more squatty than Dee Ford.
Dumerville is 5'11'', and 260lbs.

Dee Ford 6'2.1''
Hali 6'3''
khalil mack 6'2.5''
robert mathis 6'2''
Junior Galette 6'2''
Olivier Vernon 6'2''
charles johnson 6'2''
Jerry Hughes 6'2''
shaun phillips 6'3''
Suggs 6'3''
Ahmad Brooks 6'3''
Trent Cole 6'3''
Jason Worilds 6'2''
Clay Mathews 6'3''
Lavonte David 6'1''

Yeah, I see Ford as much more of a Mathis/Freeney-type of a pass rusher.

Difference between Ford and Mathis though is that Mathis has 34 1/4" arms while Ford's are only 32 7/8" long. Ford basically has the minimum length that you need to be good.

Dude...he threw Fisher to the wolves. Started him out at RT from day one. He will have the luxury of starting out Ford slow as there are two studs incumbents at both OLB spots. He'll probably see some snaps here and there, but his lion's share of work will most likely be on special teams - at least to start.

At least to me, that a steep price to pay for a first round pick considering the glaring, obvious holes at WR, OL and S.

Ford will play in the wide 9 a lot and in the nickel, which we played the entire playoff game. I see them doing that against pure passing teams, including the 2 in our division.

I bet Ford and Gaines get a lot of PT this year.

So we should have reached on who? Jimmie Ward was realistically the only option at 23 and they weren't taking him because they view Commings and Abdullah as competent starters.

I love the pick.

I haven't decided one way or the other yet.