What The Niners did with the Picks from the AS trade
 

From MMQB
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/05/12/the-20...with-a-kiss/3/

Now that we see the final product of what the Niners gave away and received in the Alex Smith trade from 14 months ago, we can judge one thing about San Francisco GM Trent Baalke: He is calculating, he is fast, and he knows how to set up his team for the future.

The result, first, of the 2013 trade of Smith to Kansas City for a pair of second-round draft picks. The two second-round picks, or their tributaries, were traded a total of five times over the past two drafts, and here’s how it shook out after this year’s draft.

Surrendered
QB Alex Smith

Acquired*
DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013)
LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013)
LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014)
RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014)
WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder)

* Lemonier was acquired in part with a tributary pick stemming from the Smith trade, and Johnson was acquired from Buffalo on Friday for a fourth-round conditional pick in 2015. That’s included here because San Francisco obtained a fourth-round pick in 2015 from Denver for the second-round pick that originally belonged to Kansas City—so the two picks, arguably, will end up canceling each other out.
Now the story. In the span of 22 minutes Friday, Baalke consummated three trades. One: He traded the 56th pick in the second round (the second Kansas City second-rounder) to Denver for the 63rdand 171st this year, and the Broncos’ fourth-round pick next year. Two: Baalke traded the 63rd and 171stpicks just acquired from Denver to Miami for the 57th pick in the draft; Baalke got the player he would have picked at 56, Carlos Hyde, at 57 … while adding the fourth-rounder next year that replaced the pick used to get Stevie Johnson. Three: He traded his own second-round pick, 61st overall, to Jacksonville for the 70th and 150th picks.

Baalke explained that he and COO Paraag Marathe work the phone and line up prospective trades, and it was hectic because there were a couple of other teams calling in that 22-minute span trying to get one or more of the Niners’ picks at 56 and 61. “That span you talked about was a little bit of a grind,” Baalke said late Saturday night. “A lot of action, a lot of things to consider. Paraag’s the best in the business at lining things up, and then we make the decision. After we made the trade with Denver, I thought we might be able to get Carlos at 61, but then we called [Miami] at 57 and figured we could use what we got from Denver in this year’s draft and keep next year’s pick and move up to make sure we got him. And it allowed us basically to get our four back, which we used to trade for Stevie.”

This isn’t a case of San Francisco fleecing Denver. But it is an example of Baalke doing the smart thing, and waiting till a needy team is either on the clock or frothing after a certain player. That was Denver with wide receiver Cody Latimer, who the Broncos project to replace Eric Decker right away. If he works out the way John Elway thinks, surrendering the four next year will be nothing.

Time will tell if Baalke made the haul worth it. The five pieces the Smith deal yielded:

Carradine will get on the field healthy for the first time as a Niner this month. He missed all of last season with an ACL tear. He’ll be the third man in the 3-4 defensive end rotation with the aging Justin Smith and Ray McDonald, and move inside on some four-lineman snaps. He’s being groomed to start in the 3-4 scheme when Smith or McDonald are gone.
Lemonierplayed 284 snaps, mostly subbing for the idle Aldon Smith last year, and will be in the outside-linebacker rotation with Michael Wilhoite and Nick Moody, competing for time.
Borlandis an accomplished college player, and produced an amazing 27 turnovers in his Wisconsin career. But he’s only 5-11 ½, and he could be a first-down player only (against the run). “It’ll be interesting to see if his game translates to the NFL,” said defensive coordinator Vic Fangio. However, with NaVorro Bowman expect to be sidelined until at least November rehabbing a sere knee injury, there’s a spot on the Niners’ D at inside ‘backer waiting to be won, and Borland will get a solid crack at it. “I’ve heard people talk about his size, and his short arms,” said Baalke. “But he’s a guy with instincts. All those short did somehow was rack up over 400 tackles in the Big Ten.”
Hyde should be able to make the move from the Big 10 to the NFL much easier. He’s the heir to Frank Gore, a 230-pound bruiser with enough moves to be an every-down back. That is, if Gore ever slows down.
Johnson is still only 27, but he had a down year last year with the Bills. He’s not the speedster the Niners sought this offseason to help de-pressurize Anquan Boldin and Michael Crabtree, but he should be a good third receiver and an adequate piece to San Francisco’s underachieving receiver group.
I asked Baalke about his feelings on the trade now that the chips are known. “Mixed emotions,’’ he said. “I have so much respect for Alex Smith and his family, and great regard for him as a player. He’s the epitome of a good man and teammate and a good player. I know the Kansas City Chiefs staff, and they are thrilled to have him. We’ll see how it works out for us. It’s still early.”

I like how they explained in the paragraph about when it got hectic when the phones were ringing and all the trades were going down but they were still thinking about the player they wanted to get out of all of this. Carlos Hyde. It's just like the thread I started before the draft about Jimmy Johnson. He wasn't a BPA guy or a need guy he just went after the guy he wanted! Mostly by making trades. And here is Baalke doing the same damn thing and winning.
I can't stress this enough, I Focking hate the way Dorsey just sits by and waits and plays the damn board for BPA. Hate it!

Agreed. It's annoying as **** watching this sit with their dicks tucked in their asses while other teams are able to wheel and deal and acquire a buttload of picks.

That should be a humbling article for a lot of Chiefs homers, because it illustrates the differences between a scout and a general manager.

I think somebody needs to make sure John Dorsey sees this article.

There's no reason why he can't be capable of doing that kind of stuff if he makes the effort. Even if he is more of a scout now than an all around general manager he can develop into a better gm if he's not too stubborn. At least, I hope so.

Happens most every year regardless of who the GM is...

They need to hire someone who is as good as Paraag.

Baalke is a former scout. What he has been able to do is take a commodity and flip it for picks. He has been able to use those picks to acquire extra picks and he has hit on a few of those picks with great players.

It's easy to be the best poker player in the room when you have the best cards. His situation is very similar to Jimmy Johnson who was able to make a huge trade involving a commodity on his team and then hit on a few of those picks. Those situations don't come along very often and when they aren't available the GM usually starts to look average again. Case in point, Jimmy Johnson in Miami. He didn't have a Herschel Walker to trade and he looked rather pedestrian in his time there.

The 49ers were already established before they traded any "commodity." And Alex is not a commodity.

Before the Alex Smith trade the 49ers lone trade of a player, if I'm not mistaken, was ****ing Taylor Mays.

But we have that computer program that tells us the best player to take, and which ones we should cut.

You're right a QB that took his team to the NFCCG and was the highest rated passer in the league the following year before being injured isn't a commodity in a QB driven league.

If the 49ers were already established, it wasn't because if Baalke. He wasn't the official GM until 2011.

Commodity = something that satisfies wants and needs. The Chiefs fans want to win a SB and the Chiefs organization desperately needs to win a SB. Alex will satisfy none of the above.

49ers season records:

2007: 5-11
2008: 7-9
2009: 8-8
2010: 6-10
2011: 13-3
2012: 11-4-1
2013: 12-4

What year did you say he became GM again?

Did we have a 2nd round pick to trade this year?

I'd say that we tried to trade our first round pick, since it we waited till the clock hit zero to turn in our pick. Either nobody wanted to trade, or the offer wasn't that good.

The offer has yet to be good enough for Dorsey.

A 3rd wasn't good enough for Albert but a comp pick is.

the most graphic depiction of rape i've ever read

Nice to see on paper the great value the Chiefs got!

So They got a guy that ****ed up his knee, a guy behind Nick ****ing Moody on the depth chart ROFL, a guy that projects as a 1st down run stuffer at best, backup RB, and malcontent receiver. This is how the people bitching evaluate our guys, so only fair to do the same. We get a QB that helps take us from 2 to 11 wins and puts up 44 in the playoffs. Scores 35 ppg the 2nd half of the year when they score 13 a game the year before with same players. That is value.

Don't forget to leave out the jump from the 32nd ranked passing offense to the 25th.

I HATED to see Denver use a pick, that used to be ours, to draft WR Cody Latimer. :banghead: Dude is gonna be good, especially with 5-head throwing to him. He will make this kid the same way he made Decker.

Doubled the amount of points scored in one year isn't enough for you dipshits. I did forget the 400 plus total yards and 4 TDS in the playoffs, but you will whine he didn't throw a 5th because Gray is a slow turd ROFL

Ahh yes. Gray, the slow turd and Alex, not the guy that overthrew a wide the **** open receiver.

Absolutely none of the blame goes to a QB who managed to lead a team to a whopping 3 2nd half points. None.

I still fail to see this "haul" the Niners got in how the players are described in the article. Seems they got a bunch of jobbers.

Same here.

The only frustrating thing for me is that, after seeing this past weekend, I think Dorsey might have actually been able to do something with those picks.

The Chiefs wanted a capable starting QB and needed one that could not be compared to a dry lump of shit. AS satisfied both of those requirements.

You stated that the 49ers were established before he took over the GM duties, so his becoming GM in 2011 shouldn't matter. He hasn't been any better at hitting in draft picks than the majority if GMs. He's just had more chances due to using a commodity like AS to acquire extra picks. A few of his "hits" are even in question. Aldon Smith is a certifiable idiot who might not play this season and Kaepernick is far from a sure thing as a QB.

No. No, I didn't.

No way, not at all.

The 49ers failed to maximize the value of those picks.

One of those LBs won't even make the team and they drafted a defensive lineman named "Tank" - he's guaranteed to fail.

We could have kept the picks and been kicking ass with ..... who again?

I am not saying it was a great trade, it just wasn't a BAD one.

You are correct, you didn't. You are still wrong though.

Not really.

Corey Lemonade

Seeing how Dorsey works we wouldn't have turned them into 5 picks. We'd only have the 2 picks.

And just using this years pick the Chiefs could have got Latimer, Jean-Baptiste, Ealy, Landris... just to name a few that people were pining for on this board.

But other than that. The Chiefs would not have had Alex and they probably still would have had a respectable 8-8 season with just about any ****ing QB giving the schedule and the Chiefs defense to start the year. That means they would have been picking sooner and could have grabbed the QB they were on the verge of selecting in the first round, Manziel.

The Chiefs ownership wanted to sell tickets. Alex satisfied that. Hell, just about ANY new starting QB would likely have satisfied that want.

Baalke was the guy who whiffed on AJ Jenkins right?

Nope, only the Chiefs make mistakes....

And then took Jon Baldwin to replace him?

The Donks got your pick and we draft someone to kill you with. :)

Works both ways.

If you looked at the monetary value of the deal then the 49ers got the better half.

We all know the window ends with jughead the rest is irrelevant

I wasn't a fan of what we gave up for Alex. It was too much, but you knew we were going to have to pay for a QB if we weren't going to draft our own (it is what we do, you know). I wasn't particularly a fan of Alex the first eight games or so. He'd make an occasional play and not **** up the game - pretty much his M.O. You don't hamstring your future drafts for a Damon Huard that doesn't throw interceptions.

But after the bye, Alex looked like an entirely different guy. Had he played like that the entire season, NOBODY would have complained (much) about the price it took to get him. Now, assuming that Alex remains at the same level he ended the season at in Indianapolis, would you rather have him or one of the guys that the Niners drafted, or anyone that was on the board at the time we would have drafted in that second round?

Because of where they were drafted in respect to one another? Even so, how much did the 9ers save by us swapping WRs?

It's just Clark's money, in which I give zero ****s.

Pretty much. I'm thinking both of those guys on their rookie deals taken later in the first round aren't exactly cap busters anyway.

Unless you Donkeys are planning to cut Welker, Latimer is going to do jack shit his rookie season with Thomas, Welker, and Sanders ahead of him on the depth chart and his rawness in route running. Manning is not going to take Julius Thomas and his pass blocking RB off the field in favor of a raw rookie WR.

The 49ers already restructed Baldwin, but at the time I looked at their contracts and Baldwin had less guaranteed money left on his contract. As it is right now they'll save about $1m and 1 year of a roster spot.

So, we are in agreement then that they did in fact not get a "haul"

DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013)
LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013)
LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014)
RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014)
WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder)

Would all of these players combined taken us from a laughing stock 2-11 team to a playoff team like Alex did?

But, they got Baldfail. Just having him on the roster dragged this team down, or at the very least it chipped away at our sanity.

Meh.

Tit for tat.

We got Junkins.

Yeah, the 49ers actually did a very poor job, IMO, of maximizing the extra picks that they had. Draft another RB when you already have Marcus Latimore, Kendall Hunter, and Lamichael James in your backfield for the future? What the hell was that?

Borland isn't going to do crap on that team with Willis and Bowman there unless they're planning to cut Willis in the near future because of the cost.

Then they seem to have a fascination with players who have bad knee injuries in college. Carradine is far from a guarantee as a good player in this league and certainly won't be on Justin Smith's level as a player. The same can be said of Lemonier compared to Ahmad Brooks.

Stevie Johnson was a good WR a year ago but the 49ers don't really use their WRs anyways. They run the ball more than they pass it, and when they pass it, regardless of who is open, the only person who is going to get the ball is the primary receiver on the play (Crabtree, Boldin, or Davis). At best Johnson will be a 30-40 catch guy with about 300-400 yards to his name; he'll more likely be a 20ish catch guy with about 250 yards of production.

They're nice depth but they aren't pushing the 49ers over the Seahawks.

Only one of those guys would start for KC.

Not a chance.

Who cares.

One of the best organizations in the league picks a bunch of "jobbers" and the Chiefs had a great draft.

Only on ChiefsPlanet.

Eric Fisher
Knile Davis
Dee Ford
Travis Kelce
Alex Smith

Two firsts, two seconds, and two thirds used by John Dorsey. Bastions of physical health, the lot of them.

Wasn't aware that they all had ACL injuries and that Smith didn't play the entire season for us.:hmmm:

um, they got all of that for a QB they benched..a QB no one wanted FOR FREE a year before

he had 0 value to the 49ers, and they still flipped him for real draft value


it was ****ing genius

Hope Andy can build Murray up and rape so e team like he did with Kolb.

Look at the post I replied to.

They got something for nothing. But he was only "nothing" to them. He's "something" for us.

And when you look at how they used those picks, "rape" is a ridiculous word to use.

Hey that's how the author described them. Care to differ? I am not seeing anything other than "OMG DA NINERS PACKED EM". Kind of like when Cody and Kindle were hall of famers because of going to the Ravens ROFL

I'm pretty interested to see what the Chiefs do in next year's draft. Due primarily to the Smith trade, as well as a lack of comp picks (which give some flexibility to move other picks) they just haven't had a whole lot of ammo to move. They should have double-digit picks next year. We'll see if they do anything with them.

Probably a safety net for Bowman and his knee.

What would you rather have again?

Someone like Carson Palmer in free agency + 2013's 2nd round pick (used possibly to draft Geno) + Cody Latimer?

Or Alex Smith?

Smith easily. Palmer does not survive behind this OL with the limited weapons that we have. Smith is also a significantly smarter and more clutch performer than Palmer is. He's also young enough that he can be the answer for the next 5-6 years or beyond if he decides to play that long. Geno Smith is crap.

There's no guarantee that Latimer ever pans out. There are more physically gifted players who enter the league and end up failing terribly than you can count.

For two second rounders and a 5th, the Chiefs acquired Alex Smith, Tyler Bray, and Aaron Murray. For a team that was devoid of QB talent, I think Dorsey/Reid handled it alright (although truth be told, I'm not optimistic at all about Bray).

Palmer and Geno make me barf....and I was a Geno guy.

Kind of difficult to answer the question of what the right choice is or was right now. Time will tell. If we turn into the early '00s Eagles with Alex Smith behind center, are any of us really going to complain that they went with the names they liked instead of the names we liked? And on the flip side, if it fails miserably, we'll pretty much have our concerns confirmed.

Common sense has no place in draft discussion.

Also, for a guy who had Larry Fitzgerald, Michael Floyd, and Andre Roberts to throw to, Palmer had a piss poor TD:INT ratio of 24:22. He only threw 1 more TD than Smith did and he had a QB's dream to work with compared to what Smith had here.

There hasn't been a single season where Palmer has thrown for less than 12 INTs, the only time that he didn't throw that many was when he was injured and had his season cut short after 4 games.

Alex Smith was a key piece in taking a two win team to the playoffs overnight. What did the players from them picks contribute to so far for the 9ers? Add to it the Chiefs stole Cooper away from SF for free. I hated the trade as much as the next guy when it went down, but I'd say it worked out pretty well for the Chiefs regardless of what SF did with the picks.

Also, can I just say that these names:

DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013)
LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013)
LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014)
RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014)
WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder)

Are ****ing horse shit.

The only good pick I like up there is Borland, and that's because I'm a Wisconsin homer. The Stevie Johnson trade was insane value, too.

Everything else is horseshit. Baalke sucks.

I view the Jared Allen trade as more of a raping than the Alex Smith trade in terms of players drafted and value.

I'm arguing that if all the Smith trade gets us is 11-5 and a playoff loss in one season followed by 6-10 and no playoffs (which is more likely than getting a playoff appearance this year) then I would have preferred the Chiefs to not make this huge push in free agency last year. They should have let Bowe and Albert walk, kept a cheap QB and all their draft picks, and started over.

The deconstruction of this team is going to be messy, and it's a stage that has to take place before the reconstruction can happen. I could see us getting mired in shitty poorly negotiated contract after shitty poorly negotiated contract with an overpaid QB while we open up new wounds at a variety of positions every year.

This draft sets us up well to offload Hali and Flowers next year, but in the meantime we're STILL short a fantastic single-high safety and a WR who doesn't suck eggs next to Bowe. Oh, and Berry, Houston, and Smith still need new contracts.

Probably the first good post I've ever seen from you. Repped.

If our defense doesn't melt down against Indy the Alex haters would have no ground to stand on.

I want no part of Carson Palmer, regardless of the alternatives.

This thread = Lonewolfs ass

Great post.

Also Baalke got Boldin for a 6th while Dorsey drafted a backup fullback

one more year of playing + a comp pick. Albert was valuable last year.

This list of aquisitions by the 49ers looks good and all, but it doesn't mean dick if you don't have a quarterback.

The only reason they were able to wheel and deal like that is because they hit on their 2nd round pick of Kaepernick and had the first overall pick and a playoff winning QB available to deal.

If in three years, we have two different QBs on the team capable of winning deep in the playoffs, I'm fairly confident it will be Dorsey's turn to rape faces with a trade.

To be honest, the defense did most of the heavy lifting for the first 9 wins against a very easy schedule. Heck, I think we won a couple games where AS didn't have a TD pass (not going to look up but think it happened).

It was only after the defense completey shit themselves did the real Chiefs team emerge, a team that closed the season out 2-6 in their last 8.

Alex Smith is getting A LOT OF CREDIT for an easy start to last season and beast mode play by the defense for the first half of the season.

AS did play great in the playoff game (for the first half that is).

Btw I am definitely not an AS fan but agree that he is our best option then and now to win now. I do very much want the Chiefs to use a first round pick on a QB and develop them properly, this is my wish as a fan.

29 other GMs are horrible then because they didn't trade for Boldin either.