Allen Bailey
 

Is now tied with hali for 4 sacks on the season. And now has tied sacks from Jackson and Devito last year combined. What do you guys think of him? he's literally the opposite of Jackson/devito, he isn't very impressive against the run, but has turned out to be a solid pass rusher. i think he's the biggest difference maker amongst our dline this year, the interior pressure has been great. Its unfortunate he waited this long to pan out. do you guys think we'll be able to resign him? What kind of money do you guys think he's worth, or will end up getting? I have to think, if he keeps piling up sacks, he could at least fetch 7 million a year minimum somewhere, if jackson got 5 mill...

He's not that bad against the run.

He's lightyears ahead of Devito and Jackson.

I have great respect for john Coffey, like the drank sir, but I have no idea how to quantify the value of a 3/4 de

LMAO

I do know from last years FA, tjax got 5 mill a year, and arthur jones got 6.5. and through 7 games bailey already has as many sacks as either have had during an entire season. though, we both know pass rushing isn't the primary durt of the 3-4 DE. i have to think we may not be able to resign him if he continues at the rate hes going.

I have no statistics to support my claim, so i will not go too far. he's not as bad agaisnt the run as jackson and even more so devito are at pass rushing. but i've seen him get washed out on quite a few occasions. He and hali were both thoroughly dominated against the 49ers.

I think Bailey makes all the sense in the universe in this defense. He does give up some in the run vs. DeVito but his passrushing is excellent. He's a pretty good passrusher in his own right, but he's a brilliant clean-up artist whenever Poe, Hali, and Houston (and Dee Ford this week!) force a QB off his spot.

The Rams got off on running over him in the first quarter, so Sutton takes him out, and puts in the 6'6", 320 lbs Kevin Vickerson. Vickerson helps Poe shut down the run. The Rams have to start airing out the ball, and Sutton puts Bailey back in.

You really, truly, absolutely have to take your hat off to Sutton's dominance so far this year. A MUCH more impressive performance over last year's.

You're not alone. There were snaps against the Chargers last week where he was almost blocked out of the frame.

An understanding of the system by the players and an understanding of his players by Sutton.

Continuity and performance built by repetition.

Sutton gets to go to bed every night thinking,"Kendrick Lewis is not my problem anymore."


:)

And that's what scares me

I would like to keep him for another few years.

I really like Bailey too, that interior pressure has been killer this season. I know he has to have piled up a nice amount of pressures and hits. I think it really helps us not having to blitz, and being able to collapse pockers.

and i also tip my hat to sutton, he's been lot better this year!

The Chiefs will only have one year, really, to base his contract off of. I think he'll be had at a nice discount. There is no way you can justify keeping Devito and Vance Walker around, and not keeping Bailey. Both DeVito and Walker are very easy to cut next year.

I definitely think you cut DeVito, and re-sign Bailey.

I don't think it's likely, however. I fear the Chiefs will let Bailey walk and retain DeVito. That's a huge ego-blow by a GM to actively keep a draft pick of a prior regime and actively cut a premier free agent that Dorsey himself acquired.

DeVito was a premier free agent?

Are you ****ing high?

Premier free agent.

LMAO

Dipshit.

Hmm... I guess we'll see if that's true. I'd have to think Reid would have something to say about that. We've already heard Dorsey specifically say he realized after year 1 that Sutton's defense needs 1-gappers that can get pass rush vs. 2-gappers which was his rationale for signing Vance Walker. So I would bet that Dorsey is smart enough to realize DeVito isn't the best option for him at DE.

Unless I'm monumentally wrong, and I don't think I am, the contract we gave him is the largest of any freshly recruited Dorsey pickup not named Alex Smith.

Whatever term you want to give that is fine by me. But it doesn't change the facts.

Sean Smith makes more per year than DeVito

DeVito was getting blown by the commentators in the preseason for "working hard to be a three down DE."

My guess is, as always, he will sell Dorsey on that fantasy because getting GMs to admit they were wrong on FAs is like pulling teeth.

Replacing DeVito with Bailey would be the 100% correct move, but it would involve active moves by the GM on both players, when the GM has his chips pushed in with the wrong one. If Dorsey does nothing (which I fear he will), we're going to get DeVito impotently slapping into OLs on passing downs instead of Bailey's uber-athletic finesse.

But, hey. At least we'd get a compensatory pick. :rolleyes:

That's fair.

Mike DeVito was a 2nd tier free agent.

If he got a big contract, he was overpaid.

Those are the facts, dumbass.

Sean Smith's was bigger. Bowe's was bigger.

Dorsey doesn't actually sign FA players so, for him, that'd be a high priced free agent...

Bowe was not freshly recruited, he was already in the building. But I hear you on Smith.

Whatever you want to call him. Doesn't really change the gist of my point.

First off, pulling teeth isn't horribly difficult.

Second, DeVito tore an Achilles and isn't that young. Move on

Dorsey wasn't wrong about DeVito. DeVito was what we signed him to be. He's a decent player. He just got injured. And now we have other needs. That shit happens all the ****ing time.

We have to spend money on ****ing somebody. And Houston isn't going to get a JJ Watt contract.

Maybe Bailey challenges the waters and gets a crazy ****ing pile of cash from some team. But it's outrageous to think that Dorsey has any allegiance to DeVito over Bailey just because he made the decision to acquire one guy over the other. Bailey is younger, more athletic, and all-around a better player, and ANY GM, even ****ing Scott Pioli, will attempt to re-sign a guy like that.

LMAO

I reverse my entire argument.

Of course, I hope you're right.

Last offseason, however, has me wary.

You do what you can to keep players like Bailey and Hudson on this team. Yes, Houston is going to make a lot of money, but that doesn't mean you can't keep these guys too.

I've argued that the Chiefs need to spend money to keep Houston, Hudson, Bailey, Vickerson, Josh Martin, Sherman, Demetrius Harris, Mauga, Chris Owens, and Gafford back.

This is a winning squad. We just need to extend Hali, have a really good draft class, and somehow get a #2 WR.

That was great

If there's anything we learned about Dorsey, he overvalues players who fit his philosophy. Like the way he overvalued Ford because he believes explosion is the next big thing.

On that same note, Dorsey specifically said he made a mistake in year 1 by focusing too much on 2-gap. He said he specifically wanted DEs who can get push. For that reason, I'd be shocked if he kept Devito over Bailey even if Bailey is overpriced.

DeVito wasn't a premier free agent lol.

Bailey isn't going anywhere. He's making plays and having a very good impact on this defense. He'll be kept. Younger better player than DeVito who tore his achilles.

DeVito gone - save's $4 million
Walker gone - save $1.74 million
Daniel gone - save $3.8 million
Avery gone - save $3.5 million
Mays gone - save $3 million


That's clearing 16 million on from the cap without extending Berry and doing something with Hali's contract. You let guys like those listed above go so that you can keep up and coming players like Hudson and Bailey on this team. Each of the guys on the list are either replaced by somebody already on the roster or can be replaced in the draft.

Because we didn't re-sign any of the sacks of shit that needed new contracts?

Branden Albert was the only worthy player of that bunch, and his fate was written the moment the Eric Fisher pick was made, sadly.

our extra 3rd, 4th, and 5th round picks can be used to fill holes like these. We are going to have a lot of turnover on the roster since we have so many draft picks. This team is already young, and going to get younger and deeper.

Why? ROFL because we didn't keep any of the piles of shit except for Albert?

Atlanta sure is benefiting from taking Asamoah and Jackson huh? Tennessee also for DMC?

This team is saving money for the important players. We'll have plenty of money to keep the important guys, add good draft picks hopefully and maybe add an impact FA or 2.

So how many picks do we have next year? How many potentially after compensatory picks (13?)?

One from Jackson, Albert, Asamoah and maybe Lewis?

Also, excluding Albert, there is one player whom Dorsey DID re-sign because he's actually a good player, unlike, Jackson, Asamoah, McCluster, and Lewis.

Husain Abdullah.

Could it be that Dorsey looked at that group of players who needed new contracts this year and said, "You guys ****ing suck. I don't want you."

I think he deserves a bit of credit for that instead of being this giant Jew who hates all players from former regimes.

ROFL

It's pretty lobsided. We almost certainly have to get 4.

Jackson, Albert, Asamoah definitely. The 4th is by the weird comp formulas almost a combination of guys we lost vs. guys we gained. So between Lewis/Demps/McCluster, that's turning into losing a lot more than Walker and Mays. This will be a decent haul and if we get 4, we'll have 11 picks next year. Pretty damn good.

How about Commings and Fasano gone too.

What? How in the **** are Walker, Daniel and Mays "gone"?

Mays will start the minute he's healthy. Walker is a cheap body. There isn't a QB on the roster that can replace Daniel right now.

Plus, the salary cap is "supposed" to jump big time. Hell, this year, it jumped $10 million.

Faux roster cuts after game seven are just ****ing stupid. You should stick to blowing Republican senators in airport bathrooms.

NTTATWWT

Commings? LMAO

If the Chiefs need the $500k saving by cutting Commings, the Clark's should fire everyone.

Who is josh Martin for 500, direkshun.

He had 1/2 a sack against the Rams, for starters.

Thanks. I literally didn't know he'd had made a difference. But I was busy for most of yesterday's game. Has he done anything the rest of the season?

He's played special teams and spotwork filling in on Houston's side.

I make Hudson, Bailey and Houston priorities out of this bunch.

Sherman is next up but not quite irreplaceable, just because FB is a dying position. He should be relatively cheap, though, and he offers a lot in terms of lead blocking in short yardage/goal line situations and unexpected screens that seem to always go for TDs or converted 3rd downs.

Everyone else you mentioned can stay for minimum contracts but I'd rather Mauga walk. Dude is JAG.

How much, yearly, are we looking at for Hudson and Bailey?

Maybe $3 or $4 mil per? Hudson is the better player but centers don't usually get paid and Bailey is pretty under the radar. I would think <$5 mil for sure..

Definitely need to keep Country Strong and keep the rest of our front intact. Missing two/three of our front 7 starters hasn't seemed to hurt us for now but IMO having a dominant front 7 is where it's at. And if keeping and improving the front 7 means we lose a guy like Berry and we replace him with a high draft pick so be it.

Since Commings' middle intials are IR, no matter what his salary is, the dude needs to be jettisoned for some other man who can actually play.

this

also add catepano hopefully recovers from his mystery virus, and can pee in a cup again, DeVito is gone

Vickerson was a nice addition. Bailey has been a monster pass rusher.

I think cats over his virus but is going through concussion protocol somewhere.

Last report I saw is he's out for the season and it's because of a concussion.

They are "gone" because like it or not we will have to make some painful cuts to do what we need to do in the offseason. I like Mays, but I don't think he's a 'must" have, and if you can create some cap space cutting guys like this you need to. Additionally we are going need space on the roster for a bunch of draft picks.

I don't think we will make many painful cuts. I'm sure and hope at some point, we start trimming the fat of the stopgaps Dorsey brought in year 1. But our cap situation improves dramatically after this year and two years from now looks great.

I am sure we are done with the flashy free agency moves and will see much more reliance on signing our own and using the draft and scrap pile to fill in the rest. Keep in mind Reid had an interview where he specifically said he likes keeping players for continuity purposes. So I'm guessing that if you're still in house, Reid is going to make the case for that person to stay.

I have liked Bailey since the pre-season. He's one of those guys that showed some stuff then and kept it going into the regular season. He's giving us a lot more from that position than Atlanta is going to get from Tyson Jackson.

Bailey, Ron Parker, even Gaines are playing far better than I could ever have hoped...

The cuts I'm talking about are for guys like Avery, Walker, Devito, Mays, and Fasano

Why would we extend Hali?

I could envision us giving Hali a revised deal

I hope not. Pay him his $12,000,000 next year and let him walk or cut him and save $9,000,000. He's just starting to show his age, and I'd rather let him go a year too soon than a year too late.

It's an insufficient pool from which to render a real conclusion (especially since the Rams were playing from behind with a bunch of replacements) but Dee Ford looked decent during his time in the fourth quarter. Hopefully he continues to mature in the role as "guy opposite Houston" and thereby renders the Hali questions moot.

I'm not a cap guru like some guys on here but it seems we could extend him and actually lower his cap hit this coming season.

Of course, he'd have to agree to taking a pay cut for that to work. Dorsey would also have to feel that he's worth keeping around at a cheaper, but probably still pretty expensive relatively speaking, price while his most recent 1st rounder rides the pine.

I love Hali but I just can't see that happening.

Dorsey drafted Ford because he has no intentions of keeping Hali...

I'm with Saul on this.

Hali is a good guy. But he knows this is his last contract. He is going to negotiate a contract that pays him a shitload of money well into his twilight years. Yeah, it will be cap friendly short-term, but we'll ultimately be overpaying him when he turns 33 and up.

If we can get a short-term deal that is realistic about his value as he starts to decline, great. I don't see that happening. So yeah, I think $12M for him next year is fair value but after that, cut your losses.

Yeah, I think the moves we've made have made most of those guys (except maybe Avery, who would still be a good backup for a reasonable price) expendable. Probably need to add one more TE and ILB, which we can address with the gazillion draft picks we have.

We did the same with Albert. Im ok with that. Hali is getting up there in age. He's a good guy, but at some point you gotta part ways.

Truth here, which is exactly why I don't see it happening.