Renovating a Kitchen. Looking for Advice.
 

Mrs. Buehler445 and I are buying a different house. It is really what we want in terms of size, layout, neighborhood, etc. The only drawback is there are no upper cabinets in the kitchen...WTF? Anyway, we made the decision to man up and put in a kitchen that we want.

Since I'm a home renovation n00b, I'd appreciate any advice, tips, or experiences the CP braintrust can provide.

In doing this, we are going to have to come up with,

Cabinets (obviously)

Countertop

Backsplash

Moving the sink :cuss: I hate plumbing. But it shouldn't be too bad, the plumbing is in an unfinished portion of the basement

Flooring which I'm pretty comfortable with.

Most of the work will be hired, partially because I'm a noob. Partially because I'm busy as ****.

TIA

EDIT: Already have the antifreeze tap on order.

Spend the extra money on good countertops--granite, quartz, silestone, etc...

Termites + insurance = win

Really? I've actually heard the opposite from a lot of people. I've had pretty decent luck with formica.

No go. Already did the inspection.

When you hook up the faucet the HOT water should be on the left and the COLD water on the right.

I thought you lived on a farm? Are you moving the farm too?

Negatory. I'm a farmer. It is not requisite to live on a farm.

My wife is a teacher. Thankfully we don't live at the school.

To me nothing says "cheap remodel" like Formica countertops. If that is the route you choose to go, make sure to complete the look with linoleum floors, plain white tile backsplash, and gold light fixtures.

ROFL

I just thought you did based on your farming posts. I realize you don't have to live there but a lot do.

Enjoy the move asshat!

We had a small, really small kitchen at our new place. See the pics for before and after.

Upper Cabinets were from IKEA. Open shelves are just bookshelf's. Custom installed by a professional that happens to live down the street. Went with Granite and the mirrored backsplash.

Backsplash is now out of date. It's 80'ish.

Nice job. The only thing I'm not a fan of is the ceiling fan.

We love it. The mirror is all one piece and makes the kitchen seem a lot bigger. We had popcorn ceilings in every room to get rid of. Talk about being out of date! And what a frigging mess to remove.:(

Don't trust inspectors. Most "inspect" with their eyes.

It's Florida. When cooking its gets really hot. Fans are a must have.

ROFL

Who in the hell told you this?

This is what I think is funny home remodeling. It has nothing to do with what is practical, everything to do with what is in style. Its reeruned. And the term "dated". Which basically means everything is still useful but somebody onHGTV in the last 5 years decided that isnt tasteful anymore. All it does is make homeowners spend more money on new useless shit

Advice - spend a few extra bucks have a pro do it.

I just had my hall bathroom remodeled for 2.8k. All new plank grigio tile on floor and up entire shower. Fan installed. Huge mosaic backsplash. New toilet, paint, granite vanity. After estimates of 8.5k and 11k, seems like a good deal.

While I'd want something stylish for the counter-tops, I'd also want something that is easy to maintain and easy to care for.

This

Exactly. The money spent will have a pretty good ROI, b/c of the no maintenance factor. Same goes for the backsplash. It will never be "dated", as it's not about the visual appeal, that's merely a bonus. The purpose of the backsplash is to mitigate the effects of water and grease splatter, and make for easy cleaning. Buyers love that.

Ive heard ppl complain that Granite isnt easyto maintain. I dont see why. I just use the granite sealer every couple years and call it good. Still looks fine to me but im probably doing it wrong

You have to maintain granite? I've had mine for eight years and all I ever do is wipe the crumbs off. It doesn't look any different now than it did new.

Said no one ever.

I have never heard anyone say a backsplash is out of style. The best designers are still using them. So consider the source on that one.

Ya mosaic backsplashes are the rave right now

Get multiple estimates, prep work is everything, do things in order, hire people who can produce a license, don't hand over ANY money up front, make a plan and stick to it and hire the proper trade for each phase. Follow these steps and you should be okay

http://gurutotheoutdoors.com/wp-cont...pper-pole4.gif

Make sure you put in one of those pole things to hang your dish towels on..I recommend one like this..it seems to have a waving motion built in

I'm sure this Mrs. would enjoy it as well

If you go this route, you're going to want the backsplash.

You need to post more. You seem very knowledgeable about renovating and remodeling kitchens.

ROFL

Fair enough.

I was just meaning resources are better spent elsewhere in the remodel - tile, backsplash, lighting, etc.

In fear of outing myself as a backwoods hillbilly mother****er, I've really been around very few non-formica countertops. Just like everything else, construction can go from jank ass to pretty dang good. I'll definitely look into it, and if the value is there, I'm down, but I don't really want to spend money for the sake of just spending money/status/etc.

Any advice on which types are the best value? I'm definitely all about functionality.

Corian countertops are worth looking into. Less expensive than granite but very durable and better looking than laminate

bwillie had a good point earlier in the thread about function versus appearance. You can go pretty cheap if you're just after function, and it'll work just fine.

However, you're going to be spending a lot of time in the kitchen, so it may be worth spending more so that it's a pleasant experience. I've done a lot of remodeling on my home, and when you're in a house for 20 years you really appreciate the investment to make things pleasant. Your home is where you spend much of your life.

Resale is always an issue, too, though I admit that I don't worry about it much. I was talking to someone at a large homebuilder the other day, and they said, "No one ever builds a new home without granite countertops these days. That's a 100 percent deal. It's just not done." Now, you may not care about it, but if you're building a kitchen with formica (which is a much older style), it'll make your remodel look older. That could affect resale.

Granite, Quartzite or Corian countertops with a glass mosaic backsplash is the way to go. Don't make the mistake (like I initially did) and do the entire kitchen area in granite. You need contrast.

Granite and the man-made materials are cheaper than ever and if you pick a nice neutral color (nothing strong), you'll be able to change your backsplash out fairly easily with changing times.

But nice Granite/Corian/Quartzite countertop never goes out of style.

Sorry for the sarcastic ass response. I couldn't help myself. :D

Anyway, here's the story. I grew up in the country. I liked it and all when I was a kid, but it is a pissassload of work. When I look at all the country houses out here, all I see is the work that needs to be done out there. There have been a couple opportunities, but son of a bitch. All these houses are used up and the lots needs mountains of money and work in order for it to be up to my standards.

I have enough places for my money and most notably my time. I have enough trouble keeping up with the work on the farm, the last thing I want to do is fight 100 year old septic tanks, try to keep trees alive that are lifecycled out, fight wells that pump sand, or dry up all together, jank ass county roads, on top of old ass houses that need attention.

There is also the commute for my wife. I have a pickup, but she drives a car. Cars don't handle rock roads worth a damn anymore. Plus, for 2 years my wife commuted 90 miles a day for her job. It would have sucked nuts to make her drive through the mud (in the event it actually rained LOL) AND THEN drive 45 miles.

There are also some benefits for our daughter from a social perspective. Both my wife and I grew up in the country and we think there are some social benefits to living in town and being closer to social circles, etc. We think we can still get work ethic, chores and stuff at the farm. We'll see how it works out, but it definitely factored into the decision.

Perhaps the biggest thing is that living in town gets me away from the farm. If things are shitty and dying, I can get away from it and not be surrounded by it every waking minute. During busy times, I can get away and not feel (quite as) compelled to go back to work all the damn time. I work with a lot of stress, and it is fairly important for me to separate myself from it.

So anyway, that's the non-dickhead response.

Looks great man. Did you install them?

Done.

After not having a backsplash all of my adult life, I'm having a backsplash, damn it.

Good advice, thanks. We are not going to cheap out on a lot of the stuff, but I'm definitely on a budget. I've had comparatively cruddy kitchens my whole life. At this point we have spent the money on nice appliances and want to get the kitchen right as we intend to stay there for a long time.

http://www.dreamstime.com/sexy-const...umb5589393.jpg

She seems professional

Ideally, a person using a work surface in a kitchen should not have to move out of the way to make room for an appliance to be opened and used by another person in the kitchen. And pay attention to the position of the dishwasher in relation to the sink. I like mine on the left. That's the hand I prefer to use to load the thing.

This...

but I would also keep in mind that price range of your home / neighborhood.

If most of your neighbors have a stone then you should.

In my neighborhood we are about to list / sell and we re-did our kitchen but we put in the regular but solid tops you get at home depot - just cut and install.

My parents had the quartz put in - looks great and from what I understand also less expensive than granite.

Your OP is too vague. What are you looking for advice on? Materials? References for stores/contractors/designers?

Are you looking to make something you like? Or, considering resale value, too?

I think you'd be best to post some pics of kitchen styles you like and then ask "How do Iget this look for the least cost"

Is that what you want? Everyone's taste is different, so that's what you are going to get with a general ask.

I think the basics are: colors and shapes.

SHAPES: are you going to make the new kitchen in that same footprint/layout as the existing? Are you going to keep the existing base cabinets and just add wall cabinets? If so, are you open to painting/resurfacing the existing cabinets? or want to keep them as-is (in which case you will just be finding matching wall cabinets and your upgrade will be in the countertops/backsplash.)

COLORS: Will you be painting the walls? Will you be keeping the colors of the cabinets the same? Do you want mono-chromatic look or bright colors? Cabinets: wood or white or gray or what?

(I just went through all this and it is painful and it cost more than I had expected but we opened a can of worms)

It's certainly cheaper. But Formica and other laminates are available in a wide array of colors and textures and finishes. They make some absolutely beautiful stuff now.

Granite in Enid, OK is $55/sq ft. That seems expensive. I'll be stuck with Formica when we do our remodel. I'd never get my return on granite, mostly due to my average neighborhood.

My bathroom remodel I was lucky enough to find a 5x3ft granite leftover for $450.

Don't cheap out on a kitchen - generally a lot of time is spent there, and has huge returns on resale. Get quality countertops, good cabinetry/hardware, lighting, sink/faucet, flooring. I'd suggest maximizing cabinetry height on the uppers, pullout trash/recycling, cookie sheet drawer, make sure you have ample food storage/accessibility (use pullout shelving, if needed), under cabinet lighting. If you really want to do it up, double oven, hood.

If you're doing it, do it right, or you'll regret it later.

I am not talking about the wall, but that piece of counter that comes up about 4" onto the wall. That's no longer in style.

If you're not sure of what you like for a "look"—hire a designer—one that will work with you keeping your preferences and budget in mind. I think the extra money pays off.

No they're not. I clarified what I meant by one.


Consider the source? Ahem, I am a designer though' not an interior one but I've worked with a LOT of them particularly when having accounts like real estate developers like Arthur Rutenberg homes , hotel/resort interior designers and architects, plus some of the trade shows I have to visit are big Home Shows with the very latest in kitchen design and technology. The little splash from the bottom of the counter that extends up about 4-5 inches are now gone. It's old. Out-of-date. It dates a kitchen.

I think the source to be considered is you. I could design your arse off, kiddo. Even if its a kitchen.

Also, pay to visit a good-size home show for ideas. You'll see all the very latest design and technologies and not just for a kitchen. There's even new surfaces that are faux-granite or stone that look real but have other advantages. The good ones have fabulous booth displays with consultants in them too. I've even been to ones where Amish wood craftsman have booths. But at least you'll get to see in the real world what YOU and your wife would like as opposed to what others will say they like.

http://3by3design.co/wp-content/uplo...tchenimage.jpg

Just got done doing something similar to this in a family members home..only thing different is counter tops were a lighter color with quartz veins in it and it had a big farmhouse sink in it

That's an amazing transformation. We're going to put our house on the market in 8 or 9 months so I've been doing some planning on what needs done. I've read that quality counter tops are #1 for ROI in a kitchen remodel. Do you like the granite? How easy is it to maintain?

Very, very nice. Pendant lights are very much in style too.

How much does a remodel like that cost?

I did a major kitchen remodel about 8 years ago, but I can't parse out the cost of the kitchen because it was part of a larger project. It kind of annoys me that I don't know the cost of the kitchen.

We had plans to do a nice set of french doors going out from the kitchen to our back deck. it would have been really cool. There was an existing door with a window right next to it, so it would have been easy to do structurally. However, the contractor discovered a water pipe running between the door and the window, and said that it would be expensive to move it due to some layout issues. (It went up to the second floor.) We didn't do it and kept the window. Several years later, we figured out that the water pipe was an orphaned pipe that's not even used. Sigh.

I'm not sure how much they spent exactly..I know it was a little cheaper than normal because he has friends in construction that helped him get good deals on cabinets and the counters..he also did a lot of work himself and I helped a lot so he saved a lot on labor costs..it was a complete tear out and start from scratch remodel

I will call him and see if he can give me the price

Are you planning to make this your forever home? What ever you do it will probably not increase the resale value of your home that much (unless its a total wreck right now) so it has to fit what you want. Make a list of the things that you must have (pantry and storage for small appliances are high on my list) and start there, don't be afraid to have a wall moved if you need to get the floor space you need. If you get squeezed on the budget then countertops can be a place to skimp. You can always come back later and put in the granite/solid surface when the money gets better. Same thing for appliances, maybe you can reuse and spread the cost. Shop around the new houses and look for cabinets you like, customs may be the better route (especially if business is weak for the cabinet makers). Another place to look for deals is HomeDepot/Lowes/Sears etc in the repaired appliance section.

I can paint a John Deere tractor busting through your wall... your wife will love it!

John Deere..."it's whats for breakfast"

seriously, if you need a cabinet refinish, I can do that too.

I helped pour two cement countertops. One went with sanded natural look, the other with stained marbling effect acid. Both look great. And way cheaper than granite. Just have to practice making sure there are no bubbles.

Things I like about my kitchen remodel:


We built roll-out shelves in the pantry. Super cool and adds to storage capacity.

We built a really low shelf in the pantry specifically for flat stuff like plastic wrap and aluminum foil. It takes very little room and stores stuff that's hard to find a place for.

We built lazy susans into the corner cabinets so we don't have to dig around to find the pans and stuff that we don't use often.

We built a couple of very narrow cabinets for cutting boards and cookie sheets. Works great.

We put in tons of lighting. You can never have too much lighting. Undercounter, ceiling, a spotlight over the sink, etc.

We built a decorative top row above the cabinets. Glass doors and can lighting, and we put decorative stuff up there that we seldom need - e.g., soup tureens, vases, teapots, etc.

We bought a very decorative granite that we really like, but that's a matter of taste.

We bought mid-range appliances and were happy that we didn't pay more for the premium models.

We built a cabinet specifically for the trash can.

Things I don't like about my kitchen remodel:


We should've put heating under the floor tiles. Someone on CP does that, and you should ask.

Our dishwasher is in the wrong place. It's on the inside of a corner, and you can't put stuff away in a couple of cabinets without a two-phase process.

Our refrigerator opens into the pull-out shelves in our pantry. We accidentally scratched the front of the fridge because we opened it into the little metal rail when a pantry shelf was open.

There are some layout issues that are kind of annoying, but our kitchen is small so maybe there were inevitable.

We bought a fancy faucet that has the built-in sprayer and built-in soap dispenser. The sprayer is great, but the soap dispenser was a total bust. Never worked right, the faucet company can't seem to fix it, and even if it worked it would've required crawling underneath the sink to fill it up.

I would love to have those and will sooner than later. They aren't cheap though.

We built a really low shelf in the pantry specifically for flat stuff like plastic wrap and aluminum foil. It takes very little room and stores stuff that's hard to find a place for.

And as for "not digging around" — I hate that too.

That sounds cool.
Forgive me for this, but you guys don't cook right?
I would never have room for decorative stuff like that—though a soup tureen isn't an oft-used item.



If you don't cook often, I think it's harder to predict layout issues like this. I didn't cook a lot when I bought this place and my daughter was younger because I worked too much. Now, I am convinced a galley kitchen is the best, most efficient and easiest kitchen to prepare and cook food.

We've had spells of cooking a lot in the past, but right now we don't cook much at all. Shockingly little, to be honest. Our schedules just don't work out to be at home together in time for dinner. So there's a whole lot of grazing in our house.


Yeah, plus our kitchen is pretty small compared to newer homes. The house is 109 years old, and people didn't spend any time in kitchens back then. The funny thing is that our kitchen was originally two rooms - a kitchen and a butler's pantry. Even combined now, it's still small.

We wanted to knock out the back of the house and expand it when we did the remodel, but it just didn't make sense. It would've cost a fortune and it would've messed up the feng shui and proportions of the back yard pretty bad.

I'm really looking for what I don't know to ask about. I thought formica was a done deal, but this thread opened my eyes to some different lines of thinking out there.

As far as what I'm weak on, since I've got my head buried in the dust of hickabilly nowhereville, knowing what options are out there is a big deal for me.

Also, what types of cabinets should I look for, and what do I look for with quality? I'm a shit carpenter and know nothing about build and finish quality. I really don't want to drop a pile of cash and get crap out. Are the lines at home depot good enough? Do I need to be looking somewhere else? I don't know much there.

Other than that, just what works and doesn't and what to avoid.

Just what we like. I don't have any plans to move at the moment.


I'll see if I can grab some pictures. It is currently a galley kitchen and I'd like to expand the footprint of it. There is room, but we'll have to see where the bids end up.

The existing cabinets are probably going to go.

That went out in the 70's, man. Functionally, I like the idea of it, in being easiest to clean and seal, but we are going to do some sort of tile back there.

I live in bum**** nowhereville. I don't think there is a designer in the area, but I'll check. You may be onto something there.

Also, keep your options open. If a kitchen costs $50,000, you could just turn your kitchen into a TV room and the savings would pay for 5,000 meals at your local Dairy Queen, or 1,700 pizza deliveries. Just because my wife nixed this idea at my house doesn't mean that it shouldn't be considered.

You're not talking about a backsplash, you're talking about typical Formica countertops. We've covered that.

Yes, you can have it done in stone or engineered some, but that wouldn't be "countertops" and would certainly cost extra.

Planning on it at the moment. I have a long time until I die (hopefully), so we'll see, but it is set up as a house we can retire in. I need to get some ballpark numbers together to figure out just how far we can go.

I'm keeping the appliances I have. I have a good chunk of money tied up in them and they are what I Mrs. Buehler445 wants.

It's never too late...

I've seen the rollout things. I'll definitely look into it, but I think if I have to cut something, that is right up there.

Lazy susan's rule. Non-negotiable.

I'm with you on the lighting. That is going to happen either way. I'm a freak. I think I'm the only guy around that likes white light. I freaking hate yellow light, and everybody else puts it in. I can't see as well, and it makes everything look dingy. Good lighting, especially undercounter lighting is a must.

Floor heat isn't hard, but I don't think I'm going to look at it. I don't live on a mountain :D.

I'll keep that other stuff in mind. Thanks for the input.

For Cabinets delivered to your door may I recommend Cabinet Giant.
They have been nothing short of amazing and I am very impressed with their product and ease of use to get new cabinets up and in.

http://www.cabinetgiant.com/

When we built our house we had a large island installed. My wife is 5'11" and the island is 6" taller than stock so its easier for her to work with bread dough. The cabinet guy had scraps of maple, glued them together, planed it and installed it as our 4 foot square butcher block top. That is the kind of stuff that makes it usable and liveable. My wife added our double oven and gas cooktop about 5 years after we moved in. Couldn't get the slide in range/oven to cook like she wanted it to. We had to have a gas line run to accommodate the additional load so keep that in mind.

Good advice. Thanks. Are islands typically taller than cabinets?

Mrs. Buehler 445 is 5'5, but I'm 6'3.

Everybody on here is saying skip formica and automatically go with the expensive countertops. However, that really depends on if your planning on reselling your home and what price range your home is in. Putting Granite

countertops in a 20K house is just going to lose you money. It really depends on what neighborhood you are in and the top price your house will sell at. Yes, Granite counters will help it sell faster but is that worth the 8K or

something you won't make back on the resell. Now if the house is worth more than 150K I would definitely say look into granite. But below that it is a toss up because your will probably pay more for that counter than you will

get back.

8k for granite countertops? How big do you think his kitchen is?

Do you have any pictures? Would like to see what they look like. Sounds pretty neat.

I'm not sure how that would look in a suburban neighborhood like mine.

http://www.de-kor.com/assets/images/...-installed.jpg

Under cabinet lights are very handy

http://loops.typepad.com/.a/6a00d834...8da69d0970d-pi

These in all cabinets are like having a pocket on your shirt..handy

High maintenance

LOL. I guess it depends. They quoted 6-8k for my kitchen but I have a pretty big kitchen. Honestly I didn't look into it much cause I could do the formica myself for 200-300 dollars. So that was the route I went. Just wasn't cost effective to put in granite with the neighborhood I was in.

True. Granite makes no sense if you're not in a granite neighborhood.

Nope. I am talking behind the counter on the wall, just the lower portion. They can be done with solid surfaces—not just formica. They can even be coved.

http://www.gosmith.com/howto/3452/tr...friendly-style
See the second pic. Very nicely nice. I see those glass tiles at shows without one and I wouldn't want that.

I have no idea what you're referring to.