Cool F15 dogfight video
 

I dont know if there has been a modern day jet fighter dogfight since VN but this is apparently what it would look like.
Added plus the music isn't Danger Zone TG.


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5 Finger Death Punch has straight up ruined this video.

Sadly, the F-15 will probably be the most badass bird on the planet for another 20 years or so after we retire her for the goddamn F-35.

The F-15SA we're selling to Saudi Arabia but not building for ourselves is an absolutely insane aircraft. They essentially took the Strike Eagle, put the most badass gadgets we have in it and activated every outboard wing station it has so it's weapons payload is pretty much unprecedented.

The gadget mentality that has us phasing out superior aircraft like the A-10 and F-15 in the name of absolute dogs like the F-35 is damn disappointing. I don't normally bitch about the military industrial complex, but it sure seems like we built the F-35 just to say we built it and not because it was needed or even better than what we had already.

Really cool video.

Programs like the F-35 are an attempt to keep costs down by combining the roles of multiple previous generation platforms into one. The result inevitably involves performance trade offs, unfortunately.

That was awesome

Except there's a pretty good chance that the cost overruns associated with making the F-35 all things to all people, not to mention the different variants required, has made it where maintaining separate airframes would almost certainly have been more cost effective.

The F-35 may have been a decent idea in theory but it should have been scrapped well before it got this far.

I haven't followed the F-35 problems so I'll defer to you on that, but maintaining not only separate airframes, but also the industrial capacity to continue their production is pretty costly.

There's a lot of pressure right now from people who don't appreciate the value of our national defense infrastructure to use the defense budget as a piggy bank from which to fund all sorts of non-defense spending. I'd be thrilled if it were feasible to continue to have a dedicated air superiority airframe, a dedicated close air support airframe, a dedicated medium attack airframe, etc. I just don't see it being politically supportable.

The F-35A isn't meant to be an air superiority fighter though. That's the purview of F-15s and F-22s. It can defend itself in a pinch, but the aforementioned jets are the ones meant to neutralize other fighters... Assuming Raptor pilots don't die of cancer first.

You're right.

... and I guess the same applies to the Navy's F-35Cs and the F-18E/Fs in terms of which airframe takes on air superiority and ground attack roles..

None of those are worthwhile, computer operated planes without pilots are the only thing we should be building. Humans are obsolete in aerial combat, or will be shortly.

Try the next year's model with Avenged Sevenfold...

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Kadena Air Base, Fighting Cocks ZZ's in the house. My old base and squadron. If you didn't know...fighter pilots are straight up crazy. But they throw a hell of a party...

Added plus?

Kenneth Loggins is da man brotha. And instead 5FDP had to ruin our ears.

This sucks to hear...

Like the end of the F-14, it's hard to watch bad-ass planes get retired when you know they won't be replaced by enough newer bad-ass planes..

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When were you at Kadena?

Yeah, I upgrade to "Early Bird Check-in" on Southwest.

Pretty cool.

90-91

This thread really makes me regret not joining the air force coming out of HS. I was offered a free ride in terms of college tuition and my GF at the time talked me into not joining.

My dream as a kid was always to be a fighter pilot.

**** women and college, i shoulda joined the air force.

Bad-ass. Love it... Rep!

Ha! I went in to get away from a chick I was supposed to go to college with (not the ONLY reason, but it was there). Where I ****ed up was not making a career out of it. Never realized how good I had it, especially when I was in Okinawa.

And the Air Force really does (or did) take care of its people.

The operational history of the F-14 is pretty funny if you ever feeling like going down that rabbithole.

It was essentially an interceptor built around a missile (the phoenix) in the same way that the A-10 was built around its main gun. The difference is that the phoenix was only fired something like 3 times in combat and it never actually hit what it was aiming at. There's a decent chance that the phoenix wasn't a very good weapon.

That said, it's radar was incredibly sophisticated at the time (it had to be to take advantage of the phoenix's range). It had multi-target capability, fire and forget; all kinds of neat shit. The radar signal was distinct enough that the Tomcat would pick guys up at 100 miles out and as soon as they got pinged they'd recognize the tomcat signature and bug out.

It's hard saying whether or not the F-14 was actually as great an interceptor as its reputation...nobody ever really ****ed with it. There are stories of 8-10 enemy fighters being engaged by 2 Tomcats and before the fighters were even in range to do anything they got the hell out of dodge because the F-14 had already put them in lock.

It was the ultimate in deterrence. The Iranians claim to have put up some pretty impressive air-to-air kill figures with them but as far as I can tell, the US didn't ever really have to put them through their paces - everyone ran away.

I got wait listed for JAG and took another job. I had that job for a few months when the JAG slot opened up but by then I felt committed to the people I was working with (still am) so I didn't take it.

I'm not sure if I regret it or not. Like you've said, the USAF seems to destroy pretty much every other branch of service when it comes to how they take care of their own. I'd be sitting at Major right now which would be a pretty sweet gig but I'd also be looking at getting moved every 3 years or so. Getting stuck in Minot or Canon sure sounds shitty and I'm sure my wife wouldn't have bothered with her masters or anything. All told, I think I made the right call but there are definitely times I wonder.

I loved the F-14, but I wouldn't have wanted to be in one this day:

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and with audio:

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That's what over-the-horizon do!

LMAO. I was there from 88-91.





I was 8 years old when we moved there.

LMAO

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Man toys!!! Sound of freedom....

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Not gonna lie, it moved when that thing emerged from the trees.

That's impressive as hell. I'd imagine it's childs play compared to what they can do with the lighter jets that also have thrust vectoring, but getting a plane that big to climb like that so early after takeoff is pretty impressive stuff.

Yep. "Boys will be boys!" was playing in my head while watching that.

http://themellowjihadi.com/wp-conten...-low-pass1.jpg

I remember reading that the guy with his hands behind his back was an admiral.

LMAO

The men on carriers had some cool ways to blow-off steam that we didn't on submarines. There were times when when we flew out to carriers where I was just in awe of some of the coolness. Now, they did have a lot of goofy rules that I didn't quite get, but this isn't about that, it's about celebrating bad-ass planes in the U.S. inventory (even if retired)...

When the Air Force finally gets their way and kills off the A-10, I'll be every bit as sad as I was when they put the last F-14 in mothballs.

That has to be considered the most successful airframe in US history, doesn't it? Has any plane we've ever had been better at it's job than the A-10 is at close air support?

Y'know what, I take that back - it's probably the Mustang. With the added range that the Mustang had, we were able to provide far better bomber escorts and suddenly our bombers weren't getting knocked out of the sky faster than we could build them.

The A-10 is great at what it does but it didn't have nearly the far-reaching impact that the Mustang did. It changed the entire way we dealt with the Luftwaffe and as a result, Germany as a whole.

A tip of the cap to ya Sir... I agree. I was Navy, and the one thing I'd say about the A-10 drivers was that they were welcome in my house any day. They were some bad-ass dudes in a bad-ass plane.

And when you need help, and it's umbrella weather (so many of the other guys want to stay inside), the A-10 were their adding to the rain.

Bad-ass dude, BAD-ASS!!

Lol, what a small world. You were probably one of the little shits raising hell at the USO or arcade constantly, weren't you? Haha

Probably. My Dad was First Sgt at one of the squadrons there.

I was stationed at Davis-Monthan in Tucson and we used to go out and watch the A-10s. Those things are ****ing amazing.

Did you know that if you strapped the vulcan cannon from a Warthog to the top of your car, put it in neutral and then laid on the trigger you'd get from 0-60 in about 3 seconds?

https://what-if.xkcd.com/21/

They had to upgrade the engines during testing because the force from the cannon was putting the plane at stall speeds.

I got to fly alongside (and by alongside, I was probably 20 miles out) a couple of A-10 while I was in a Cesna 172 coming into the private airport in Oklahoma City. It was awfully cool even sharing the same sky with those guys. The only thing comparable was when I was driving into Whitman for my JAG interview and they had one of the Spirits landing. It flew right over top of my car as I was coming into the base and with flaps down and being that low in the air, the thing absolutely looked like a hovering alien spacecraft. It was completely surreal. I got to go drive the flight line with the base JAG officer; man it was cool. Earlier in that week someone taxiing one had smashed a wing into the garage and really messed it up. Gotta figure that left a mark on their record...

Awesome.

The day I arrived at Kadena was the last day the last SR-71 was there. We were on the tarmac processing in and the Blackbird just kept doing fly-bys. One of the last, if not the last, was a high speed fly-by, and boy could that bitch move for such a huge plane. Loved seeing the SR-71 in action.

I was in awe of that thing when I saw it as a kid.

Did the planes have jet engines back then?

Yeah, but they had to change the hamsters out constantly. Little bastards weren't made for endurance. Asshole. :D

I had a buddy in the engine shop that let me sit backseat during an engine test on an F-15B. He let me throttle the thing up, and man is that an adrenaline rush to feel all that power. Made me want to re-enlist in OTC an be a pilot.

One of my biggest regrets of my AF time was that I never got to have a ride in the backseat of an F-15. Had a couple of friends that got the chance and said it was amzing.

Did you see it on the ground?

My favorite SR-71 'trivia' is the fact that the thing got so hot and the metal expanded so much in flight that the thing leaked fuel like a sieve on the ground because they had to have gaps in every surface area.

I'd have loved to have gotten confirmation of that in person. That would be a pretty bizarre sight to behold.

:evil:

I would have loved that. I regret not getting the chance to go to OCS, to this day.

Raptor pilots will swear by their own, but to my eyes the F-15 is the prettiest jet ever made and there's probably not a close 2nd. That thing is what a fighter should be.

By the time it retires it will have 40+ years in active service and will probably have been the best air to air combat platform in the world for every last one of them, with the possible exception of the F-22 but even that is close.

Never did see it in a hangar. I arrived literally as it was leaving. Heard the same thing about what a nightmare it was to maintain, though.

On a similar note, my second base in Wichita at McConnell (from Okinawa to Wichita, KS. :facepalm: ) housed the B-1 bomber. That thing was a piece of shit on the ground. They had to hook hoses in a number of places to the wings to collect all the hydraulic fluid that would leak/gush out while it was grounded. Everybody hated them, lol.

This video sucks, but it shows a Saudi RSAF pilot taking down two Iraqi Mirages in Desert Storm. He is driving an F-15...

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And I agree wholeheartedly. The F-15 was a superior air-to-air fighter. The argument could be made that the F-15 was the reason the Russians built the MIG-29

I had not seen that fact, but I like it. But I do know they can mow some forest..

A great debate nobody loses... But I'd throw-out the F-4, F-14, F-16, and FA-18 as something that'll get you plenty of dates for driving...

The Eagle is beautiful in the air, but looks like a ****ing stork on the ground. But...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ile_launch.jpg

The Eagle has a kill ratio of something like 110:0

And the Soviets built the MiG-29 because of the F-16 and F-18. We built the F-15 because of the MiG-25, if memory serves.

I miss the sound of them idling on the ground and roaring past on takeoff. My favorite fighter, followed closely by the A-10 and F/A-18 Super Hornet.

I'll defer to your knowledge. After I posted that, I actually thought about the Falcon being the reason for the MIG-29, but wasn't sure (another bad ass fighter in the F-16).

I remember when we first got a look at the F-117. Everybody was in awe of it, then the pilot basically called it a piece of stripped down shit that flew like a trainer, lol.

The Wobblin' Goblin. LMAO

sorry...didn't see the "F15" part.
thought this was a bigdaddy thread.
sec

Col John Boyd, the father of the F15, F16 and to an extent the F18. An incredible man who was influential to three generations of military officers, and at the highest echelons of our government. And you may have never heard of him...

If we had a few more people a little like him, we wouldn't have dogs like the F35.

"Hey I got an idea, let's make a flying ****ing dodechahedron!"

This thread gives me a big boner for America.

Indeed. It's awesome to know we're this awesome!

They definitely take care of their people! My uncle was a fighter pilot stationed in the Philippines (Clark?) through the 80's.

He's an orthopedic surgeon now, and had all his schooling paid for. He's done quite well for himself, and now owns 2 aircraft for his private enjoyment.

He was just in KC in May to go through instruction and training at Garmin headquarters for one of their newer flight decks. I'm not 100% sure, but I think he just upgraded and got a new bird.

Sort of. All of those are 3rd or 4th Gen aircraft and the Raptor (a 5th Gen stealthy thinking connected predator) and Lightning II are their replacements of course. So it’s just time to move on but it doesn’t make the Eagle less cool-just old. Hell I still love my A-4M but its day ended in the last century. The basic problem with the film is that it shows a post merge hassle (last century air visual air to air) and an Eagle vs. Raptor or in many cases Lightning II has no merge fight to film. Eagles simply fall from the sky and never get to apply any of Boyd’s Ps E-M concepts as they literally don’t know what hit them- doesn’t make for a great you tube. However, Eagles have been continually upgraded to where their guts are nowhere near what the originals were. Great airplane. Same design generation Tomcats by comparison did not get the continual EW suite upgrades and they’re long gone.
ROE however is evolving but since Vietnam it has required a positive Visual ID for weapons release—directly contrary to stealth 5th Gen aircraft design so the merge still matters and that is the 5th Gen design compromises. Boyd, Christie and their acolytes had very limited awareness of stealth and data link or how processors and tactics are changing radar engagements (interesting film from the Black Sea last year with a pair of SU-27s “blinding” an AEGIS destroyer last year-shouldn’t happen from a wattage and radar principle perspective but did due to processors and tactics added to 4th Gen non- stealthy aircraft), so difficult to say what Boyd would have thought of these concepts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighter_Mafia
I’m a big fan of Boyd’s and in particular his OODA (Observe, Orient, Decide, Act) loop for all engagements and Ps /E-M work and taught it for years in my youth as an ACTI and required it’s foundational understanding for all in my commands. His OODA loop or “looping” your opponent’s decision cycle, on a larger scale, is fundamental to maneuver vs. attrition warfare and command philosophies (Mission Command, etc.) In the 1980s this was a debate. Today it is fundamental and can trace a line in part back to Boyd’s OODA loop. The 1989 USMC warfighting philosophy is attached if you’re bored. http://www.theusmarines.com/downloads/FMFM1/FMFM1-1.pdf
Ref note 20 is to Boyd’s theory.

Stumbled onto this this morning:

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the...lso-1719654907

Uh...oops.

LMAO, awesome. Nice find!

I'd imagine something like that would cause an unplanned mud dump in your shorts, haha

The F-15 is a beauty, but this is my favorite looking aircraft:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6_lg_exyzh...khoi+Su+27.jpg

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircr...27-flanker.jpg

Looks at the curves........

That's an SU-35, yes?

I still think they got their hands an F-15 schematics for that one.

No clue, just thought it was funny when I Bing-Imaged it.. LOL

27. 35 has the funky canards.


It's basically an F-15, 14, 16, and 18 on steroids without the amazing avionics.

Posting a photo of the 2014 Indy playoff game is off topic.

"Thunderbirds are g... Eject! Eject! Eject!"

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/...6_ejection.jpg

Speaking of an F-16...

The F-35, touted as the jet of the future, has just run into perhaps its single most damning issue yet — the jet cannot effectively dogfight against the older jets it is meant to replace.

According to a brief written by an F-35 pilot and obtained by David Axe at War is Boring, the new jet was "at a distinct energy disadvantage" compared to a rival F-16 during a mock dogfight.

During a dogfight, planes make use of kinetic and potential energy to effectively carry out maneuvers — a plane with less energy is less capable of fighting well and would find itself at a distinct disadvantage against faster and nimbler opponents.

In this case, the most expensive weapons system ever was engaging in a mock battle with an F-16, one of the planes that the F-35 is intended to replace. Yet, according to War is Boring, the F-35 pilot found it nearly impossible to engage the F-16.

“There were not compelling reasons to fight in this region," the pilot noted. The turning rate of the F-35 was simply too slow to catch up with the nimbler F-16. Consequently, the F-35 also was incapable of adequately maneuvering out of the way of an F-16 attack.

The F-35's incapability to overcome an F-16 in a dogfight, a plane that was first introduced into service in 1978, does not bode well as the F-35 may also have to deal with not just legacy aircraft but also other fifth-generation aircraft in the skies.

Both Russia and China are far into the development of their own versions of next-generation fighters.

Bill Sweetman of Aviation Week notes that the Russian T-50 fifth-generation fighter has better roll and yaw control compared to both the American F-22 and the F-35.

The T-50 is also designed to have extreme maneuverability at both supersonic and subsonic speeds. It is thought that the T-50 could outperform both the F-35 and the F-22 in this regard. Likewise, the T-50 can maintain a super cruising speed of approximately Mach 1.8, matching the F-22 and surpassing the F-35.

Likewise, an unnamed senior US fighter pilot told USNI News that he thinks the Chinese J-31 could be on par with the F-35 "because industrial espionage is alive and well." The J-31 is about the same size as the F-35 but has smaller engines and a flatter fuselage, implying a focus on air-to-air combat, in which it could outmatch the more sluggish F-35.

Ultimately, the F-35 may never need to participate in air-to-air battles. The aircraft is stealth and may be fortunate enough to be able to engage in battles without being concerned over the possibility of aerial dogfights.

However, Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Jon Greenert may not be so sure.

"Stealth may be overrated," Greenert said during a speech in February.

If that turns out to be the case, then the F-35's energy disadvantage could become a crucial factor in future aerial conflicts.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/f-35-...#ixzz3glzG30Oe

Decals were really hard to put on model airplanes without ripping.

su-35 and mig-29

I mean the post before are two different birds.

LMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAO :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:

[QUOTE=Bowser;11614994]Speaking of an F-16...

The F-35, touted as the jet of the future, has just run into perhaps its single most damning issue yet — the jet cannot effectively dogfight against the older jets it is meant to replace.....

That’s the core of the argument: “dogfight” defined. In a post-merge “dogfight,” the Ps and E-M charts tell you everything you need to know. There is no reason to launch to gain knowledge under those parameters. Fight Smart. In a heavy active radar environment, the F-35 can fight its way in and should be avoiding these merges. The F-16 is designed for these merges and seeks them for its survival. The value and balance of stealth vs. agility/maneuverability is really playing out in Naval Aviation. The Navy has replaced most Hornets with new ones and the F-35C has carrier landing issues. The USMC is therefore separating to some extent with their C2 processes, tactics, etc. to be more in line with the USAF practices from the Raptors.
Similar arguments played out when we moved from 3rd Gen to 4th Gen. For example, I participated in the F/A-18 Opevals and my Navy attack pals failed the Hornet in operational testing simply because it did not carry as much or fly as far as the A-7 that it was replacing. Seemed pretty clear using those standards. The “multirole” fighter/attack aircraft and ability to fight your way into the target self-contained was nonsense to them. They couldn’t see the value of that to the ship, C2, parts chain, etc. 35 years later, the Navy is arguing to keep the Hornet- “old dog” argument or do we bet on stealth and more commonality?

BTW, the Russians have proven how good thier seats are fairly annually at the Paris airshow..... The J36 and J37 seats flat work.

An old “dogfight” that might help illustrate the issue. A Libyan engagement. The first video is the merge and where the 4th Gen folks want to fight. For those unfamiliar with the language:
Angels = altitude
Alpha Bravo= Anti-Air Warfare Combat Controller (ship’s radar fight manager and higher headquarters)
F-1= radar missile (sparrow in this case but AMRAAM today)
F-2= IR missile (“Heater” Aim-9L in this case)
Dash 2 was a “switch pig” and screwed up his switches by going to what we trained with (so we wouldn’t shoot each other with “heaters”) and why you hear the angst over a “tone.” The “tone” is cuing that the missile’s seeker head (super cooled InSb) has locked onto something. Video has both inter-cockpit and UHF comms. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBdBV3lXrp8
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2nd video is the same engagement animated and expanded into the pre-merge (30-50 mile) range. An error is that AB is referred to as an AWACS. It is beyond these ranges that 5th Gen guys want to be and engage. Today even most Eagle/ Hornet/Falcon (I refuse to recognize “Vipers” for F-16s since that is an official USMC squadron call sign) guys prefer a fight coordinated via data by a Raptor then by an AWACS to set up the engagements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyORtaFCa3I
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Shit - that's tense man.

I must have missed the clear to engage before the lead took his shot. Really cool videos.

WTF were the Libyans doing there? Apart from being outclassed mechanically, they essentially just kept daring the F-14s to shoot them down. It's like yelling 'hit me! hit me!' with your arms at your side and then....y'know...getting shot with a missile.

Thanks for the info. So the short answer is that the F-35 is pretty much built as a straight up interceptor. It still seems like they could have made one of those and not have it come at the expense of the F-22 program.

You didn't miss his clearance to engage. weapons Yellow/ Hold does not deny self-defense. At 16 miles that fight was over. they went visual at 6. F-35 is a multirole principly CAS aircraft that can fight it's way in a radar environment-why USMC started it as a Harrier replacement. Raptor owns the skies.

God I would loooooove LOVE to fly a fighter jet. Or just take a ride in a hornet or something.