Fatal flaw in QB play
 

Slow day here, let's drive some conversation.

With the Rams moving up for a qb and these young qbs coming into the league taking over for the old guard, I think there are some interesting questions to be asked.

When looking at qb prospects, which "flaws" that they might have do you consider fatal?

So now you may ask, "o.city, define fatal flaws". Well, to me, it's inconsistencies that can't be learned or corrected.

The biggest one to me for a young qb, is accuracy issues. I feel too much of that is an innate thing that either you have or you dont and I consider qbs who struggle with accuracy to have a fatal flaw.

So, which flaws do you consider fatal?

Not running a pro style offense in college. Gimmicks suck

Balls, if they don't have them I consider that a fatal flaw

I'm talking more in the qb himself, physically mentally etc.

I think a guy can be taught to run any type of offense if he's willing aND intelligent enough.

This. The Heisman winning spread option QB has generally been shit in the league either due to limitations with the QB or coaching staffs not having any clue what to do with them (with Cam and Mariota apparently being exceptions. Maybe Tannehill, too).

Yeah, over time. Hell, it takes pro style guys time to adapt to the speed and reads of the NFL. You can add X amount of time to it when you have a spread option guy coming in making the transition.

Having the intellectual aptitude to read and react to defense is far superior to arm strength. The strongest arm on the field really doesn't mean shit when half of his/her passes are equivilant to punts.

1. Confidence
2. Accuracy
3. Work ethic

You can't teach any of those.

I think the pro style stuff is a little dated. The nfl is full of spread concepts, it's not the old 2 wr single tight I back stuff of the old days.

But where I feel you're going here isn't as much pro style vs spread, it's more interpreting exotic defenses and running the show themselves.

In college, these guys are asked to change line calls at the los, change plays due to defense etc.

I think that's the biggest difference.

I think confidence aND work ethic can be, not taught but maybe incorporated for lack of better term?

Confidence comes from success, success comes from prep, so it's hand in hand I guess.

I would probably go with accuracy and pocket awareness. I think you can tweek them a little with mechanics and teps, but when you're talking muscle memory, it's pretty difficult.

So much goes into being accurate. Mechanics, timing, anticipation etc.

Over hyped college QBs with too much confidence. The cocky ones crash and burn.

I don't think you can teach having a natural ability to be accurate, but you can improve it with footwork.

Intelligence
Work ethic
Accuracy

Amen. For number 4: I would have to add discipline/demeanor (on/off the field)

Wilson, Rodgers, Smith, Manning all had these qualities in their college days. unfortunately for Smith, he got thrown into the shit storm known as san francisco and had an entire fan base against him which destroyed his confidence as it would have to any other QB. Now he's got his mojo back.

Yep... just like Kaepernick, Vince Young, Manziel.

Pro style doesn't mean success. Look at the USC QBs in the NFL.

Yeah, the cockyness of brady and manning really hurt them.

Same with big ben, rivers, (insert good qb)

Elite athletes are cocky. They have to be. It comes with the territory.

There's a difference between confidence and arrogance.

Calling Kaep, Vince, and Manziel elite is pure stupidity.

Didn't say they were. Reading comprehension.

It's not arrogant if you can back it up.

Ultimately, it comes down to how well the QB can read a defense. That kind of plays into my thoughts on spread option guys - if your first or maybe second read is covered, run. They never are taught to read where the blitz is coming from or how the safeties influence the defense - just if their first read is open and then find the running lane.

Intelligence and coachability are what QB's need.

If you're having to teach those things to a 22 year old than you're screwed

True.

But guys aren't making it to the nfl without confidence and work ethic.

See kapernick, RGIII and Johnny football.

Work ethic has to be up there. It's why guys like Manziel and Geno never make it. The funny thing is fans deep down know this yet they want to draft those guys anyway. It's basically writing a ticket to throw away at least 2 seasons. "At least they tried." No, no they really didn't. These aren't lottery tickets, they're human beings.

As a Colts fan, accuracy is the biggest weakness I see in Andrew Luck. He can be accurate as anyone for stretches but the lose it for long periods. He's a streaky accurate qb.

His arm, intelligence, pocket awareness, everything else is superb. He just needs to work on being consistently accurate.

ROFL

Getting drafted by the Browns

The Manziel Disease.

This is the boat i am in.

I dont think coming from a spread is a flaw anymore. Most of the nfl uses it now. Very few teams run their full back out there. Most spread the field and hope your qb can get the ball out quick enough. The most important thing now imo is pre snap read, then adjust call. But what holds that back is coaches like reid, who waste a lot of time getting call in.

The past rule changes are what increased the spread of the spread. The league has diminished the power of running backs. Personally if you have a decent stable like the chiefs. They need to splite the backfield with charles and ware/west. With kelce at the line. Maclin isolated and whatever speedster at slot you have trouble containing our speed and extra protection for smith. It allows both rb easier rb tosses our
outs.

would love to see them try. But reid could not call it. We would need smith to call it or convince trent green to come in and help call play plays.

I don't view never being taught something as a fatal flaw though. They can learn that stuff

A fatal flaw is not looking handsome and/or not having a cool name.

So, you can't be successful at QB with out looks and a cool name?

Accuracy is the only one that can't be taught.

But if I'm the one in charge of drafting/developing this guy the interviews and intelligence are probably the most important part of my evaluation.

That is not entirely true, as Tacoman pointed out earlier.

Accuracy issues cane be corrected in some cases by improving flawed footwork.

I think TK13 is spot on with his post.
It all starts with work ethic.

DJ and I have had this discussion before about accuracy. I think you can improve it in the margins, like a guy going from a b minus to a b in terms of accuracy.

But for the most part I think it's a you got it or you don't thing.

Accuracy. Injury history.

The biggest one for me is when a QB in college never had to hit small windows to complete passes. RG3 stands out as the clear cut example of that.

Not to the major degree you cant.
I know you are going to pull out guys you think are ugly etc. That may have had a decent career in your opinion,
But the fact is there consistently aren't guys with names like Browning Nagle on a thrown

John Unitas
Dan Marino
Joe Montana
Steve Young
Tom Brady
Russell Wilson
Drew Brees
Brett Favre
Terry Bradshaw
Aaron Rodgers
Kurt Warner
Steve McNair
Warren Moon
Cool names,solid sounding names,easily flowing names.
What about ugly Ben Roethlisberger?
His last name happens to be of a heritage that there is a majority population of in Pittsburgh or Pennsylvania.

Jets,Fitzpatrick -Irish name: new york has the most concentrated Irish population at 12.9%
Brady- Irish name: Boston has a 20.4 Irish population.(since these 2 teams are so relatively close together in the East, I'm sure thats helpful for fan interest)
Roethlisberger, swiss German name: yes there's a high swiss German,swiss/ German,Pennsylvania Dutch population in Pennsylvania.
The largest ethnic group in USA is German.
Steelers are one of the top 3 most popular,if not the most popular teams in America. I guess they were just lucky to get a guy with that last name,huh?

and if anyone knows ugly,its you

Being chosen by Rex Ryan.

What about the guys that were good looking with cool names that failed?

of course you use the character who was the idiot,trying to call me an idiot.
you are going to call the name and population research pure chance and luck of picking players?

Quit quoting the reerun.

Accuracy. #1. Not even close.

If you can't throw, you can't play QB.

Teams fail on QBs more often than not because they hope accuracy will just happen to them. It rarely does


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Apologies. Just might have to shit can him myself.

This one?

I just don't get the ignore thing.

I have never put anyone on ignore.

If you see someone that you have ignored quoted, it can't be that hard to simply pass on reading the quote.

Not going to stop quoting someone because you ****ing morons can't figure that shit out.

Or you could be an adult and accept that someone has a different opinion than you with well thought out and researched details.

Yes, there are some of those here.

You aren't one of them.

If Pestilence is reeruned, then TigerBob is a vegetable.

Wanna know how I know you're a ****ing idiot?

LMAO

My name heritage research is spot on.
You are forgiven.
You are going to argue that the coolest names ever, like Joe Montana and Johnny Unitas was just pure chance as being considered greatest QB'S ever ?
Star players have star names. Bart Starr.
Wentz and Goff won't be stars.
Connor Cook is a maybe.

I admit being intrigued by this theory. By this reckoning, Paxton Lynch should head south and become a God.

I'm on board with this name theory thing. Think of all the people you know in your lives that have ****ed up names. I bet 90 % of them are ****ing reeruns. Names matter.

maybe,maybe not..its too fancy/complex a name.
they still rely on Joe, Jim, John, Bill,Dan,Tom.
All American boy names for the stars.

no stars are ever named
Abromowitz
lipschitz
Dybzinski
Horowitz
Golsteyn
it has to sound cool

That's because Jews suck at sports, moron

Racist

no,guys have had that name in sports but they never get to be the star.
it has nothing to do with your religious assumption.
greeks,Italians,Germans,Polish a lot of whom were Jewish filled most of the spots in the 30s through the 60s.

but I'm black,remember?

lol I just looked at my banner below

What about 7 time all star and 3 time mvp Alexander Ovechkin? Wait, hockey's not really a sport, never mind......

Hockey is not predominantly an American sport obviously but I'll play your game. The Greatest ever had a simple name,..Wayne Gretzky..and he looked like a blond Angel with a mullet. And when he left Edmonton, they made sure he played in LA and NY. How lucky to have the greatest ever play in the 2 biggest American markets.

1. Not having a work ethic.
2. Not having a true passion for the game let alone for the QB position.
3. These result in not being a "gamer".

These are 2 fatal flaws that expose even the best athletic passing QBs in due time.

If you have the work ethic and passion for the game/QB position they can make up for a lot. Both go hand in hand IMHO. Yes, some talent is needed but not as much as you would think IF you are willing to work and have a passion for the game. Peyton and Tom are perfect examples. Below average in almost all athletic measurables(not talking game stats here) coming out of college. But because of their work ethic and passion for the game they improved their athletic measurables and even more important actually becoming true students of the game/QB position to the point of having the mind and eyes of a D coordinator. Knowing exactly what the D coordinator is trying to do to you and being able change the play or bluff back depending.

When you have work ethic and passion you will always be a "gamer" which is so huge IMHO. Never believing your are beat and always trying to make a play even if you are down 14 pts with 3 minutes to go. You never believe for a second that you are beat until the clock and score say so. All the great QBs have this ability.

You're discounting talent way too much here.

This reads like a job description for Matt Cassel. I mean, if Cassel were actually worth a shit.

Well re-reading it I can see how that would be mis-interpreted. Yes you need talent but my point being Brady for example was unimpressive in college and athletically average at best. And yes the physical talent must be there whether already evident or the potential to be developed. And there is the crux some scouts eyes are better than others.:D

Or Tebow. Or EJ Manuel. Or Ryan Fitzpatrick. Or any other shitty "gamer" QB.

If you gave me the choice between putting my franchise in the hands of Johnny try-hard or someone like Brodie Croyle whose intentions were good, but he couldn't stay healthy, I'd take the risk on Brodie Croyle each and every time particularly because he had the ability to be an accurate thrower.

His career was a mess, but Cassel's was equally a shithole. The only reason why we still talk about him is because he could actually stay healthy.

Always liked football because attitude and work ethic could make up for lesser skill UNTIL you get to the NFL level. To parrot most people on this thread...
1. accuracy, you either have NFL accuracy or you don't.
2. reading the defense/intelligence. Walking up to the line like Peyton did and being able to tell you what the defense was and where to attack before he had the ball snapped 99% of the time is a extremely rare gift that was developed thru years of film study. As much as I disliked him I respected his ability to do this.
3. being a good teammate/person. Players don't excel in the NFL without help from teammates whether it's a receiver that lays out to get the tuff throw or the guard who chips the guy next to him and so on. You don't get the last 5% of someone giving "110%" if you're an azzhole and that is the difference between good and elite or elite and great.

Don't you just hate shitty QB's who's only "redeeming" factor is the ability to stay upright, and continue being shitty?

God, what a curse.

And here it comes.

Nope. Go in peace my child. I've got 5 years of Big Rapin', 4th Down Haley, and an institution where "trust the process" actually yields fruit.

Being Johnny Manziel

Yup.

Deal breaker...

Attitude and work ethic can make up for a comparative lesser amount of talent in the NFL. The NFL draft is littered with 1st round picks that had a tremendous amount of talent but bad habits when it came to work ethic and attitude.

The great ones are those that had great talent and great work ethic and attitude.