Hall of Fame finalists announced
 

Who ya got?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...2017-finalists

Two of my all-time favorite non-Chiefs players to watch are on that list. Tony Boselli was a dominant offensive tackle, and Terrell Davis was such a tremendous competitor. In games either of those two were in, I would love to watch them play.

Terrell Owens should be a fun debate.

Not.

Coryell and Warner. No one else should get it.

We at least know Kurt Warner is a shoo-in

LT for sure.
Lacklustre crop overall though.

Dawkins and Law should absolutely be in the conversation. Both were flat out dominant at their peak, played long careers, and played for winners.

Tomlinson
Boselli
T.Davis
Warner
Lynch

These 5 should be in imo.

In order of deservedness, I'd go with:

1. Joe Jacoby - best tackle of his era.

2. Morten Andersen - c'mon, if he's not in no kicker should ever go in (other than Stenerud)

3. Kurt Warner - most dominant player at the most important position for several years. That's a go.

4. Ladainian Tomlinson - Okay, whatever. He scored a lot. That's fine.

5. John Lynch - Very borderline candidate, but he's the best I can find on this list.

This list is terrible, by the way. Isaac Bruce should go in after Torry Holt, though they're both legit candidates. So I can't vote for Isaac first. And where's Everson Walls and Albert Lewis and Deron Cherry? Roger Craig deserves it more than Terrell Davis, and I'd painfully put Mecklenburg in front of a bunch of these candidates.

I just remember Law for being a complete nonfactor by the time it seemed like a good idea for Herm to bring him in here.

Sorry, voting for Bolts is bad enough. I refuse to vote for ANY Donks.

And if Ty Cobb can get into the HOF, then so should TO. I'll just throw that out there.

Arguably the best receiver during his time other than Moss. Especially since, unlike Moss, he was a much more consistent threat because he hustled on every route and blocked.

I liked Keven Mawae as a center he was a mauler. I remember thinking I wish he was a Chief and I would always trade for him on Madden.

Anyone that says Davis is a dumbass.

I'm gonna say:

Tomlinson
Andersen
Warner
Owens
And uhhhhh I dunno, Faneca?

Coryell
LT
Kurt Warner
Terrell Owens

Coryell would also be a good choice if only for how he was one of the founding fathers of the modern vertical offense.

I'm surprised Lynch is getting so much attention and Dawkins isn't on anyone's radar.

Lynch was fun to watch because he hit the living shit out of people. And he was an excellent player. But Dawkins was the better safety and I would argue a lot less a product of the system.

Joe jacoby then Mabey morten the rest can suck it

Kevin Mawae was a seven time first team All Pro. If that ain't enough, then what the hell is?

Warner and LT are the really obvious ones. I'll go Jason Taylor, Mawae and Ty Law (:homer:) for the others. Doubt Ty Law ever gets in for real. Hall of Very Good, probably...

Well... Lynch and Dawkins were 9 time pro bowlers, so there's that.

I believe Trent Green would be on that list had he not went down in preseason and Kurt Warner took his job. Coach Dick Vermeil ever bit could have won multiple Super Bowls with Trent Green in St Louis.

Interesting take on LeRoy Butler not even getting a sniff compared to Lynch...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/GaryEllerson">@GaryEllerson</a> LeRoy Butler played 43 less games than Lynch but has 320 more tackles, 7 more sacks, 12 more INT&#39;s, &amp; 3 more FF. Why no LeRoy?</p>&mdash; James Moran (@Jiggs44) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jiggs44/status/816472672209174529">January 4, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Will Shields was a 12 time Pro Bowler and All Pro, along with the NFL Man of the Year.

It took 5 years before he was inducted.

I think Mawae gets in sooner because he played in a media friendly market for the Jets but I hope he has to wait a few years.

Pro Bowl has both AFC and NFC, whereas All Pro is across the entire NFL.

Pro Bowl is voted by the fans (1/3), coaches (1/3) and players (1/3).

All Pro's are selected by the Pro Football Writers of America, the same sports writers that select the Hall Of Fame members.

Take out Boselli and put in Jacoby.

Oops. Thanks for the clarification.

Dawkins was a 4-timer
Lynch 2-timer

I'll never, ever understand the Boselli love.

He only played 7 years and during that time, only started all 16 games THREE TIMES.

Furthermore, he played left tackle and didn't protect his QB's blind side because Mark Brunnell was a left handed QB.

If we're talking players whose careers ended prematurely due to injury, Terrell Davis gets the nod all day long over Boselli.

I'm sort of shocked that Coryell isn't already in the HOF.

Is it really a given?

Never won a Super Bowl. Was lousy in the playoffs. Only really coached offense. Do you make the HOF for being an innovator/outstanding coordinator on one side of the ball? Sure, he left an impact on the way offenses are run, but does his innovation overcome his lack of accomplishment, especially when he competes against head coaches who've won Super Bowls?

Tomlinson is the most deserving of the bunch

Tomlinson wouldn't have the success he had without Don Coryell.

Terry Metcalf, James Brooks, Emmitt Smith, Wilbert Montgomery, Priest Holmes, Marshall Faulk and more - All guys that benefited from playing in the Coryell before LT.

LT belongs but Coryell should have been in long ago...

LT
TO
Coryell (overdue)
Jason Taylor
Dawkins
Andersen

I really hate agreeing with you. But this time, you're right. Shanarats offense made average backs look better than they were. Davis was not a HOF back. It is an insult to every running back in the HOF not named Bettis that he is even a finalist.

Davis didn't perform long enough at a high level to be a HoFer imo

I voted Warner and Coryell right away, then struggled for the remainder. I went with Tomlinson, Dawkins, and Isaac Bruce to make it 5.

I guess Eric Warfield just missed the cut

Warner is a consensus HOF and top of the class. Jason Taylor may have played longer and piled up good stats, but he was a stat padder.

Tomlinson seems pretty obvious.

He padded it enough to be be in the mix and I can't imagine an entire class with just one defensive player.

If Davis can't get in, neither can Boselli.

IMO, Davis belongs.

Being in a weak class, maybe so. I don't think it's obvious. He benefited from a ridiculously RB friendly era. Curtis Martin didn't get in on the first try. Roger Craig for some insane reason isn't in at all. These are guys who grinded in an era that was really tough for RBs and they won Super Bowls.

Very interesting.

I hate to admit it, but there's a whole raft of NFC safeties that I can't distinguish between. I'm pretty sure they were all the same guy who kept getting traded and changing his name: Brian Dawkins, Leroy Butler, Darren Woodson, Eugene Robinson, and so on. I remember Lynch differently because he had a reputation as a hitter, but otherwise I'd probably throw him into that crowd, too.

I would take Law or Lynch over Taylor.

Both those guys made a clear mark on the league. And Law was an elite playoff defender. Taylor didn't leave any mark. If Chris Doleman and Kevin Greene took a million years to get in, Taylor shouldn't get in first year.

Tomlinson is essentially Curtis Martin in my mind. Good running back? Certainly. Productive? Certainly? Was he electrifying or fun to watch? Not really.

I'm not sure of there has ever been a more naturally gifted pass rusher than Jason Taylor. He was so tall and so lean and so graceful. He had super model looks and chicks galore.

The problem is that he didn't love the game.

Jason Taylor played the game because he could, not because it was his obsession.

If you could put James Harrison or Tamba Hali in Jason Taylor's frame, we'd be looking at 250 sacks.

Butler not getting in is a snub. But I don't think that should stop Dawkins from getting in. Lynch may have been more memorable, but of that group Dawkins was by far the biggest difference maker. Jim Johnson's defense was flat out dominant and Dawkins was the lynchpin of that defense.

But I actually think Dawkins could get snubbed because Polamalu and Ed Reed are coming up and Safeties don't typically get much HOF respect. And of the 3, Dawkins is definitely the #3.

That's my issue too. Ty Law wasn't the best CB of his time. But he was competitive as hell and elite in the postseason. If I'm a coach, I want more Ty Laws and less Jason Taylors. That standard should work for HOF too.

Hell, Ricky Watters has every right to be in HOF consideration. But he's rightfully blackballed because of comments he made about not laying out for catches.

As long as Otis Taylor isn't in the HOF...its a flawed shrine which I don't care about.




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If TO doesn't get in, it's a travesty.

I'll have to take your word on Jacoby, I didn't start watching football until his last years with the Skins.

I've made this argument about Terrell Owens before, so I'm repeating myself. Was he a great player? Yes, certainly. His stats are phenomenal. But you have to offset that with the fact that he dragged down the performance of his team and his teammates with his constant divisive behavior.

He definitely should be in.

LT

I picked Don Coryell, three guys who played for my team, and then randomly picked Bosselli.

Coryell should already be in there.

Brian Dawkins
LaDanian Tomlinson
Terrell Owens
Kevin Mawae

Dawkins was a beast in the middle of the field before they neutered defenses. Mawae was a great Center for a long time. Tomlinson and Owens are no brainers.

Don Coryell simply refined the downfield aspects of Sid Gillman's offense, and he never won anything.

Gillman is the only real offensive innovator of the last 60 years, and deserves HOF consideration before Coryell.

He was great. Its not that TB isn't a HOF, but Joe was one of the best and its long overdue.

If Davis belongs, so does Priest.

I find it hard to believe anyone wouldn't think LT was a shoe-in for first-ballot.

He's the most productive RB in NFL history, IMO. In 2003 he rushed for 1,600 yards AND caught 100 passes. In 2006, he scored 31 rushing & receiving TDs AND threw 3 TDs as well. He had over 1,200 rushing yards in each of his first seven seasons. He never contributed less than 350 receiving yards when he played an entire season.

The guy AVERAGED 15 TDs per season.

My God.

Terrell Davis can get into the Postseason HoF but otherwise he's really just Hall of Very Good or Hall of Great But Just Not for Long Enough like Priest Holmes, Shaun Alexander, etc.

I'm glad you came in here because the guy was before my time and I really couldn't formulate an argument for myself.

If you're so inclined and you've got the time, care to share your top 5 coaches of all time?

Does Warner have a strong case?

He threw a lot of TDs but also threw a lot of INTs. He doesn't even have a 2:1 TD:INT ratio. That kinda sucks.

He did take two different teams to the Super Bowl but they were like 10 years apart and he had some seriously bad years in the middle of his career.

You're out of your god damned mind.

LT was one of the flashiest backs ever. The moves he put on people were second only to Barry Sanders. Not to mention nobody had a better stiff-arm.

He could leap over the entire O-Line and D-Line from the 5 yard line.

He not only broke the TD record, but smashed it, it probably won't be broken for some time, if ever.

I've never figured out how Russ Grimm got in years ago, and Joe Jacoby isn't in. Grimm was a left guard playing alongside Jacoby, who was a left tackle, and Jacoby was a far better player at a more demanding position. They both went to four pro bowls and three Super Bowls, all in the same years. Jacoby had a longer career as well.

Aside from that Jacoby deserves to be in and Grimm simply doesn't. Grimm was perhaps slightly above average while Jacoby was dominant.

I generally only saw him in Chiefs games, so maybe the dominant Chiefs simply shut him down every time.

But, wait. He played while Greg Robinson was the defensive coordinator for the Chiefs and they didn't shut anybody down.

This is a mystery.

He had the best stiff arm I've ever seen. Always put it right on the bottom of the defender's face mask. Beautiful.

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He had incredible ball control as well. He hardly ever fumbled.

Legit, the only argument I think you can really make against him is a paltry 4.3 YPC average for his career. That's probably just above league average so it's not spectacular, but it was kind of bogged down by subpar later years. During his prime he was good for a solid 4.6-5.0 any given season.

Oh, and he really sucked in the postseason as well.

:clap:

Owens is 3rd all time in receiving yards and TDs. If you don't think he belongs in HOF then I really can't discuss anybody else on the list with you.

Davis should never ever even be a finalist. 6 years is nothing and in reality only 3 years of productivity. I understand he has two rings but so what? Numerous players do and still are not in and they played twice as long.

It's insulting to others that year after year took the punishment to be great. He didn't and is further proof it's a popularity contest and a farse.

It really is farsical.

Davis only had 3 good years. That's it.

That does seem like a weak crop, doesn't it.

I've never understood the Boselli love. Sure, the guy was good....for 5 years. He has the same problem Davis does. That's just not enough for a HoF vote for me. You have to be damn good and damn durable. Boselli wasn't.

Owens is the same no brainer he's been since he hit the ballot.
Warner is the best pure thrower of my lifetime
LDT - He good.

Substantial gap to guys that I could probably ignore and not be too upset

Anderson...ugh, he's a kicker but damn was he a good one.
Old people say that Joe Jacoby was really good. He had a similar peak 4 year run to Boselli but was a productive player for several years after that.

I think Kurt Warner is such bad pick, but he'll get in at some point... six good years with two teams. Let him in, how do you keep the slew of guys out that will pour into consideration over the next decade?

And, regarding TD... I've stopped debating it. The injury unfortunately killed a great career (thanks Griese). If he had played another 3-4 seasons of average football, he'd be a no brainer by most accounts because of the 'body of work' and longevity. The longevity kills it, but there's no denying he was one amazing RB and consistent. Short window, but he accomplished a ton... more than most with 10 year careers.

I had Owens, Warner and LDT. After that, I was struggling to find two more, so I went with Kevin Mawae, who was a PHENOMENAL Center and Ty Law. As much as I like Ty Law, I would probably change that vote to Mort. Guy kicked forever, and holds a shit ton of records. He's absolutely deserving - even for a kicker

There should be a HOF for great players whose careers were cut short by injury. The Hall of Lame!