Let's take a CLOSER look at the defense
 

So many are in panic mode, so many are searching for someone to talk them off of the ledge, so I figured we might as well take a closer look at our potential starting defense come opening day.

Secondary

Nelson (CB)
Fuller (CB)
Berry (S)
Murray (S)


Front seven

Ragland (ILB)
Hitchens (ILB)
Houston (OLB)
Ford/Kpass (OLB)
Bailey (DE)
Jones (DE)
Williams (DT)


Now, there is still time for acquisitions but as we stand right now that is the defense. Is it THAT bad yall? We're all going nuts about it and even Nick Wright was saying "it's the worse defense in the NFL", but hold on, this defense hasn't even played together yet so how can anyone come to that conclusion? :rolleyes: IF we're judging the defense solely on what we've seen in preseason then I think we're being naive. Fuller is a stud, Berry is proven when healthy, Ragland impressed last season, Hitchens is a workhorse, Jones is a rising star and Houston is one of the best in the game.

We have plenty of talent on this defense. We just have to see them all on the field at the same damn time and then pray that they stay healthy. Because man for man I don't think those eleven players are bad at all.

Well...

Yes. They are going to suck.

Fuller is a stud. (really? May be a little too early to judge don't you think)

Berry is proven when healthy. (He is rarely healthy)

Houston is one of the best in the game. (At coverage? He isn't getting sacks anymore)

I think it's time to panic when Chicago schreds you with a b/u QB and HB.

Yes, I agree, Daniel is likely the best b/u in the league at present.

That said they moved the ball on us at will and really didn't run much...

Why do you think they will suck?

Against a back-up defense though.

MOAR THREADS!!!1!

Yes, it is THAT bad. Will Berry actually play and play for an extended period? I doubt that.

You're also heavily assuming that the defense won't run much in the way of nickel and dime defenses, which require extra DBs. Whenever Nelson returns, that will still be an ongoing issue because beyond Nelson, who is still unproven in my book beyond the slot, there is next to nothing.

Everyone likes bashing the 2003 Chiefs defense, and rightfully so, but this secondary looks worse than that abomination.

Bob Sutton

3rd and 12? Align your CB's with a 14 yard pad....

Without Marcus Peters here to bail him out with a lot of turnovers, it's going to get nasty, or Bob will have to adjust.
We all have seen how well Bob is at adjusting.

:deevee:ROFL

On paper it's not bad

But we've sure looked bad.

Didn't Nelson play on the outside when we totally shut down the Raiders for near enough three-quarters last season? And it's all very well picking on the secondary, but what about the front seven? You've said nothing about that. I also don't think the 2003 team had as much talent as this defense does.

They played way worse than they look on paper, that's for sure.

Those first two drives we rotated.

Yes, it wasn't our "pure" starters.

We'll never see our "pure starters" because we disguise our sub packages to look like single high.

Hell, based on our D talent I'll go out on a limb and say the only upset (by Vegas) will be Pitt all year. Yes, I think we'll shoot our whad on the Pitt game.

If they employ that cloud and squat zone shit to hide their lack of talent this year PM will burn them. He isn't Alex, he isn't afraid to make them pay, and my guess is we'll be down early and it'll be a track meet...

I'm glad someone is finally able to be objective instead of the tired "it's bad" comments with no reasoning behind it. On paper it is good imo, and we haven't seen them on the pitch together yet so we don't even know how good they can be.

I'm not worried about the front seven, but it won't matter when Amerson gets roasted within 2 seconds.

Is this a penbrook mult?

Not if Breeland finally rolls into town my brother :D

You ****ed the thread title up, its supposed to read...

LETS TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE DEFENSE

Too many cry babies kept moaning, so I toned it down a little :D

Let’s take a closer look at Clays anus.

It's all about finding a solid #2/#3 after Fuller and Nelson. For the rest, this defense could be a borderline top 10 D. Call me crazy.

You have to find that CB though.

How many ways can you say "wart?"

Pretty much my thoughts on this D as well. We had damn well better hit on that second round pick we got for Peters.

Need to find 2-3 players after final roster cuts who can come in and play meaningful snaps.

I will say, however, that I think Sutton has kept a lot of his more creative blitzes under wraps and they also haven't pressed in man coverage nearly as much as I suspect they will. So we'll see.

Part of me watches them play this preseason and thinks, it sure looks like they're running a bunch of stuff that they haven't been practicing much. They look too lost for it not to be the case.

They've looked ****ing atrocious these past three games. But, would anyone be that surprised if September 9th rolls around and they pick Rivers off a couple times while holding the Chargers to say, 20 points? I know I wouldn't based on recent history...

I want Veach to bring in some players, but I also think we need to see them play a true game before we judge too harshly..

I like this year’s front 7 the best of any year since Houston was playing at his highest level.

Ford will inevitably get hurt or be unproductive and, for once, that’s okay. I really do like Speaks and Kpassagnon. It won’t just be Zombo backing up Ford.

The DL gives me optimism, because this should be Jones’s best year. Xavier Williams has looked good. Nnadi seems to get good penetration (giggity).

I think this is also the strongest pair of inside backers we’ve seen in a long time. DJ made the occasional play last year, but was a liability for the most part.

The secondary is just...sooo bad so far. I normally don’t believe one player changes things that much, but Peters would make me feel a ton better. He would upgrade every corner position. He would take the 1 spot, Fuller would slide to 2 and upgrade that slot, etc. Then, safety would be our only question. We could probably even pick up a vet to help out.

3 back up QBs killed our secondary. That's bad and it will only look better if our pass rush starts getting home. So far they haven't played together damn near at all except in practice so maybe there is a glimmer that we can stop somebody. Not much hope seeing how we have 6 straight good QBs to start the year. Rivers may throw for 500 yards on us.

I'm down with a Jones-Nnadi-Williams base defensive line. I think they'd keep our ILBs clean all day.

We really need Houston to be a star this year. I do think that he's finally getting back into top form, but we need that.

The fact that we're hanging our hopes on 2-3 people who were cut by other teams becoming difference-makers for us - just to perhaps be able to field a mediocre defense - really says a lot

We're going to need a ferocious pass rush to protect the secondary. Fortunately we haven't seen Houston and Jones much yet. And of course, I think T.Y. McGill is going to become a star for us in that regard.

He and Ford combined for like 50 snaps in the preseason. Definitely didn't help the pass rush look as good, one would think.

I’m pretty pumped for Nnadi. I think he’s gonna be special and will be a big contributor by seasons end.

I don't think those 2-3 players make them mediocre, or good, or bad necessarily. I think that those players though could be better than what we have at say CB3 or safety, and so if you can acquire upgrades, why not?

It is my personal belief that the defense will look better week one because they will actually 'show their cards', so to speak. Press coverage, blitzes, etc. All starters playing, ideally, for a full game.

If those things don't happen, well... it'll be a shit show. All season.

seems we always panic in P/S - this year more so - but for what seems to be good reasons.

Pitt has our number and Mahomes won't get any time to pass regardless of Shazier's absence. Pitt's D-line owns our o-line period.

Definition of insanity. Expecting different results when nothing has changed and has actually gotten worse. You are correct.

That is our base defense. We will spend most of our time in Nickel which will be more like.
Secondary

Nelson (CB)
Fuller (CB)
Amerson (CB)
Berry (S)
Murray (S)

Front seven

Hitchens (ILB)
Houston (OLB)
Ford/Kpass (OLB)
Bailey (DE)
Jones (DE)
Williams (DT)

Now how do you feel about the starting defense?

Meaningful snaps doesn’t equal difference maker

We have that now if you think about it.

Amerson is the fourth cb according to reports from practice today, feel better? :D

Imagine replacing Amerson with Peters. Oh wait, we had that

No Scandrick is no better in reality.

The reason to point that out isn't to complain. It's to keep a conversation about the defense in 1 thread instead of breaking it apart. It waters down the conversation. Now a great point about the defense needs to be repeated 3 times in each thread.

There is nothing wrong with your point. Whether I agree or not you at least backed it up with something. But your need to have the thought be seen by everyone is breaking up the conversion that was already happening in another thread.

One problem with this particular on paper argument is that it only shows 2 corners. In today's NFL we all know you better be looking at 3 corners minimum to judge your secondary with how often they will be out there. Really need to look at 4.

ROFL at freaking out over preseason. It's stupid.

Preseason is for playing some snaps together, getting some chemistry and rubbing off the rust from last year. When 1/3 to 1/2 of the D hasn't played together yet I don't see a big red switch to suddenly turn them on and have them playing at a quality level come week 1. And if they aren't doing the things that they plan on during the season I see it even more problematic. The Chiefs starting schedule is such that they need to be rolling out of the gate, not doing all the things that preseason is designed to prepare them for.

The Defense:

Secondary
Nelson - JAG
Fuller - Up and coming young talent
Amerson - JAG- (One of the worst CB's in the league)
Berry - Overpaid former Pro Bowler (worth every penny IF healthy)
Murray - JAG
Scandrick - JAG

Front Seven

Hitchens (ILB) - JAG (paid too much for what he brings)
Houston (OLB) - Overpaid former Pro Bowler (Often missing when most needed)
Ford/Kpass (OLB) - Ford = BUST / Kpass - Up & Coming Talent
Bailey (DE) - JAG
Jones (DE) - Up and coming Talent
Williams (DT) - JAG
Ragland - JAG (Until he proves he can stay healthy)

SO - we have 2 former overpaid Pro Bowlers who are not living up to their contracts. 3 young guys with talent. 6 / 7 JAGS at any given time with Amerison needing to be cut yesterday

Not good is how I see it. :shrug:

I would add Derrick Nnadi to the list of young, up and coming talent. I think he is gonna be a starter one day.

Agreed. He's showing he's better than those usually lined up in front of him. My list was just a play on what / who was listed (mostly the starters). But yes, the Chiefs may have something in Nnadi.

Plus - Dude has this CRAZY stare when looking at you. It's like he looks right through you. I like those "CRAZY STARE" guys! LMAO

Starting defense from that disaster

Bailey-didn’t play
Williams-didn’t play
Jones-barely played..6 snaps
Houston-barely played..11 snaps
Ford-barely played..11 snaps
Berry-didn’t play
Nelson-didn’t play
Ragland-first game action of the year
Hitchens-first game action of the year

As said before, they looked like a defense filled with rust from the vets and a bunch of young inexperienced players.

Exactly. There was a whole lot of miscommunication and guys sucking wind. Even if Berry isn't the Berry of old, he's a coach on the field for the secondary. I see no reason to have Ford out there unless it's a passing down. He can't contain the run and he sure can't cover anyone.

Of course, everyone slows down to take a CLOSER look at a traffic accident too

Will our defense be as bad as they were in Chicago? No. But what it does show is that if ONE of our starting CBs go down.....we're absolutely ****ed. Amerson becomes a starter and gets targeted like Gaines from last season.

FYI Amerson was moved to 3rd CB yesterday with Nelson back and is rotating with Scandrick. Sounds like he is moving to the 4th corner spot.

Just cut him and move Tremon Smith to the 4th corner. Get that guy on the field so he can learn. He gets burned? Oh well like it wouldn’t be any different than Amerson.

They'll cut Amerson.

Maybe they are thinking it's better to freak in preseason than regular season when it's almost too late to fix it?

Maybe?


Could just be a bunch of FREAKS!

No doubt.

The biggest thing I find interesting is that weird stat I read that the starting defense has lined up exactly 1 time in preseason in the dime defense which they ran 60% of the time last season.

I'm not sure what that tells me other than we haven't seen the personnel packages on the field together we will see the majority of the season I guess.

That doesn't absolve them of poor tackling and losing 1 on 1 matches but its interesting none the less.

Maybe means they aren't planning to play the dime defense as much as they did last season, seeing as how they got gauged when they did it

I don't think that's the case as usually the offensive personnel will dictate that, but maybe you are correct.

NOPE, too young and they will roll the dice coaching up a cheaper player.

Seems a lot more likely they're gonna suck for whatever reason. Maybe coaching, maybe talent, maybe both.

I honestly could see that. If he had shown flashes....then I think they would look at keeping him because they could claim that he's just getting used to the defense. But dude has flat out sucked every play he's been on the field. Veach is going to want to show that he's not afraid to own up to his mistakes and get rid of players that aren't working out. I think that's why they signed Scandrick.

Yeah, look at the numbers they usually keep.

They aren't cutting Fuller, Nelson, or Scandrick. Smith has played the most special teams snaps and is a returner so they'll keep him.

That's 4. They seem high on Springs so that would be 5. I think they normally are at 6 so he may make it.

Maybe Reaser?

Redmond?

Possibly. It's very possible I mixed up the 2. Likely even.

I'll admit I'm concerned that they won't be as strong as I thought (on either side of the ball), but I don't understand how anyone can be so sure they're terrible. More than half the D either hasn't played or hasn't been game-ready yet. Others have played limited snaps. I mean, we can safely conclude that David Amerson is exploitable and safety depth isn't a strength. Not sure we can conclude anything past that.

Reid and the front office seemed very confident, even cocky, before training camp. They certainly didn't give the impression that they're working with a 6-10 type roster.

The d hasn't played together or isn't game ready, yet we are to expect that to just what.....happen?

This is why practice and the preseason are important.

The only way i see Amerson sticking is if he's some press coverage savant in practice, and they plan on playing a shit ton of press like they said they were.

So far in preseason i can't recall seeing any "bump n run" coverage from the Chiefs.

And you remember the pre-Dorsey years? Everyone hated the fact that neither Peterson or Pioli would own up to their overpaid mistakes.

Dorsey was a breath of fresh air who had no problem cutting his F/A mistakes.

Well...that resulted in a shit ton of dead cap money and him getting fired. Then, the fans completely flipped on him after being a "balla ass GM" just months before.

So it'll be interesting to see how Veach goes about this.

It's not like Amerson is an expensive cut though, unlike say, Maclin.

They probably won't play together, Houston and Berry have had a possible 80 games together here, they've suited up together 34 times.

I think the front 7 is much better than it was last season, but I'm incredibly concerned about the secondary. Fuller hasn't spent much time playing on the outside in the league, so he's got a task ahead of him. Nelson has traditionally been shitty matching up on the outside, but solid yet unspectacular in the slot. There are literally no other corners on the roster worth a shit. I'm not so sure Berry makes it through the year with a gimp heel once again. Sorensen being out is a dagger back there because what's behind him is much worse. Murray has proven to be more of a liability than an asset at safety and he's too slow to play this scheme as a CB. He's a zone corner best suited for cover 2. Watts appears to have a ways to go yet and McQuay just looks lost.

Veach has to be on top of the waiver wire during cuts or this could be a long season for this defense. It's a passing league and I don't think the Chiefs have the tools to defend it.

That's why I'd prefer he looks for some guys on other teams that may not be in their long term plans and flip a pick for them.

The depth chart shows Reaser ahead of Redmond, but according to the roster, Reaser is 27 and Redmond 24. I don't know how much that means to the long term plans.
The other thing that struck me is O'Daniel is shown as an ILB but he's wearing a DB number. Wasn't he supposed to be a hybrid S/LB? Maybe they have plans for him that they haven't shown.

LB's wear 40 numbers all the time, Eligwe has a 40's number.

When this defense makes it through an entire game without forcing a single punt, get back to me.

:harumph:

Until then, [insert you choice of expletive here]

No worries - It's just August 28. We still have 11 whole days before the season starts. Plus, it's a 3pm kickoff so we even have a few extra hours longer than we normally would.

WHY HASN'T HE DONE ANYTHING? WHY IS OUR SECONDARY DOG SHIT!

Well imo "up and coming talent" doesn't mean they aren't TOP CLASS players, does it? Deshaun Watson was an up and coming player and look what he was doing before he got injured? What about Wentz? No need to downplay a guy just to make a point. Jones, Fuller and Ragland have the potential to be very good players I think.

What are you even talking about? Downplaying what? Watson and Wentz were 1st rounders.

All the guys I listed as "up and coming talent" means that I think they can be good players. I have a different opinion of Ragland - I think he's injured goods and will not reach his potential because of it. We'll know soon enough.

Er an "up and coming talent" is YOUNG TALENT!!...regardless of where they were drafted. That phrase is a complete cop-out. They are either good enough, or they aren't, it's that simple. Stop trying to muddy the waters because all it does is render your argument feeble.