Some things about The Bengals game...
 

Boy that smarts. Can y'all stop calling them frauds now? They've beaten us three times in 13 months.

1. The pass rush was inexcusable. They doubled Jones all game and nobody else could get home. That's a recipe for disaster against Burrow, who, in my estimation is QB2 in the NFL. Yes, I'd absolutely take him over Josh Allen.

2. Chase looked like the same old Chase to me. He's pretty much a cheat code, especially if he's allowed to push off every down.

3. Kelce's fumble was a killer. He's won plenty of games for us with his heroics, so let's not belabor the fact, but that was a really bad moment.

4. I know everyone is frustrated with the defense, but for the most part it was poor execution, not schematic-especially in the second half. Coordinators coordinate, coaches coach, but players have to make plays. They didn't make enough of them. Period.

5. Wylie blows goats.

6. OBJ sure didn't help his case today.

7. We sure missed Thuney in there. I would think that the main reason they're still trotting out Wylie is that they don't want to have TWO new OL in there.

8. Mahomes just flat missed Mckinnon in the flat. Easy first down. I would not trade Mahomes for anything, but it is frustrating that he has this tendency. Just take the easy yards, man!

9. I love Pacheco. That's it. Just wanted to say that. We should have stuck with the run. It was working.

10. The silver lining? Well, it's a well worn saying that you learn more from failure than success. The Chiefs had plenty of opportunities to win this one; make any one of half a dozen 'oops' plays and they do. But perhaps this loss underlines some ongoing issues, and will usher in some changes. I'd rather lose this one now, if it makes them better later on.

Did I mention that Wylie blows goats?

The Kelce fumble flipped the result. We still lose imo even if he hits the 55 yarder

The Kelce fumble is such a killer. That was the difference in the game.

Why in the blue hell was Karlaftis out in coverage on their go-ahead touchdown? That's some dumb****ery I'd expect out of Sutton, not Spags.

It really was.

Did we not play with as much emotion or did they over power us.

it sucked.

And yeah, we need to upgrade both offensive tackle spots, somehow.

Mostly self-inflicted, imho.

Right?!…and he was covering Chase!

I actually missed a lot of this game. My son came over and we were working on a project in the garage. So the few things I saw...were not good.

I hate the Bengals. They own us, for some reason. Are they that much better? I don't believe so...but they always seem to be the day they play us.

Hope we play them again. Offense will be significantly harder to stop when Thuney, Hardman and Toney are all back

Losing sucks. I'm glad we don't have to expierence it very often

Burrow had all the time in the world to work, must have been fun for him. Along with poor tackling putting this loss on the DL.

https://imgc.artprintimages.com/img/...tPerspective=n

100%, Chris

Mahomes was really limping at the end.
Any word on that?

Bengals have the better defense. Until that changes, the Chiefs are going to have a hard time beating them.

The one thing that stuck out for me was tackling, or in this case lack there of. There continues to be a lot of whiffs.

Came in to ask this very same question.

They’ll have Mixon back. They’ll skull **** KC again.

Not by a whole lot. The Chiefs and Bengals have different strengths, but they're very equal teams.

Most of our top competitors will have the better defense as long as Veach is making the picks and Spags is calling the plays.

I noticed the bad body language except for Pacheco, I wonder if they really were sick

Ok, so every week, this gets mentioned, and what I'm picking up is that a lot of people don't understand what a zone blitz is.

You bring extra people in one area hoping to overload the blocking scheme (like, say, the left side of the offensive line) but that would leave nobody in coverage. So you drop guys from the other side into 'coverage'. Now the thing is, the overloaded blitz is SUPPOSED to force a quick throw. When it doesn't, this can look ugly.

The linemen that you've dropped in 'coverage' aren't really 'covering' anyone really, they're just basically clogging throwing lanes. Nobody's expecting Karlaftis to run with Chase and 'cover' him. The expectation is that the overloaded blocking forces a quick and errant throw before the QB has time to recognize just WHO that is blocking that throwing lane and determine that he's got a mismatch.

Pittsburgh ran this as a primary scheme for decades. It's theoretically very difficult to block.

But, as I say, when it doesn't work, it can look really bad.

Yeah I was wondering the same. That’s very concerning. Which foot did he have the operation on for turf toe?

Gonna have to disagree on #4 here.

After getting his shit ate by leaving Chase one on one last year, Spagnuolo should have known better by now. Did it anyways.

Dropping George into coverage instead of playing the line.

Trying to run zone on them.

I think you have to start by looking at the coordinator. When Hurst went out, this should have been much simpler for the Chiefs but they still got fisted.

On that last drive, why the **** did Andy decide to stop running the ****ing ball? We were gashing them every play. Run, run, run, eat up the clock, punch in the winning TD with little to no time left on the clock.

Instead, we go pass happy, end up settling for a long field goal, miss it, and even if it had been made, it wouldn't have mattered. Gave them the ball back with way too much time. The detards hadn't stopped them all day long - why would he expect them to do it at the end? That's some real Wyle E. Coyote shit there.

This wasn't quite the headscratcher that the Indy loss was, because the Bungles are actually good, but still..... just ****ing stupid. :banghead:

and yet, Kelce's fumble was the killer. And Butker missing the FG. Or Mahomes missing Mckinnon for the easy first down.

The game was there for The Chiefs to take it, they just didn't make the plays.

And that’s why I went ballistic

Pat had a wide open McKinnon in the flat. He failed but so what. This loss isn’t the end of the world.

Is there anything Spags could do that would cause you to put any of the blame on him?

Because, honestly, you seem incapable of holding him accountable as the DC.

When Dunlap and Gay made those big plays, I said it was just great individual effort, and you said I was wrong. But, when the defense plays poorly as a whole, you say it's the players.

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I don’t blame Butker too much. 55 yards is no chip shot and kicking was a losing decision anyway.

That was 4 down territory imo (at least from that yardage), so it would’ve been a great time to run on 3rd. Worst case, set up a shorter 4th.

That fumble was a direct result of the Bengals' defense. They held up Kelce from getting to the ground and another Bengal guy punched the ball out. Later in the game, Travis was able to get to the ground but Cincy was trying to do the same thing to him again. They don't mind doing underhanded shit to win the game, like that bullcrap fake injury on the goal line. KC needs to find a way to handle this stuff better.

Well, I mean, they ate the zone alive in the first half. So they went to more man in the second (it appeared to me). They couldn't get home rushing 4 seems like the biggest issue to me. Chase is going to smoke anyone if Burrow has time.

And dropping Karlaftis is part of zone blitz concepts. As I said above it looks really bad when it doesn't work, but we've gotten a lot of big plays doing it, like a lot of Sneed's pressures and sacks.

Our DL got no pass rush, tacklers got blasted off the ball frequently, db's were giving up contested catches. That's not a schematic issue. I will say though I think a good DC would have schemed a way to pressure Burrow by the 3rd game within a years span

Sometimes I think Reid could have Barry Sanders and Emmitt Smith in the backfield and would still try a flea flicker from the 1 yard line instead of running the ball.

It's a problem. The man has low tolerance for rushing often, as if three running plays in a row spells defeat.

Well, obviously.

But it's not a "we're not good enough" issue, it's a "we didn't execute well enough" issue.

We have areas in which we're not good enough; we're not good enough up front on either side of the ball right now, is where I would start with that determination.

Still good enough to win MOSTLY, but not against the other elite teams. And make no mistake, Cinci has beaten us 3 times in 13 months-if we're elite, they are elite.

Well when it doesn't work, you look like Bob Sutton.

Chase should have been doubled up on every single down and the fact he wasn't was a total fail.

Too many downs with Bengals receivers running wide open. Coverage fails.

The Bengals can get in with just 3-4 while the Chiefs can't wait 5+ because there are coverage fails allover. It's easy to blame the player, but should you blame the player when they are given an impossible assignment?

This is Spags 4th year and the Defense is still trending in the wrong direction. That should be flashing glaring warning signals.

Did anyone notice Justin Reid was in the game? I didn't see much of anything from him. Maybe keep that mouth shut next time. The guy has been a bit of a disappointment along with the Jaun and only.

IDK, game was a wash both ways. Mahomes didn't touch the ball at the end of the game. Kelce got mugged. The end.

They seemed to have receivers literally teleporting wide open, it happened over and over again... largely a result of our lack of pressure

Other than that yeah #9 sticks out for sure, we needed to keep Burrow off the field and Pacheco was flexing tonight... maybe keep running him to help the defense?

The single thing I'm really pissed at is we didn't run some creative new blitz packages just for this game.

We all knew Burrow can't have a lot of time and yet we got little to no pressure all game. Spags blitzes were obvious.

Why no blitz from Sneed or anyone else?

I think we tried Bolton once and he almost made it.

Also Burrow and his receivers made some incredible throws/catches in tight coverage.

That last play of 3rd and 11 was pretty impressive.

I would rather not. This KC team can go all the way but the AFC playoffs will all be about who draws who.

Cincinnati is just a bad draw for us.

They send 3 and get insta pressure. We send 28 guys and get stonewalled and he has a perfect pocket for 8 seconds. Its ****in amazing we made the game close.

just for the record on that last drive where Butker missed the FG we ran the ball 4 times and passed 5. We were more balanced in this game then any game this season or last or the year before.

To overly simplify defense... you can lack pressure if you're doing your job in coverage. You can lack coverage if you're getting to the QB. You can give up a long pass if you're stuffing the run.

And to do none of these things is just mind boggling.

I fully expected to have to score 30+ to win, but that was pretty embarrassing to not win in any phase of defense at all.

Have you noticed Reid all season?

Wylie sucks as a tackle....period.

.

Pretty fortunate the Bengals shot themselves in the foot a couple times right by the goal line, or it's a 38 point game for them. They pretty much did whatever they wanted against the KC defense all day.

I noticed him once....and that play (that I noticed him) it sure looked like he was making a business decision. I sure hope I'm wrong.

The ****ing frustrating thing is we actually were balanced on play calling today and all things considered the secondary was good enough but we can't get pressure with 4 and if you blitz Burrow he certainly can make you pay. Until the d line can win 1 on 1 and Patrick tries less to push it downfield they will continue to have success against us. I want these guys in the playoffs

This is exactly what I was going to post in response.

The guy has been invisible. Not that that's always bad for a DB and I didn't think he'd be a better version of HB, but he hasn't made a single mark at any point in this season.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I am getting frustrated. I even turned the TV to NFLN after the game hoping that I would be able to see Reid press conference.

All the safeties are invisible...this defense just doesn't create turnovers at all.

Agree 100% that KC is not good enough in the trenches on both sides of the ball. The troubling thing is you can't fix those things very quickly. And it's been a problem for many years. Even when they won the Super Bowl, they got pushed around by the Niners for 80% of the game.

Are we supposed to notice a FS in this defense?

Amen on items 5 and 6.
Another thing I noticed is that Kelce didn't have a catch in the 1st half. That alone was strange. I couldn't see all the coverage, was he doubled all day?

I like Spags, and they could definitely do worse, but it might be time to consider other options. None of his defenses have been above average so far.

Throughout the whole Spags era, quality QBs have basically had their way with his defenses, leaving the offense with a slim margin for error.

What stood out most to me was the L at the end, not a fan

What TF do you like about Spags?

His best attribute is that he isn't Bob Sutton circa 2017/2018.

Bob Sutton was a ridiculous roughing the passed penalty, and then one idiot lining up offsides, from having a SB ring.

If Jones doesn't get called for roughing after hitting Brady's shoulder pads, and Ford doesn't line up offsides, we probably win Super Bowl 53.

And it's entirely possible that we go on to win Super Bowl 54 as well.

Frank Clark and The Honey Badger have more to do with changing the defensive culture and helping us win SB 54 than Spags.

Other than not being Bob Sutton, and and being the DC when Mahomes put the team on his back and willed us to a Super Bowl victory, what makes Spags so good?

Nothing. He has been gifted with the greatest young QB in NFL history, and Mahomes just needs him to hold opponents under 27 points to win most games.

He was directly responsible for nearly losing HFA last year, and has had 12 quarters to figure out how to get sacks or pressures on one of the most sacked QBs in the league, and still can't do it, even with his blitzes.

And what's even more frustrating is that Andy Reid will not fire him, probably ever.

It doesn't matter how poorly Spags' defenses play, or how badly our Special Teams play, Reid will keep Spags and Toub on the staff indefinitely.

IDGAF how many young players we play on defense, he can't even scheme up an 8 man blitz to get pressure on Burrow.

There has to be someone younger on the defeive staff with the 49ers, Cowboys, Eagles, or even the Titans or Bills, who is ready for the opportunity to step up and become a DC.

Hell, we should have immediately hired Brian Flores in some capacity when Miami let him go.

Or maybe we should give Cullen another chance as a DC.

I just FN hated the Spags hire from day one, and he really hasn't done anything to prove me wrong. I can't stand him, and I don't understand why people defend him.

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I don’t know many players who’d be able to hold the ball the way they were crowbarring his arm/the ball. I need to watch it again but damn it looked like dudes all over him with impossible force/weight and he was 1/10 of a second from getting down.
Yeah it was a sure momentum flipper, but that moment to me is representative of the whole game Bengals wanted that shit more.

I blame you people. I go on vacation for a couple of weeks and trust you all to mind the store, and you lose the top seed. Root harder, people. Wear your lucky jerseys and eat your lucky barbecue. Sit in your lucky spot on the couch. It's not rocket science.

They sure did. They played like the team that wanted revenge.

Perhaps the Bengals will be favored next time

I don't. Cin will beat us again. Our down 4 can't get to Burrow, and Cin can exploit our OT's seemingly at will. It's a recipe for disaster. The kind we have witnessed 3 times in a row now. Dont want to see it a 4th time.

If I'm being positive I'd say I still think we can beat this team, especially with Thuney, Toney and Hardman. But right now they've got our number.

I pretty much agree with the OP but I'd say it's a combination of talent, execution, scheme and play calling .
On talent it's what everyone identified at the start of the season. A RT that blows goats, lack of elite targets outside of Kelce, and most importantly a sub-par DL. I'd probably add poor safety play to that. The DL hasn't been upgraded. Stop Jones and outside of blitzes our DL gets no pressure. I honestly don't know how Veach looked at that line and thought it was enough, maybe he didn't, I think he possibly expected more than, what is it, 1.5 sacks from Karlaftis? I think anyone whose honest would say they expected more. If the other contenders are Bills, Bengals, Miami, SF and Eagles, say, the difference between the talent we have at DL and those teams is night and day.

Our secondary may end up being great with these CBs, but our safeties have been bad this year. I said when Reid came in it would depend which version we got. We've got the last 2 years version of him. Poor tackling, odd coverage misses, just bad. Same from Thornhill through the year. They've been weak links. But that also points me to scheme. Spags is a blitz wizard and he's great at developing average CB talent into solid, cheap players. But sometimes it feels like he puts too much trust in players to just man up against elite WRs. Just bracket Chase for heaven's sake. It's a tough ask expecting a rookie like Williams to deal with him, just give him help and take away that target. I get that Higgins is another WR1 but I do not understand our approach to defending this team, it's the same result over and over again. Offense it's play calling. If something works, do it until it stops working. It feels like we overthought it at times, the run game is working, keep it going, don't second guess it.

In terms of what we can do in-season, I guess we're stuck with Wylie. Who knows maybe Bell comes back and helps as support, maybe Niang magically becomes the answer. Probably it's next year. If Toney and Hardman get fit I think our WRs will be fine this year. Our DL...nah, we're going to have to hope for the best. Karlaftis isn't making a breakthrough this year, Clark is who we thought, Saunders is bizarrely over-hyped, Nnadi is a corpse. There's just not a lot of scope there until new guys come in.

Bengals are still in their golden period of a relatively cheap, elite QB. They can build a roster that realistically it's far harder for us to. But we're close, and I still think we can beat them. It's not all doom and gloom

I don't think they are really an issue. If you look at most OL stats then we are near the top.

I don't think we should pay Brown the money he wants though.

For everything that was wrong with our tackling, pressuring Burrow and stupid penalties; if Kelce doesn't funny we likely win easily.

They should. They clearly know how to beat the Chiefs and have the personnel to do it.

Initial review PFF has the Bengals giving up 5 pressures. Total. 4 of them were by Chris Jones.

Who is this Joe Burrow guy. I don't like him. Bengals are not afraid of this team and it's a f'n problem. Spags needs to get it together.

Yeah a few people have pointed the finger at Jones again but to be honest he's been abandoned by the guys to his left and right. Our DL is horrible and the idea that this guy should be expected to do it all on his own, every game, is ridiculous. Clark, Karlaftis, Danna, Dunlap, Saunders etc is just...not good enough.

I did all of those things. It didn't help. Oh crap. I didn't drink Bud Light! My bad.

Dont think so Perine is just as solid as Mixon.

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All 3 of the games we played against them we could've put the game away. The very first one we played against them we took a kickoff to the house right before half and it was called back by a holding penalty. The game was likely a laugher if that play stood. In the playoffs we had multiple chances to put them away. That debacle right before halftime cost us a chance to really put that one away. Still, they had multiple chances to put them away in the 2nd half.

Today if Kelce doesn't have a fluke fumble we likely burn another 3 or 4 minutes and score 7, putting them away. The moral of the story: gotta finish teams when given the chance. I know it's easier said than done. But it can be done. If we're gonna win another Super Bowl it's something we need to figure out how to do.

On the body language front… Justin Reid really put the D in a tough spot and im still pretty pissed. Right before chases taunting you can see it in sneads face. They knew they were facing a bear and they played a little afraid knowing they were poked. They looked pretty indecisive. From Danna with the weird pull up on the last play to Gay freezing up just a second too long in spy.

We’ve really had 3 games against them where we had something go wrong and they didn’t. It’s hard to get too riled up about it because they are a good team. It’s not like it’s some fluke.

But game 1 the refs were on another level of terrible. I usually don’t blame refs but this game they had a huge impact.

Game 2 was a unicorn worst performance by a mile by a mahomes offense for an entire half.

This game we made a fluke fumble in a game where cincy really didn’t make mistakes.

It’s uncomfortable that we’re so close in these games despite being outplayed. But it also speaks to just really bad luck where the bad bounces have gone way and not the other

I need to find someone to uncurse my Mahomes jersey. Despite my better instincts I wore it yesterday. Never again. The damn thing is jinxed.

In every Chiefs Bengals game, the Chiefs have made an egregious error or two that end up being the difference.

The addition of Hardman and Toney isn't some magical fix folks. The Chiefs had what? like 1 punt?

The offense played very well, and we run the ball down their throats.

This game was lost by a stupid Kelce fumble and a DLINE who couldn't get ANY pressure on Burrow all game long against what once was not too long ago the WORST Oline in the entire league. Our DLine failed us.