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-   -   Chiefs SI: Patrick Mahomes Is Clearly the NFL’s Most Valuable Player (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=346683)

Hammock Parties 12-24-2022 08:01 PM

SI: Patrick Mahomes Is Clearly the NFL’s Most Valuable Player
 
https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/12/24/pa...-nfl-mvp-award

https://media2.giphy.com/media/PjsPh...0RaO/giphy.gif

Quote:

Patrick Mahomes is the NFL’s most valuable player, which means he should be the NFL’s Most Valuable Player—straightforward logic that does not always apply to awards voting. The MVP is not just a vote held at the end of the season; it’s a discussion topic starting in September, for better or worse, and so it gets treated like a dramatic show instead of an honest assessment of players’ worths. Mahomes is the league’s best player. He is the most valuable to his team. That should really be all the discussion we need.

This was clear yet again Saturday, when the entire league took an ice bath and Mahomes, predictably, performed his usual individual medley of brilliance. He was the main reason the Chiefs built a 17–0 lead over the Seahawks before winning, 24–10. He is the main reason the Chiefs are now 12–3 and could play in their third Super Bowl in four years. Don’t punish him because he has done this before.

Mahomes sealed the win over the Seahawks with three daggers. He stepped up under pressure and fired a fastball into Travis Kelce’s hands for 20 yards. He hit an open Kelce again for 52 more. A few plays later, on third down, Mahomes scrambled right and dove for the end zone, on the kind of play that so often ends with you thinking the player has scored when in fact a knee or elbow made contact with the ground. But because Mahomes’s body control is not of this world, he somehow managed to rest all his weight on his left hand while his body was horizontal, allowing him to slap the pylon with the football for a touchdown. It was one of those Mahomes plays that really should make you think, “Good God, imagine if Peyton Manning ever even tried to do something like that,” but Mahomes is so casually brilliant that we just sort of shrug.

Mahomes has made a career of making the incredible look routine.

Mahomes is the rightful MVP. Can we use a little common sense here? Statistically, visually, adjusting for context—however you do the math, the answer is Mahomes. When the Chiefs traded the most explosive receiver in the league, Tyreek Hill, they were betting on Mahomes making up the difference, and it was an extremely safe bet. His leading rusher is Isiah Pacheco. His two best wide receivers, Juju Smith-Schuster and Marquez Valdez-Scantling, are familiar names to fans, but the Steelers and Packers are two of the league’s better-run organizations, and they were willing to let those two guys go without much of a fight.

Let’s not make this more complicated than it needs to be. Is there anybody outside of Philadelphia—or even in Philadelphia—who would seriously rather have Jalen Hurts than Mahomes? This is not a knock on Hurts! He has been great. “I’d rather have Patrick Mahomes” is not an insult. But come on. Put Mahomes on the Eagles, and they would still be having the best season of any team. Put Hurts on the Chiefs, and there would be a dropoff.


Hurts is the Narrative MVP. He is the hot name, the fresh story. Hurts bringing the Eagles back into title contention is a much more interesting story than Mahomes keeping the Chiefs there. This does not mean Hurts is actually a more valuable player than Mahomes.

Dollar for dollar, Hurts—who is still on his rookie deal—is more valuable than Mahomes. But the award is Most Valuable Player, not Most Valuable Contract. The contractual difference between the two of them actually helps explain why Mahomes has been more valuable. Hurts’s low salary gives the Eagles roughly $40 million more to spend on the rest of the roster. This difference is partly why the Eagles were able to add an elite receiver (A.J. Brown) last spring while the Chiefs decided to trade Hill rather than sign him to an extension. Eagles executive Howie Roseman has savvily built the NFL’s most complete team around Hurts.

The Bills’ Josh Allen has also been terrific, and you could make an argument—based on a larger body of work than Hurts has produced—that you would rather have Allen on your team than Mahomes. But Mahomes has been better this year. Allen has a larger margin for error and at times has been a little too eager to take advantage of it.

Who else? Tua Tagavailoa is having a wonderful year, validating the belief many of us had in him when he came out of Alabama, but he’s obviously not as good as Mahomes, no matter what Hill said in the offseason. Micah Parson is a game-wrecker, but he is not as valuable as Mahomes.

MVP debates are fun, but sometimes they are so much fun that the argument overwhelms common sense. You see this in every sport. Voters get numb to perennial greatness and bend over backward to justify voting for somebody other than the best player. Michael Jordan won five MVP awards and should have won more. LeBron James has won four and should have won more. (Baseball voters used to be the worst at voting for the story instead of the best player, but they have become so stat-conscious that they don’t do that nearly as much anymore.)

Mahomes has won one MVP award—in 2018, his first season as Kansas City’s starter. He was the fresh story and the best player in the league that year. Now his numbers are not quite as incredible, but he is probably a better player, because he has learned to manage risk without trying to eliminate it entirely. His two interceptions against the Bills this year illustrated the point. Buffalo made great defensive plays, but Mahomes said afterward he can live with that. There are a lot of great players in the NFL. Mahomes has been the best of them, and he should be MVP.

KC_Connection 12-24-2022 08:06 PM

Quote:

The Bills’ Josh Allen has also been terrific, and you could make an argument—based on a larger body of work than Hurts has produced—that you would rather have Allen on your team than Mahomes.
Sure, you could make that argument, but it would also make you a moron.

notorious 12-24-2022 08:06 PM

Dude needs to be punched in the face for mentioning Tua.

wbbonneriii 12-24-2022 08:15 PM

He (PM 15) is totally the MVP and it isn’t close.

He has the worst talent around him of the top 8 teams, has his team in position for the 1 seed, and has like double the yards and TDs as Hurts…the eagles have so much talent around Hurts…#2 should be Allen and #3 Burrow…

Hurts isn’t even in the Top 6 of QBs behind Patrick, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Tua, Lawrence, etc…you should be top 1-3 at your position to even be in consideration for MVP!

notorious 12-24-2022 08:17 PM

If I'm starting a franchise it's Mahomes #1, Allen #2 and Burrow #3.

Nobody else is even worth looking at.

Rain Man 12-24-2022 08:19 PM

I think the NFL MVP vote should be something like...

1. Patrick Mahomes II
2. Travis Kelce
3. Chris Jones
4. Nick Bolton
5. Tie between the other 49 Chiefs.

I'm being as neutral as possible. This is just the way I see it.

Halfcan 12-24-2022 08:19 PM

SI will probably vote for a lesbian for MVP over Mahomes, so don't count out Burrow.

smithandrew051 12-24-2022 08:25 PM

I like the KC Chiefs imo

siberian khatru 12-24-2022 08:31 PM

Gardiner Minshew may have done more to boost Mahomes’ case than anything today

Hammock Parties 12-24-2022 08:32 PM

If Mahomes wins the MVP, he will tie Brett Favre as the only QB to win two MVPs before age 28.

Favre would still be the youngest 2x winner by about a month.

BigRedChief 12-24-2022 08:37 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Every damn game

Why Not? 12-24-2022 08:38 PM

Eagles back up QB (who I understand is decent, but he's a backup for a reason) but up over 30 against a pretty good defense. You think Henne is doing that with our roster?

Hammock Parties 12-24-2022 08:38 PM

it's crazy to me patrick even tried that

we only needed 3

tredadda 12-24-2022 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious (Post 16687846)
If I'm starting a franchise it's Mahomes #1, Allen #2 and Burrow #3.

Nobody else is even worth looking at.

Yup. Zero doubts that they are not only the three best young QBs and players in the league and in that order.

Darien25 12-24-2022 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man (Post 16687848)
I think the NFL MVP vote should be something like...

1. Patrick Mahomes II
2. Travis Kelce
3. Chris Jones
4. Nick Bolton
5. Tie between the other 49 Chiefs.

I'm being as neutral as possible. This is just the way I see it.

I like where you are going with this Mr Man.

chiefzilla1501 12-24-2022 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan (Post 16687850)
SI will probably vote for a lesbian for MVP over Mahomes, so don't count out Burrow.

Worst. Body edition SI. Ever.

MarkDavis'Haircut 12-25-2022 12:21 AM

Allen has had a crap load of turnovers this year.

He is ranked #1 in Big Time Throws and Turnover Worthy Plays.

That is not MVP play.

suzzer99 12-25-2022 12:32 AM

I love the way Mahomes was pointing at the pylon even as he was still tumbling from the dive. Dude's brain is just different.

BWillie 12-25-2022 12:42 AM

I don't care. I want another Super Bowl. So does Mahomes.

Chiefshrink 12-25-2022 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 16687876)
it's crazy to me patrick even tried that

we only needed 3

Pat wanted to put the dagger in and twist to make sure there ain't no inspiration for a comeback. He's tired like all the rest of us watching our Chiefs toy with opponents for way too long not putting them away for good allowing 1-11 teams(Texans e.g.) play with you until the end. NOT ACCEPTABLE !!!!

St. Patty's Fire 12-25-2022 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious (Post 16687846)
If I'm starting a franchise it's Mahomes #1, Allen #2 and Burrow #3.

Nobody else is even worth looking at.

im starting to think id rather have burrow than allen

BWillie 12-25-2022 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St. Patty's Fire (Post 16688094)
im starting to think id rather have burrow than allen

Burrow also won't suck when hes 32. It's unfortunate hes a douchebag though. Allen is actually a cool dude.

mkp785 12-25-2022 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 16688097)
Burrow also won't suck when hes 32. It's unfortunate hes a douchebag though. Allen is actually a cool dude.

Allen is a doucebag and a whiney one at that. Burrow is much more likeable.

JPH83 12-25-2022 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkp785 (Post 16688101)
Allen is a doucebag and a whiney one at that. Burrow is much more likeable.

Nah Burrow has the smuggest face on earth. They're probably both decent dudes but Burrow is getting the Brady treatment now, lucky as hell.

Chiefspants 12-25-2022 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St. Patty's Fire (Post 16688094)
im starting to think id rather have burrow than allen

Burrow, unfortunately, seems to have a killer instinct that shows up at the biggest moments.

Allen is great, but he hasn’t had that signature postseason win yet to showcase that.

rico 12-25-2022 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan (Post 16687850)
SI will probably vote for a lesbian for MVP over Mahomes, so don't count out Burrow.

LMAO

DRM08 12-25-2022 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 16688114)
Burrow, unfortunately, seems to have a killer instinct that shows up at the biggest moments.

Allen is great, but he hasn’t had that signature postseason win yet to showcase that.

Burrow was carried by his defense in the playoffs last year. Check this out:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr/_/season/2021/seasontype/3

Gravedigger 12-25-2022 07:19 AM

They should just start the conversation with "What non-Mahomes player do you think deserves the MVP?" But that's a pointless ****ing question because nobody cares about the runner up, the only thing we care about is MVPatrick.

chiefzilla1501 12-25-2022 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkp785 (Post 16688101)
Allen is a doucebag and a whiney one at that. Burrow is much more likeable.

Allen’s pretty likeable. Other fans see mahomes as whiny too. All the best QBs whine about calls. Burrow is smug and cocky as shit. But yeah, respect the hell out of his talent and he’s definitely better than Allen at this point.

Rainbarrel 12-25-2022 08:03 AM

...and it turns into a popularity contest. IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU

JustDíqLix 12-25-2022 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St. Patty's Fire (Post 16688094)
im starting to think id rather have burrow than allen

This forum and fan base thinks a bit more highly of Burrow than others. I think its because of the Bengals recent success against the Chiefs. It has imprinted a vision in your mind that most other fanbases don’t have of him.

Bills fans used to be scared of Mark Sanchez, because he owned us. But no one else.

Burrow is quite good. But this forum thinks more highly of him than others. It’s a form of negativity bias.

JustDíqLix 12-25-2022 08:14 AM

Mahomes should win it if the award is for the best player in the league (and I think that is what it has turned into).

If it is for the most valuable player (the player that their team would fall apart without them) then the conversation is more open. For example, the Bills are probably 3-12 without Allen. On the flip side, we saw what Philly could do without Hurts (looked like no drop off from Hurts to Minshew).

MarkDavis'Haircut 12-25-2022 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRM08 (Post 16688133)
Burrow was carried by his defense in the playoffs last year. Check this out:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr/_/season/2021/seasontype/3

I said the same thing last year.

He had five chances in the Super Bowl to finish the game. Failed to do so.

MarkDavis'Haircut 12-25-2022 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDiqLix (Post 16688161)
Mahomes should win it if the award is for the best player in the league (and I think that is what it has turned into).

If it is for the most valuable player (the player that their team would fall apart without them) then the conversation is more open. For example, the Bills are probably 3-12 without Allen. On the flip side, we saw what Philly could do without Hurts (looked like no drop off from Hurts to Minshew).

Bills have a top 5 defense.

They aren't falling to 3-12 without Allen.

Rainbarrel 12-25-2022 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainbarrel (Post 16688157)
...and it turns into a popularity contest. IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU

I'm guilty too. Allen made Baker Mayfield look like the grown-up.

JustDíqLix 12-25-2022 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carr4MVP (Post 16688162)
I said the same thing last year.

He had five chances in the Super Bowl to finish the game. Failed to do so.

Yes. He oscillated between “average” and “bad” in every playoff game they had. Their defense got them to the SB.

chiefzilla1501 12-25-2022 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDiqLix (Post 16688161)
Mahomes should win it if the award is for the best player in the league (and I think that is what it has turned into).

If it is for the most valuable player (the player that their team would fall apart without them) then the conversation is more open. For example, the Bills are probably 3-12 without Allen. On the flip side, we saw what Philly could do without Hurts (looked like no drop off from Hurts to Minshew).

3-12? The bills have a top defense and really good receivers, on top of good coaching. Most top 15 QBs could win there. I think the standard shouldn’t be if their backup could win. It’s if a halfway decent but not elite starter could win. I think Allen and burrow both have a good enough supporting cast for good starters to take those teams to the playoffs.

Prison Bitch 12-25-2022 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 16687871)
Every damn game

What a pic

crispystl 12-25-2022 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man (Post 16687848)
I think the NFL MVP vote should be something like...

1. Patrick Mahomes II
2. Travis Kelce
3. Chris Jones
4. Nick Bolton
5. Tie between the other 49 Chiefs.

I'm being as neutral as possible. This is just the way I see it.


I’ve always recognized and admired your objectiveness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

crispystl 12-25-2022 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkp785 (Post 16688101)
Allen is a doucebag and a whiney one at that. Burrow is much more likeable.


Yeah I kinda like Burrow’s smug cockiness. If you can back it…then [emoji1744]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Chiefspants 12-25-2022 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRM08 (Post 16688133)
Burrow was carried by his defense in the playoffs last year. Check this out:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr/_/season/2021/seasontype/3

When he throws a game ending INT against us I’ll breathe easier.

Him leading three come from behind victories against us in two years makes me wary, though.

I am so ready for Patrick to completely crush him.

DRM08 12-25-2022 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 16688289)
When he throws a game ending INT against us I’ll breathe easier.

Him leading three come from behind victories against us in two years makes me wary, though.

I am so ready for Patrick to completely crush him.

Burrow was great in the 2 regular season games against KC, but I also think KC's defense was terrible in those 2 games as well. Burrow didn't do anything great in the playoff game. That playoff result was more about Mahomes falling apart in the 2nd half against a pretty solid, underrated Cincy defense.

Hammock Parties 12-25-2022 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 16688289)
When he throws a game ending INT against us I’ll breathe easier.

Him leading three come from behind victories against us in two years makes me wary, though.

I am so ready for Patrick to completely crush him.

the chiefs didn't have brandon williams on the field in CIN

if we can shut down their running game that will go a long ways towards making it easier for us to stop burrow

i also think karlaftis is going to pay dividends in the postseason

and still counting on toney and hardman doing their thing

mkp785 12-25-2022 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 16688148)
Allen’s pretty likeable. Other fans see mahomes as whiny too. All the best QBs whine about calls. Burrow is smug and cocky as shit. But yeah, respect the hell out of his talent and he’s definitely better than Allen at this point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 16688108)
Nah Burrow has the smuggest face on earth. They're probably both decent dudes but Burrow is getting the Brady treatment now, lucky as hell.

I don't agree. Allen just seems like a rich little prick. Burrow is a little smug, but much less so than Allen imo. I don't thin Mahomes whines at all, if anything he needs to go harder at the refs and really give it to them. Like what Brady does and dress them down publicly and make it embarrassing.

He gets hit way too often after the whistle. He doesn't get enough calls.

irafreak 12-25-2022 12:35 PM

Mahomes used to get a little excited with the refs on calls and pointing at the defense when he knew it was on them but that's just his competive fire coming out. Doubt we ever see him throw a football at a guy while they're both on the ground like a baby.

Hoover 12-25-2022 03:30 PM

Too really shit the bed today!

I'm sure Tykeek enjoys being on a .500 team.

the steam 12-25-2022 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover (Post 16688642)
Too really shit the bed today!

I'm sure Tykeek enjoys being on a .500 team.

If we keep Tyreek we are probably undefeated

BWillie 12-25-2022 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover (Post 16688642)
Too really shit the bed today!

I'm sure Tykeek enjoys being on a .500 team.

I honestly don't think he cares at all. He got paid and he gets targets. All he cares about.

JustDíqLix 12-25-2022 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover (Post 16688642)
Too really shit the bed today!

I'm sure Tykeek enjoys being on a .500 team.

I was telling people on this forum for months that the Dolphins were fraudulent.

RaidersOftheCellar 12-25-2022 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDiqLix (Post 16688758)
I was telling people on this forum for months that the Dolphins were fraudulent.

I don’t think many people thought they were anything great. Can’t speak for everybody, but I only defended them when you argued that they’d accomplished nothing. At the time, they had wins over the Bills and Ravens and Tua was undefeated.

I’ve never been a big Tua fan, and their defense is fairly weak. That said, they were very close to sweeping the Bills.

notorious 12-25-2022 07:20 PM

Punch that idiot twice for mentioning Tua in the MVP conversation. What a colossal dumbass.

Rainbarrel 12-25-2022 07:49 PM

I'd be more concerned with Josh shooting his eye out

Hammock Parties 12-25-2022 10:47 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fk1qNFbX...pg&name=medium

Skyy God 12-26-2022 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 16689325)

Not that the voters care, but Pat’s efficiency metrics are off the charts.

BWillie 12-26-2022 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 16689325)

Rushing TDs from QBs also count...and good thing Mahomes is also good at that and diving at pylons

FringeNC 12-26-2022 11:13 AM

Mahomes YPA is 8.1 this year vs. 7.4 last year. Amazing consider our tackles and the loss of Tyreek.

Still far away from 2018 when we had competent OTs - 8.8 YPA.

Rain Man 12-26-2022 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 16689585)
Rushing TDs from QBs also count...and good thing Mahomes is also good at that and diving at pylons

Hurts is averaging 4.8 yards per rush, which isn't great for a QB. Granted, scoring touchdowns lowers a runner's average and he's scored a lot of touchdowns.

Patrick Mahomes II is averaging 5.9 yards per rush.


Also, Hurts is averaging 301 yards per game rushing and passing. Patrick Mahomes II is averaging 336.

Why are we having this discussion again?

tredadda 12-26-2022 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 16689585)
Rushing TDs from QBs also count...and good thing Mahomes is also good at that and diving at pylons

Says a lot about the NFL and voters if they value rushing yards and rushing TDs for a QB more than passing yards and passing TDs.

BigCatDaddy 12-26-2022 03:38 PM

You also have the OMG he lost Tyreek Hill and will now suck! Narrative.

Meanwhile the Eagles have 2 top tier WR's.

Chiefspants 12-26-2022 04:28 PM

Voters are trying their damndest to find a reason why not to vote the Most Valuable Player as the Most Valuable Player like the MLB did with Trout for 3 or so years.

DRM08 12-26-2022 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 16689940)
Says a lot about the NFL and voters if they value rushing yards and rushing TDs for a QB more than passing yards and passing TDs.

Fantasy Football rules the population these days. I don’t mess with it myself.

Chiefaholic 12-26-2022 08:56 PM

How about we just make an even trade... NFL MVP in exchange for Superbowl MVP and call it even.

tredadda 12-26-2022 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefaholic (Post 16690461)
How about we just make an even trade... NFL MVP in exchange for Superbowl MVP and call it even.

Why not both? Not sure why it has to be an either or scenario.

MahomesIsTheMVP 12-26-2022 09:36 PM

He could be the MVP every season but Chiefs and Mahomes fatigue is a real thing.

ChiefRocka 12-26-2022 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MahomesIsTheMVP (Post 16690531)
He could be the MVP every season but Chiefs and Mahomes fatigue is a real thing.

I've never had Michael Jordan or Patrick Mahomes fatigue.

Oh Snap 12-28-2022 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbbonneriii (Post 16687841)
He (PM 15) is totally the MVP and it isn’t close.

He has the worst talent around him of the top 8 teams, has his team in position for the 1 seed, and has like double the yards and TDs as Hurts…the eagles have so much talent around Hurts…#2 should be Allen and #3 Burrow…

Hurts isn’t even in the Top 6 of QBs behind Patrick, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Tua, Lawrence, etc…you should be top 1-3 at your position to even be in consideration for MVP!

Hurts is lamar jackson of 2019...just a shittier passer and a better runner. 3400 passing yards and 22 passing TDs isn't impressive. Teams seemingly playing the eagles without a QB spy and QB contain are flirting with disaster


When you make Hurts play actual QB, he's very average.


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