What's going on in Cincinnati?
 

Can somebody explain what's happening?

Burrow and Chase are both eligible for monstrous deals that will re-set the market. Are neither of them happening?!

They said they are committed to keeping Tee Higgins... alright, fine. But the guy wants a $20m/year contract?

Are they going to just hit the snooze button on this for a year somehow? Are these deals getting done?

What's going on?

Mike Brown is cash poor.

There are reports that they've started discussions with Burrow. Chase will probably wait until Jefferson's deal is done.

Supposedly the Bengals and Burrow have agreed to keep contract negotiations out of the media, so we likely won't hear much about that one until it's done.

It's April 4, 2023.

Right.

So why are they trying to keep Higgins? Trade him to the Bears or whatever. Get cheap draft picks. Burrow is the closest this league has to Mahomes right now, keep the roster stocked.

Is Higgins just going to say nevermind on getting a gigantic contract for a year?

They've been on the shitter since the week before the Super Bowl since they had to show us all how much they love Skyline Chili.

Soon....

https://www.aphlblog.org/wp-content/...il-810x477.jpg

Probably waiting for the WR market to settle down after it went crazy 12 months ago

I think that they think this is the year. Keep Higgins this year, tag and trade next year, while locking the other two up. And HOPEFULLY win a superbowl before coming Ochocinco/Carson Palmer 2.0.

If your plan is to tag/trade Higgins, that removes the tag threat for Chase, which you'll need.

The Bengals are not stupid. They are basically going to look at the Mahomes deal and do that with Burrow. He's really the only other QB that you would feel comfortable inking to a long term deal like that, and I think Joe will agree to it. It will just be bigger than Mahomes.

As for their WRs, I think they keep Higgins this year because he's cheap. Worry about Chase next off season. I think they are basically just in run it back mode.

But know this, Bart Veach is basically their GM too, because they are just working off his work product.

They aren't keeping Higgins and have no reason to hurry with the other two.

I think the Bengals would love to do that deal, but I question if Burrow has the dog in him to agree to it.

Keep in mind that deal was a gift to the Chiefs. Mahomes left a lot of money on the table.

I don't think that's what Burrow will do -- and that's not a criticism of Burrow. I just think leaving tens of millions on the table is not something you should expect someone to do.

Threat of a hold out could be a reason.

Deadlines spur action. No reason to hurry it now.

Huh? Chase isn't going to need the tag until after Higgins is already gone.

That's fair. I get those staggered contracts off sometimes.

The Mahomes contract was announced in July. I would expect similar timing for Burrow’s deal.

Franchise owner doesn't have the money for escrow

Chase can't have deal yet. Higgin and Burrow can but they don't have to.

Higgins is gone, I dn why people act like they can afford both.

They can't, end of debate

Why would any mega deal free agent agree to a long term deal the year before the biggest cap increase in the sports history?

A short list of things happening today in Cincinnati.

1. Joe Mixon is pointing a gun at somebody.
2. A person is vomiting up some type of spaghetti/chili combination.
3. A company is doing layoffs.
4. Eli Apple is something something stupid to somebody.
5. 2,000 couples are looking around and saying, "Why do we live here? Let's sell the house and move somewhere decent."

maybe they will all contract aids and die

I'm just not sure Burrow can accept a Brady/Mahomes type of contract because of the off the field/endorsement money Brady and Mahomes earn. Mahomes was like $22M in 2022 and with winning the SB again that will only go up. From what I could find Burrow was at like $2-$3M in 2022 far less than Mahomes.

I'm just not sure the "market" can support multiple $20M+ endorsement earning QBs at the same time. Maybe when Brady's completely go away?

They are trying to figure out a way to cheat the cap.

That can but just other areas will suffer badly like defense. When you win too many games every year your draft isn't full of top picks like they have had.

Burrow and Higgins will sign team-friendly deals. Not sure why this is even a question. Mixon is probably gone one way or another, but his production is replaceable. CIN is on the cusp; they'll do whatever it takes too get back to the AFCCG and the SB.

6. They are prepping for this year's...
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/05...g?v=1661467190

Yup.

Chase won't sign before Burrow (nor should he). Burrow's deal won't be terribly easy to iron out as it's gonna potentially set records.

As for Higgins; really no sense in alienating the guy or diminishing his trade value either way. There's nothing hurt by saying "We're committed to retaining Higgins" all the way up and through the draft.

They don't need to rush anything. Higgins and Burrow are 2024 FAs so they'll at least lock Burrow up sometime this offseason or even during the season. Chase isn't a FA until 2025.

There's a lot of rumors out there that Burrow doesn't want a Mahomes-like deal. There's also rumors out there that the negotiations will likely start at $60M AAV.

Right. They are going to lose Higgins and they know it. He's more valuable to them to play out this year than trade.

I think the chances of the Bengals keeping both Burrow and Chase are next to zero. There's no way they are handing over a $500 million contract to a QB and a nearly $200 million contract to a WR. Not even taking into account the fact it would be impossible to make it work cap wise, I just can't see them making the massive financial commitment. They are notoriously the cheapest organization in the NFL. It's not happening.

They are saying all the right things, but it's damage control. There's no way both of those guys are getting long term deals.

They might sign Burrow and try to keep the 1st extension year low so they can tag Higgins for 1 year before letting him walk but yeah, they can't keep both him and Chase.

I know it might sound ridiculous, but personally I'd sign Higgins to the extension and trade Chase next year for a haul.

Fat chance in hell Burrow signs a team friendly deal

Thats actually not crazy, minus the fact Burrow probably going to roll with his homie.

Waiting for Akili Smith to get off their salary cap

Are you known aroud here as the guy that doesn't ever know what the **** he's talking about?

It also makes Higgins contract expensive as hell for the team trading for him.

Why not? Burrow suggested a few months ago that he understood that taking the most money would hamstring the team, and that he not only wanted to stay in CIN but he wanted to help the team win. That sounds ana awful lot like he'd be willing to take a team-friendly deal. Maybe not quite as team-friendly as what Pat took, but I think there's a some room in between what Mahomes signed for and what would be a selfish contract.

It's only April dude

Do alphas like I intimidate you?

If they don't keep those two, Brown should sell the team.

I'd be FLOORED if they don't.

You don't break up a duo that young and that accomplished. That's Montana/Rice waiting to happen.

The Chiefs picked their path and it was Mahomes/Kelce. Right, wrong or otherwise, that's the decision they made and that's why they broke up Mahomes/Hill.

I mean I guess you could see them keeping Burrow/Higgins instead but man I doubt it. Higgins is a very good WR but he's not going to the HoF. Chase, on any reasonable curve uninterrupted by injury, absolutely will.

You don't take two guys in their early 20s who are tracking towards HoF resumes and break them up. You scorch the earth around them if you have to but that's the foundation of your franchise for the next decade.

Even Mike Brown knows better.

They'll get both deals done.

Then he is going to have to sign short term contract because of the GTD money

True. I do also get keeping your QB happy but man it makes so much more sense from a business perspective to go the other way.

Yeah but this would be like trading Kelce for picks..... Mahomes might kill someone in the front office

Higgins vs. Chase seems like one of those situations where you're better served paying a little extra for the pick of the litter (and that's before you consider the Chase/Burrow chemistry going back to LSU).

I dunno - basketball is where you usually really see this kind of thing surface, but what you'll find is that a player who gets slightly less than a max deal is usually about half as good as guys who get a max deal. You're paying 90% as much for maybe 60% the player.

Obviously there aren't truly max deals but there are precedents that teams are loath to blow out of the water. I think Higgins gets a deal at/near Hill when he signs his LTC and I think Chase gets one just a little better than that.

I mean sure there's a difference in draft return, but is it enough to justify tying yourself to a very good WR rather than a potential generational talent in Chase? I don't see it.

Give me Chase at 110% of what Higgins makes plus a 1st rounder over Higgins at a slightly reduced figure and two first rounders.

I believe it was Bill Veeck that said "It's not the price of superstars that will kill a team; it's the high price of mediocrity..." I don't think that Higgins is mediocre by any means but I do think that the same principal applies. Chase is worth what he costs - pay the guy.

All Cincinnati operations have been suspended until the mayor recovers from his frontal lobotomy.

I agree. But if there is a mother****er that would choose the path of the dumb**** it would be Brown, who, mind you, traded Chad Johnson and Carson Palmer. The only real players they'd had in decades.

That that twat does it twice, Cinci should burn him at the stake.

All the more reason I'd think they'd opt for keeping Higgins and trading Chase. Higgins will cost less. Chase will gain you more draft capital. That said, DJ and BleedingRed aren't wrong. The obvious solution is to keep Chase if the costs aren't substantially different.

I know what they're NOT doing in Cinci today....


Polishing their Lamar Hunt or Lombardi trophies.

The decision is easy.

Pay Burrow.
Keep Chase.
Trade Huggins for picks.

If Burrow is elite as you believe he is (and he is), you trust him to make hay with another drafted WR or some second line WRs.

Whatever. They’ll do whatever it takes at this point.

They got to the SB after dominating KC in the AFFCG 2021. And were within a pube of doing it again in 2022. They know they have the team to beat the Chiefs right now, and they have the record to prove it.

It won’t be hard to convince the owner to go all-in on that team to get a SB before KC can restock the team with real WR talent.

That concrete dildo is about to be jammed all the way up Minnesota and Cincy's ass.

Dominating? Every game has been 3 pts.

You trade higgens and use the picks to reload.

Do what?? Nothing dominant about any of Cincy's wins over the Chiefs. The biggest question for them will be what happens to their defense when they finally start paying big money to Burrow, Chase, Orlando, and whoever else on the offensive side of the ball.

The Cincy defense has done a pretty amazing job in the Playoffs the last two years. Never given up more than 23-24 points in any Playoff game, something that cannot be said for any other team that was in contention to win a ring the last couple years. They held an explosive Rams offense to 23 points, held an explosive Buffalo offense to 10 points, and held an explosive Chiefs offense to 23-24 points (2 games).

So what happens to this great defense when the offensive side of the ball is finally getting paid instead of a bunch of rookie contracts?

Too early for a turkey drop

I know what we would be doing if I was in Iowa...

KC is 1-3 vs. CIN last I checked. CIN has outscored KC something like 20-6 in the 4th quarter over the last 3 games. Those are facts. And let's not forget that CIN was down 3/5 starting OLs in the last one. So let's not pretend that KC just dominated the last AFCCG.

I'll keep saying it. CIN has been able to stall the KC offense repeatedly, and the lack of talent in the WR group has been glaring in the last two matchups. The KC defense has done its job over the last three games vs. CIN, but the offense hasn't been able to even score to their season average.

And right now, we have one returning WR that we can probably depend on in MVS, and the rest of the room is pretty much wishful thinking.

We HOPE Toney can stay healthy, and then we HOPE he can perform reliably for a season.

We HOPE Skyy can triple his production and score more than zero TDs.

We HOPE Justyn and John can do anything in the regular season. Anything would be better than zero.

We HOPE McKinnon returns and performs at about the same level.

We HOPE Justin Watson returns and at least gives us the same level of production.

We HOPE whoever we draft can produce at least as well as Hardman did in his first season.




But right now, the Chiefs WR room is far less talented than it was in 2022, that can't be argued. And no real answers either in the TE or the RB rooms at the moment. Just more hopes, except for Pacheco.

CIN doesn't have to hope. They don't even need their defense to perform at the same level as they did in 2022. They need to simply be a little more efficient on offense, play average on defense, and they'll be able to notch another W.

From their perspective, I don't know what else they'd be thinking. They have the upper hand, and the stats as well as the results to prove it. If their OTs had been healthy, chances are CIN goes to the SB. If I were their FO/ownership that's what I'd be thinking.

Interesting that you make excuses for the Bengals injuries, but no excuse for the Chiefs? KC's receiver group was wiped out with injury very early in that game and their QB was on a sprained ankle that happened 7 days before the game. Tight End also played with a bad back in that game too. Injury stuff goes both ways. It is a fact that the Chiefs have had the lead in the 4th quarter of all 4 matchups, so I don't think you can say the Bengals have "dominated" them as you said in your earlier post.

I do think they will do everything they can to backload the hell out of Burrow & Chase's contracts, which will potentially allow them to keep that strong defense for the next 4-5 years. They were lucky the Cardinals were dumb enough to hire the Philly DC instead of the Cincy DC as well, so Cincy keeps the same great defensive coach leading that side of the ball...for now.

You're talking about one game; I'm trying to explain how the head-to-head matchups have gone over the last 4 games. you're right, injures happen. But they also kind of cancel over the course of several games. The fact of the matter is that CIN has beaten the Chiefs more than the Chiefs have beaten the Bengals. I can't really pretty that up, it is what it is.

And how can I realistically say that the Chiefs now have the upper hand with less talent in the WR room than we had in the last four matchups? If we were talking about two other teams, would you be arguing with me?

You said Cincy dominated in the AFC title game last year, which isn't true. They won by 3 points. KC was leading in the 4th quarter of all 4 games. The Bengals have not dominated any of the games. If you're having to come from behind in the 4th quarter to win, that's not dominance.

Cincy is one of the best teams in the league for sure. It remains to be seen what happens to their defense over the long haul when they finally have to pay their best players on the offensive side of the ball, but they will kick that can down the road as long as possible. They have maybe the best DC in the league right now and I'm curious to see how long they can keep him.

You forgot something.

CIN lost two of their best players on defense in safeties Vonn Bell and Jessie Bates III. They are hoping last year's first-round pick of Dax Hill can effectively replace an All-Pro after playing in 2 games last year and that they can get a rookie to play at a Pro Bowl level to replace the other. That's a tall task in a secondary that otherwise sucks.

In the 2021 AFCCG they dominated the Chiefs in the 2nd half, allowing just one FG.

In the 2022 AFCCG, they allowed just a TD and a FG, and if not for a late INT and a timely penalty, in spite of the fact that they were down 3/5 OLs including both OTs, they might've have won that one.

But if the word "dominate" bothers you, fine, I retract that word. Not to put too fine a point on it, CIN has had KC's number over the last four meetings. And the regular season game last season should've been a minor blowout for CIN, if not for things like Boyd inexplicably dropping a sure TD.

And you're right, CIN has a great defense, which has been a big part of the problem. But KC has also lacked receiving talent recently, and I think that it's showed. And I also think that the way to beat CIN (and BUF, might as well throw them in there since they beat us last year) is to acquire better WRs. Or a top-flight TE. Whatever. More weapons. Our defense is doing about as well as you could ask for in the last three. It's the offense that hasn't played well enough.

All I'm saying is that the margin is probably razor thin, and they're probably the better team on paper if we don't get a very talented WR in the building and CIN keeps both Chase and Higgins in 2023.

Domination is what they did to Buffalo, 27-10 final score and probably could have been a lot worse than that for Buffalo if the Bengals were not so focused on running out the clock in the 2nd half. :evil:

I didn't forget; I'm not sure it's going to be meaningful. Sure, those are two very good safeties. But what if all we bring to the game is MVS, Toney, Skyy and a rookie? Which Chiefs receiver can we depend on to make them pay for letting those guys go? Which would you be willing to bet real money on? Or are you among those that believe that KC can beat CIN with the likes of Marcus Kemp starting? We're just that good? Or is CIN just really not very good, and we shouldn't be concerned about the state of the WR room?

I'm not being negative; I'm trying to be realistic. I'm a little surprised that I'm one of the few.

Lol, okay, I agree.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with those guys.

The bigger thing in this offseason for Cincy was that they dodged the bullet of losing their DC, who does a hell of a job getting his guys to play at a very high level. I am curious to see if someone else will finally give him a HC spot eventually. Arizona damn near gave him the job.

What I'm trying to relay is that Cincinnati took a huge hit to be able to defend our passing game. Losing those two guys cannot be underscored enough times. They were the best pair of safeties in the NFL.

So, for all the worries about our WRs getting open against them, they have all the worries about defending those WRs. We're both going to be young there and whoever gets the breakout guys is probably going to the SB again.

Let's hope its us. They have a 1st rounder in Dax they are banking on. We have a 1st rounder Toney we are banking on. It's going to be interesting.

Plus, Veach likely adds a couple of guys to the roster via the draft. With as many picks as we had, I'd pretty well take it to the bank.

I'm not as worried about replacing what JuJu provided as I am replacing what McKinnon provided at this point.

Well, we beat them with MVS going 6/116 and a TD with Marcus Kemp lining up on the other side, and that's WITH the two excellent safeties and Mahomes on one leg.

So no, I don't think you are being particularly realistic.

I was REALLY nervous, dejected even, when we got down to MVS, Moore, and ****ing Kemp. I figured-that's it. We just don't have enough horses here, and with Mahomes on one leg, it's not enough.

I was wrong.

Pretty easy to just re-sign Mckinnon. He and Pacheco make a great pair.

I'm hoping so and really question why that isn't done yet. It's significant passing game production.

yeah, instead, they hired the DC that Andy put ****ing clown shoes on.

Hilarious.

I'm so glad I'm not an Arizona fan.

Plus Kelce was struggling with a back problem in that game too. The receiver group was utterly devastated with injury problems. They still moved the ball pretty dang well on a very good defense, even with Mahomes & Kelce nowhere close to 100%.

Cincy even got an absolute gift of a flukey turnover on the Mahomes fumble. Their defense did nothing to cause that shit, the ball just slipped out of his hand. If anything, his ankle problem helped the Bengals recover it because Patrick couldn't run like he normally does.

I'm sure they've been in contact. I mean, it just makes no sense for him to do anything else. Nobody's going to pay him, he's been here, he's won a ring, he's in the twilight of his career and this team gave him a shot when nobody else did. Using him the way we do extends his career, and he gets to win.

I'm sure they told him to sit tight, take the money if someone offers it, but they'll circle back and grab him after the Jones extension.

I could be wrong, but I just seriously doubt it.

Bungholes lost their two starting safeties and their starting tight end in free agency. The losses of Bell and Bates are significant. Their defensive back end will be nothing like we saw the past two seasons.

The reason MVS went off wasn't because he suddenly figured out how to run great routes. the CIN defense treated him like a decoy, and Andy made them pay for it. That's not going to happen again.

You weren't wrong; we all thought the same thing, because that's called reality. Andy went Andy, Pat did Pat things and we got a little lucky with a late call or two. Oh, and Toub. Coach Toub did what everyone didn't want him to do (fans anyway) and let Skyy field/return a punt. Credit where credit is due.

Am I the only one that looks at Burrow and thinks maybe he's possibly not as good as he's hyped up to be? Give him only one #1 receiver instead of 2 and another damn good 3rd option and I think he comes back down to earth.

Not to argue, but we both thought exactly the same things about both JJSS and Hardman.

Just the fact we haven't heard a single damned thing about McKinnon makes me uneasy. Especially because in the middle of the season, when JuJu suddenly just disappeared because everyone figured out he couldn't beat man, Jerrick became our other receiver, accounting for more than 500 yards receiving and 10 TDs.

Not that I'd expect him to come back and do quite as well, but 75% of that would probably make things a lot easier.