So Just What Do We All Want Stadium-Wise?
 

This is a Chiefs board, so I know and expect to see some obvious bias toward the Chiefs over the Royals in this forum. This is weighted even moreso towards the Chiefs favor due to their incredible run over the past six years.

I know we all love the Chiefs, but there are a lot of Royals fans too. KC has historically been a very, very good sports town, and great host for the Chiefs and Royals. Weird that the teams never seem to be good at the same time, though maybe that will change if BWJr and the boys in blue can get something going during what is now the Mahomes Era.

But I digress... sorry, I get long-winded sometimes. What do we all want stadium-wise going forward? Enough of this sky is falling horseshit where both teams are getting their ducks in a row to get the hell out of KC. I don't buy that for a second. Maybe you don't agree, that's fine. But I really want to know what the people of this board would like to see happen, because there will be another vote within the next year or two with future proposals. So what do we want these proposals to ideally be?

For them to be close enough for me to take grandkids who are yet to be born to games. (both teams)

I hope:
Royals move to Johnson County and they pay the taxes.

Chiefs stay where they are and expand (with better plans than the current bullshit)

What we got

Welcome to the next 7 years of threads

Thanks Jackson County

Apologies if it seems like I'm going down that road. For all the threads and thoughts I've seen get thrown around over the past week and months, I've never seen something where we say what we actually want. Was hoping this might be a bit more positive than the back and forth ugliness. It's probably wishful thinking.

Blackjack and hookers

Serious question: What do you want in these plans? Because to me Arrowhead is pretty much perfect as-is.

Better looking Cheerleaders!

More statues outside to fight by

A Renovated Arrowhead and a Downtown Ballpark.

Basically exactly what just got voted down.

I'd like a well renovated Arrowhead with actually decent facilities, etc. but if you're gonna be getting close to a billion, you may as well do a completely new stadium just from a financial standpoint. Otherwise you spend that much and do another renovation in 15 years.

I love Arrowhead and the gameday experience. And I'm not a Jackson County taxpayer.

But I'm also realistic and Arrowhead is on borrowed time. That being the case, there's no sense in limping along here. The stadium was built in such a way that it just cannot continue to keep pace with other franchises through renovation. And if we are going to be (and should be) a crown jewel franchise for the next 10-15 years (and hell, we weren't dogfood before Mahomes), that's not tenable.

So I think I'm ready for a new stadium. And if that stadium is going to be done well, it's not going to be in Jackson County. So if that means a move to Wyandotte, I'll set my anti-Kansas bias aside because it's probably best for the Chiefs long-term.

So include me in the 'new stadium near the Legends' crowd. Or wherever it will need to go to get the kind of revenue that would make building a true state of the art stadium worthwhile for Hunt and the residents of wherever it's gonna go...

I expect that means a dome for a future SB or other events. And I hate that. So my compromise would be one where there are rules in place for when the roof can be used. I can't recall which stadium did that, but there's a baseball stadium somewhere that has it written into the lease that the roof cannot be closed on days where the weather is between X and Y degrees and there's no rain.

Would I miss the snow games? Yeah. Would I miss rain and frigid cold? No, not really. And again, that's going to mean a hell of a lot more revenue and thus more willingness by Hunt to pull out some of the stops and make this a stadium worthy of replacing an icon.

What I don't want to see is what the Cardinals did in STL. They tore down Busch II and replaced it with a generic retro ballpark that just isn't special in any way because they did it on the cheap. Man I'd hate to see that (and I worry that's what's in store for Kaufman, which is just an incredible place to catch a baseball game to this day. They're going to replace it with something that isn't as good)

How come Green Bay is perfectly able to renovate Lambeau and keep it relevant but Arrowhead is on borrowed time and there’s simply no way to keep it viable?

And a mother ****ing rolling roof!!! That’s right!! I said it!!

So Just What Do We All Want Stadium-Wise?
 

Level Bally’s and put the Royals on the riverfront, near the current stadium. Activate the riverfront and what a sight coming in town from the north.

Keep Arrowhead where it is at. Modernize the finishes, but don’t screw with the seating. But bring back the rolling roof that will cover the stadium or a performance pavilion of sort adjacent to it.

So I have a question for you and other folks on here who say new stadium in Kansas. A quick look at the numbers and if I'm wrong please correct me. The total Kansas 2023 budget was 9 billion, Kansas City's budget was 2 billion, Missouri's was 44 billion.

What would stop a new stadium being built in say Lee's Summit? If it comes down to money Kansas is out gunned by a wide margin

Most of what they've done are the sort of superficial improvements that the Chiefs made, what, 10 years ago? 15? Something like that. The Rivers fumbled snap game was the unveiling.

And hell man, maybe it was just built better. Or is in a better location.

It's just silly to keep throwing a billion dollars every 15 years or so at a stadium in an area that simply is NOT going to develop. It doesn't make sense for anybody involved. It's why Clark was only willing to pay 1/3 of that and the Jackson County taxpayers weren't willing to pay 2/3 of it.

They know that it's throwing good money after bad.

Um, I'll take hookers and blow for 1000, Alex,

All- you-can-eat pork belly burnt ends in 31 flavors and bottomless coffee cups filled with bourbon.

Cool. Keep it in Missouri then. All the better.

Provided that you can find a location where business leaders are willing to invest and actually build the area.

Are they gonna spin the wheel and take their chances in Lee's Summit? Honestly, I kinda doubt it.

I have no particular affinity for the Legends project specfically. I just want a damn nice new stadium if we're going to replace Arrowhead. And if that's the case, it's going to have to be somewhere that Clark and the local taxpayers will see a return. If you have a better spot, have at it.

(As for the Missouri Budget - that's not terribly relevant as St. Louis damn sure isn't chipping in to build a stadium in KC. And I don't think there's that same level of antipathy and/or regional loyalty in Kansas, though I could be wrong)

Aren't you looking at probably a billion dollar outlay here for Arrowhead alone?

I dunno man, I just don't see Hunt (or Jackson County) signing off on that.

All the major sports architecture firms are in KC. They aren't going to butcher their hometown stadium.

The Braves new stadium is a pretty sweet set-up.

It’s part of an entire entertainment district with shops/restaurants/hotels, called The Battery.

It’s in the suburbs, not downtown, but people don’t work as much downtown in offices anymore… especially in the summer… during this work from home era.

The Battery in Atlanta also has apartment homes nearby.

I'm with you. An unpopular opinion but that was another reason I wasn't motivated to vote "yes" on the vote that just failed. Spending hundreds of millions on Arrowhead is just throwing good after bad. As you stated Arrowhead simply cannot keep up with the current stadiums.

Lee's Summit is probably a bad example. Even if we separate the Royals from Chiefs which absolutely needs to happen we're stuck in the same spot where the Royals need to be the first domino to fall. Wether its they move to Kansas or the city bites the bullet and funds the Royals stadium downtown themselves. That certainly can be done but I'm not sure KC has the local leadership in place to make it happen.

But let's say the city does end up funding the Royals downtown. You then put the Chiefs on the ballot which IMO passes.

Sure Kansas could sweep in right now and steal one of them by throwing billions. Let's not forget there still is a lease in place for another 7 years. Kansas is going to throw billions and the teams are going to take on hundreds of millions on a lawsuit? Doubtful

Yup let Populous & Burns McDonnell do their thing but please for the love of **** so NOT put Jeff Roe in charge of this ever again. For as good of a job he did with Ted Cruz & the Virginia Gov. There's Ron DeSantis and Amanda Atkins 2X. He is simply a liability the teams need to go outside the KC area for a PR team next time

Crazy idea but stay with me!

Move Royals downtown. Then instead of having the millions in the budget to take Royals stadium out just turn it into the practice/viewing stadium. Give players A+ facilities instead of F like we have now.

The way they can fund it is renovate to add a huge screen that will broadcast the live game next door in Arrowhead!

People will come tailgate with everyone else but come game time pay a fraction of the cost to come into Royals stadium and watch the live game on a huge Jumbotron screen. Still have all the beer and food vendors/restaurants like a real game.

Not only do you get away from the expense of demoing the stadium but you turn it into a revenue stream to give players state of the art facilities and help renovate Arrowhead.

Build the rolling roof and upgrade a few other thing at Arrowhead and call it a day!

Yeah I don’t agree with you on Busch. I think it’s a really solid ballpark. Huge improvement over old Busch which was just a cookie cutter with a crown.

Kauffman is fine but without the fountains and the scoreboard there’s nothing about the stadium itself that sticks out to me as some amazing place to watch a game

But to each their own.

Lee’s Summit is in Jackson County. The only hope on the Missouri side would be Clay County.

A brand new Arrowhead with modern tech.........

and more tailgating.I have been to many stadiums and imagine I am biased but when you pull up smell and see all that smoke. Then the folks always friendly. Great atmosphere and seating so just build a new Arrowhead.

A dome.

I would love for the Royals to move wherever, downtown, or by the speedway, etc. and then I want the K taken down, and a brand new version of Arrowhead built where it stood.

I would like to use the original plans for Arrowhead, and make all the desired upgrades, with a retractable roof.

I wonder if with foldable panels, they could use the retractable roof as advertising, like the sphere, but on a much smaller scale.

I think Arrowhead is iconic, so nice we built it twice, and we need a retractable roof at a minimum.

It won’t happen, but I wish they would just tear down everything in the West bottoms area, and drop the new Arrowhead in there, and have the Royals go to the East Village site.

This is exactly the kind of well-thought out, well-written post that I’m going for, and most of my thoughts on this align with DJ. Though I’d like to know DJ’s ideas for what he wants out of a baseball stadium.

When TSC was built, it was unique and without equal. It was a big idea that has paid off quite well.

And I think it’s time for the next big thing to be done. Something that we won’t have to revisit again for at least the next 40 years.

Don’t really care where it is, as long as it’s within the KC Metro area, but I think it’s time for a new Arrowhead with a retractable roof, something that could perhaps encourage a Super Bowl or NCAA Men’s Basketball Finals, or any other massive event that could bring out of town dollars to KC anytime of the year.

But I don’t wanna see it trend in the current direction of losing 15,000 seats. The new retractable roof stadium should incorporate everything about our past with a clear vision of the future and include 70,000 seats. Something unique but not stupid or anything that will be an eyesore after the latest trend wears out. Encourage more tailgating at the stadium by giving groups their own lanes, and perhaps even a section for those who don’t even intend on going in for the game. I know certain Chiefs fans and tailgating is their religion. Plus it’s just known nationally about KC Chiefs games and tailgating. Encourage it and perhaps create a better version of it.

Should go without saying, but if you’re going forward with a brand new retractable Arrowhead, you’re gonna go big on all the required facilities to make it THE cutting edge and most enjoyable, comfortable, welcoming place for the players, fans and media. Eight games are guaranteed every year, and every game should be unforgettable. I think a brand new Arrowhead could exist at the current location. Anytime I’ve ever driven past TSC on 70, I always take a look at that beautiful crown KC Royals scoreboard. In the future, I’d like to see that crown replaced with a massive arrowhead signage or scoreboard piece on the brand new football field, with all the other facilities and accoutrement where the existing Arrowhead stands. Or, in Kansas near the raceway. Hundreds of acres to buy and build whatever.

As for baseball, I’d like to see the Royals get closer to downtown KC, if not downtown proper. Gotta keep the iconic fountains and crown scoreboard in some version. Those two things alone make Kauffman iconic and stand out. I’ve been to a lot of places and whenever I’ve sat down in a bar and a game at Kauffman is on, regardless of how the team is doing, everyone knows the game is in KC and there’s usually a lot of comments about how lovely it is. It’s just one of those great things they got right 50 years ago, and improved upon it with the renovations 15 years ago. No fountains, no crown scoreboard? Go **** yourself. Start over dickwad.

Plop Kauffman down in downtown and I’d be okay with that, but realistically, the facade could be prettier and more interesting. I guess a lot of Crossroads people hate the idea of a ballpark landing in “their” neighborhood, but I personally think it could be great, and it would immediately turn into KC’s version of Wrigleyville. I think the ballpark should remain about the same size, capacity-wise, hopefully not going below 35/36,000.

I personally like the configurations of the current field. Big outfield, decent sized foul territory. If you have good pitching and good defense, this place will favor you, and I like having a home field advantage if we can create a team to align with what could give us an edge. I’m okay with a more neutral ballpark. Just please god, no cracker box home run derby ballpark.

Wouldn’t mind seeing a more wrap-around look on one side of the seating, with perhaps even an old-school overhang. If that makes sense.

One cool thing about the current K is the Little K, and I don’t even have kids, but I know a lot of people love having something like that for the little ones, and I’m not sure what or how to include something like that to a new downtown ballpark where space will likely be quite limited. Tailgating is in the same boat. Sorry gang, that will probably go bye-bye with a downtown park, and hopefully the economic impact of 20 tailgaters for every 81 games doesn’t hurt the bottom line.

Oh, and figure out parking and make it a clear part of any future presentation, because god knows, KC doesn’t know what to do if they don’t have a place to easily park their car. Blows my mind, but whatever, it’s a weird KC thing, kinda like my mother and her little peccadillos. She’s 82, but I get it. If you’ve gotta dig 500 feet below the ballpark to deliver the world’s most ridiculous parking garage, ****ing do it.

I guess that’s enough for now.

Jesus…. This post reads like a psycho.

https://y.yarn.co/477da76d-4ccb-4065...84f9c_text.gif

Loudest stadium in the world and home of the CHIEFS

Because narratives. People are dug in with their beliefs. Just as I am with mine with keeping Arrowhead. Nostalgia means something.

Nostalgia and all.....man I hate to see Arrowhead go. It's just been such a big part of all of our lives.

But that's just probably the way things go and its inevitable. That being the case, you've gotta get somewhere closer to actual business than where they are. That area isn't going to ever develop, so don't try.

The west bottoms are an interesting idea, but I would imagine a billion dollars ain't touching it down there.

I've not seen anyone talk about it, but the northland has really seemed to explode my last couple trips up there, so maybe somewhere that way?

The Legends area doesn't do it for me. I know there's shit out there, but it seems like its kinda peaked....maybe I'm off on that.

How about an actual plan instead of give us more money and trust us?

Also, why do the residents of the area that fund the team have to buy a cable or streaming service to watch their local team?

Or perhaps some feeling of gratitude for supporting both of these team through the lean years.

Tickets, parking, concessions all continue to go up in price and yet, they ask for more.

It doesn't matter what we want.

They are going to do whatever they want, we are just along for the ride.

KC filled that stadium for years when they weren't winning anything near a playoff game.

They want to go, let them. Life marches on.

This is ultimately about money, not nostalgia, nor area.


I've got enough memories to last a lifetime, albeit I'm heading towards my twilight years.

It's just not that important to me at this point.

* They won SBIV, built Arrowhead and then didn't win for years. Be sad to see that repeat itself.

Couldn't have said it better so won't waste my time trying.

No matter what, a new stadium will bring PSL's, more parking rape, etc.

I don't go to many games so I don't understand the emotional side of what you guys describe. To me I just see gouging, gouging, gouging.

I do well, and run a very good business. I have a problem with getting ass-****ed at every turn.

I want a LJS in both stadiums!!!

Yeah, and how come the Chiefs already asked on the ballot to renovate Arrowhead if it's impossible to renovate Arrowhead?

Just rotate to different college stadiums in Missouri, Kansas, Iowa, Nebraska, Arkansas,.....

There are severe limitations on what they can do to the stadium based on it's age & how it was built.

In fact, forget the stadium!

Then why is that what the Chiefs themselves asked us to do? What are these severe limitations that they didn't care about prior to Tuesday's vote?

They showed you the renovations they wanted to do. Essentially everything was outside the stadium for the parking lot or for VIP's.

If you want to know the limitations on the stadium, I suggest you ask someone in the Chiefs organization. I'm just repeating what was said at some point.

I understand that you think Arrowhead is perfect. I do as well. I love Arrowhead, but I'm also realistic. Eventually they are going to have to replace it because of age. Plus it's in a bad location. What is the point in throwing $800 million into it every 10-15 years just to maintain when they could build a brand new stadium and get everything they want out of it for $1.5-$2 billion.

My brother in law is an architectural engineer in Boston. Originally from the KC area. He says the teams aren’t bullshitting about concrete being an issue.

Says venues like Fenway and Wrigley are fairly easy to update to modern standards for things like tensile strength because you can simply swap out I-beams or reinforce trusses, etc.

Concrete, which was used heavily in the 60’s-80’s, does not maintain its strength over time the same way steel does and is extremely hard do replace in complex design systems like Kauffman and Arrowhead.

He says they could be steel reinforced but the costs to do so would likely be so astronomical that they wouldn’t make sense over just building anew.

His words “inspections will begin to fail, and upkeep will be too expensive to justify staying there, and I’m guessing they’re close to that point already.”

A retractable-roof stadium with 100,000 seats. Preferably not in its current terrible location. Aesthetically, it should bear at least a passing resemblance to the current Arrowhead. Arrowhead on steroids, so to speak.

There's no way any top-notch NFL stadium is getting built for less than $2 billion.

I'm gonna need more than vague references to "someone" said at some point. Especially when the organization itself tried to ram through getting it done so they could be in Arrowhead for the next 40 years.

Arrowhead is a legendary, historic, iconic stadium. It is the envy of the entire NFL. A bucket-list destination. You live with any minor warts, and you don't worry about finding ways to glom on shiny new toys if the main stadium itself is still viable. Lambeau still makes due with bleacher seating FFS.

My understanding is that legally this cannot be done because stadiums are no longer allowed to be built at the extreme angles Arrowhead was built with.

A new stadium means a new design, and that likely means it won’t be as loud as the current design.

A new stadium means serious changes. And you might as well start preparing yourself for those changes, because they are sadly coming.

You think the stadium is going to survive another 40 years?

Look, I know you love it and don't want anything to change. All I'm saying is that change is coming whether you like it or not.

That place still has bench seating in it. Also the citizens basically own the team so there's never a threat of them moving.

This I also would like to know. What are these severe limitations? I think a lot of people saw that report on the K and believed that cancer of concrete BS. That was a hand-picked inspection paid for by Shyster Sherman. The Jackson County Sports Authority refused an independent inspector to examine.

People seem to think improvements and expansion are attached to the Arrowhead structure. The additions some 15 years ago had their own piers and columns and beams that support that structure alone. Excavation isn't a big deal to expand out for larger locker rooms if needed. It is done all the time on building.

I'm a northland kid (grew up in Parkville) and yeah, it's gone off up there.

Probably plenty of space out by the new airport still. Maybe near Tiffany Springs Park or Platte Purchase? Quite a bit of available land out there around 435 as well, though I'm not sure how much of it is capable of being readily developed into that immense a plan. I mean you're talking about 400 acres pretty easily.

There are concrete buildings and structures all over the world well over 100 years old and in fantastic condition.

That's my biggest worry as well. Going to a game isn't cheap, but it isn't prohibitive. For most games you can get decent tickets for 4 people for around $500. If that's something you wanted to do, it wouldn't be hard to save $50/mo for a year and get your game in with the family.

And that will likely seem like a walk in the park compared to what will happen if/when they build a new stadium. Prices don't typically just increase - they friggen explode. And long-term STHs end up getting price out or just flat displaced on occasion because of it.

I think we had a member here who had his seats at the 50 (he'd had for a couple decades) double in price when they did the Arrowhead renovations so he had to move. You'll get that sort of thing and then some with a new stadium.

I am only going by what the Chiefs themselves have asked for. I don't personally know anything about it. All around the world we see structures that stand for 100+ years, so it's not like some crazy pie in the sky idea. Lambeau is like 15 years older than Arrowhead and I haven't heard anything about them making a switch.

People were so underwhelmed by these plans. I’m shocked that this is the best they could come up with. I think this really helped the no vote. It doesn’t enhance the game day experience for 95% of fans.

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That's absolutely why.

My understanding is that with the time value this was essentially going to cost taxpayers $2 billion over the duration of the extension and it just did NOTHING.

It wasn't anything resembling 'the best we could do' - it was just the best they were willing to do. Because they didn't really want to win in the first place.

This is what the Chiefs asked for. VIP parking lot & entry, End Zone Suites, and more parking lot at the cost of what, $800 million?

"NOTHING" (Except keep in tact the greatest home field advantage in all of sports and an iconic, historic venue.)

I get that and see why it failed. If you are going to spend that kind of taxpayer money the proposal needs to be something that's exciting for the fans to support and see benefit from.

Think about Hospitals they are constantly expanding. Those expansions are self-supporting structures independent of the original structure with expansion joints between them. Yet they open into the old building and become wings.

And they are used 365 days a year.

Stay at Arrowhead. The Royals should find a way to move downtown and have some direct connection to PNL through point-to-point mass transit active on gamedays.

Agree with DJ. They need a roof and this year made that abundantly clear. Fans having amputations is clearly not ideal. It’s not “football conditions”.

I’ve been to Arrowhead in rainy cold games and it’s honestly not fun. It’s not a fun experience for the price and the football isn’t as quality as it could be. I’m fine with warm games and snow games like the Colts 2018 playoff game being open. That’s fun. That’s football. But not -20 degree games like the Dolphins playoff game.

This helps fan experience and Clark gets a SB which will undoubtedly help Kansas City.

I’d love to have a retractable roof like the one in Toronto.


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Obv. I am not a tax payer in the district, but the plan consisted a bunch of shit for the VIPs. More luxury suites and VIP entrances. Those are things that do not go into the revenue sharing, IIRC. Were I a taxpayer in the district, I would be spitting mad that Clark wanted me to foot the bill so he can put more money directly into his pocket and not improve the experience for the other 79,950 fans.

That's a cool design.

A billion dollars of tax payers money is required for that? Also, the Packers are owned by the city, aren't they? Of course they aren't talking about moving. If KC owned the Chiefs this wouldn't be an issue and we'd probably have bleachers, too.

I think the Chiefs threw out a half assed renovation plan and attached it to a doomed Royals proposal because they wanted to lose. Now they can say "we tried" and move to Kansas to have their shiny new stadium in the area they'd prefer. I don't want to leave Arrowhead and I'll miss it, but if this is what Clark wants, he's gonna get it.

A passing thought I've had lately, perhaps ironically, KC could be suited for a dual purpose stadium if it were feasible to swap the playing surfaces of both sports out. Heck, with a roof and tinted glass, you could orient the batters' eye side of the baseball configuration to the west from the East Village site for the view of downtown.

There are roughly a half dozen wealthy owners that control the Packers. The ownership certificates the fans own in the form of "stock" are trinkets.

I don't think anybody realized that the Royals plan was doomed until long after the Chiefs added their plan to the ballot question. I think the majority thought it would probably "barely pass". So if Clark was hard-charging to get out of it, he took a major risk. Plus their ads talking about there's "no place better than Arrowhead" specifically.

I suppose if we really see zero effort to independently pass something for Arrowhead that isn't intertwined with a controversial downtown baseball plan that will bolster your theory.

Ok, fair enough. Never did quite get their whole deal.

I don’t think the ballys site is large enough? Could wheeler airport be relocated? Lots of land there?

But the smell...it's not constant, but when it kicks, it causes Havana Syndrome.

I don't see how Jackson Countians will ever trust Shyster Sherman after all his dirty tricks trying to get this passed. He may move them or sell the team. I'd be all for that dudes a turd and have always been.