Offensive struggles the last 2 years are personnel driven, not coaching
 

Idk how anyone cannot see this.

Andy Reid stood at the combine in 2023 and said Skyy Moore and Kadarius Toney were their top WR’s. We saw how that went.

In fact, can anyone tell me without looking what WR has had the most snaps of any Chiefs WR the last 2 seasons? Anyone? Ready for it? It’s Justin Watson. Nobody has played more snaps at that position than him the last 2 years.

Don’t even get me started on the OL. A late 3rd and late 2nd on tackles are considered projects. They are not real shots at a LT historically speaking. Shocking that they turned out to look like projects.
We have had 5 starting LT’s the last 2 years. FIVE.

The RB room had the least explosive plays of any RB room in the entire league. Only 17 10+ explosive plays all year. We even had some loser with an Alligator that plays FB take starting snaps LMAO

I get that it sucked losing Pacheco, Hollywood and Rashee. I understand and am not faulting Veach. The fact is that Kareem Hunt, Juju, DeAndre Hopkins and Travis Kelce are old. They aren’t explosive anymore. That was painfully clear tonight. It’s why Veach doesn’t like signing 30+ year old players unless he absolutely has to.

Again this isn’t a Veach bitch fest it’s just the facts. I think Veach is gonna take a hammer to this offense and hard after OL and explosive playmakers.

Thankfully he’s got an extra pick early thanks to Sneed

Kareem did great for us, under the circumstances. If they want him back to be what he was in Cleveland, that’s fine. Pacheco either is still not fully recovered or he is in pumpkin mode. Either way, we need a true lead back.

We’ve drafted around the 30th pick in the first round for the last 6 drafts.

We traded for or signed multiple players IN-SEASON this year.

Pretty remarkable we’ve been able to hold it together for this long

They've gotten away with patchwork WRs in back to back SB runs and tried the same with this Thuney/Caliendo tandem on the left side. Just didn't work this time.

5 different guys at Left Tackle the last 2 seasons. You ended up having to downgrade your Left Guard situation when you moved the starting LG to play Left Tackle. Too much of a revolving door at the Left Tackle spot. Other contending teams have a much more stable situation at Left Tackle.

Paying premium $$$ for 3/5’s of the offensive line, while trying to get by on the cheap at LT is a flawed premise.

Especially when one of those highly paid players… Thuney and his 5th highest AAV among left guards has to be moved to LT.

We still got dumb bitches in here talking about not giving up on Kingsley.

Bret has had one great draft and that's it.

LT is priority #1 for this organization while Mahomes is at QB, and should be treated as such. Learning the harsh LT lesson again in the Superbowl has been really rough, you'd think these front office guys making many $ millions would know this. Clark Hunt needs to spare no expense in doing whatever needs to be done to fix the OL, if that means bringing in external OL gurus to help Veach who sucks at drafting OL he should do that. We only have so much time with Mahomes to win championships

It doesn't have to be either or. Yes, the talent is extremely deficient on offense. No RBs, receivers are still subpar, No explosive option at TE anymore, and the tackles are some of the worst in the league.

That being said, the coaches are not doing the players any favors. I'm a believer in Andy Heck being a huge problem on the OL. I still don't like Connor Embree. Who knows what Bleymaier does as passing game coordinator. Nagy is probably just a puppet. Reid's offense has gotten stale and boring. Playcalling is not good. They don't stick wtih the run, players often execute poorly (yes that's on the players but the coaches also don't get them ready). It's not just a single issue, it's a culmination of a lot of problems that all reared their ugly heads at once.

I have a question for you. Do you believe Washington WR room, QB, and offensive line is more talented than the chiefs? Overall. And if not. Why did they put up 350 scrimmage yards vs our 275(really 150 vs starters)

This is so dumb. They have picked last in every rd. There isn’t a true blue chip player that is available that late.

Creed and Trey are excellent draft picks. Rashee was looking like a star in the making. Worthy looks like a star too.

Even Pacheco before his injury this year has been really good with explosive plays.

He isn’t terrible drafting

The Chiefs averaged 28 PPG in the 4 games before the SB when Thuney took over at LT and Hollywood came back. All 4 games vs playoff teams.

It’s a talent problem

Moving Thuney to LT really hurt because it made LG so damn bad.

Probably wouldn’t have made a huge difference but I remember seeing stats about how Kingsley was completely left on an island. Chiefs even gave Morris more help. Then even more for Thuney while implementing a quicker passing game with healthy receivers.

I wonder what the season would’ve looked like if Reid gave Kingsley that help and adjusted the playcalling accordingly. Ya know…what you would typically do with a rookie LT.

Kingsley has the physical tools, so maybe he grows throughout the year while being protected.

Maybe he still sucks, but the Chiefs management of him will always be perplexing to me.

Losing your #1 WR [Rice] will cause a hit.

The team decided to resign CJ.

Yes, there is probably too much money tied up in the OL between Thuney, center and RT, but no GM has every player below market.

Three-peats are hard.

Not seeing play calling going to make up for that much of that.

We live and die with Mahomes. He didn't play like the legend he is tonight.

Hey simple question. Do you believe Washington has the more talented WR room than the chiefs?

Or you can answer do they have the more talented QB?

Or maybe they have a more talented OL?

Any of those 3 at all? Like just one? IF NOT

Why did they put up 300+ yards vs eagles all 3 meetings and we put up 150 before they put in their second string. Why did we have 24 yards of scrimmage 20 minutes of game time off the clock?

Please answer these simple questions sir since you seem to be clearly ignoring what should be easy to answer based on your stated premise.

Thank you.

The offensive struggles are directly related to the OL. We haven’t had explosiveness at RB since before Pacheco was hurt and prior to that Hunt.

Kareem Hunt 4.9 ypc in 2017 Long 69
Kareem Hunt 4.6 ypc in 2018 (11 games) Long 45
Damian Williams 4.5 ypc in 2019 Long 91
CEH 4.4 ypc in 2020 Long 31
CEH 4.3 ypc in 2021 Long 17
Pacheco 4.9 ypc in 2022 Long 31
Pacheco 4.6 ypc in 2023 Long 48
Kareem Hunt 3.8 ypc in 2024 (13 games) Long 20
Pacheco 3.6 ypc in 2024 (7 games) Long 34

For reference Jamaal Charles averaged at least 5.0 ypc in his 8 years with the chiefs …maxed out at 6.9 Ypc in 2011

Mahomes was pressured on 40-50% of his dropbacks in that timespan. Pretty hard to do much of anything with that kind of pressure in your face. I wouldn't even say we have poor talent at OL.

I honestly have no idea why we got blown out. This game still confuses me.

He played like a Frog and not a Prince..

The OL is better than they showed tonight.

The OL issues weren’t a season long issue as some believe.

There was a 6 game stretch where most of the suck happened.

Tonight was the worst of it unfortunately.

I won’t lie to you and say that Washington was pressured just as much as Mahomes early on. But Washington did face significant pressure something like 30-40% in that game and was wildly more successful than the chiefs at simply moving the ball. They have a more advanced RPO scheme than we even used against Buffalo(our best offensive game of the year) but abandoned vs the Eagles. They also didn’t stupidly have a 10+ depth of target for all receivers on obvious passing downs. Mahomes missed Kelce on one 1st down and they pivoted out of a winning strategy. The chiefs had one first down in the first 20 minutes of the game. Serious accountability has to be addressed.

You must be really confused if you don't think our Oline sucks..

The whole is worse than the sum of its parts.

It’s better than whatever tonight was though.

LT is priority #1, because we need to get Thuney back to LG.

Caliendo can’t see the field again.

Totally agree. Thuney was a bandaid on a bullet hole and the eagles ripped it right off.

Think the more reasonable question to fixing it wouldn’t be who we can put there so we can try and play the way we want but how can we play around it?

They also have the benefit of playing them twice a year and being more familiar with them.

And don't forget it will cause a big hit next year too, because I assure you he'll miss a minimum of six games if not 1/2 or more of the season to start.

The footage from this game is brutal. Andy tried everything. Screens, YAC plays, even running a few times which went nowhere.

Talent has tied his hands so badly man. We need to fix this this offseason

And 2 of Washington's OL were former Chiefs who were smoked by Tampa in that SB in Wylie and Allegretti.

Bullshit. Don't bash your head into a wall with the same OL group that clearly isn't working and is makeshift to begin with. Throw Humphries out and shift Thuney inside. Go heavy and line up Humphries as the 6th man. ****ing do SOMETHING.

Tied his own damn hands pencilling in a raw as **** rookie that obviously should've been redshirted and it culminated in that ****ing disaster last night. This was a self inflicted problem.

This all day.

Amazing job by everyone from ownership down. Just went through the greatest stretch of success in NFL history FFS.

amen

Because you don’t give up on the one ****ing guy on the team with the tools and the frame to actually play LT after one disappointing season.

No, you don’t bank on him, but you continue to give him a chance to break into that spot.

If a great tackle you like comes your way in the draft or if you have a reasonable method of trading up to get him, sure, go ahead. If your confident solution is a guy in free agency, sure by all means.

But you don’t flush Kingsley down the goddamn toilet when there’s a history of LTs being bad their rookie seasons in this league.

Yeah the biggest gamble of the season was trying to fix LT while going cheap. Many accurately claimed during the season that if the Chiefs did not win the SB, this would be the reason. They were right.

Reminded me of the SB loss to Tampa where Andy refused to add extra blocking help and just kept running the same passing plays over and over while Mahomes ran for his life.

Sign an NFL caliber LT and a dynamic RB and watch how fast this offense looks explosive as hell again. You can't just throw scabs out there at those spots and tell Mahomes to keep making chicken salad out of chicken shit. It's so tiresome and this had to be the end of it.

Spare me the "look how many SBs we've won without a great LT and RB." Yeah, super duper. Times are clearly changing, and if last night didn't make that click for you, I don't know what to tell you. The days of going out there and winning because Mahomes wills you to and Reid and Spags just outcoach everyone are coming to an end, you can only count on that so long when other teams are loading up on talent while you count your pennies and refuse to spend at the same rate as them.

We have WRs now, pending Rice's health and legal situation. You get Kelce to retire or add void years to lower his cap hit, and you surround Mahomes with weapons like it's 2018 again. Enough is freaking enough with this shit. Pat looked like a man who was simply out of energy last night. I've never seen that look in his eye, and I never, ever want to see it again.

Kingsley was historically bad. Sure, don’t flush him. But it’s not an “IF” you find a better option in FA or the draft, it’s an absolute necessity. Allow KS to compete and maybe he steps in in 2026 at RT after Taylor is shown the door or maybe he takes over at RG. But going into 2025 without a very clear upgrade at LT is a fireable offense . Figure it out or find someone else who can, end of story.

Veach is a great GM but the truth is he tried to switch from an offensive team to a balanced roster post Tyreek but we did not get a balanced roster, the offense is not equal to the D.

Most of his hits and recent $$$ has gone to the defense.

The offense has gone to shit.

:clap: Nailed it!

I agree. I’m a little mixed on rb. I feel like defenses are gonna make an adjustment since we’re less of the hunted now. I feel like priority #1 will be stopping the run. You may see more emphasis on bigger, heavier defenses with less speed. I also feel like a full offseason of recovery for Pacheco and extra work for Steele who seems like he has largely coachable flaws + a better OL and we will be better in the run game. Still doesn’t hurt to at least swing for something.

OL… absolutely. Especially at LT

I think it's hard to see because they had the best offense in the league three years ago with weaker WRs, mediocre running backs and mediocre tackles.

I do agree with this and yet don’t regret it at the same time. It worked and in large part because veach crushed it on the defensive side. The hidden cost that I feel like people don’t talk about is that the draft can be an incredible tool in finding value at low positional value spots. We shouldn’t wait for Trey smith to come under contract. We should have a few guys weve evaluated through actual reps waiting in the wings. And it’s just really hard to do that when you’re trying to make a complete roster from top to bottom.

Both can be true, coaching and personnel.

What game are you watching and why do you refuse to address the obvious question of why Washington a clearly inferiorly talented offensive team was able to have infinitely more success.

The screen passes and YAC plays WORKED. We got first downs and then instantly started going for 20 yards depth of target 3 seconds or more developing plays that would obviously NEVER work against the pass rush. Where was the RPO? The coaching staff said they needed to get the ball in manageable downs and yardage yet consistently called awful calls on first downs. The first down calls in this game lost this game. If you can’t see that you’re mid IQ. The eagles had an advantage on the dline but we enhanced their advantage by playing this way.

We need to spend more picks on OL.

Not just grab a developmental tackle every 2 years in the late 2nd or 3rd.

Teams like Green Bay and Philadelphia are drafting numbers/bodies and finding high quality starters later.

We only did numbers after the Tampa SB loss for 1 year. Minimum 2 to 3 OL picks a year next 2-3 drafts.

Yeah man its both, look no further than our lack of adjustments last night

If you want to kid yourself into thinking adding 2-3 players to the line who won’t even likely be top 10 in their position will magically fix 34-0 and having 24 yards of offense in the first 1.5quarters in the most important game in any persons life ever…be my guest. You’re in for a world of suffering due to improper expectation. This team is never climbing the mountain again with this level of OC. The game is changing every year, and we aren’t.

It’s shocking that this team won 15 games in hindsight.

JFC… Everyone was talking about Andy’s great game plan after the Bills game and now all of a sudden he’s shit???
Teams get beat when there are better players on the other side… Even in the SB… Going to be a long offseason… SFC you spoiled bitches..

I still have faith in Veach and Reid. It's hard to build a winner year after year when you're drafting 32, 31, 30. The NFL is designed to prevent what the Chiefs are doing.

Hey mother****er, nobody is spoiled. We know what it was like before Mahomes and we know what it is going to be like after. We have 5-6 years to make the most out of this.

What in the **** about Mahomes stats in the last 2 years with Nagy on the team leads you to believe that we are making the most of our situation.

Does 0 points in the first 3 quarters of the most important game of anyone’s life feel ok to you? When our defense is playing lights out and holding the line with no sign of hope? Is that being spoiled for being absolutely disgusted by this disturbing nightmare?

Wake up before it’s over.

You joined exactly one year ago. Nobody cares what you think.

Meet me at the George Brett statue noob pussy…

I think it’s both. Our offensive line clearly struggled last night but the game plan and execution were just as bad. They needed to establish at least a threat of a running game to keep the defense guessing. It’s difficult to block if the defenders can pin their ears back and just go after the qb every snap.

You’re claiming inclusivity over a community of fat reeruns. Good for you.

So you're just a troll. At least you're honest.

We were out-coached and out-played. It was both the game-plan and the personnel.

But let's put it into perspective. Reid's creativity has won us a lot of games against teams with, imo, more talented rosters but worse QBs and coaches. The Niners and the last iteration of this Eagles team for starters. I wish he ran it a little more. I wish he was more ruthless, and that he occasionally adapted quicker in-game, including in this game. But I honestly think his coaching has got us SBs no other coach would.

Which leads me to personnel. Honestly, I do think Reid and Mahomes have, at times, papered over the cracks in rosters. I don't think Veach has got it all right and that's left us vulnerable. As I said elsewhere, Roseman is the standard for roster building. But he's also made some gutsy calls. Do we win more with Hill? I doubt it given what the rest of the roster would look like. It was a big personnel call, and it was right. The 2022 draft was top draw and he's got value in others.

Overall, everyone s**t the bed. The coaches got the game wrong but were hamstrung but the shi**y LT situation Veach oversaw.

We need a VERY good offseason from Veach and probably a home-run draft. More likely it'll take a few of each to build back up, with Reid and Mahomes keeping us competing regardless.

NFL fans love to hate the successful Chiefs. The potential $$$ lost may have some influence

That’s a fair point. But OCs are the hot commodity in the NFL right now for a reason.

Kellen Moore, Ben Johnson, Kliff Kingsbury. These guys are clearly elevating the level of play for their team instantaneously. There’s no reason the chiefs should settle for a guy who on paper is hurting more than helping.

20-20
 

I predicted 42-10 Eagles, no way am I a Philly anything I just saw it clear as day. When the Ravens went on a SB march they did it convincingly and manhandled their opponents. Momentum was like standing in front of loose logging truck coming down a grade, no matter who you think you are ...you're going to get blasted because nothing can stop this runaway Eagles team. I hoped it wouldn't be as embarrassing as I predicted is all. A complete team against an incomplete team, a swiss cheesed team with duct tape against finely tuned race team ...they play too many games to hold up, it's an attrition league now and unfortunately what I see now is the finality of this hyped stigma surrounding a QB who has contracted Warner Syndrome. The Raiders will be taking over now, Denver and LA 3rd now that he's weekended by second guessing his existence ...he'll never be the same unless he's traded to a favorable QB team like the Raiders with Chip Kelly, mark my words because he'll be mediocre at very best from now on. aka not elite because he's already been surpassed this last season QB wise, clearly ranking behind the pack stat wise. Reid and Kelce will retire. Spags and Nagy aren't HC material. Salary cap issues...end of this dynasty ...I wouldn't want to be the Chefs front office this off season. From now on consider this the twilight of Patrick's career like Lebron at the Lakers ...a lot of nothing to show

ROFL

Yeah but, when you look at it closely you could see this coming. It's why shit teams like Denver, Vegas, Carolina gave them problems.

Reed has a habit of wanting small, versatile "spark plug" running backs. They are handy for his trick plays but lousy when facing a full frontal assault of massive force.
Andy's teams have never historically done well against old fashioned smash mouth football.
His tricks don't work in the face of overwhelming force.

Blow it out of your ass, thimble dick

Of course you did you stupid ****. Like has already been said, blow it out your ass.

"the raiders will be taking over"

lmao

.I wouldn't want to be the front office this off season. From now on consider this the twilight of Patrick's career like Lebron at the Lakers ...a lot of nothing to show

DickLix?


You back after losing to KC again?!

Raiders are a poverty franchise. The Jets might be the only worse ran organization. Maybe

As far as yesterday I couldn't disagree more. Play calling was a real problem. If you are facing continuous pressure from the dl rushing 4 there are options you can do to help your qb and line. We did nothing.

Quick slants worked, draws, screens, outside tosses there are ways we could have moved the ball. Instead we had pat holding on to the ball 3 4 5 6 seconds.

How do you plan to do that? It is so damn easy to spew this kind shit without any real way of accomplishing the task, especially if it is going to be easy. We currently have $11M in cap space according to OTC while having a slew of UFAs that are important.

Trey Smith
DeAndre Hopkins
Justin Reid
Charles Omenihu
Marquise Brown
D.J. Humphries
Joshua Uche
Tershawn Wharton
Carson Wentz
Derrick Nnadi
Justin Watson
Samaje Perine
Nick Bolton
James Winchester
Mike Pennel
JuJu Smith-Schuster
Kareem Hunt
Mecole Hardman
Marlon Tuipulotu

It is not just one thing. It is a combination. Talent is not where it needs to be on the OL. Yet there are plays that can be called to help with this talent shortage. Andy did not take care of this issue as much as he could have with plays and packages.

Exactly. I know a guard playing LT is a liability and general line talent is less than we need.

Your definition of important and mine are not the same.

Veach did put the full court press on for Josh Jacobs last Spring. Not for a lack of trying.

We are getting a new RB this Spring that’s for sure

Lack of separation outside of Worthy and sometimes Hollywood outside of schemed passes was quietly one of the biggest reasons we lost.

This is really really bad

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">For those <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> fans that want to see it here is the high 50 view of all the passing plays from the game yesterday. For those that don&#39;t want to view, I get it but I made it one clip so it isn&#39;t a ton of breakdowns all over your timeline. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a> <a href="https://t.co/0o9ZNVWwea">pic.twitter.com/0o9ZNVWwea</a></p>&mdash; Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jacobs71/status/1889084807180681689?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 10, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Boo boo down vote. Also gives me a bit of hope they may finally be ditching their preferred archetype of RB.

Hindsight being 50/50 and all, Hopkins ended up being a complete waste of time. Dude was washed and I really wish they would've used that pick on Cam Robinson instead just for the factor of knowing whether he'd continue to be mediocre to bad here or if he had a higher ceiling so we could possibly extend him.

Yikes. I’m going to hope that’s a personnel issue and not a scheme issue.

We shouldn't give up on Kingsley. He can develop. I remember Fisher looked like dog shit for several years. Even at right tackle he looked bad

JuJu, Kelce, and Hopkins are old and slow… that’s a personnel issue.

But schematically it seemed like the Andy/Nagy were giving Mahomes very few hot reads to bail him out as he was pressured… instead the receivers were almost always 10-15 yards downfield not even looking for the ball.

I would get rid of Nagy and get new blood. I realize it probably doesn't matter and it is Reids baby but it is what it is.