Bannister Mall: the new home of the Wizards. Watch KC screw this up.
 

KC will screw this up. They had Bass Pro ready to go in abut they didn't want to give them TIF. Just what tax revenue are they getting now from that area? It's a wasteland.

http://www.kansascity.com/business/story/391605.html

Funkhouser opposes Super TIF for Bannister Mall redevelopment


By KEVIN COLLISON
The Kansas City Star Kansas City Mayor Mark Funkhouser said Wednesday that he opposed extraordinary tax breaks to help the Bannister Mall area redevelopment plan — incentives that backers say are vital for success.“It’s a wonderful project. I’m ready to sign off,” Funkhouser said at a development forum where he made a public appearance early in the day. “But I can’t stomach 23 years of Super TIF.”

Funkhouser later elaborated in a statement saying that while he was “excited” about the prospect of redeveloping the vacant mall property in south Kansas City, he wouldn’t support the $43.5 million in Super Tax Increment Financing being requested as part of the package to help finance the development.
Under Super TIF, all rather than just part of the local taxes generated by a project are diverted to help defray eligible costs.

The ambitious Three Trails redevelopment proposal, valued at almost $1 billion when fully built over 10 years, calls for a mixed-use development anchored by a new stadium for the Wizards professional soccer team. It would include a 12-field tournament-style soccer complex; a 250-room hotel; 609,000 square feet of retail space; and 610,500 square feet of office space.

The developers are seeking $273.3 million through a variety of local and state tax incentives to help finance the project.

“I want to see the Three Trails redevelopment happen,” Funkhouser said. “But I don’t intend to support the current plan without more thorough discussion and, at least, the removal of the Super TIF requirement, which redirects 100 percent of any new property, sales and earnings taxes back to the project.”

The development group backing the project, which includes top executives of Cerner Corp. and Lane4 Property Group, contends that Super TIF is needed to fill a financial gap for the project.

It remains unclear what effect Funkhouser’s position with have on the development group’s pursuit of the project at the Bannister Mall site. The developers have sought a decision by the Kansas City Council by the end of December to meet a construction timetable that calls for the soccer stadium to be open by spring 2010.
Project backers, who have considered alternative sites elsewhere in the area, could not be reached for comment after Funkhouser’s statement.

Besides the use of Super TIF, Funkhouser also objects to the plan’s provision that the city own the soccer stadium, saying it would require long-term expense and attention.

“The construction of the city-owned Sprint Center required a new tax and public vote, yet we are considering this plan with neither,” Funkhouser said in his statement. “I want to be sure we have thought through that decision and its fiscal impact on the city.”
The mayor’s announcement threw a new twist into a discussion that already had gotten off to a poor start earlier in the day.

At a meeting of the council’s Finance and Audit Committee, at which dozens of people testified, most favored the project. But Chairwoman Deb Hermann postponed a recommendation on the project after becoming frustrated by widely differing economic impact estimates submitted to her panel.

The city’s Finance Department issued an analysis indicating that the city would have a $41 million negative impact over the 23-year life of the project’s proposed financing. An analysis by the Economic Development Corp., in contrast, indicated a $45 million net benefit over the same period.
Both groups use different ways of evaluating the economics, and Hermann decided to seek additional time to sort out the issue.

Her committee has one more meeting scheduled before the end of the year.

“You just can’t give me a scenario with an $86 million swing,” Hermann said. “I’m not a financial expert. That’s why we have a Finance Department.”

Further complicating matters, Councilman John Sharp, a strong supporter of the Three Trails project, said Funkhouser had received a letter from state officials stating that any state aid for the project was contingent on the city’s granting the Super TIF assistance.

The project seeks $20.7 million in state tax-increment financing and $10 million in state tax credits.

Who cares? Its soccer...

Just get it out of Arrowhead.

Pissed me off to no end seeing those damn soccer lines on the field.:#

Same here...

Just want soccer out of arrowhead...

Send it back to the Euro's where it belongs....

IMO, they need something like this that will draw people in to spend money from other parts of the city. You can't just put in a bunch of new retail shops like some other people want to do, all the retail business got run out of the area already. I don't think the neighborhood economically can support much. Hell they closed a Walmart, when have you ever seen a walmart close?

The Wizards would be better off with an intimate, soccer-specific venue and the neighborhood would be better off without the corpse of what used to be sitting there vacant.

How about getting it out of the country!

Dave

There's got to be a better project than a soccer stadium that they can build there, right?

How many people attend Wizard games?

Is it possible to build a dual use fascility that can be used for convention space the other 350 days a year?

I wouldn't want the superTIF to pass either.. The private enterprise there wants it for 23 years, and that is not counting all the other discounts the city is giving them.. They literally want everything free to them..

I do find it funny that the amounts are so different when you hear them from the developers side and the city's side... Going to side on the city since they are the one footing the bill..

Also of Funk's pledges when he was running was to cut down on TIFs.. There is a great article in the Pitch that shows that all of these new shopping areas have not provided the revenue generating power or jobs they said they would.. This includes Legends... The city or citizens have not gotten back anything in return for these places...

Bass Pro shop was going to put a huge store right in the middle of the Bannister Mall. Build a hotel and other entertainment attractions themed around the western trails era.

Hundreds of Millions were going to be invested. But they wanted this TIF also. KC balked and the area shut down. And Bass Pro went to Independence got the TIF and are buidling a massive store at the corner of 291 and I-70.

F the plan, and F soccer. Simply a plan for a bunch of developers to get rich-quick - cloaked in "it's great for the city" BS.

Thats the reality of business. If they don't get the money they will go down the street to the next city, as Bass Pro Shops did.

Doesn't make it right. It is what it is. Why should we pay millions of $'s to a staium for a team to play in but we have no say in how that team is run. Basically, Taxation without represntation. But we got to vote so we said it was okay to do to us.

There will be no tax increase to the public but maybe there still should be a vote?

I HATE soccer.

But, I would like to see something cool built in the Bannister mall area.

That area is a wasteland. What is soccer going to do for it? Seems pretty flipp'n stupid to me.

Other then the fact that the developers are asking for more then the original TIF.. They want it for over 23 years... The other thing that pisses me off about these places is they dilapidate other areas.. No new revenue is created from these things, just stolen from other areas near by...

Lets take the northland

Barrytowne got a small TIF to be built, promised close to 1000 jobs and new business.. It has about ten jobs and 400 employees in all the stores.. It also helped further the decline of Metro North..

Then you got Zona Rosa coming with its TIF, owned by the same company as Barrytowne.. It stole businesses from Barrytrail and Metro North.. So now those places are sitting empty or soon to be empty once Circuit City moves to Zona.. Metro North is practically dead, but guess what they are talking about getting a TIF to redevelop that also..

The only benefit will be the fields and stadium for their limited use.. Guess what most of the local kids will not be able to play there..They are going to use those fields to draw in kids/leagues from outside the state, not the kids from around the metro area...

Funny how the Star leaves that out most of the time.. Most of those businesses that go in will be vacant also within a few years..


And I am starting to wonder about the STARS angle on attacking Funk on every decision.. It is sad that the Pitch is 10x the newspaper then the Star with investigation articles...

I thought they just relocated the Wal-Mart, which would make a lot of sense considering the state of things for years.

There are plenty of other cities where soccer teams are doing well in their own soccer-specific venues. I don't see why ours couldn't do the same. Even if you don't like the sport, don't go, but having a successful franchise operating in your city is a good thing.

And the game is entertaining to watch. You're a d-nozzle IMO if you choose not to like something because you're afraid someone is going to call you a p#ssy for it. If you don't like it, fine. I realize it's not a fast food sport where you get a score and 5 commercials every 5 minutes.

What I think is flawed in the idea of opening up some new shopping down there is that the area has gone way downhill. It's not the early 1980s anymore, there isn't any retail business there because people don't have the money to support it.

I remember going into the Best Buy that used to be there, before it closed down, and it didn't look like any best buy you'd ever seen. If I remember right you had to ask for a key to the bathroom. You could tell they had a problem with theft there and everything else.

Hopefully the same thing a race track did for WYCO...

on a different scale, of course.

I've been to a Wizards game - took all 3 of my daughters. I was moderately entertained but not enough to spend money to watch. Thankfully the tickets were free. I somewhat understand the draw of larger sports and why they qualify for tax breaks but what is for all intents and purposes a fledgling league shouldn't be able to bend our city over backwards for a stadium. That's ridiculous. How many soccer leagues have flopped in this country? I'm totally against any plan that gives soccer a free pass to tax benefits at this juncture.

A 23 year tax exemption is CRAZY. That development will be dead in 23 years, leaving the city with no revenue stream from the deal.

no that was a HYPERMART, a now called superwalmart :) :o) ROFL but yes... i was shocked when i drove by on the way to the "Whales Vagina" and KC game.

I'm not a huge fan of TIF myself, I was just saying, it's popular to beat up on soccer but it's possible to appreciate it entirely. It's not at the level that it is in Europe, but the league is WAY ahead of where it was 10 years ago.

I think with the changing demographics in this country, soccer is going to become more and more popular, maybe at the expense of things like the NBA and NHL.

Around 10,000 per game; more if we're doing well.

NBA - naturally, let them keep acting like hooligans (SP?) and striking. i didnt mind letting go of MLB once they did it...

as for NHL..its a pain to get it on TV....what do the fools running the NHL think? we get enjoyment by osmosis? if they play it we can learn to hate or enjoy it.

Soccer will continue to grow, no harm no foul. as with NHL though....they need to televise it a bit more so it makes fricken sense

The problem with soccer in this country is that it's entirely different than the soccer they play overseas. There aren't nearly as many spectacular players and plays, the game is much, much slower and there isn't the ESPN-type of coverage.

That being said, I think the league is getting better. And if you don't like soccer, that's fine, but it's only going to become more popular as immigrants settle in here.

The game isn't played at the same level, that's for sure. The skill of the players in MLS isn't of international caliber. But the league has to begin somewhere, and it is getting better.

I like watching the (English) premier league matches I can see on cable. And a few months ago I was in Dublin, in a bar full of people watching Liverpool/Marseille, and it was fun. I had friends there that didn't like soccer and said they were enjoying watching it.

A lot of our enjoyment of sport is enjoying it with the people around us. The hurdle is getting that ball rolling.

So what you are saying is we are being taken over by foreigners. Count me among the non sports fan if Soccer becomes preeminent in this country. I simply cannot get excited about 60 minutes of 1-NIL football. The only thing more annoying than that, is the ref being the only fool in the stadium that actually knows when the freaking halves are over with.

Many soccer leagues have flopped in this country and yet it's still one of the top participated sports as far as youth in the country. Johnson County has one of the highest per capita ratios of players to population in the country. As such, funding a new stadium that will also serve as a marquee for top tournaments and exhibitions is a good idea. It likely will never be as popular as the NFL in the US. Likely won't be as popular as baseball either.

The popularity level could change as the US becomes a dominant force in the sport on a worldwide level. It's taken a long time for us to become serious players on the highest levels but we are there and getting better. As a previous poster said, the problem with US soccer is that is so much slower and, simultaneously, less finesse than the worldwide soccer powerhouses. As US players improve that will change as well.

I think the key to making soccer huge in this country is to NOT rely solely on foreign imports who are on the downsides of their career to be the ambassador and face of the sport here. See the Beckham debacle. Rather, its to continue to grow and develop OUR OWN PLAYERS and win a WC or two. It will only be then that we can judge whether or not soccer will be successful as a draw in this country.

If after the US has won a couple of world titles they still can't sell the sport then it likely will not ever be sold. But until we have that accomplishment under our belt we are just guessing what it's impact might or might not be.

Given the crime rate in that area, a correctional facility would be well used.

"A couple of world titles?" That's more than England has and they seem to sell it just fine. There are only about 4 teams that have ever even won it twice.

Yes, that is what it will take for the world's super power to be considered a DOMINANT force in the sport.

Soccer is the most participated sport in elementary school because its easy to learn and no one gets hurt. When they hit middle school almost 75% of the kids drop out. Why? Because they figured out they are not that good and running around chasing a ball is no longer fun.

It use to be baseball was king in elementary school but now when little Johnny gets hit with a pitched baseball its all of a sudden not fun anymore.

Football? Very few kids try that more than one year. Again, people are hitting you and it can sometimes hurt.

Look for tetherball championships soon.

My son was like that at first, but once he figured out he could just wait a few plays and give it back, he suddenly liked football... A LOT.

Last year was his first year, it will be interesting to see if he wants to do it when it comes time to sign up again. Hopefully I can pack a few pounds on him this offseason :)

DT

football makes kids violent, it's not appropriate. :thailor:

No one gets hurt?

Let's see, I've seen a concussions, broken arm, broken ankle, fractured leg just from kids that I know who have played varying in age from 10-16. I'm talking premier to High School level. NOT Rec soccer.

Then perhaps Johnson County should offer up an incentive package.

Technically, it's 90+ minutes.

And no, we're not being "taken over by foreigners." But like it or not, immigrants are coming here and will probably continue to come here and their entertainment dollars will start to help dictate what gets covered in this country.

To me, soccer is more consistently interesting than baseball and football. Non-stop action for 45 minutes. There are commercial time outs or people waiting around for a ball to fly over home plate every 45 seconds. It's infinitely more interesting than NASCAR, but people each have their own idea of what they like.

I'm not saying that anyone HAS to like soccer. I really don't care if you do or you don't. But it being here will help bring entertainment dollars to this city and that can only be a good thing.

I wish they would. It sure beats driving to MO and giving them our $. But, I digress, the last initiative was bad though I still supported it. It lost badly.

They also want the city to own the stadium. I think the mayor is right in this case.

Not likely to happen in our lifetimes. I'd just be happy with consistently being able to move out of the group stage in the WC and win 1 or 2 games in the semis.

Of course, I never thought I'd see England fail to qualify for Euro 2008, either.

I think it's quite likely they'll win one. Think of how far they've come in a relatively short time. They are serious contenders now. That is the first step.

This marks the end of soccer in KC.

Good riddance.

Not at all. We'll be considered a force in the sport when we consistently have our starting 11 players playing overseas and STARTING in their leagues. Currently, the only real *star* we have is Tim Howard, and he's a keeper. Dempsey is impressing at Fulham, as did McBride. Bocanegra is okay, but still wouldn't start on one of the better teams in the EPL. Freddy Adu could be great, as could Altidore, but the jury is still out on them.

Until the US develops a great striker and a couple of midfield players who can actually link up with that guy, we won't ever do anything in international soccer.

No, people drop out of soccer because there's not the promise of full-ride scholarships followed by multi-million dollar pro-sports contracts. If pro soccer paid as well as the NFL or MLB, I guarantee you people wouldn't drop out so quickly. And people aren't dropping out as quickly as they used to.

I'm still sad that KC didn't get the Penguins. THAT would have been awesome.

:(

Yes but thats true about anything. If people that worked cleaning toilets got paid NFL money everyone would want to be a toilet cleaner.:)

No way. Not even close. We're not even the highest ranked team in our region. We, like the NL Central, benefit from having weak teams all around us. It's really holding us back. Mexico was our only serious contention for the Gold Cup. For some reason, we own them lately, but they're still considered a much better team than we are.

And then we send a scrub team down to the South American championship, and make total fools out of ourselves. Granted, not all of our players could get released from their club teams to come play because it wasn't our regional championship, but still. The US is not considered a serious contender right now.

If we had to play better teams in qualifying, like they do in South America, then yeah, we'd get better. But when you have to play all these central american teams with less total population than the state of Rhode Island, you're not really proving anything.

I'm just saying that it's not because they don't enjoy the sport and lose interest. There's a lot of peer pressure to drop out of a "pussy" sport and participate in a "real" one, like football.

Even a guy like Chad Johnson has said that if soccer paid as well as the NFL, he'd love to play soccer. He even warms up on NFL fields with a soccer ball sometimes.

If I recall the new soccer stadiums they build now have a concert stage built in and they play high school football in it as well. Plus doesnt Cerner have one of its complexes right down the street and they own the Wizards, makes sense for them.

Must be easy for little billy to dish out the hits on the fifth graders when he 35 years old.. Hopefully he will crack the schoolyard allstar team this year..

:)

On Goal owns the Wizards. I don't think they're part of Cerner, but I could be wrong.

IT would be within walking distance of golddiggers

Oddly enough, I happened to watch the city council subcommittee meeting on local cable when they were discussing this. I think some facts here are inaccurate. First of all, 71% of the funding for the project was to be privately funded. Johnson County is even kicking in some money for this, although it was unclear how much.

The super TIF must pass, or the project will essentially be dead. No super TIF = no state funds = dead in the water. I doubt they'll present another funding option to the city if this fails. I'm sad to say it, but it seems like the city is more than happy to let this part of the city continue to decline. I'm not sure there is anything that could be placed out here that would be a success given the surrounding area. It's a real shame too because the mall sits at the intersection of three major highways, all of which are currently being renovated. Can't ask for a much better location.

There is some sort of Dean catipillar plant being built on 87th and 87th now is two lanes to 71.

I haven't read all of the responses but I think that they should just let that area die already. Knock everything down and plant some trees.

There's no point forcing a square peg into a round hole.

As soon as someone gets mugged in the parking lot all of the JoCo soccer moms are going to avoid the area like the plague.

JoCo needs to sack up and actually build it's own crap. It's nice being a leach community and all but you eventually need to contribute something. I would suggest The Legends area but that gets JoCo off the hook again.

And this is coming from one of the a-holes in JoCo.

I dont live in the KC area, but im familiar with it since i grew up there.

Ive seen projects like this, or similiar projects revitalize parts of other cities, why wouldnt it work in KC?

Shouldnt they at least try???

They did and it failed.

It's a wasteland. If Walmart can't survive a soccer stadium sure as shit won't.

IM sorry, but Wal-Mart doesnt usually attract the upscale crowd.

The upscale crowd won't want anything to do with this part of town.

--signed,
Kansas City, Kansas


If you build it, they will come.

Exactly. Give them a reason to come, and they will come.

You're comparing a field far from the crime ridden parts of KCK to a crime ridden part of KCMO that's chased off the upscale crowds once before.

They can't keep the Banister area crime free. They've tried and they failed.

I don't see the point of revitalizing every shit hole corner of the city. There's plenty of other areas that can accommodate a soccer stadium.

I grew up in the area.
I don't think it's nearly as bad as you believe it is.
It's not great, but it's not "Judgment Night," either.

Soccer's ****in reeruned anyways, I could give 2 shits less if they moved.

Soccer will NEVER be popular in America, period.

I've got family there. It's far from what it was, but it's not a DMZ like some are making it out to be.

There's a study out there that backs you up.

Crime statistics of area shopping centers

I think the area has more than its share of unsavory characters, but I think the danger was mostly imagined and not real when the mall started to decline. A strictly enforced 'No Loitering' law would have done wonders to prevent the downfall of the mall, but unfortunately the city didn't see it as a priority I guess. Hopefully this will be a lesson learned if this area does get a second chance.

I'm not sure what Walmart you are referring to exactly. The only Walmart in that immediate area was a Hypermart and that was in place long before the decline of the mall.

Walmart pulled a fast one on the city some time ago and actually built a new Walmart out where Blue Ridge Mall used to be. They promised to bring new jobs to that part of town when in reality, the just shut down the Hypermart and transferred the workers.

Maybe you were thinking of Blue Ridge Mall? :shrug:

The Traditional enclosed types of malls are a dying breed anyways because of exactly what happened to Bannister Mall. (Haven for teens, thugs, unsavory characters, etc)

All the new shopping Meccas being built these days are all open air.

The stadiums owned by AEG have stages built-in, which was a sticking point with Red Bull and why they're going to build Red Bull Park without any interference from AEG.

And yeah, soccer-specific stadiums often host other events around the year. Concerts, the X-Games (in LA), and high school football playoffs (in Dallas), specifically.

Maybe with a stadium that's not way too big for a crowd of 15,000, KC can generate an atmosphere like this rather than being one of the most depressing places to watch a game in the league. Section 8 did a good job at Soldier Field before Toyota Park was built, and DC fans do an amazing job at RFK, but those are definitely exceptions.

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That being said, Portland's Timbers Army is ****ing amazing for a USL-1 side:

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The problem you have is with the system. Yeah, the developers should do this on their own without tax breaks but that isn't the way the system works. And little ole KC with no cards on the table is going to force a change in the system?

The Fledgling soccer league folds 5 years from now doesn't matter to us does it? How much tax $'s are the taxpayers out? Zero. Nada. $0.00

WYCO has proved the concept if you build it they will come. If you can safely get JOCO soccer mom's and their daughters to come downtown at night to see Hanna Montana you can get them to come to a soccer complex right off the interstate.

The taxpayers are not putting any money into the deal Zero. Nada. $0.00.They are only allowing any future tax revenue to be put back into the infrastucture around the complex.

We can't afford to lose that future tax revenue is total BS. Without the TIF the project is dead. We are not giving up any future tax revenue because there is no project and the project goes down the road to the next city just like the Bass Pro Shop, Nascar, Legends etc.

BTW, I lived for 10 years behind Bannister Mall down 87th street. Hypermart was our grocery store etc. We saw the deteroiation coming just like everyone else and moved out to the burbs. I hate seeing the area like it is now.:(

It's been around for over a decade and revenues are steadily going up and new teams are being added. I don't think it's going to be folding any time soon.

I don't think so either. Phil was the one who said it might.

Yeah, I know. I was just expanding on your point :)

Freaking Tax breaks...who ends up paying? Taxpayers...amazing. Im with the Funk. If its a viable business it wont need tax breaks.

IM guessing tax breaks are how they lure investors to a crappy real estate location??

and we build...on the backs of taxpayers a failing business in a bad location? This is good?

Screw em.

MLS has too many really deep pockets to let it fold - AEG, Stan Kroenke, Bob Kraft, Hunt Family.

Like everything, its a gamble. Ive seen worse areas than Bannister revitalized by new contruction in other cities.

Not saying it doesnt need revitalization. But have no faith that soccer is the answer.