Tesla unveil Semi, new Roadster, & also teased a "pickup truck"
 

Anyone watch the unveil last night?


https://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/20...i-Front-78.jpg
The numbers on the semi destroyed what anyone thought possible.

- 0-60 in 5 sec
- 0-60 in 20 sec under max gross payload of 80k lbs
- 65mph up 5% grade under max lied, compared to 45mph for ICE semi
- 500 mile range
- 400 miles of additional range after 30 min charge
- Guaranteed 7¢/kWh fuel cost(solar) compared to volatile oil
- Nuclear explosion proof glass(apparently cracked windshield takes semi off road)
- 1 million mile guarantee it won't breakdown
- Will never need a brake change
- "Impossible" to jacknife
- Beats semis on economics day 1
- In convoy mode, beats rail on economics

300 miles of range: $150,000
500 miles of range: $180,000
Founders series: $200,000



http://m.nv.ua/img/article/22172/84_main_ukr.jpg
https://youtu.be/CBTQnmUolas
The Roadster was a complete surprise, and the numbers given destroy any production car you can think of, even a Koenisegg.

- 0-60 in 1.9 sec (this is faster than most Formula 1 cars)
- 0-100 in 4.2
- 1/4 mile in 8.9 sec
- 250+ mph top speed
- 621 mile range (That's Kansas City to Denver without fueling)
- 10,000 nm torque

and that's the base model. Starting at $200k and Founders series at $250k. Destroys million dollar cars.


https://electrek.files.wordpress.com...ll&w=566&h=253
Also teased a rendering image of a consumer pickup truck with a normal truck in the bed.

https://youtu.be/5n9xafjynJA

Gotta charge my car then we can leave. No thanks.

It'll be at full charge everyday when you wake up.

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Awesome, but they need to prove that they can actually produce these products. Terrible job thus far on the Model 3.

The logistics have to be a nightmare, but they have come a long way.

I found it pretty cool on our trip to Montana last year that we stopped in at least three gas stations that had Tesla charging stations.

One was actually being used and the car ended up passing us within an hour on the highway.

Electric motors have an advantage as they get up to rpm instantly thus the performance numbers.

Now the battery suppliers just needs to get their shit together.

Terrible job? They're barely behind an accelerated schedule.

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It's going to upend the trucking industry in the future. Self driving trucks, electric....

Reports are that their fit and finish on the 3 are pretty rough, gaps all out of whack, doors not lined up, etc, etc. I REALLY want them to be a good car company, but we'll have to wait and see.

Those are some amazing number but this one is the most mind-bottling IMO:

In convoy mode, beats rail on economics

Yeah. From a peddler if FUD. Wonder how much he's short sold the stock eh?

9 out of every 10 stories are negative. When the world's auto industry has been so scared that they have all vowed to start going all electric, you know anything negative you read is bullshit.

Worst negative ad campaign I've ever seen. Worse than the bullshit they're trying to peddle against SpaceX.

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Yeah, this. I wish they would consider licensing the actual drive and battery patents, because that shit is great, but the cars they put together are not my thing.

What an awesome car

agreed. People dont realize the performance aspects of electric motors. It is a beautiful thing. With electric, you can get max torque right to the wheels immediately. Petrol powered cars will never be able to match the power potential of electric.

The problem is that all the other manufacturers are working on their own tech, and most don't want to pay them. I do like that they have pushed the envelope, and I'm rooting for them to get their build quality up as I like the idea of having another American car company. They are showing how hard it is to start a car company.

It's not FUD to point out that the S and X have had lots of quality problems and receive low reliability ratings. Those are facts.

I wonder how the batteries would handle a 2900 watt digitally processed 12 speaker focal audio system?

I wonder if that would hurt the miles per charge?

A client of mine bought herself an S and it was just delivered last week. She made the dealer take it back to fix because...

Only cosmetic issues (that were noticeable, anyways), but when someone orders a brand new $80,000 car (her price with upgrades), I think it's reasonable to expect that it won't be chipped and scratched.

It is FUD. Initial quality/reliability and current quality/reliability are two different things.

Early Model S had issues with motors. They changed all out for free as part of their 8 yr, infinite mile warranty. That warranty covers everything.

They since decided they couldn't trust others to build their drive train, and brought the manufacturing in house. The goal is a one million mile guarantee. Given the semi uses the same motors as the Model 3, and the semi has a million mile guarantee, they are there.

Model X had reliability issues with the falcon wing doors mostly. It was brand new tech. Those issue have almost completely been resolved.

They get bad marks for taking the risk of innovating. Something Detroit hasn't done since electronic fuel injection. The risk is too great for them. They're pussies. They even got away from vertical integration after Japan ate their lunch in the 80's.

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I'm not a hater, it's an awesome product and innovative company. However, they only made 260 Model 3s during Q3.

Exciting stuff!

amazing! The future is now!

5 yrs later they'll all be automated and the poor truckers are out of business however. Not too mention undercutting the oil industry etc... I love it, but I also work in automation and see the future is bleak for the everyday worker.

But the question is, can you kick it's ass?

What's your point. They never promised more. Their internal goal was 1500/week run rate.

If they made 10 cars in the last hour of Q3, they achieved said goal. Only Wall Street would never report it that way b/c they focus on short-term, not long-term. Such is the nature of the daily closing bell.

The ramp will involve a lot of downtime to adjust line components for max efficiency. That's how production line optimization works. Only most companies slow the ramp to reduce downtime and increase production. That's not something Tesla is interested in. For them, long-term outweighs short-term.

Their big bottleneck is in the battery production gigafactory in Sparks, Nevada.

An unnamed systems integrator(probably Panasonic) dropped the ball on battery production ramp and Tesla learned of the problem too late. They had to completely rewrite 20-30 man years of software in a matter of weeks. Also had to rework many electrical and mechanical components.

To rewrite all that software likely took loads of manpower. I'd estimate 500+ software programmers/engineers. This is likely why the improvement of autopilot 2.0 has suffered as a result.

I think the future for the average worker will be amazing.

There's no way to avoid a bloody revolution against the rich, and a luddite revolution against their machines without universal basic income.

The worst part of the impending future is the lack of privacy and freedom for the independent spirit. People who crave that will need to go to Mars. Unless of course technology also allows us to reclaim much of the developed land. City densification and improved farming techniques such as vertical and container gardening should help.

Checked out Cummins?


https://cleantechnica.com/2017/11/14...c-truck-party/



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The initial goal was 5000/wk, not 1500/wk.

Product quality starting to suck on everything you buy but machines build it so they make it.

No. 1500/week by end of Q3 and a hopeful 5000/week by end of Q4.

At announcing these goals, they stated they were lofty and probably unachievable, such is the nature of an Elon Musk goal.

They've since readjusted their stated goal to reach 5000/week run rate to end of Q1 2018.

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Yeah. Tesla likely sent Cummins and Daimler back to the drawing board last night.

Cummins is Class 7 with a 100 mile range(don't see economics working), and Daimler is Class 8 with 220 miles of range.

Daimler might be an option for local routes or farmers if they can compete on price.

I'm not too worried about their delays in production. I just want to have a company from the US that is seen as at least as good as Toyota is viewed, you know? Having a great warranty is nice, but being without your car leaves a mark as well, so there has to be a balance there.

I think their loaner car is a Tesla Model S P100D standard.

They pick it up and drop off the loaner.

They also have a mobile fleet that can take care of most service in the field. So they fix it in the parking lot while you're inside at your desk working.

I get it, people want to find reasons to naysay, but they are quickly running out as Tesla knocks the arguments against them out of the water.

Hell, this is what they can achieve with today's battery tech. Right now. Once every auto manufacturer in the world has gone full EV by 2025-2030, the rate at which battery tech will improve will be ridiculous. The gains of even meager battery energy density improvements are immense.

If nothing else, I love that Tesla is pushing everyone else to get better. Hopefully they can figure out their production issues sooner than later.

Exactly! Too many years where the car companies looked at electric cars as these loathsome vehicles.
https://i1.wp.com/www.automark.pk/wp...size=710%2C334

Seems to me they should be viewing batteries as an interchangeable unit rather than a fixed piece of the vehicles. A Tesla station should have fully charged battery packs ready to switch out when you arrive. That may make design more of a challenge but would improve one of the big drawbacks, especially for trucks. You don’t own the batteries, but exchange them when you need a new charge. Battery replacement also seems like a huge sustaining capital cost that never gets figured in when looking at the costs. What is the lifespan? Maybe a few years if you are lucky?

I know they've considered that for the cars, but I haven't heard anything about that being a serious part of the game-plan for a while anyway.

I do agree that that would take care of the issue of having to sit around for an hour or two while it recharges.

That said, battery lifespan on the Teslas at least doesn't appear to be a huge concern.

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Just lift out the battery pack, sure tell your wife to run to the store for beer and while she is at it swap the batteries.

https://insideevs.com/wp-content/upl...10.42-1280.jpg

You can thank me for pointing this out because if you said it anywhere else but CP you would be flamed

I can't imagine what the insurance is like on these cars. Those things are all aluminum and they get a couple panels with dings on them and they can total them out.

0-60 in 1.9 seconds?

Good lord... :bolt:

They tried the battery swap route. Both they and the public weren't huge fans. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they don't do it for the Semi though. A lease agreement on the batteries could bring down the initial investment for buyers and reduce their unfounded anxiety on battery life.

Tesloop is operating a Model S with over 300,000 miles on it so far in just 2 yrs(?). School has over 90% capacity.

Tesla has brought in the world's leading battery excluded Jeff Dahn to try and help achieve some improvements.

One of the goals was you double the battery life. I think it was intended to be a 5 year protect. I think they double the expected battery life in a few months.

The completely arbitrary of 10 years is been assigned to the lifespan of the battery packso the soonest, we can infer that teslas battery packs may live above 80% capacity for I'll to 20 years.

In 10-20 yrs, the cost of knew batteries should be negligible compared with the savings in other maintenance and fuel savings.

What's the price tag for that semi?

Don't believe they've said. Just that operating expense is cheaper day one. For heavy users I'm sure.

I'd imagine savings on fuel and maintenance would be immense. Not to mention the value of certainty that comes with a known cost of operation.

I'd take a guess of $350-500k.

https://electrek.co/2017/11/17/tesla...ectric-trucks/

Orders already piling up. Truck expected on road in 2019.

when I drove OTR, I think I averaged about 6mpg.
2x 100gal tanks, and I was told by our safety team that "when you hit 1200 miles, you'd better know where you're getting fuel".

I never ran it to the point of being super low on fuel, but when I'd hit 1200 miles, the needle was definitely flirting with "E".

Aluminum has been used for a long time. ford f series trucks are aluminum bodies.

Comsumer Reports "Ford also claims that body-repair costs won't be any higher than for a steel-bodied truck."

How does one get access to the batteries to swap them? This whole platform must be removed and then cells can be accessed.

https://insideevs.com/wp-content/upl...10.42-1280.jpg

That "pickup truck" is ridiculous looking. I'll keep my real vehicles.

Likewise, that thing looks like a bad Mad Max knockoff.

http://vehicleshowcase.madmaxmovie.c...llery/car3.png

Pushing everything forward is what matters. Musk is slowly doing what our worthless Congress refuses to do by getting America off of gasoline.

I imagine it's actually to take place of medium duty trucks like Isuzu and Fuso etc. Shouting it as a pickup, but will likely have multiple options for beds in various lengths.

it's a box truck not a pick up

I will wait to see what Cummins brings out. There have been electric trucks spotted around here recently.

I am in the crowd... Where's Cooper?

As someone who drives cars, I'm not sure that I want to share the road with semis that have really fast acceleration.

or one that probably will need new brakes and interior fabric when the "never need brakes again" truck goes down the grade he bragged about it going up....

Cummings already came out with theirs, 100 mile range

EV's typically need brake jobs far less often than gas-powered cars due to regenerative braking.

I know it’s not a 9-volt battery powering the car. I said they should be considering how to make the batteries swappable. Clearly they are not right now. You would need some infrastructure and powered lift equipment but they need to consider that especially for the trucks. Have them lower from under the vehicle so you drive over a pit like an oil change and they lower the batteries on a hydraulic lift or something like that.

Its a class 7 used for regional shipping. I think they are increasing that and adding on the road charging options to it. It is there first rodeo in electric.

I was talking about surviving "widow maker" downhill grades on regenerative braking. No, no, no, give me some bad ass brakes and not electric ones either...

Well, sure, but you realize they have "real" brakes too, right? They just don't need them as much.

It will be interesting but a service center can easily pull a cab off for access and quickly too,,, A few bolts an a couple of wiring loom connections and you can hoist it off, do same with semi tractors now.

Electric brakes on an electric semi? I'm waiting to see what they do for redundancy systems which are normally reduced capacity.

I am not sold on pure fly by wire brakes either but thats what we are all going to have soon.

Why not? Should do wonders for traffic congestion. Especially in LA area.

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Man, you really don't understand electric drive trains do you?

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Don't forget, Class 7 also

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They've done it. People weren't terribly interested. Costs too much for customers and Tesla isn't interested in negative revenue programs to make it affordable.

80% charge in 20 minutes not good enough?

Probably 400-500 miles in 20-30 minutes for the new Roadster.

Mind you, you'll have a full battery every morning upon waking up. How often do most people drive more than 200 or 300 miles in a day? I drive more than most daily, and I don't touch that.

https://youtu.be/FE81S26XG8c

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooper barrett (Post 13222133) Its a class 7 used for regional shipping. I think they are increasing that and adding on the road charging options to it. It is there first rodeo in electric.

I won't.

You might be surprised. When up until recently EV and HB cars have been very light, now we are talking about 80,000lbs vs 3-5000lbs.
I am saying, I want to see the redundancy systems for brakes that they use.

What the hell kind of rubber do you have to have on a truck to get to 60 in 20 seconds weighing 80? Given how my 30 HP electric irrigation motors make my electric meter sing like a songbird, I can't imagine what hooking up a few trucks will do. Whee!

I'd be on board though. As long as it has solid connections for the rough ass roads in my neck of the woods, I can put 100,000 on it (but if anybody asks, it was 85 when I pulled out of the shop), and it can handle a ridiculous amount of dust from the county roads.

I would be interested in the math on that. Pure transportation costs, I doubt, but if you're going to add in costs for loading/unloading I'd like to know what those are. It may be just a semi trailer on a flat train car. Those numbers would be easier to believe.

I've been vaping for a while and I keep my eye/ear out for li-on battery news. Industries like this push development and we seem to end up with whatever batteries are most popular and stable. I've heard that someone had a breakthrough recently with solid state lithium ion batteries. Could be a huge game changer.

0-60 in 1.9?

too much power for the street ,

people will get hurt.

Graphene batteries are coming

I'd never really thought about it, but it seems like semis are the best use of Tesla technology. I wonder why they haven't built one before.

If someone discovers a way to recharge the battery in less than 10 minutes or creates a swap system, it's game over.

I's going to have to have a generator onboard to charge it under emergencies. That's what Cummins is going to do.

https://electrek.co/2017/11/14/fiske...electric-cars/

“Fisker’s solid-state batteries will feature three-dimensional electrodes with 2.5 times the energy density of lithium-ion batteries. Fisker claims that this technology will enable ranges of more than 500 miles on a single charge and charging times as low as one minute—faster than filling up a gas tank.”

An electric 40 class A RV??? I am in give a Gen that will charge batts when needed and use them when not plugged in. Price: no object???

That's good, shortage of drivers now, however, it will be a job killer. Have to have on board computers in the trailers to allow access.


Plus the warehouse and consignees have to have the new computer equipment to communicate with the truck and it's pay load.

What about the flatbed and oversize freight that needs to move, who is going to do this work?

This, plus I have other concerns, inclement weather. Is this 80,000 lb rig going to be able to handle a 5* grade up or down in snow and icy conditions. It will shut down most likely when an experience driver will get through being able to feel the road through his power train.

1st time a chip goes out and that thing wipes out human life, the shit is revisited all over again.

Tesla is only throwing the beef on the fire, their not telling us the cow lived a good life and was humanly slaughtered....We have to wait for that.. Teslas sales of these things are only for a place in line. $5K deposit is refundable.

https://www.technologyreview.com/the...-cost-exactly/

I can't wait until they make an electric pickup that matches my Chevy 2500 diesel. That will be awesome.