Hunting type things.....
 

Its fall. Bow season has opened in at least Missouri and Iowania. I thought we could discuss related topics. Tips, braggin', near misses....

relay your hunting stories, pics and tips here.

anti hunting types.....find another corner to squat in.

I have been training retrievers as an amature for about 10 years. Both for field trial and gun dogs. I have two labs at present. Have had others that were trained and sold.

Labs from certain breeds (I should say line not breed) will point. It isn't new but some folks who have dogs that follow this characteristic are trying to get them recognized as a true line. One of my labs points on occasion when hunting pheasants. But I feel that is just an individual characteristic of that particular dog. Most of the time she blows right through the bird trying to eat it. If it can't fly or climb a tree, it will get caught.

I always start my dogs off early with pigeons. Around 6-7 weeks old. I start obediance training at 4 months and bird dog training at 6 months.


Important factors for training bird dogs is teaching the dog to hunt for a bird that has been knocked down. This drill, in my opinion is the single most important skill a dog can learn. And it can be done in the back yard.

We started our regular waterfowl season here last Sat. We have an early goose season that started 1 Sep. We slayed 'em. I should post up some pictures of the 'ol Duck Dog with his real duck dogs.


I'm actually guiding a pheasant hunt in Iowa this year. Around Mason City. I've never hunted there, so I'm really excited about it.

Bow season for Deer just started here in KS too yesterday and I was in my treestand right after I got off of work. I didnt sit there five minutes and two does came by me into the milo field...they lingered out of range for about 10 minutes and then came back by me, but this time they came within my shooting lane and...WHAMMO...good shot. I waited 30mins before I got down out of my stand, found he arrow and commenced to trailing her, knowing that I had a good shot on her I fully expected to go over the next hill and drag her out, but NO, she slowly walked and walked, crossed a river (with just enough water to come over the top of my boots), up a 12 foot bank, through more junk, down into a muddy creek bed....then we lost the trail after tracking her for 3 hours! I went back this morning, found last blood and began tracking again...she climbed in and out of a 15 foot bank two more times and I finally found her 80 yds from where we stopped looking...coyotes had a feast. I was disappointed and my buddies said that is just part of hunting but I dont feel right about it. I know that I did all I could to take this game properly but luck wasnt on my side this time.

I do my bowhunting w/ a 12 gauge.
LC Smith, kinda old.

Seriously, I don't think I could get close enough to bag any game w/ a bow. Sounds like a hoot though...

Can't wait to go w/ the old man.

BigVE, I've done a lot of hunting around central Kansas.

I heard there are tons of ducks already there. I won't be able to get down there until late November. I hunt mainly the Clay Center area. I love Kansas so much more than Minnesota.

duck
My dog is actually from some line of fancy Duck dogs...the damn was like an "arkansas 7.5-8.5 mark" or something like that.....but I've never hunted ducks. I'd like to get him to find birds, lock up and flush them....and retrieve them when I shoot.

When you say "start" them with retrieving down birds....what type of things are you actually talking about? how do you use those pidgeons? Someone said somethign about getting a pheasant wing and some scent but I don't have a clue what to do when I get it?

I've got treestands hung and have shot my bow some, but not enough.....something else is getting in the way of bow hunting for the next couple of weeks and then I'll hit it hard the end of the month on......

I find I'm putting pretty tight groups(tight enough for me) the in a baseball/softball area at 20-25yds......but I'm quite a bit further off when i shoot the broadheads.......I suppose I need to spend some time fine tuning them a little.

Tip...
Have any of you head of "sneakyleaf camo enhancer"...seach it on Cabela's.......Its basically 10 "plastic" oak leaves that you safety pin to your camo to break it up.......cost around $20/bag

I found a great alternative. Walmart, Hobby Lobby...lots of places.....sell these "strings" of decorative fall leaves.....they are the same darn thing..take the leaves off the "vines" and get some safety pins.........6' pieces with alot more leaves are around $5.

I washed my camo last night in scent free soap, sprayed it down with carbon blast, earth scent and acorn spray....dropped in some scent waifers and zipped it in a bag.....after I pinned on 20 or so leaves. Looks pretty damn good.

After an upcoming event.....i'm going to take some more of the "leaves" and zip tie it around my stands.

I had a similar experience a few years back. I was walking a new area and crouched behind a big fallen tree overlooking a river bottom. I wasn't there 5 minutes and a nice doe came within 40 feet down the hill. I got a nice shot, waited a while, went the other direction and got my buddy. We started tracking about 9:00 am, I ended up crossing a creek that was up to my chest and was actually able to pick up the blood trail on the other side, but couldn't locate the deer. I went back the next day and looked for several more hours and never did find the deer.

I live 3 miles from Cheyenne Bottom and 15 miles from Quivira Wildlife refuge so with these two places in such close proximity there are literally thousands and thousands of birds that migrate through here. I am not much into the duck/goose hunting but I know at different times last year there were over 200,000 ducks and geese at both of these locations and one a couple of occasions estimates were around 500,000! Duck hunting is VERY popular here and guys come from all over the country to hunt here and its in my back yard basically and I dont even hunt for them....go figure. I am looking forward to pheasant season but thats about it for my bird hunting...i have a buddy that has a dog that was trained by some guy who has trained several field champions...it s a blast just to watch the dog do its thing.

I've hunted there many times. Used to have permission to hunt just north of Turners. Not sure if you know where taht is. But most around there do.

Now that I'm out of state, I hunt just a few spots a year in Kansas. All private ground around the Milford wetlands. beautiful country.

For pointing, tie the pheasant (or quail) wing to the end of the leader on a fly rod. Go out in your back yard and drag it around to leave a trail, let your dog track it and just before your dog pounces on it, jerk the wing into the air and let it land in a different spot. Keep doing this until your dog gets tired, and then you’ll start seeing some beautiful pointing. The key here is to never let your dog catch the wing.
As for retrieving, I’ve always had troubles when my dog doesn’t see the bird drop and would take advice from someone more experienced than me.

My favorite part of bird hunting. Great dog work makes for great times.

If you have a true pointing lab from pointing lab lines and want the dog to point like a real pointer I would suggest taking him to a pointing lab trainer. I am a bit of a purist and I like my labs to flush. Just a preference.

I introduce pidgeons to my dogs with their wings taped and legs bound with a rubber band. I do this for the puppies so the birds don't fly offf and can't scratch them. Bigger dogs only the fly aways arte a concern.

Drag a bird through the grass and hide it in the shrubbs, tall grass, wood pile, or whatever. Coax the dog into that area and say dead or dead bird. if the dog trys to leave the area, call it back into the area and continue until the dog finds the bird. When the dog finds it, praise it like it's never been praised before. Do not use treats to praise. Do this 2 or 3 times a day. Use different spots in the yard, because the dog will always remember certain spots have produced 'his' bird. The dog will want to go back to those spots.

This drill not only teaches the dog to hunt a bird that wounded or dead and lost to your sight but will also help bring out the natrual birdiness of the animal.

Teach obediance. encourage the animal to be birdie.

Since your dog came from a line of gun dogs or field trial dogs, chances are good the dog has a good sense of birdiness and a willingness to retrieve. The two very most important factors of any good retriever.

There are other important training advances for bird dogs. Such as teaching them not to break when birds are landing or when someone shoots. Or delivering the bird to hand. These are things that most likely the dog will not do natrualy and must be taught. There are exceptions.

You should decide what you want the dog to do and teach him to do it.

I would suggest hooking up with a pro in your area.

I like the Milford area its really nice. I have a few buddies that hunt around turners on occasion...its a popular spot.

Being an owner of an overpriced, overtrained and altogether useless labrador frisbee/stick retriever, I'm no expert on hunting. However, I do know a thing or two about dogs. Here's a couple of online communities you might look into on training yours.

Of course, Duck Dog seems to have a pretty good handle on things:

http://www.lab-retriever.net/board/f...?s=&forumid=29

Crap, I can't find the other one right now. Anyway, you might take a look there if you have any advice. One word: most of the people there are nicey nice dog lovers, not rough-and-tumble shitheels like us Planeteers;)

Solid advice. If you go to the link that I gave you, you can probably get someone to hook you up with a retriever club in your area that will be able to offer you advice.

duck...
I've never had a bird dog....I don't really care if he "points" but I do want him to flush birds, but not 50yards ahead of me.

I should probably get ahold of some of the local pheasants forever guys and see if one them them can help me along.

Oh, I might as well pimp my former employers while I'm on here. If you're looking for high-quality hunting equipment (Gore-Tex clothing and the like) at super low prices, check out www.sierratradingpost.com

They have absolutely amazing deals. They also have a catalog designed specifically for hunters called Sierra Outdoors, but if you get on their list, prepare to be bombarded at the rate of 2 catalogs a week.

Heres a site with many resources for gun dog onwers and trialers alike.

Working Retriever Central

It's worth a look.

For you bow hunters, a possible WORLDS RECORD was shot in Minnesota this year, rumor has it about 20 miles from me.

Here's a link to a local pro shop who had this to say about it;


Magnum Sports

That would be a great idea. Training with others will help.

Make sure the dog knows the 'come' or 'here' command first. When you work the dog call him to you before he reaches yoyur desired range, call the dog to you when as he quarters. The dog will learn to turn when you call him. This will also teach the dog quarter better instead of running straight ahead. Some tether the animal to a 50 or 100 foot rope. But I believe if the dog knows his 'here' command you can control him while he hunts without using a rope.

Make sure the dog knows sit, heal and here. Or nothing else may matter.

Hey Duck:

You ever heard of these fellas?

http://wareagleretrievers.com/

This is where we board our worthless lapdog when we go to Chief's games. We keep hopin' that staying in those kennels right next to their field trial dogs will rub off on our dog through osmosis or something.

Hasn't worked yet. :shake:

Anyway, evidently they're pretty big in the Great Outdoor Games and such. We found them after my dad saw them on ESPN. He said we should look into them, since they're in our area. Turns out that their boarding prices are way cheaper than anyone else ($12 a day).

Super nice guys, too.

Duck....thanks for the start advice.

I've been working with him on Come! Sit! Lay Down! and trying to work on Stay for a while...not so much luck with that. I've been having him fetch and retrieve sticks, balls etc.....but I'm having trouble getting him to release on command.

Heal has been a sore spot too...Brideowanian has been walking him...well....he's walking her....so I bought a pretty vicious neck poker.....seems effective so far.

I need to find a wing and some scent I suppose.

Iwonian,
Here's a link to a few articles writen by John and Amy Dahl, owners of Oak Hill Kennels. It's pretty hard to find pro's who give such details for free. I generaly agree with a lot of what they say. There is a few articles about pups and getting them started and teaching here and such.

Oak Hill Kennels

!3 days till general deer season opens, and 28 days untill my first Elk tag is valid. :D

I got a call from my brother, who hunted one of my stands today....

said there were deer everywhere eating acorns....as early as 2pm.......and a 9pnt buck walked under him....between the ladder and tree.

New Chief, I hadn't heard of them before but from the looks of their web site they have a good operation going. I noticed they aren't traing for trials but rather for gun dogs and HRCH's and AKC Hunt Test dogs. Those will make the best gun dogs.

If one can afford it, a pro is always the best way to go for a finished product.



Anyone heard about that possible World Record buck from MN yet?

boat guys.....

I've got a 1986 Mercury outboard 50horse motor.....in need of a prop.

I don't claim to know much about them...but need a new prop....and am looking on ebay before other places....

Does anyone know "what" prop that motor requires or where I can look to find out?

http://www.gundogmag.com/training/

I used to hunt with a guy whose lab stayed religiously on heel all day, til we walked up a pheasant or two and dropped 'em. Then the dog ran out on command, found the dead birds and brought 'em back, just like he did when we went duck hunting. Hey, we NEVER lost a bird, and that earns a years worth of kibble IMHO.

A book I'd recommend is Gun Dog by Richard Wolters.

I've actually got a signed copy
:thumb:

Great book. A -little- outdated, but many of the fundamentals definitely apply. Especially when you're talking about a recreationalist with a pup.

well...If NFTs are the subject of the day....

How big of a buck do other bow hunters "let go"? Do you have a specific size a buck must be before you'll take it?

I don't.....but I let alot of smaller ones go....I'll let that basket 8-9 go, hoping to see it again next year.

i'll shoot at an 8 w/a bow, but i dont mind letting them walk away at all. having any deer walk under your stand is a victory in itself.
sec

Flushed a 10 pointer on the back 40 twice, fuggers been roamin the tree line between the fence and the woods.

Depends if I'm on public or private land. Public land, I'll kill just about the first deer I see. The private land I hunt is managed, so we let the basket racks go. We shoot mainly does or bucks over 5 years old. I personally can't tell how old a deer is by looking at it from a tree. I just always tell the others;

"I had to let several pass because they were too young. So I took this doe instead."

I took a doe the first weekend. Now I'm concentrating on the soon to be migrating flocks of waterfowl.

I am going to try and get a fox kill with a bow on film this year though. I shot 3 last year and one of them was 15 yards away. Bad thing about capturing it on film is that it puts more people out there and those little carniverous buggers have spome excellent noses.

Well that sounds like a nice little boat, not that I know much about them.
My Gear-Head Uncle’s got one that’s a little different. It’s an old 22’ closed bow with a Ford 460 cid engine that he’s bored and stroked out to around 600 cubes.
He can’t really get on it out of the hole because it’s a jet drive and the drive doesn’t have the capacity to handle the big blocks torque (the drive needs a bigger capacity inlet and heavier duty impeller).
Once water is flowing through the jet drive though, he can lay into the throttle and almost throw a grown adult out of their seat. He likes messing with jet skiers with it; they never expect a boat to be keeping up with them.

On hunting dogs i've been looking to buy acouple fell terriers or patterdales little bastards are some hunt game SOBs.

Check it out. not bad for dog that are between 8-30#.


Graffic hunt pics. If you dont like blood and dead critters dont friggin look.

http://www.masonpatterdales.00go.com/photo4.html


http://www.linruffkennels.00go.com/photo6.html

http://www.linruffkennels.00go.com/photo4.html

http://users.skynet.be/cloot.patterdale/working.html

http://www.geocities.com/underground...NTINGPAGE.html

BigVE,

2 questions for you. 1. Where did you hit the doe? Could you tell or was the body too mangled? 2. What type of broadheads are you using.

Iowanian,

The makers of the tri-tronics shock collars have a book about retriever training. Half the book is about collar training, but the other half is about regular training for hunting purposes. The non-collar portion is very good.

If you want an obedient dog in the field you have to drill the basic obedience at home. By "drill" I don't mean to connote a heavy hand, but just that you have to sometimes keep reverting back to the basics.

Sadly, I've let EVERYTHING go by last year and will probably do so again this year too as what time I do have to hunt will be used to (hopefully) finish up the training on my pair of English Pointer bird dogs.

However, when I DO hunt deer, I typically will pass on the smaller racked deer. If it is late in the season I will usually go ahead and stick an 8 pointer if he has decent mass and spread, but would pass on him early in the season.

Man, Patterdales are vicious little killers. Get a bunch of them and kill as many varmits as you can. Varmits eat everything from pheasants, quail and ducks and all their eggs. Once winter starts and our bird seasons close, I can be found calling in coyotes and fox. If you see a racoon, opposum, skunk or cat in the ditch....shoot the fugger.

You people suck. Passing up on 8 pointers? The deer in N.J. aren't managed for trophy sized antlers. They tend to prefer the quantity over quality method.

Whenever I "pass" on deer it always comes back to haunt me.

The only other time I pass on deer is before I run it over in my F250.

The last time I went deer hunting, it was first day of rifle season and I saw a doe walk through my firing lane about 100 yards away. I passed on her thinking I had another two weeks of season left. That was a mistake, didn’t get another chance at a shot.

Do you know any kennels in MO.

I already hunt hogs in west OK w/ my pitbulls.

Looks something like this with Plotts as baydogs and pits as catch dogs step in with a knife fun and dangerous at once like fishing sharks in the water.

http://www.dogsonhogs.org/

http://www.baydog.com/

You haven't seen how big they get out here in KS I take it.;)


I do know about the regrets on passing up deer. There have been times I have passed on one early in the season and never got so much as another shot all season.

Man, you boys are crazy. I'd love to ry that sometime. I'm ordering that video.

What do you all feed your catch dogs? Pigs, cats?

I know some kennels in Mo and KS but all of the retriever/bird dog variety.

Speaking of videos and bow hunting, check out this video.

This guys name is Tim Wells. He and his buddies shoot everything from frogs to grizzly bears. Shoots a compound bow unaided, traditional release.

Great footage.

That's freaking brutal! :eek:

Chiefnj: The doe was pretty well messed up/ate up, but I could tell that I had hit her high and back a bit...as for the broadheads, well thats where I was a bit irritated. I ordered some new broadheads from Cabela's but they were here for opening day so I borrowed an older but brand new broadhead from a friend...I DID take the time to sight my bow in using this broadhead, not sure what kind it was...maybe a "twister"...? I do know that if I had made a bit better shot it would not have mattered what kind of broadhead I used. I finally got my new broadheads yesterday, Im using the Magnus Stinger four blade 100gr, will report back on how THIS one works. lol By the way, I was sighting my bow in today and these were the best flying broadheads that I have ever tried/seen, on the package it says that they should fly as well or better than even mechanical broadheads...so far so good.

Alright...now I'm jealous, or bent....not sure which.

http://desmoinesregister.com/sports/...888/index.html

15 year old kid, on a youth season hunt with muzzle loader kills a 38 point buck that is scoring over 300 on BC.....supposedly a new record.

I wonder if this deer could be the Buck in Larry Zach's "Old Rivals".....I know pics of one of those bucks(as well as a barn) came from very very close to where this deer was killed.

Is ther a picture of the buck on that Link, I have never seen a 38 point buck.

no....the rack in the link is this buck, from a previous year. The Article says that the dad is "negotiating" with magazines and stuff to get exclusive pics and the story of the kids lottery jackpot. They're trying to cash in...and I don't blame them.

I saw a 35 point stag buck at a hunting ranch close to where I grew up...they sold it to some ranch in Pennsylvania last year I think.

I will more likely than not, never see anything close to this in my lifetime. Its not common to see a 10-12 point close enough to shoot. A BC 140-150 class deer is a thing to be very proud of....and this kid kills a 330class.

He's ruined. should stop hunting now.

just the rack.
sec

I don't even think it is THE rack, just a previous rack shed by the same deer. The article says they are shopping photos of THE rack to different magazines to see who will pay the highest. It's probably a smart thing to do. Me, I'd be so damn happy, I'd be posting my picture everywhere.

I can't believe he went and hacked the antlers off. I think I would have mounted that whole damn deer...uh, I mean had it stuffed...er, taxidermied.

Ruk...
those are sheds from a previous year.

I have no doubt that the deer will be mounted......probably sell replicas of the antlers for mounts for Cabela's, Bass Pro etc...

Gotcha! :thumb:
I was wondering how they could even measure B & C without the head.
I was checking in a deer one time and there was a guy with a hacksaw cutting through one of the nicest racks I've ever seen in my life. I stood there watching :eek: :spock:

I posted earlier about a guy here in Minnesota who is having a deer scored right now that is also a possible worlds record. A friend has the picture and has yet to forward it to me, when he does I'll post it. It was shot about 20 miles from my house. This one was killed with a bow.

He too is negotiating who gets to print his picture and stuff. They will make money off of everyone from the weapon manufacture to the boots they had on. And they should too.

I'll post up a pic of it when I get it.

Cabelas pays big bucks (pun intended) for the real thing. I've heard they are offering the guy here in MN, 250K for the real one. I'd tell 'em to get stuffed (pun intended). He'll make that much off showing it at state fairs every year.

This thread just made me go open up my gun safe and eyefug my guns. I am ready to get after it! I should be out knocking grouse down today with my yellow labrador. :shake:

Hey Iowanian
Don't know about training for upland birds with a retreiver, Ive run pointers for years, most have just taken to it without much training. I'm now training my lab puppy on retreiving from the pond that's going very well, not much of a duck hunter but shes going to be a good one!
Far as the lab goes get you some quail or chukar and plant them. I would work on her holding the point if it was me, seems like most labs won't hold a point long. There more of a point and flush which is ok if your in gun range. I prefer pointers for that stuff as most of them will hold a point all afternoon if they have to, which is good cause there usually 200 yards in front of me...hehe. Good luck let us know how it turns out.

Rumor has it, that this is a pic of the buck that kid killed in Albia IA...taken a year or two ago.

http://forum.prohound.com/viewtopic....ighlight=albia

Anna Nichole would be jealous of that rack.

I'll be in a tree before the sun comes up through monday....If A buck HALF that size walks under my tree in shooting light, I'll be a happy, happy man.

Up until the 50 mile per hour winds kicked in last night, it has been in the 80's around here for the last week. (It is Oct right) We have been breaking record highs for days now.:grr: Not exactly great hunting weather. I can't even get fired up about going after big game until I see some snow on the ground.

Today, highs in the 50's which is more like it for this time of year. I have been out a few times and doing some scouting and when it does snow, I may leave my wife an 8x10 so she remembers what I look like, and be gone for days. :bang:

I"m expecting a cold snap starting tonight...It should get cool enough to get the deer moving and in the mood for love.

That would be nice. The deer don't "get in the mood" around here until just before Thanksgiving most of the time. Slow rut around here.:huh:

The Rut hasn't started, and probably won't until the first week of Nov....or somewhere in there.....The Prerut should start soon though....the bucks will get "curious", start roaming and sparring a little.

If its too warm, it will be the 2nd week I suppose....A cold snap could probably start it next week.

What do I know.....I'm just a bird watcher anyway.

Hey Iowanian

What’s this bs I saw in the paper the other day that the tree huggers are keeping you from hunting Dove up in Iowa.
Dove hunting is great sport and they are tasty lil rascals to boot.

I cannot wait until the season gets here. Unfortunately, that's not until December 1st, here in PA. I used to go bow hunting but I always used an old re-curved bow with no sights. Needless to say, I didn't shoot shit with that. Nope, i'm more of a rifle/pistol/shotgun hunter. Turkey hunting is awesome too.

I've had those kind of days.ROFL

I remember one elk hunting trip years ago when I had the squirrel from hell jumping from tree to tree raising the roof on me as I tried to put the sneek on some elk. This thing was the Norm Bates of squirrels! It kept jumping from tree to tree following me around the woods for over an hour and warning everything within a mile that there was danger in the woods. It started getting dark and my day was over. At that point in time I was shooting a 7 Mag. :evil:

Brian, I'd heard that, but didn't pay much attention as I've never hunted doves. I do like shooting pidgeons flying out of hay mows though.

nd,
We're big shotgun hunters too. I don't like slugs flying over my head so much, so I think we're toning down the group hunt this year. I seem to enjoy bow hunting more every year, and shotgun a little less....a little.

Group hunt? I didn't know yall did such a thing. I'd love to get out of this place for a good hunt sometime. Not saying PA doesn't have a ton of wildlife, but i'm interested in seeing what else is out and about.

Shotgun hunting deer is a different game than rifle hunting.

Basically what we do is have "drivers" and "blockers"....

Imagine a timber or series of ravines/trees that funnel down into an open field. We put "blockers" at the ends of the funnels and other places where deer kick out(in small herds)..or bucks kick back every year.....Others scatter in incriments (every 40-50 yards) through a timber, or on each draw....and "push" through.....Pushers can shoot them too, but usually its the blockers that get the action......which is handy, because its usually easy to get trucks there to load the game.

This year, we may try going out on opening day and just catching them in pattern.....and then fill tags the other way.

Its fun, good exercise...and wipes out some of the car crushing, corn eating pests. There are more deer "here" than we know what to do with. Unfortunately for you....out of state deer tags are now $300.....it sucks, and I told the gov as much a month ago.

7 Mag??? You sure that's enough gun for a squirrel???


:D

That day it was. :eek:

Serves him right, no one likes a snitch anyway.
That’s why I’ll shoot Killdeer whenever I think I can get away with it.
I’m sure you know what I’m talk’n ‘bout Pastor.

Those damn birds are worse than squirrels in the nark department. :shake:

Iowanian, I've always been curious but never have gotten a satisfactory answer, why is it that Iowa doesn't allow rifle hunting for deer?


BTW, Deer drive from someplace other than heaven... We are working a huge draw in NE Missouri (almost at the iowa line) and dad is a blocker. (actually, we had worked a number of smaller ones on the way to this one and had gotten a fair ways from the truck) He sees a big buck come out of the draw about 400 miles up and try to circle back up the draw. Dad shoots the legs out from under it (Stepped it off and it was amost 450 yards when he shot it). he gets up to the deer, finishes it off then we find out that someone put a gate up with a handly lock on it so we can't drive down close to where the deer is. That is when we started a drag that lasted for what felt like 10 miles.

Here is just part of the story;

Iowa, has surfaced as an unlikely battleground for hunters and the anti-hunting movement.

When sportsmen and pro-hunting groups pushed for an initiative that would legalize dove hunting in the state, anti-hunters pushed back -- and showed just how much might they have.

In 2000, the debate became so heated that national anti-hunting groups such as Fund for Animals and pro-hunting forces such as the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance became involved.

Each side made highly emotional pleas to the public.

The pro-hunters pointed out that the dove was a challenging gamebird that was legal game in 39 other states. They pointed out that though the dove was small, it is tasty game. And they maintained that because Iowa has one of the largest populations of doves in the nation, hunting would not endanger bird numbers.

The anti-hunters asserted that the dove is a songbird that should not be hunted. They pointed to the fact that the dove was known as the "bird of peace," and wasn't a bird of the hunting fields. It had been protected since 1918, they said, and it should remain that way.

The campaign got ugly. At one point, members of a five-man committee supporting dove hunting claimed to have gotten what they thought was a death threat from an anonymous letter writer.

No animal-rights group accepted responsibility for writing the letter. In fact, the anti-hunting movement accused pro-hunting groups of fabricating the letter to get sympathy for their cause.

Whatever the case, the pro-hunting bill passed in both chambers of the Iowa Legislature. But the anti-hunters weren't done. They mounted a furious last-minute campaign, urging Iowans opposed to dove hunting to contact Gov. Tom Vilsack.

In January 2001, Vilsack vetoed the bill, saying, "The majority of Iowans do not support changing the current law to legalize dove hunting. My office has received contact from thousands of concerned Iowans regarding this issue and my conclusion is that this policy is not right for our state at this time."

Here is the link for the full story:

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...rs/7040329.htm

These nuts want to stop all hunting.

I do really enjoy deer hunting out here. First off, we have both Muleys and whitetail and all can get extremely large. I love to hunt in the sandhills where there are a lot of sage and yuca plants. Get up on a large hill and start glassing. Sometimes we can glass for an hour or better but sooner or later you almost always find a pack of deer. Usually though you find several bunches but are looking for the big deer and keep looking. Once a big one is located, you start a stalk. Now, with a rifle this isn't too bad, but with a bow it can be the ultimate test of your abilities. It's hard to sit in a tree stand again after hunting like that.