Another thing...


Where in the h_ll did this "energy crisis" come from? There was no crisis a year ago, or even 6 months ago. Why didn't anyone see such a "crisis" coming? If oil supplies are running short, why are there no "Sorry, we're out of gasoline" signs at gas stations ANYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY?

Energy was not a hot topic until after the election, when all of this madness seemed to begin.

Isn't it fairly reasonable to assume that oil companies greased enough palms of those currently in power to be allowed to "F" the American public? Nothing like this happened in the 8 years prior to the election, even with "Pinko Commie Tree-huggers" in control of the country.

Clint, can't really offer insight on what's happening in the Midwest. All I know is that some few companies right now are making a ton of money on resources that are necessities.

Thank goodness Enron or BP don't own the water or else that would be $100/kilowatt hour or $3/gallon too...

I have always conserved because I believe conservation is a good practice. And now I am conserving as much as I can. No travel unless absolutely necessary. Walk as much as possible.

I think the issue was NOT the election. The issue is that these "big" mergers, which were supposed to be "good" for the economy and shareholders, were lousy for the consumer. Limited choices and arbitrarily limiting the market. That's not capitalism, that's extortion.

Oh, and I almost forgot. These big mergers were approved by the Clinton administration. California energy "deregulation" was authored by a Democrat.

Bottom line... bribery talks...

My overall impressions/prejudices are that

(i) movements in prices (up or down) are good because they provide information to producers and consumers who can alter their behavior accordingly

(ii) that (i) only applies in uncorrupted (i.e. competitive and responsibly-regulated markets) markets

(iii) that the oil market is relatively uncorrupted and people can expect supplies to increase, which will then drive prices back down

(iv) that the electricity market is relatively corrupt, owing in large part to the special position of electricity providers in our country as large-scale, longstanding, geographically-defined but interlocked natural monopolies, which somehow makes politicians and pundits peculiarly unable to resist falling for their bullshit.

I'm fairly sure about (i) and (ii); I'm not so sure about (iii) and (iv). As I've said, these are just my impressions. I could envision arguments that could convince me that I'm wrong.

Ok, the world according to Chuck:

First who said that oil is cheap right now? I don't know the exact price, but I do know that OPEC just finished a meeting last month where they agreed to cut back production to bump the oil price. If they cut production last month, then the higher priced oil should be hitting the pumps right about now. Supply and demand ladies and gents.

Second, go to a mall and count the SUV's, minivans, and Ram trucks. These guys get around 17mpg. What did you expect to happen to the price of gas? Sooner or later it was certain to happen. That pesky supply and demand thing again.

Third, there was a major refinery fire in Cali (or Texas I foget which). Since the eco-types have enacted legislation that basicly bans building of new refineries they operate at around 95% capacity. When one goes down the impact is magnified. Supply and demand.....

Fourth, the oil companies are making a ton, but so is guvment. The federal gas tax is about .30/gal. Tack on whatever your state tax is and do the math. 'Big oil', whatever that is, isn't totally innocent, but Big guvment is at least their accomplice.

Fifth, those pesky eco-types are apocalyptic at the very thought of new drilling. Therefore legislation has been passed that makes it almost impossible. Now we're paying, literaly, for it. The danged supply and demand thing again.

ck_IN
 

Think you nailed it. Also, some memories are short...first warning signs came this time last year when prices shot up...Executive Order releasing some strategic reserves provided <B>short</B> term fix, but <B>NOTHING</B> done for long term.
Govt must address ASAP. Lots of proposal out there (ANWR, nuclear, etc.), but everyone has pet rocks they don't want touched.
Definitely a leadership challenge for the current administration.

ck_in
Where do you get the notion that refineries are banned!

Heck any burg in Kansas would let them build all they want, they need jobs. The Freedom Farm Act killed them, guess who did that one.

Part of the current crisis is that the oil companies were given the green light. Part is a growing shortage of infrastructure, but there is no law, anywhere except in parks, malls, and residencial areas against building it!

I live in California. We have a refinery fire prior to every summer vacation season. Helps to drive up prices. Just check the last three years. One or two every spring like clockwork.

BP/Amoco has been violating federal law by shipping Alaskan crude overseas to the Asian markets instead of for domestic use. Though the terms of the legislation for the drilling of Alaskan oil were spelled out, BP seems to have no problem violating it.

There is no oil shortage per se. California gov't officials mandated additional additives to "help" pollution control efforts, further driving up the price of gas.

The price for a barrel of oil from the Mideast has NOT changed significantly from a year ago. It is still around $30/barrel.

Please, don't make excuses for those who extort and manipulate their monopolies...

Clark Howard said on the radio day before yesterday that crude is currently going for $25/drum. He's a pretty reliable source.

LapDog
just repeating what I heard.

Crude oil is publically traded all day and all night. The rise last year was crude oil motivated but this rise is the oil companies saying refined product demand is too great for capacity, which they control. Since this seems to be a US problem and not world wide, it may quit if tankers start showing up with refined gas. Both Mexico and Canada could build refineries and under our trade agreement we could buy this gas.

Clint in Whichita:
"Why, oh why did McVeigh target the govt.? Why not oil company execs?"

Didn't the Marxist/Socialist extreme left wing have the Unabomber targetting oil, timber, and mining company executives? Yes. Doesn't the Marxist/Socialist extreme left wing have eco-terrorist organizations at work right now targetting honest, decent hardworking Americans who work in resource based industries? Yes.
If people want to live in a Marxist/Socialist country with a Marxist/Socialist government that owns everybody and everything, you can expect everything to cost more or be unavailable at an affordable price. You know, the toilet paper lines in the U.S.S.R. When people realize that virtually every problem we face is caused by large central governments taking total control of virtually everything except the Marxist/Socialist press (and screwing up virtually everything they touch just like the U.S.S.R.) and taking away individual human beings right to own property, including the fruits of their own labor, then we might be able to start solving some of the world's problems. We're better off going the way of the Soviet Union and divide into 50 seperate countries than try and make a Marxist/Socialist government work when none has ever worked before. And then we wouldn't have to subsidize all those Marxist/Socialist government bureaucrats.

RCGChief
LOL......you put the money there for me to do the buying of stocks and I will BUY..:D
As for me? I think that between the gas, electric, water and not to mention that my taxes just went up on my house 19 percent, then I might<<<(doubtful) think like you. Whatever...:rolleyes:

If the gas price increase was caused by a lack of supply, as oil companies are claiming, they wouldn't be recording Earth-shattering profits.

We should thank the oil companies. We will all be in better shape when we have to ride bikes. Ü

If the board of directors and top management of any publicly held corporation do not maximize the profits for the shareholders, they can be sued by the shareholders for not doing their job. Which is to maximize the profit investors get when they buy shares in a publicly held company. How much money does it cost the board of directors and top management if they get sued for not maximizing the return on investment for shareholders? And who pays the tab? Is it legal for the board of directors and top management of any publicly held corporation to ignore profit opportunities? If the politicians and bureaucrats are going to create all these profit opportunities with their ignorance, arrogance, corruption, and greed and lust for power, you can't blame the boards and management for doing their jobs to exploit the profit opportunities created by the ignorance, arrogance, corruption, and greed and lust for power of politicians and bureaucrats.

The CEO of Conoco oil company was on CNBC early this am. Announced the fifth straight quarter of record profits. The immediate question was put to him, hey are you going to build a new refinery? Much back and forth, resulting in the following info.
If they can maintain present profits margins, ie current gas prices vs crude they will use profits to drill for more oil. A refinery, if built would be overseas where it is cheaper. They asked if this was due to eco rules and he said no. Cheaper and less read tape, most places have the same environmental restrictions.
He also said, that he thinks this is in conformity with the energy plan to be put forth by Cheney. The CNBC people were a little speechless, and never did ask him if high prices might reduce the need for new drilling after we all go broke.