Gehrig was great. ARod was great. As to who was the better player, it's really tough to say due to the vast difference of eras. I could make arguments for either of them quite easily.

It's not semantics. You were the one trying to play games, as that idiotic

post of yours demonstrated with abundant clarity. I just answered your question honestly. You, on the other hand, are being a dishonest prick. :thumb:

It is. It's hilarious that you would even bother trying to hide/deny your biases like that when they are so obvious.


Right on! Carry on being a Boston homer, then. Bird will clearly never be topped. LMAO

It was silly enough that you compared ARod's postseason play to Jeter's. Here you have a player in Gehrig that did it all in the playoffs from hitting an insane average, to winning 6 world series, to also hitting home runs. This is an unbelievably easy comparison. ARod was far WORSE in the playoffs than the regular season. Lou Gehrig was far BETTER in the playoffs than the regular season.

If you actually believe you can make an argument for ARod over Gehrig, then you seem to put absolutely no stock in a player's ability to deliver in the clutch.

No, you did that. I couldn't give two shits about ARod or Jeter. I just exposed it for the nonsensical narrative it was.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/a-fri...d-and-october/

Yeah, if you believe that showing up 1 year and mostly sucking the other 8 or 9 playoff appearances is acceptable. You're comparing a guy who played well in the playoffs 20% of the time to one who played well 80% of the time. And that's mostly not even exaggeration.

More from that article (from someone who knows far more about baseball than either of us):

It's fun exposing bogus narratives with facts. You should try it sometimes instead of buying into them blindly.

1) You didn't address why it is acceptable to play one outstanding playoff, then be absolutely terrible the other 8 or 9
2) Buying into things blindly? Like relying on a "clutch statistic" that is completely unreliable with limited # of playoff at bats? In case you were wondering, you need 7,600 at bats to normalize the score (http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/inde...ll_does_exist/)

For all intents and purposes, ARod has been in the playoffs in 10 different years. He's had a playoff OPS above .800 in 5 of those 10 years (1997, 2000, 2004, 2007, and 2009), with three of the poorest years coming between 2010-2012 when he was already firmly passed his prime.

If that's the truth (and you believe it), then why do would you ever continue to stress ARod's limited playoff sample size (which only amounts to 274 AB in his career) as if it is some kind of true indication of clutchness and a reason why his career should be seen as inferior to others? If it takes that many ABs (as the research suggests), then how would it have any meaning in that regard at all?

Indeed, it seems you're losing track. That article you cited from Tom Tango is contrary to everything you've been trying to argue since this all began. LMAO

KC Connection is going to defend Lebron no matter what.

He has made it his mission.

It's a dirty job, but somebody has to fight off the LeBron haters and trolls like yourself with actual logic, no?

Every time I responded with stats or a legit point you brushed it off as a "troll comment."

No logic whatsoever

Not that you ever made any, but I'm thinking that might have something to do with the fact that you only started posting in this 2 month old thread two days ago to troll LeBron. Your intention here was never to talk basketball beyond bashing him repeatedly and senselessly. And by your own admission, you didn't even watch the games before doing so. You are exactly what you appear to be.

You're probably right about his intent, but Ive been here since day 1 and most of what he is saying about LeBron is correct. :shrug:

Holy ****, I knew you were stupid but wow.

You've got the Spurs, Durant, LeBron, Melo, and several other players all playing top quality ball.

Back in my day, teh basketball was teh best/old ass dumbass.

They clearly have a love child. Gotta' stick up for your baby daddy...

The difference in the way they played/were allowed to play defense then vs.now is a significant factor imho...

The Spurs are like looking into the past. They play a beautiful brand of basketball that nobody else plays these days, but it is how teams used to play 20-30 years ago before the age of isolating one on one street ball took over.

You're letting nostalgia blind you. Sure, they hard-fouled more in the '80s and '90s, but as a result of the illegal defense rules finally being eliminated, defensive schemes are smarter and more creative now than they've ever been. And before anyone brings up handchecking, note that players still actually do it now, they just have to be subtle about it to avoid getting whistled.

You are the dumbass who said Pippen never made an all-star game without Jordan.

GoChargers covered it well.

I took issue with his characterization that the overall talent level was better then. The NBA has opened up to more foreign players and with its increased popularity, we've seen the base level talent in the NBA increase.

That's on the coaches. Good coaches install an offense and stick with it.

My intention was to settle the ridiculous debate between Jordan and Lebron.

Melo playing quality ball lol

5 seasons without Jordan and he went to 1 all star game.

Wow, such an incredible player. The people who say Scottie Pippen is underrated need their heads examined.

Jordan never had the luxury of playing with 2 players that were Dwayne Wade/Chris Bosh caliber.

he is. if he went and played with a center like Noah on the Bulls they would instantly be the #1 contender in the East.

To add ---

Duncan, Dirk, Kobe, Garnett, Durant, Westbrook, Dwight, Rose, Curry, Paul, Griffin, Pierce, Rondo, etc., etc. Several in this list are or will be in the top 30 players all time when their careers end. Duncan, Dirk, Kobe are all top 10 - 20 players all time already.

And if anyone thinks that defenses from any era could deal with a 6'9, 270 athletic freak with handles, a decent shot, great vision and overall basketball insight then they're out of touch. And that's on the offensive end. If a defensive player was allowed to be more physical.....can you imagine trying to score with LeBron defending you?

They wouldnt even win a playoff series

Wow, the sphincter has not stopped burning, has it? Just because a relief pitcher doesn't come into the game until the 8th ot 9th inning doesn't mean they dont know baseball. As for hating on LaNBA, well that's on LaNBA, he brought it on himself. Just because YOU dont agree doesnt make it any less true.

No, but it means that they (just like you) have a very different purpose in this thread than the people that have been here since the very beginning actually talking basketball instead of just trolling LeBron.

Variety is the spice of life, and blog treads too..

There were some phenomenal defenders in that era. Malone, Pippen, Rodman... lots of guys who could have made a great matchup against LeBron.

Yes, the handcheck rules are important. LeBron is a sure-handed ballhandler so it wouldn't lead to as many turnovers, but I can tell you a few things. If LeBron charged the lane, there would be bodies and enforcers sending him a message in ways you can't today. Handchecking would make it really hard to finish at the basket, which means LeBron would have to rely a lot moreso on his jumpshot. And LeBron would be facing teams like the Spurs that hustle and pass the ball almost every night.

It's why I can't stand it when people assume that LeBron would dominate a different era. Nobody knows. He's a hell of a player and would do well in any era. But ridiculous to suggest that he's had a much easier time.

Since KCC loves stats so much. Pts. in the finals:

MJ: 35 games
30+ 23 35+ 13 40+ 6
20 and under 0 Times

Kobe: 37 Games
30+ 13 35+ 2 40+ 1
20 and under 8 Times

Lebron: 27 Games
30+ 7 35+ 2 40+ 0
20 and under 8 Times

It's almost like LeBron doesn't shoot the ball as much as MJ or Kobe did and plays a completely different style of basketball than them.

But yes, impressive. Posting point totals without any context, without any indication of efficiency, and without any of their other numbers accumulated during those games. We're really looking at the height of basketball analytics here.

Seeing as MJ and Kobe are better shooters and relied less on getting to the basket/the free throw line than Lebron that just makes it more impressive to me.

And if that's the way you wanna go it just further adds to my argument that Lebron has been passive in most of his finals games and doesn't get aggressive when he needs to. If his team is so bad, why is he continuing to rely on his teammates? Why can't he take over the game for 4 quarters like those guys did?

You really bumped this thread again to troll and make ridiculous baseless statements (such as LeBron being a worse shooter than MJ and Kobe despite having the best career FG% and 3PT% among them, or MJ/Kobe relying less on FTs even though the three of them all averaged between 7.6 to 8.6 FTAs a game). And you did it all so we can rehash exactly the same things you were bullshitting about with absolutely no knowledge a few days ago?

Just so, so dumb. It might just be time to let the LeBron hate go.

Interesting debate. However, I'm not sure Kobe belongs in the same sentence with Jordan or LBJ.

You really think Lebron is a better shooter than MJ and Kobe? I'll admit he's gotten better but there was a reason Pop had his guys daring Lebron to shoot in last years finals. Once again I don't care about the stats, that's you. His FG% (which isn't better more like the same) is what is is because of layups and him not being as aggressive as the other two, something you continue to duck.

Bullshit Kobe won two championships with Gasol as the second best player. He's more worthy than Lebron.

He doesn't, but that's to be expected considering the poster we're dealing with. Kobe isn't anywhere close to the caliber of either one as a basketball player.

That's because LeBron forcing lower percentage, contested shots (as you apparently want him to do to fit your image of what a "star" should be) leads to a less efficient offense on the whole and a better chance for his opponent.

http://www.landofbasketball.com/play...ael_jordan.htm

I found this and its a good comparison of stats from regular season and playoffs

Looking at this MJ has a fairly significant difference in PPG and FT%.

MJ took more shots while keeping his FG% slightly better.

FT% is a good indicator of natural shooting ability. As said by many coaches if you can shoot free throws you can learn to shoot anywhere.

You can spin it any way you want, but nobody gave that kind of space to Kobe or MJ bc they knew they would make them pay for it.

:thumb:ROFL:thumb:ROFL:thumb:ROFL:thumb:ROFL:thumb:ROFL:thumb:ROFL:thumb:ROFL

Jigsaw?