I don't know. I don't think he would call him a woman beater if it was storyline.

Conspiracy theory would be that Punk's lowest demo has always been women, so WWE could be angling to try and help him there. Hence the woman beater comment. Brown would not have to be involved at all in that case.

(they'll ignore punk's idolization of savage and austin...)

Yea, that was kinda my hunch as it were. Still interested to see if this goes any further.

I'm five minutes into Raw. Well, ten, sort of, but I skipped through a bunch.

I quit.

As in, I literally feel sick to my stomach ten minutes after watching that and have zero desire to watch any more wrestling. Thanks, Vince.

ultra keep watching it's get better

plus smackdown was good too.

Just start watching Raw at the hour mark. HHH/Taker is worth it.

It was perhaps the most embarrassed and sickened I've ever felt as a wrestling fan.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3ik6VvbXND8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Holy shit, this is all sorts of awesome. HBK phone interview about Raw monday and Taker/HHH at WM.

http://www.wwe.com/shows/wrestlemani...r-than-tripleh

gay

So it looks like they're hinting another Punk-Bryan match on Raw tonight (so sayeth wwe.com). I love watching those 2 wrestle just as much as the next guy, but do we really need to do it 3 times in a month (and twice in 6 days)? Save some for Wrestlemania 29 (or 30. whatever).

On the plus side, Rocky's on Raw tonight. Excited to see him bitch slap Cena (literally or verbally, either one works).

So, uhhh... Anyone else watch that?

Punk-Jericho should be incredible for the next month.

And if Rocky hadn't had his notes on his wrist, it wouldn't have been a contest as to who "won" that segment....

That was an awful showing by the Rock. Just pointless drivel and catch phrases. Cena last week called him out and he had literally no comeback. When Cena came out tonight to challenge the Rock, he again outworked him on the mike. Only at the end after Cena punked him did the Rock become decent. Sadly his time away is starting to show. He used to be one of the best on the mike. Sad, sad performance. Punk-Jericho will be epic.

Yep. Cena has owned the Rock in the smack talk department.

Ironically the bleacher report did an article about the Rock's return and they all but nailed how it would go. So sad that he is that predictable.

Rock was flustered after Cena left. I like the Rock as much as the next guy but Cena has been demolishing him verbally.

Just re-watched it, you guys are right. Rocky needs to get back into his own on the mic, cause he has the ability to bury Cena.

But honestly, my interest in that match dropped considerably after re-watching that segment. Rock had the crowd going with catchphrases & whatnot, then Cena came out & did his thing. I feel like there's no real reason for this match other than 1) they don't like each other and 2) a lot of people want to see it. Makes sense from a business standpoint, just not really a storyline perspective.

You ****ing marks. Rock has always been solid as **** on the mic. Even when he came back at first. This is all a work. And apparently it's working.

Hope you're right. I can't imagine being an actor would kill your promo skills (especially considering he didn't have any problems around Survivor Series), but he was bad tonight.

And none of this changes the fact that there's still no real story to this match other than the hype of Cena vs. Rock. Be nice if there was something more to it, but that might just be me.

SEGMENT ONE: Who is the Best in the World?

Hmm... a popular veteran returns after leaving the company to focus on other media to trash a current champion/main eventer while the champion/main eventer insults the returning vet for leaving in the first place. Where have I seen that story before? Except, already, this story is more engaging than John Cena/Rock, because Jericho can actually play the heel, while the Rock (who should be the heel in his story as well) can't bring himself to actually get people to hate him (or just isn't good enough to). As well, when Punk decries Jericho for his activities outside of wrestling, it comes off as more believable given that he hasn't starred in movies, done tons of media appearances, and been in commercials like Cena. It's weird that the WWE is basically telling the same story twice in the build-up to WrestleMania, and the better one is the one they're not hyping up.

Rating: 8.5 out of 10

SEGMENT EIGHT: "Kung Pao Bitch?" Really?

For a guy who we all praise as being great on the mic, the Rock sure as hell blathers on and on and on. This was a boring, meandering segment until Cena came out. About two minutes of content stretched out involving the Rock proving that, yeah, people love him enough to chant damn near anything, including something as senseless and dumb as 'Kung Pao Bitch.' What the hell does that even mean? Cena's promo, on the other hand, was concise and to the point and actually got me interested -- the Rock, too, it seems, because his response was leagues ahead of the dull crap he was serving before Cena came out. It's the same story as Jericho/Punk, except the Rock is trying to pander to the crowd and the crowd is letting him. I'm always amused when I see different reactions for the same actions depending solely on who's doing it... well, we love the Rock and we don't like Cena, so I guess that's all that matters, right? Still... this was a segment where the Rock couldn't hold my interest and Cena brought me back, so there's that.

Rating: 6.5 out of 10

Should be obvious that it's by design.

I agree, but you have to be a major Rock homer to think tonight was a good night for him. This is why I was disappointed because no one used to be able to own the Rock on the mike as he was easily one of the best. Tonight he bad, no way to sugarcoat that. He was only decent tonight after Cena came out and he was forced to be truly on the defensive.

I think rocky needed the note cause i think they didn't have much time to prepare since was there late.

Yep. It's completely a work. They are trying so very hard to get a 50-50 crowd reaction in Miami (which is ridiculous - Cena's going to get booed out of the building, because a) it's in Miami, and b) it's a more hardcore audience, and hardcores hate cena).

And I thought the Rock owned him yet again last night. It's so transparent which one is a worker and which one reads scripts. The wrist thing is so 180 degrees from reality. But the marks get worked. So good job on that count.

The miz's career in a nutshell.

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Love the chop at the end :thumb:

The rock's character, catch phrases, and up until about 1999 his promos word for word, were created by someone else.

This idea of the Rock as some improv mic genius is pure fiction.

This promo was just like his others... a yammering stringing together of a bunch of catchphrases... because stupid people like catchy phrases. That's why nickleback sells records.

You ask me, they both suck.

Link?


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I am not buying it is a work. Rock just got owned.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. For me, Cena doesn't even belong in the same building with the guy, and it's more obvious every time they're on the mic together.

It's comical that there is even a discussion in regards to who works the crowd more when they are on the mic.

Rock's worst day on the mic > Cena's best day on the mic

Last nights performance says otherwise. That is unless you are a fan of catchphrases and "food" names.

The Rock was Goddamned atrocious last night. Work or not, he was even worse than the last time he showed up (when he and Cena traded idiotic phrases). Cena was actually compelling last night, for once. All Cena did was come out and basically say "you're washed up and I'm gonna' destroy you an 'Mania. *drops the mic*"

Meanwhile, courtesy of Brandon Stroud, here's a transcript of The Rock after Cena came out and pwned him:

“LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING RIGHT NOW JOHN YOU’RE BACK THERE LISTENING RIGHT … LET ME TELL YOU THIS. JOHN. ROCK AND DWAYNE JOHNSON, DWAYNE JOHNSON AND THE ROCK, THAT IS THE SAME MAN. THAT’S THE SAME MAN JOHN, THAT’S THE, THAT’S THE SAME MAN. JOHN. AND LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING. LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING JOHN. JOHN, LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING. JOHN. JOHN. JOHN. JOHN. JOHN.
JOHN. JOHN. LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING.


THE ROCK DWAYNE JOHNSON DWAYNE JOHNSON THE ROCK THE PEOPLE’S CHAMP WWE WRESTLING WRESTLEMANIA JOHN, JOHN CENA, KICK YOUR ASS, IF YOU SMELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL WHAT THE ROCK IS COOKING."

I keep listening to Rocky's promo from Monday and there's just something off. It has nothing to do with Rock vs. Cena, but he just doesn't sound the same way he used to. It's like he's Dwayne Johnson trying to play The Rock instead of just being The Rock...

For your consideration...
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YP8b1-4NKUg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

vs.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-SH7bnElWyY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Clear difference to me. Used to refer to himself in the 3rd person, doesn't do it anymore (and I don't remember him doing it last year when he came back, either). His comedy doesn't seem nearly as funny & seems more generic, too (although that could be the fact that I'm not watching him as a kid like I used to).... Whatever, I'm more psyched for Punk-Jericho than this either way.

I miss his hair.

Like, a bunch.

Oh god, this is an incredible flowchart of the Nexus angle, especially the individual career recaps. Helps fill in a lot of blanks I had from not watching for most of 09-11.

http://i.imgur.com/Y8dqd.png
http://i.imgur.com/Iw7Ez.png
http://i.imgur.com/xKU4o.png

:spock:

ROFL Rocky's first taped promo ROFL

LOL @MIZ.

What an after-thought...

I was thinking the same thing. I figured Big Show would win, but the Miz lasted a whole minute.

That was the Rock of old, not that sad example that we saw last week. Both promos were good and signature Rock.

Once again Cena owns the Rock

Eh, Cena was just babbling after looking completely nervous (not to mention no-selling everything) when The Rock was in the ring with him. Wasn't horribly impressed with either one of them TBH.

I don't understand how that closed Raw when Punk and/or Jericho couldn't get even a bit of mic time...

This is what I find the most disappointing. While Punk/Jericho and Bryan/Sheamus should be the main events and getting more air time they are not and it is sad. This should be an event to propel lesser names up, but instead it looks like they want to keep the relics (HHH, Jericho, Rock, Undertaker) relevant. I did not mind Rock and Cena in the ring tonight, but I guess everyone has their own opinion tonight. The Rock's promos were good with the first one being the best by far.

Agreed. I don't mind HHH-Taker getting so much time and same with Rock-Cena, but Punk-Jericho and Sheamus-Bryan outta get at least some promo time (and I know this is random, but what in the actual hell are they doing with Eve & Ryder?). I mean, has Sheamus ever said why exactly he picked DB? Could have made for a good segment and I know Jericho & Punk could have delivered another five-star segment if given the chance.

As for Cena-Rock, I loved Rock's taped promos. And his in-ring promo was considerably better than last week, and he even referred to himself in the 3rd person a few times (I mark for that, in case you can't tell), but Cena smiling like a bitch & trying to interrupt him half the time just pissed on the whole segment for me. Combined with last week, my interest in seeing those 2 wrestle has gone down significantly.

Then again, I'd rather watch Punk vs. Rock than Cena, so there's that....

You are the worst. Cena owns and The Rock was ****ing awful once again.

Owns = no sells?

The no-selling of Rock's face-to-face stuff actually deepens the character dynamic. It indicates that Cena is unconvinced by what The Rock is saying, which reinforces the idea that Cena is trying to draw attention to that The Rock is out of touch and rusty.

I really question whether this is a work. Even if it is it isn't working. It doesn't make me like Cena, it makes me wonder what the Rock is doing and I am losing interest in the match. If it is a work they need to fix it. If it isn't Rock needs to stop trying to defend and sugar-coat something that can't be defended or sugar-coated. Start talking about how hard it was to be the best in his day and how easy it is for Cena now.

The story line of HBK helping HHH only to at last minute feel guilty and Superkick HHH during the match actually seems semi possible now.

There are, as mentioned, other matches that could be great that they are not doing a good job with.

LOL.....DING DING DING DING WAKE UP TIME TO GET YOUR ASS WHIPPED!!!

I thought it was another solid program last night. I hope to christ they stick with the serious promos after wrestlemania is over. Punk and Jericho fighting over who's the best, HBK putting himself in the middle of HHH and taker, Cena without the shitty comedy against the Rock, both of them being (mostly) serious makes the WWE seem so much better.

Speaking of Punk and Jericho, should they open the show? The reason I ask is that if there's a match that deserves as much time as they can get from an in-ring standpoint it's that one. If they're the curtain-jerker, there's no worry about losing time to another bigger match running long. So is it better to have them get a full 25-minutes at the beginning, or to have them in a more main-eventy spot, but risk them losing time to something like HHH-Undertaker running late?

So much for serious, eh? At least as it pertains to Rock/Cena... I wish they'd introduce more meat to the feud, but I guess the one-liners about genitalia will have to suffice.



And I wouldn't hate seeing Punk-Jericho open the show, but I feel like people will have forgotten about it by the end of the night. Let Sheamus destroying DB open so we can get that shitstorm out of the way ASAP.... (I'm sure they won't open WM with the WHC 2 years in a row, though.)

Anyone have any thoughts on Jericho's promo after Punk's match? I thought it was a bid weird, but some of Punk's best work (IMO, see video below) came from his feuds with Raven over Punk's dad being a drunk. I can see it either going a bit flat or being a great move.

I'm sure most have, but for those who haven't seen it.... I don't know if we'll see this (for one thing, I don't think Jericho's a drunk like Raven was portrayed as) on WWE PG, but I never get sick of it (except the weird camera angles and Spanish subtitles):

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QcyEcKZ0Qcg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Tonight was apparently 'give some back to the rock' night after giving Cena all the push they could for the last couple of week. Cena jerking the curtain like that and then only getting a couple of minutes. Which was fine with me, I like his rapper persona even less than I like his hogan persona. I expected the rock stuff to be horrendous but thought it really wasn't. If nothing else, the man can play a crowd.

I think they are targetting the adults pretty obviously, which is sort of a different angle on the serious thing I was referring. Most of both their acts tonight, especially Cena getting bleeped, while juvenile, is most definitely not playing to the 6-year old cena fans in the audience (although they'll love it - 'oh wow, he cussed!'). Which means they're not just trying to sell this to the kids, and they are going a little edgier to I assume try to get back some of the lost 90s audience. We'll see if it works.

I sort of zoned out on the Punk/Miz/Jericho stuff, but the rumor was out earlier today that Miz would interfere with that match at Mania. Not sure how I feel about that.

pfahaahaha

Toatally marked out for basic thuganomics.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

They're marketing to teenagers. Sure, there's nostalgia for the attitude era that's aimed at adults. But what was the demographic that most loved the attitude era's sophomoric hijinx? Boys aged 16-22 or thereabouts.

I thought Rock's performance last night was horrendous TV. Another heaping helping of misogyny dumped on top of telegraphed, immature punchlines and catchphrase sprees. I'm an adult, and I don't think The Rock's performances of late are for me. They're for... people younger than me.

The end of the rock's segment was bad. Like really bad. I liked the rest fine. It's what the rock's always done. Which I get puts me in the nostalgia demographic. Although in the interest of full disclosure I was playing Mass Effect 3 throughout Raw, so it wasn't like I was glued to the tube.

Jericho section I missed:

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The rock's bit:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SBHlP8F4j1Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The we will rock you, part was awful. Cena already had some fun with that on twitter.


the guitar segment was ok....some really funny parts IMO. "Cena's mom can barely walk" LOL

Good God wtf was that? I havent watched wrestling in a good while

This show really kinda sucks. Even Punk-Jericho wasn't that great. Not expecting much from the HBK/HHH/Taker segment, either.

And Orton needs to never touch a microphone ever again.

It was an okay show but there's way too much emphasis on the Teddy Long/John Laurinaitis garbage. You know it's a bad sign for the quality of the roster when they're making Santino a focus of the program.

And to think we once liked Orton.

This. Santino is a good personality, but he is a garbage wrestler who has like 4 moves before he breaks out that ridiculous cobra.

LMAO

Hrm.

DAMMIT, I saw a video of that a few hours ago, but can't find it. It was a guy just following Douglas around, yelling "E-C-DoubleYou!" I had no idea what was going on...

... holy SHIT, that opening segment was great. I honestly wasn't that thrilled with the build to Punk/Jericho so far but I'm ridiculously interested in it now. I love that they took a standard Heel Punk promo and turned it into an incredible face promo. Both of them finally seem to be living up to their best.

Note: I've seen 10 minutes of Raw so far and haven't spoiled myself so there's every chance they could ruin it in the next 70 minutes.

Oh hey, guess they're actually going to to take the IC title off of Cody at Mania and <strike>elevate him to the main event</strike> forget to give him anything to do for the next year.

Ugh, yeah.

Just retire now and save whatever's left of your brain, Randy. Jesus Christ.

YOU'RE LYING I HATE YOU

lolllll this ****ing Taker-HHH-HBK promo/angle. They all just sound so old and out of it.

AHAHAHAH THAT WAS THE OVERRUN

AHAHHA

You know, 6 months ago this looked like a great mania. They've just sucked all the life out of it.

It took me like a month and a half of seeing this on the list of threads to realize this was about wrestling. I thought it meant Kyle Orton or something dumb- Well now kind of glad I have caught up and enjoyed reading through some of this.

Anything worth-while happen on RAW tonight?

Christian is off team Johnny. Mcintyre took his spit and Miz is the last man on team Johnny. Booked T is the last man for Long

O.o

Man o man it's been a long time since I've watched a show. Maybe I can get back into it.

This 12 man tag match has some awful stars in it. I mean Santino is a captain. Really? That guy is beyond awful and Booker T is well past his prime. This smells of a desperate attempt to get as many people into Wrestlemania as possible. I am ready for Rock/Cena to be over, and Taker/HHH. RKO/Kane looks like a filler to get them both WM time as well. There is no build up to this match at all, it is just there. The more I see the line up, the more underwhelmed I become.

I was literally more excited for mania 12 months ago than I am now. I don't think I'm buying it. They've nearly killed the Rock with the audience, Cena comes off exactly the same as he always has. Nothing has changed except that I care less about it the more they're on TV. So in the end the long build hasn't done anything but hurt the match, which is sign number 83471 that the company just completely sucks at basically everything now. The only hope is that the show is a million times better than the build to it, and I just don't have that kind of blind faith.